Comics Experience

[Steven Forbes]

Girls make comics?

I thought women did!




-Steven

[DJ Keawekane]

Originally Posted by Scribbly

Well, if you want work continuity and well paid jobs, you must pay for your instruction first.
Going to college or expending lot of money and years taking classes for get a degree on something.
That is how the world works.
And sometimes, that is not even enough.
When studying is not just what we learn, but the contacts we can establish for the future.
Otherwise you’ll be flipping burgers or doing some low key /dead end job for the rest of the life.

We don’t need a degree for making comics, but we need knowledge to make them well.
If somebody has it and we want to have that from them, we must pay. That is what is fair.
And is the right thing to do.

We don’t want to pay, we must do the whole homework by ourselves.
Observation. Study. Practice and self-criticism. Trial and error.

Tell you what, many of these pros teaching there, they probably did learn their techniques by themselves.
Why should they give away for free the knowledge and the experience they so costly achieve?
So after, we can happily apply for the same job in the same few companies they are working now,
and take the job from them hands?

Suppose that tomorrow you need to teach how to draw or how to paint to someone else.
Are you going to teach and give away all your time and knowledge for free?
That would make starve to anyone. Artist or not.

Scribbly- I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying if the 'pros' can do it so can I. I mean nobody starts out as a pro they start out like you and me- then they become a pro. If you choose to shell out the money that's your decision and being that this is a message board I felt like chiming in- which I seldom do.

I don't doubt that the things you learn is good to have, maybe might be all the difference in the world in getting you over the hump. There's no way I could justify that to my wife in 'my' situation and speak for myself only.

You don't have to be flipping burgers- I get the analogy- I really do. But you do need to 1- work hard and 2- let the people you know that you do work hard and are able to do the job.

The thing I'm finding now as a freelancer more than ever it's more about personal taste and preference. And that your life often times is in someone else's hands whether waiting for a script to finish, waiting for a response, waiting whether you got the job or someone else did, or waiting for them to pay you.

Steven- sending out that e-mail right after this check your inbox.

[Scribbly]

Originally Posted by DJ Keawekane

Scribbly- I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying if the 'pros' can do it so can I. I mean nobody starts out as a pro they start out like you and me- then they become a pro. If you choose to shell out the money that's your decision and being that this is a message board I felt like chiming in- which I seldom do.

I don't doubt that the things you learn is good to have, maybe might be all the difference in the world in getting you over the hump. There's no way I could justify that to my wife in 'my' situation and speak for myself only.

OK. No a problem.
The only difference is what you call “to shell out the money” is what I call “invest in your future.”
To pay a professional to teach us his techniques is an investment for anyone’s career, not a waste of money.
It can save from years of quizzing and failures.

Btw, to ask for feedback from pros at conventions. What can we expect?
To have a crash course for free on how fix our art mistakes in middle of the convention?
The pro at conventions is a guy trying to sell us a product, HIS artwork.
The most he can do for us is to be kind and encourage us to keep going on our endeavors.
Don’t expect deep criticism, or teaching.
He doesn’t want a fan badmouthing him the next day in a comic’s forum.

They may suggest in a very polite way what areas of our work we can improve, if so.
Where or how, is our job and up to us to find out.
But the ultimate mission of the pros at Conventions is to make us feel happy about ourselves
and our crappy artwork, so we can leave them with a good impression.
So happy, that we can go and buy more magazines with them “pro” artwork on it.

Now, have the same professional in a classroom, and surely he will take all the time for
pointing our mistakes and teach the possible solutions.

In a convention, the only ones who can rip apart our artwork with authority are the Editors.
And they are usually writers.
No that they are going to explain us how to fix our artwork problems.

[Barnaby]

Originally Posted by DJ Keawekane

I'm just saying if the 'pros' can do it so can I. I mean nobody starts out as a pro they start out like you and me- then they become a pro.

I completely understand your view.
I think that if one has the talent, the will and a bit of luck, he will 'eventually' find his way to 'pro', but on the other hand, advices from professionals with lots of experience can indeed be invaluable, if not only for the time it saves you!

My example... in the last 3 years, I evolved a lot in several areas (storytelling, anatomy, composition,...). If I'd meet my '3-years-younger-me' and could pass him that knowledge in 1 or 2 days, I'd save him 3 years of trial and error... Where would I be now??
That's what I want, some 'pro' that could guide me and point out the more subtle mistakes that would take me some time to find out.
I see it as an investment.
Of course I don't know if I can afford it yet (that's another story), but I understand its value.

Unfortunately, I also believe that a lot of this 'breaking in process' is down to dumb luck (meeting the right editor at the right time with the right pages), but if you have at least the right pages, you're already improving your chances.

[Phatman]

Originally Posted by jedipencil

There's not one single girl on teaching staff...

Not to be a jerk, but who cares? Does the sex of the person make their advice any more relevant?

[jedipencil]

No, of course it doesn't. But I care. But I've understood, it is not important.

[DJ Keawekane]

Originally Posted by Barnaby

I completely understand your view.
I think that if one has the talent, the will and a bit of luck, he will 'eventually' find his way to 'pro', but on the other hand, advices from professionals with lots of experience can indeed be invaluable, if not only for the time it saves you!

My example... in the last 3 years, I evolved a lot in several areas (storytelling, anatomy, composition,...). If I'd meet my '3-years-younger-me' and could pass him that knowledge in 1 or 2 days, I'd save him 3 years of trial and error... Where would I be now??
That's what I want, some 'pro' that could guide me and point out the more subtle mistakes that would take me some time to find out.
I see it as an investment.
Of course I don't know if I can afford it yet (that's another story), but I understand its value.

Unfortunately, I also believe that a lot of this 'breaking in process' is down to dumb luck (meeting the right editor at the right time with the right pages), but if you have at least the right pages, you're already improving your chances.

Yeah I think you nailed that one on the head. Dumb luck- especially when you see working 'professionals' (I'm not naming anyone) who have so many things wrong with their craft yet they seem to be getting more work that you are. I know it's a social thing thing too. I see guys getting work that absolutely suck ass- but they're getting work. Not saying they're not doing their job but the quality just isn't there. And as an artist who internalizes everything it makes me think that something is wrong with my craft.

I've had guys I look up to (take my word big names in the industry now) tell me exactly what I wanted to hear- You're good! You're ready! Did you submit this to company A,B, and C because you're there. And then I had guys who I've never heard of say this, that, and this, is wrong and you are not there yet but keep trying- you lack this and that, and then look at the portfolio after mines and say this is great which it wasn't.

I'm not saying that the comics experience is a bad thing it probably is good. Hell if I had 500 bucks to 'invest' I'd do it. For me 'investing' in my future would really fuck with my present.

What I really would like would be a shot- a chance to prove myself.

[Magnus]

It's not really dumb luck. It's who you know. Like in all other entertainment business.

Another thing with Comics Experience apart from the feedback, is the people you get to know.

You can be as good as Buddha, but that doesn't matter if you can't get things in front of the right people. And you get things in front of the right people by knowing the right people.

And since you can never tell who is the right people (at the right time), then your best bet is to get to know as many as possible.

It's late, but as far as my mind can remember, the stuff you've shown here DJ is pretty damn strong. Best of... yeah, contradicting myself a bit; luck! Best of networking!


:M:
www.magnus-aspli.com

[Scribbly]

It's not really dumb luck. Some luck of course, like in everything.
It's not even whom you know.

Actually, is what the artist has in the pages of his portfolio what makes the difference.
That is what moves to some “buddy professional” on recommend such artist, to an editor.
Is what moves famous Editors to give red carpet treatment to some unknown artist that is coming
out of the blue, with no contacts and not speaking a word in English to land a job.

No matter how well connected we are, if the portfolio doesn’t show the basic
levels of professionalism required,
after we put the foot in the door, the next door could be the gentle exit door.

There are no secrets or anything further than that.

[Barnaby]

That's the thing. It's not mathematics... there's no 'formula', there are some rules and even those rules are ignored a lot of times by 'pros'.
One editor can love my work and the guy next to him think it's a complete piece of cr@p... I've had 2 different editors give me 2 completely opposite opinions about the same pages in the same afternoon.

When I say dumb luck, I mean that you can be very good and your pages end up in the hands of those 3 or 4 editors that don't like your work that much and you can't get that first chance, and you can be barely competent, at best, and your pages end up in the hand of that one editor that actually likes your work and you get that first chance (how long you stay in business is a different matter).

Of course, the better you are, the more consensual and positive the feedback on your work will be and the easier will be to find someone willing to give you the first gig.
I believe that the editor that will like my work is already working somewhere in the offices of one of the major publishers... I just need to get my pages to him!

If there's a site that can get me connected to some 'pros' and help me get to that guy and, most importantly, some valuable input on my work, I'm on board!

[DJ Keawekane]

Originally Posted by Barnaby

That's the thing. It's not mathematics... there's no 'formula', there are some rules and even those rules are ignored a lot of times by 'pros'.
One editor can love my work and the guy next to him think it's a complete piece of cr@p... I've had 2 different editors give me 2 completely opposite opinions about the same pages in the same afternoon.

When I say dumb luck, I mean that you can be very good and your pages end up in the hands of those 3 or 4 editors that don't like your work that much and you can't get that first chance, and you can be barely competent, at best, and your pages end up in the hand of that one editor that actually likes your work and you get that first chance (how long you stay in business is a different matter).

Of course, the better you are, the more consensual and positive the feedback on your work will be and the easier will be to find someone willing to give you the first gig.
I believe that the editor that will like my work is already working somewhere in the offices of one of the major publishers... I just need to get my pages to him!

If there's a site that can get me connected to some 'pros' and help me get to that guy and, most importantly, some valuable input on my work, I'm on board!

Yep exactly!