The Talent Engine
 
 

Go Back   Digital Webbing Forums > Talent Engine > Sequential Art Showcase

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-21-2012, 06:33 AM   #1
quahkm
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 487
quahkm will become famous soon enoughquahkm will become famous soon enough

New Project - RAGE

Hi everyone, I'm helping a client with a new project named RAGE. Here are some initial sketch of the main character and some rough page layouts for the first part, consisting of 9 pages. As usual, looking forward to your views and comments.

Best,

Alan Quah


By quahkm
__________________
locate me...

http://quahkm.deviantart.com/
quahkm is offline   Reply With Quote
Connect With Facebook to "Like" This Thread

Old 03-21-2012, 07:02 AM   #2
quahkm
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 487
quahkm will become famous soon enoughquahkm will become famous soon enough

more character studies...


By quahkm


By quahkm


... and some of the rough layouts I have done. Would love to hear your thoughts before I start the finished art. Thanks in advance.


By quahkm



By quahkm


By quahkm


By quahkm


I re-layout page 4, do you think this is better?

By quahkm
__________________
locate me...

http://quahkm.deviantart.com/
quahkm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2012, 07:53 AM   #3
emmanuelxerxjavier
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 153
emmanuelxerxjavier is on a distinguished road

this is awesome!
emmanuelxerxjavier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2012, 08:34 AM   #4
mannie abeleda
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 79
mannie abeleda will become famous soon enough

cool art man, reminds me of the great filipino artist rudy nebres
mannie abeleda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2012, 08:57 AM   #5
dongbenigajr
amateurish newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 122
dongbenigajr is on a distinguished road

Characters are kick ass!!!

I'm loving the greys in your lay outs.
Do you redraw your finished art from your lay outs or you use light box?
dongbenigajr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2012, 09:19 AM   #6
quahkm
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 487
quahkm will become famous soon enoughquahkm will become famous soon enough

Quote:
Originally Posted by dongbenigajr View Post
Characters are kick ass!!!

I'm loving the greys in your lay outs.
Do you redraw your finished art from your lay outs or you use light box?
Thank you, guys. I lightbox the layouts when drawing finished art. Recently, I have been using copic markers on my layouts to give me a sense of lighting directions when approaching final rendering, so yes, it helps with the planning on where to add shadows and hatchings in the final.


A
__________________
locate me...

http://quahkm.deviantart.com/
quahkm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2012, 11:23 PM   #7
L Jamal
ljamal.com
 
L Jamal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Bull City
Posts: 10,746
L Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud ofL Jamal has much to be proud of

Not having borders at the bottom of page one makes it read as if there are 2 altars.

If the 2 figures are important enough to showcase on page 2 why do we lose them in the last panel of page 2?

The height of the altar changes in pages 3 and 4

The first panel of 5 is weak in comparison to page 4

The knife in page 6 should be thrown down to the next panel not up to a previous panel

I like 4 alt better than 4
__________________
L Jámal Walton
LETTERER/ COLORIST/ INKER
LOGO, WEB and GRAPHIC DESIGN

FOR ALL YOUR WEB AND PRINT NEEDS
ON FACEBOOK | PORTFOLIO | UNGOODWISE
L Jamal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2012, 11:37 PM   #8
quahkm
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 487
quahkm will become famous soon enoughquahkm will become famous soon enough

Quote:
Originally Posted by L Jamal View Post
Not having borders at the bottom of page one makes it read as if there are 2 altars.

If the 2 figures are important enough to showcase on page 2 why do we lose them in the last panel of page 2?

The height of the altar changes in pages 3 and 4

The first panel of 5 is weak in comparison to page 4

The knife in page 6 should be thrown down to the next panel not up to a previous panel

I like 4 alt better than 4

These are good observations, Jamal. Noted with thanks!


A
__________________
locate me...

http://quahkm.deviantart.com/
quahkm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 12:16 AM   #9
MattTriano
Cartoonist
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 151
MattTriano will become famous soon enough

I really wish you would reference this stuff. You can draw, you know how to use your pencil, you have an idea of where things go, so why won't you go the extra mile at the onset and do the research? It's lazy! Fakery! This is 2012, we've got MAGIC DEVICES that develop pictures instantly, and you can take as many as you want, of anything! There's the internet, which basically houses the sum total of human knowledge thus far.
The character designs, for starters.
The big guy's right hand is completely fake, I can see you working it out. Thumb and knuckles don't relate to one another properly, the veins over top aren't accurate. His clavicle, the front bulge on his shoulder; it's one thing to have style, take license, it's another to fake it. I don't know what the things on his belt are, they look like horns, but what kind? Did you look at animal horns before drawing them? Lizard horns are different from bull horns are different from dinosaur horns. Look them up, we have the technology that you can do it naked from home eating and playing minecraft AT ONCE. Just as the right hand is nonsense so is the left, fake but passable. His axe--how is the blade affixed to the hilt? What is the hilt made from? I can't tell either way. I want to move his feet back so he doesn't topple but that might not help, it might not be the curve of the figure but instead the subtlety of the gesture--did you pose for this? I suspect not. Did you look in a muscle magazine to see how big guys settle their weight? I know you didn't, but I don't know why.
Old man is ok except...is he sitting or squatting? I don't know. Indicate the chair is seated, that would make sense. The distribution of weight is confusing--what is he doing with his left hand? Where is his left hand, it's in an impossible shadow--looks like 'I can't figure this thumb and wrist out w/o taking or finding ref so fuck it, it's BLACK!' That's not a great idea. Is it resting on his knee or hovering above? Old isn't an emotion--the big guy with the axe is pensive, this guy looks like he's snapping a stubborn shit. Style is important, which is why the hair and the cape shape aren't necessarily up for debate--you can do it how you want as long as it's consistent and has form. The cape shape, though, is a little too fake--fabric doesn't swoop unless held on either side, allowing it to droop in the center. You see the swooping side-cape when someone doesn't know how to draw it hanging dramatically, or blowing accurately. You tell me.
The girl and guy are both standing impossibly. David Finch is shit, BTW, I know his rendering style is alluring but it's also super recognizable and the principle reason he works as much as he does. That may seem like 'oh, well then so can I!' No you can't. he can draw pretty well too, but he invented that degrading metal style, that hatch everything to distract you style--anyone who likes it enough to rip it off (like you have on the girl) gets points taken off immediately. Stop, for your own sake. Like a said, structurally these are a mess, and there's no line density that can save them--why the fuck aren't you posing for these? Did they have to be done in 20 minutes? I doubt it, because the rendering alone would take an hour for just one of them.
I can't say whether the designs are appropriate, haven't read the script--but I can tell you I've seen the brute, the wizard, the warrior princess and the pirate more than once. People fall into tropes, visual cliche, without research--In what period in Earth's history would these characters most closely fit? What part of the world? Don't want to go down that road with the research, ok...what ancient cultures had the coolest shit? In what kind of place is the story set, cold or hot? Island, inland, seafaring? You're launching a SERIES, these are things that can set the work apart from all the other sword & sorcery stories, all the video games and card games that I PROMISE you have been meticulously researched and of course, rendered.
I love research. It's fun. It makes my job easier. It's a fun thing to have all your thinking established before rushing into a page, because it frees up the mechanics and you can concentrate only on the cosmetics without wondering if how your drawing is fixing what you've drawn.
The pages.
Markers make them easy to read, and from your other work I'm not going to assume these are going to change much in final--just get more lines and darks. right?
PG 1 - bullshit rocks, poor establishing shot. you're establishing that you don't know how to draw volcanic rocks, and not the surrounding landscape, the season, or the time of day. where is pnl 2 in pnl 1, which rock? how do the stairs work, where do they start? bullshit. stairs change direction in pnl 2, I get that they're going around the thing but juxtaposed beside pnl 1 makes for an interruption in flow--and the point of 2 should be to establish the room and the placement of objects/people below--too small for print, don't know what I'm seeing. Pnl 3 conveniently reverses the angle of pnl 2, meaning that whatever you've set up in 2 (left, middle and right) is now flipped. But whatever, because I don't know what I'm seeing, who's tied up, or...wait, is the girl and guy at the bottom in panel three or is that pnl 4? I hope it's just poor foreground placement of things in pnl 3 because as pnl 4, it's DEATH. Never. Either way the girl is fake, the way she's tied is fake, and the guy doesn't make sense--we're looking down across her and the slab to an up shot of the guy? How? Is he leaning back? Oh I just noticed the two figures on the stairs, so that means the first three panels are POV shots? Ugh. Talk to your writer about at least putting the two in a revised version of pnl 1, otherwise I'm lost and have to re-evaluate the page by pnl 3.
PG 2 - pnl 3 is awkwardly cropped. You're dramatically taking three panels to get to show their faces and when you do, you cut off the girl's mouth! in pnl 4 the foreground rock is fake and distracting, but I'm more distracted by the immediate break of (as on pg 1) the 180 degree rule. Girl on left, guy on right in pnls 1-3. pnl 4? guy on left, girl on right. Why? pnl 5 is nice, but where did guy and girl go? Don't see the dark robes, which BTW is nice thinking it sets them apart visually. Great! More of that!
PG 3 - like pnl 1 except we've gone through two pages clearly establishing that the altar is taller than the people--now, despite the angle, the alter is obviously at chest level--figure it out. pnls 2-4 are cropped so heavily I don't know who is who. Make use of fg shapes and bg shapes. Mix it up. Ok baldy on pnl 5, nice shot on 6 but what are they doing? Do they feel a rumble from the thing on pg 4? Then show shaking legs, unsteady stances, confused looks--maybe you will, tough to tell here.
PG 4 - pass on it, go with 4a. Now, based on the shadow in 4a (which might be impossible since there's no overhead light, but whatever), the monster is directly behind them right?
PG 5 - Now he's waay behind them, in a corner of the cave we've never seen before. And where are the stairs, shouldn't the monster be blocking them? The two are saving the girl? Too far away, figures too small. Close in on that action because it's the important one, the big monster and whatever the weirdos are doing is far less important. I also can't tell is the girl is on left or the guy, so in the next pnl I can't be sure either--shouldn't have to guess. 3 ok except...isn't the monster important? You may not want to show it, then don't leave in the goons back there, because you'll be tempted to try and indicate the monster in that little tiny shit space and end of pulling focus away from the fg by the indecisive marks back there. These panels should be mostly vertical, to show us what exactly the monster is doing? Does it matter? Why not?
PG 6 - monks pull knives, YOU pull a gun, that's the CHICAGO way! right. pnl1 ok, pnl 2 super unnecessary tilt, especially since the characters are standing upright! They've taken off their robes to reveal their hero kit, this is a big moment, so big in fact that you've HIDDEN the guy behind the girl doing the ridiculous Jim Lee leg-out Psylocke pose from 1991. pnl 3 is her throwing the knife? too far away, no gesture on her--tighter, the knife flying at us pointing down, not up, to lead the reader to next panel. Give her a dramatic baseball pitcher swing, feel the movement, she's throwing to kill--woosh! pnl 4 I like but don't hide the response--pnl 3 is the 'call' she throws the knife and I KNOW it's going to hit something or someone soon, so pnl 4 is the 'response' that echoes my expectation. why not have the guy out front get hit? It's the first thing I see, that guy, so make it easier for all of us (unless the script specifically says not to). pnl 5 is girl vs monk? clear it up, what is actually happening, put it in words--'she does this, he does that' and then show me.
PG 8 - pnl 1 is impenetrable, I have no idea what I'm seeing; I think they're fighting, but the girl gets lost and where's the chick that was tied up? pnl 2, wow that beats is chatty! old schoolmates? pnl 3 I have no idea what he's doing, if he's pointing to the altar draw it like someone who isn't trying to break his rotator cuff by facing foreward and pointing back all at once. Also, where is the fight happening? Ok not to show it here, but isn't it going on in front of the altar? pnl 4 is nice, again where is everyone? big fight is conveniently nowhere to be found, not even with shadows, fallen monk bodies, weapons on the ground, etc. like the layout of this page BTW the panel sizes next to one another. bullshit perspective, bullshit depth--he's on his, what knees in front of the altar? impossible horizon. the monster is leaning into panel from pnl right, why? what's off him now, an arm tentacle thing? wasn't there before, introduce before you use.
PG 8 - pnl 1 girl goes huh. pnl 2 everybody goes huh, presume rubble in fg--no dead monks? where are the stairs, I'm lost as to the layout of this place it seems to keep getting bigger. case in point...pnl 3, WHAT? how is there a giant spire in the middle of this, again, now monstrous cave? So this particular volcano has steps that lead out via...well obviously not the hole in the top, seen in this panel, so some other giant passage at the top? That could all be easily explained visually if you show us somewhere in pg 1 pnl 1 how this all works together, because right now I'm baffled. pnl 4 pose is erik larson on sudafed. Research! Logic! He's leaping from (I guess) a tall cliff edge, toward giant teeth and a very smooth hard floor below--would he go head first? Even if he does, fine, he's crazy--but you have to figure out a pose that fits, this one feels forced. Also no reason to slant inset panel borders, nobody's gotten work that told stories like that since Clinton was in office. Straight parallel lines, horizontal and vertical--it's not fancy otherwise, just shitty.
PG 9 - This is ok, tells me what's happening, but it isn't DYNAMIC. Shot is nice, but what is the big guy doing, fucking it? And for the main action you're dangerously close to cropping him on the right side, can't think of any reason to do that. In this case, you go to the masters--Kirby and Buscema did action best, past or present, and I'll fight any man before Christmas who says otherwise! First think about what he's actually DOING--strangling it? punching it? ripping it's tongue out or climbing inside it's mouth to rip it apart from the inside? Gil Kane already sorta did that in a 70'd GL cover but if you can figure out a new way go for it! Explore the options, splash pages like this should be fun. Careful of all the little people, the angle on them is tough so get reference. Make sure you account for all the monks, the two heroes and the sacrifice girl--how many monks are there? I haven't been counting. Are there other dead ones or just the guy who got the knife in the neck? Show me. Show me everything you can.
Alright man.
Again. I like your work. I wouldn't take the time or get tight with you as I have if I didn't--and people are telling you some of the same things here, I'm one of them, sometimes multiple times. Not that you should listen to me, fuck me! But I figure you post here because you know something isn't working and you want to change, and to do that you want outside input. I can't overly state how courageous and respectable that is; that means you care, and your work reinforces that supposition.
If you disagree with anything I've said, tell me.
I'll be very interested to see these finished.
Without a doubt, keep going.
Cheers,
M
MattTriano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 01:38 AM   #10
Scribbly
Lazy Reader
 
Scribbly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Everland
Posts: 4,394
Scribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud of

I like your layout for these pages they are very dynamic.
Alternative option for page 4 all the way.

I don’t buy these character designs.

The first bulky guy is so Dale’s Keown the Pitt.
Also his anatomy looks incredibly fake.
The girl is totally wonky.
Her torso has not relation with the hips.
These legs…hmm.
The old wizard and the dagger’s guy, too cliché.
Scribbly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 01:55 AM   #11
MattTriano
Cartoonist
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 151
MattTriano will become famous soon enough

On the subject of cropping heads and tilting panel information:

Cropping heads isn't always DEATH, but if you're introducing a character (face or body) for the first time, for instance, then cropping a head doesn't serve your goal. We haven't seen it before hopefully for a reason, so cropping part of it means the part you've cropped is either irrelevant, or you're still waiting to reveal it.
If you have the 22 panels from Wally Wood then you can see all the ways he crops heads and it works. It's circumstantial.

Tilting information in a panel is almost ALWAYS death, and in my opinion, beginners should avoid it like grim death. There are two main reasons: the first, because tilting information in a panel is inherently disorienting to the viewer. If you're trying to show me a ship crashing at an angle, fine--the angle of the ship as it crashes isn't vertical, that's a matter of composition--but to tilt to ground as well means very literally that our point of view on the event is skewed. It doesn't automatically mean 'more dramatic' any more than closeups or extreme far shots do, but as shorthand for 'cool' tilting a panel doesn't translate. If something is tilted then I'd hope a character is drugged and falling asleep, and the world is literally tilting--therefore to enhance the story and communicate that his world is tilting, the panel information tilts. That's one example, but tilting information is a way of playing with reality, forcing the reader to see in a way he or she doesn't see the world, and because of the way our brains interpret vision, can't see the world. Tilt your head, you still know which way is up--tilt a panel, now I'm not sure. If you tilt information to squeeze in more information, it means you need to re-evaluate the panel or even the page; that's compositional forgery, and it's transparent to any editor that sees your sample that you couldn't make it work vertical. So often, tilting is a cop out for 'more': more action, more suspense, more stuff. It almost never works, except when it does (that is, appropriate for the moment in very specialized circumstances). That's a long way of explaining the first reason. The second reason is very concise, and simply this: it looks like shit. How far to tilt? What tilts and what stays level? Nobody can answer these questions in a quantifiable manner because there is no answer, no rule or even guide to how much is appropriate, even in moments where form matches function perfectly. To use the above scenario, a person is severely drugged and their world is turning upside down to them, and to heighten it you tilt the panel, making us feel the character's unease. But how uneasy is he? How much to tilt the horizon is up to you, and if it's clear, fine. But, is it clear? Presumably in the next panel, unless the story goes elsewhere, we're still there with sick boy--so do all the panels showing him tilt? If they all tilt like the first one, the whole page will just be the page, but cocked at 30 degrees left or right. So now you have to mix up your shots, tilting this way and that, until hopefully the poor bastard passes out and we can go back to something that isn't making me feel seasick as I read it.
These are my opinions and must be taken as such; but I've also heard Klaus Janson, Phil Jimenez and David Mazzucchelli (each of whom I was privileged enough to study under at college) describe panel tilting as a no-go, or at the very least, dicey business. I know CB Cebulski, talent headhunter at Marvel, tells new artists never to do it. Mark Chiarello, art director at DC, has made similar statements. It's just a tough call, and usually to the detriment of clarity.
Clear, entertaining, and economic comics are the goal--anything that deviates, unless an intrinsic part of the story (like hiding someone's face because they have a scar, or because 'oh no it's HIM!', etc), is fighting the efficacy of the story.
No fancy shit. Just tell the story.
Oh, and that goes for slanted panel borders too BTW. Looks like shit and it doesn't enhance the story; however, Rob Liefeld gets mileage out of it. Take that how you will.
Cheers,
M
MattTriano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 05:47 AM   #12
Scribbly
Lazy Reader
 
Scribbly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Everland
Posts: 4,394
Scribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud of

Tilting is used only to express instability and unusual or chaotic situations.
Quahkm is making a good use of titling effect in these pages. IMHO.
Scribbly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 02:52 PM   #13
Adam Masterman
Starving cartoonist
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 384
Adam Masterman is a jewel in the roughAdam Masterman is a jewel in the roughAdam Masterman is a jewel in the roughAdam Masterman is a jewel in the rough

@MattTriano,

Your critique sounds so much like Toth on Rude's Johnny Quest that its weird. Were you referencing that? I would assume so, due to the multitude of similarities, but I don't get the reference if so. Or Maybe you just dig Toth's critique style? Anyway, totally off topic, but it was so much like hearing Toth's "voice" again that I had to mention it.

Toth on Rude
Adam Masterman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 06:12 PM   #14
MattTriano
Cartoonist
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 151
MattTriano will become famous soon enough

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Masterman View Post
@MattTriano,

Your critique sounds so much like Toth on Rude's Johnny Quest that its weird. Were you referencing that? I would assume so, due to the multitude of similarities, but I don't get the reference if so. Or Maybe you just dig Toth's critique style? Anyway, totally off topic, but it was so much like hearing Toth's "voice" again that I had to mention it.

Toth on Rude
No I didn't reference it, but yes I do like his crit style. Toth v Rude is easily the most famous and arguably most effective cut-through-the-bullshit critiques I've ever seen. Having said that, all of his crits were that way, especially for himself; he had a mailbox relationship with one of his fans who would send Toth old stories that the artist had done long ago, and Toth would go off on HIMSELF 'Lazy thinking, unclear depth, muddled textures, ect.' I try to bring that spirit, yeah--clear, concise, emphatic.
MattTriano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 07:12 PM   #15
Adam Masterman
Starving cartoonist
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 384
Adam Masterman is a jewel in the roughAdam Masterman is a jewel in the roughAdam Masterman is a jewel in the roughAdam Masterman is a jewel in the rough

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattTriano View Post
No I didn't reference it, but yes I do like his crit style. Toth v Rude is easily the most famous and arguably most effective cut-through-the-bullshit critiques I've ever seen. Having said that, all of his crits were that way, especially for himself; he had a mailbox relationship with one of his fans who would send Toth old stories that the artist had done long ago, and Toth would go off on HIMSELF 'Lazy thinking, unclear depth, muddled textures, ect.' I try to bring that spirit, yeah--clear, concise, emphatic.
I don't critique like that myself, but I've always loved reading that critique. Toth isn't right about everything there, but he's right about an awful lot, and it gives a lot of insight on why he was basically the best there ever was (possible exception of Tezuka). He had a relentless (and difficult) personality, but he used that to become an unparalleled master of the craft. I like Rude's work, but I wish he had been less defensive in his response. Yeah, it was grumpy; so what? By all means, take the meat and leave the bones, but the classy response would have been to ignore the tone and acknowledge the genius behind it.
Adam Masterman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 1997-2013 Digital Webbing, LLC