Layer Method on Balloon Tales site

eltonpruitt · 06-21-2006, 05:43 PM

Do any of you guys use the layer method they talk about on Balloon Tales at this link:

Lettering: the Layer Method

Thanks for any insight you can offer on whether this is or is not a good method to use!

Elton

Jason Arthur · 06-21-2006, 07:05 PM

No, I find it too time consuming. With Illustrator 10 and above you can do pretty much anything you want without having it be so complicated. I think that the Layer Method is kind of a look at how some people do it (or used to do it), but I see no real need to do it that way myself.

cheers,

-- J

eltonpruitt · 06-21-2006, 10:05 PM

If you have already merged the balloon and tail and then find you need to expand the balloon or tweak the tail, can you un-merge them or do you have to just start over on that one?

thanks,
Elton

Jason Arthur · 06-21-2006, 11:36 PM

Yeah, you can just use the direct selection tool (press the letter A on your keyboard to automatically activate the tool). Just click inside the balloon (or the tail) and use can adjust it in a number of different ways without having to un-merge items.

cheers,

-- J

Clem Robins · 06-22-2006, 08:34 AM

i have done it both ways. Marvel didn't upgrade past Illusrator 9 until this past January, and as a result, all lettering for them had to be done in this layered fashion.

once you get used to it, it is as fast or faster than doing balloons and pointers on just one layer.

my problem with it is more stylistic than pragmatic. the technique makes it difficult to play with a balloon's line weight, or to permit a partial outline to overlap a connecting balloon.

both DC and (by way of Virtual Calligraphy) Marvel use the technique extensively. i sat with Kenny Lopez at DC and watched him demonstrate how he uses it. when you know what you're doing, you can work with absolutely blinding speed – if you don't mind the limitations the technique imposes on you.

MikeStorniolo · 06-22-2006, 09:58 AM

I use A layer method, just not as detailed as ComiCraft's is. Mine goes...

SFX/Titles
Text
Balloons
Artwork

I usually lock my artwork layer, and this way I can goof around with everything right over the artwork and switch back and forth... gets the job done for me.

Clem Robins · 06-22-2006, 10:54 AM

the "layer method" actually means doing your balloons on two layers, so what you're describing is not the layer method.

actually, the Comicraft tutorial is not the method DC uses. instead of using a double-thick stroke for the bottom layer of balloons, DC uses an offset path. they also put their pointers (which are all pre-made, by the way) on two separate layers, as well.

they do some nice work there, particularly Rob Leigh, but the method's not my cup of tea.

doing the balloons on just one layer makes them easier to manipulate, and i like to drag nodes around to funk up the balloon shapes a little bit.

**Kep!** · 06-22-2006, 12:23 PM

I'm with Clem here. I've tried the layer method and found it limitted the look I like way too much. Also, masking, evelope distortions and other "tricks" usually are only appliable to a single a layer...so, if you're like me and like to bust panel boarders and use SFX within the ballons and have the balloons be on fire, it just doesn't play. But, for MOST work, it's fine...if you can get a great handle on it. For me, I'll stick to my merges.

**Kel Nuttall** · 06-22-2006, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kep!

For me, I'll stick to my merges.

Me too!

Amadarwin · 06-22-2006, 04:56 PM

I like to merge.

All...night...long...

**cyxodus** · 06-26-2006, 07:13 PM

I use merge 99% of the time but use the layer method on special cases.

**cyxodus** · 06-26-2006, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amadarwin

I like to merge.

All...night...long...

Get a girlfriend.

Amadarwin · 06-27-2006, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyxodus

Get a girlfriend.

she hates it when I merge.

F!NCH · 06-27-2006, 11:24 AM

Yeah, because you can't remove your tail from her balloon.

Amadarwin · 06-27-2006, 12:16 PM

I just assumed it was the varied stroke...

06-21-2006, 05:43 PM	#1
eltonpruitt Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 259	Layer Method on Balloon Tales site Do any of you guys use the layer method they talk about on Balloon Tales at this link: Lettering: the Layer Method Thanks for any insight you can offer on whether this is or is not a good method to use! Elton

06-22-2006, 08:34 AM	#5
Clem Robins Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 916	layered balloons pro and con i have done it both ways. Marvel didn't upgrade past Illusrator 9 until this past January, and as a result, all lettering for them had to be done in this layered fashion. once you get used to it, it is as fast or faster than doing balloons and pointers on just one layer. my problem with it is more stylistic than pragmatic. the technique makes it difficult to play with a balloon's line weight, or to permit a partial outline to overlap a connecting balloon. both DC and (by way of Virtual Calligraphy) Marvel use the technique extensively. i sat with Kenny Lopez at DC and watched him demonstrate how he uses it. when you know what you're doing, you can work with absolutely blinding speed – if you don't mind the limitations the technique imposes on you.

06-22-2006, 12:23 PM	#8
Kep! Self-Evident Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: He's EVERYWHERE! He's EVERYWHERE! Posts: 8,771	I'm with Clem here. I've tried the layer method and found it limitted the look I like way too much. Also, masking, evelope distortions and other "tricks" usually are only appliable to a single a layer...so, if you're like me and like to bust panel boarders and use SFX within the ballons and have the balloons be on fire, it just doesn't play. But, for MOST work, it's fine...if you can get a great handle on it. For me, I'll stick to my merges. __________________ AEIOU, *Kep!* Writer, Letterer, Magician & Sophist www.wordybastard.com Why yes, I am on Facebook, thanks for asking

06-26-2006, 07:13 PM	#11
cyxodus NinjaLettering.com Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The nearest arcade or movie theater. Posts: 1,845	I use merge 99% of the time but use the layer method on special cases. __________________ =Payton Aspiring Artist, Letterer and Graphic Designer NINJALETTERING.com \| DeviantArt Portfolio \| Lettering Library

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06-21-2006, 07:05 PM	#2
Jason Arthur Starving Letterer Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 4,501	No, I find it too time consuming. With Illustrator 10 and above you can do pretty much anything you want without having it be so complicated. I think that the Layer Method is kind of a look at how some people do it (or used to do it), but I see no real need to do it that way myself. cheers, -- J

06-21-2006, 10:05 PM	#3
eltonpruitt Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 259	If you have already merged the balloon and tail and then find you need to expand the balloon or tweak the tail, can you un-merge them or do you have to just start over on that one? thanks, Elton

06-21-2006, 11:36 PM	#4
Jason Arthur Starving Letterer Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 4,501	Yeah, you can just use the direct selection tool (press the letter A on your keyboard to automatically activate the tool). Just click inside the balloon (or the tail) and use can adjust it in a number of different ways without having to un-merge items. cheers, -- J

06-22-2006, 09:58 AM	#6
MikeStorniolo Artist/Letterer/Creator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 98	I use A layer method, just not as detailed as ComiCraft's is. Mine goes... SFX/Titles Text Balloons Artwork I usually lock my artwork layer, and this way I can goof around with everything right over the artwork and switch back and forth... gets the job done for me.

06-22-2006, 10:54 AM	#7
Clem Robins Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 916	the "layer method" actually means doing your balloons on two layers, so what you're describing is not the layer method. actually, the Comicraft tutorial is not the method DC uses. instead of using a double-thick stroke for the bottom layer of balloons, DC uses an offset path. they also put their pointers (which are all pre-made, by the way) on two separate layers, as well. they do some nice work there, particularly Rob Leigh, but the method's not my cup of tea. doing the balloons on just one layer makes them easier to manipulate, and i like to drag nodes around to funk up the balloon shapes a little bit.

06-22-2006, 04:56 PM	#10
Amadarwin Fingerpaints Fonts Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 167	I like to merge. All...night...long...

06-27-2006, 11:24 AM	#14
F!NCH Design sense… tingling… Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: UK Posts: 149	Yeah, because you can't remove your tail from her balloon.

06-27-2006, 12:16 PM	#15
Amadarwin Fingerpaints Fonts Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 167	I just assumed it was the varied stroke...