Assorted inky bits by HdE

[HdE]

Dare I post any more work here? huh? Huh? DARE I?

Well, I figure I'm learning stuff from what you guys said here before, so I'd be silly not to, eh?

Pencils for this are by Roger Cruz, who's made them freely available over on his DA page. I figured I'd attempt something busy with a crazy level of detail and try a different approach.

I've tried to create a little extra space in the panels by breaking the line art in places. I'm loathe to do this, because every colourist I know would rather they had a nice, solid set of lines. Bear in mind that everything I've inked has been with the intent of handing it over to be coloured. Trying to pay more attention to light sources here, too.

Now, the point is, I KNOW there's stuff here I've made a hash of. So, as with the above samples, I'm not posting here to say 'lookit my awesome work, hire me NOW!' so much as I am to see if my analysis of this is the same as anybody else's.

Anyway - without further ado, and with apologies to Mr. Cruz, here it is!

[Mcd91]

Hi,

Your inks are too unclear. First you must establish a fore-middle-background, but in your samples everthing is on one level.

The inks are very "unclean". I can barely read what is going on, not enough depth. Practise a bit more on your linework. Linevariation is the keyword. Maybe try out a brush, as you can achieve the desired results fairly nicely with it.

Also watch out for textures. The tree in panel one looks the same as the inorganic Sentinel metal.

Overall some more work is waiting for you.


Sorry for coming across a little bit negative, but these were the issues I consider most problematic.

Best

Rob

[HdE]

No problem Rob - as I've said on the previous page and in the above comments, I'm learning here by making mistakes and tightening up as I go, and i KNOW there's stuff here that's technically 'wrong'. Much of what you say there, I agree with from a self-critical viewoint, so that's cool. The only point I personally disagree on is your comment about texturing on the trees. There seems to be enough there from the pencils for me to read it as a distinct texture.

As I've also said on the previous page - brushes aren't for me. I've tried painting and inking with the things before and trust me, I get infinitely more control out of a pen than I can with a brush.

I'm also inking at A4 size, by necessity, which limits how thin I can go on the thinnest lines. I'm trying to make sure everything reproduces properly as well, so again, I can only go so skinny with background lines.

Now, what I'm curious about (as I already have a few ideas after inking this page) is to see how you'd perhaps suggest making that fore - mid - background distinction more apparent. Becaue there IS variation in line weight here - it's just obviously not working as yet.

[Mcd91]

Let us see if I can shed some light into that matter.

Bear in mind that it is a tad bit difficult to describe this.

Take panel one for instance. The tree should have a thicker outline than Sentinel, because it is closer to us.

Phoenix? and Iceman appear on the same plane, but they obviously aren't as the penciler drew Bobby much smaller. His outlines should therefore be a bit thinner.

You have linevariation, but only from outline inks and inline inks. What I mean is you should also vary the line itself. From thick to thin.

Does it make sense? Proably not

[HdE]

Even if it didn't make sense, Rob, the fact that you made the effort to try to explain scores big points with me! But nope - all seems pretty clear.

I think I get what you mean - from the research I've been doing, what you're talking about seems to be cursive lines? Where outlines tend to get fatter in the middle?

And I'll admit, that whole business of suggesting depth with tapering lines is something I'm fiddling with right now. I'm not entirely comfortable with it, I have to say, and there's something about using dead-weight contour lines that I really like. So I'm sort of filtering out what can be made to work and what doesn't.

Say - not to be a pain, but could you maybe expand a little more in your comments on the foreground characters in panel 1? I ask, because I KNOW I messed up the girl in the foreground. I was tempted to re-ink her but figured that'd be a bit false to the purpose of learning from you guys. Check again and you'll see that she does have a thicker outline than the other guy ( I dunno who these characters are! Whelp!)

I'm just keen to really get at the root of what you're saying so I can use it.

Rest assured, your comments are much appreciated.

[Mcd91]

I'll see if I can do an overpaint, at the moment I'm not at home so I can't upload anything from the iPad.

[JimCampbell]

Dunno if it helps at all, but Paul Neary succinctly summed it up by explaining that the closer things are to the viewer, the heavier their lines should be, and the blacker their blacks should be (not that you should be using grey tones, but if you have a figure inked lightly in the FG and one with heavy blacks in the BG, the reader's eye will go to the BG figure).

Cheers

Jim

[Mcd91]

updated

[HdE]

Originally Posted by JimCampbell

Dunno if it helps at all, but Paul Neary succinctly summed it up by explaining that the closer things are to the viewer, the heavier their lines should be, and the blacker their blacks should be (not that you should be using grey tones, but if you have a figure inked lightly in the FG and one with heavy blacks in the BG, the reader's eye will go to the BG figure).

Thanks Jim.

I already knew this - and if you check, I DO do this in my inks - but it's good to get some reinforcement of it.

I find it quite a struggle to judge with some of the busier panels on a page lke the one I last posted, because there's quite a variety of objects at different depths in the page - or so it seems to me, anyway. But after doing this page, I think I'm closer to getting that nailed.

I'm on a quest for skinnier lines all the time. It occurs to me that some of my background liens could stand to go a little skinnier, while some of the foreground inks could get a little thicker. I've been known to use MASSIVE foreground contour lines in the past, though, which is something I don't want to get back into.

Useful stuff, Jim. Thanks!

[HdE]

Also, Rob -

Can't tell you how thankful I am for you taking the time to put that together. It's interesting to see another take on the inks.

What's interesting to me is - and don't take this the wrong way, because subjectivity plays a part here - I'm not so keen on that look. Not saying that to diminish any of the advice you've given me, because it's all good stuff, and it validates my own ideas about what's wrong with my inks. But that tree? We're gonna have to disagree there.

POSSIBLY what doesn't come through from my scan is that I've made an effort to make those texture lines on the tree bark a little gnarly and irregular. But then, equally, if it's not showing through, perhaps I've not done a good enough job of it.

In any event - THANKS! This stuff is a huge help. I'm able to re-evaluate what I'm doing more critically with your input.

[Mcd91]

But that tree? We're gonna have to disagree there.

Absolutely!

There is no right or wrong. Take five inkers and you'll get five different results. Sorry that I couldn't finish it, but the baby was crying, and stll is.

[HdE]

Originally Posted by Mcd91

the baby was crying, and stll is.

Aw, come ON! Surely the inks weren't THAT bad?!

[Mcd91]

Quickly finished it.

Part of your problem might be the size. I struggled as well.
Anyway, it is not perfect, but I rushed it out in ten minutes. So what can you expect?

[HdE]

That's some impressive speed, Rob!

Like I said before - interesting to see another take. I'm seeing your point about differentiating texture more clearly there. Very useful, Thanks!

I've got another page of pencils by Mr. Cruz over here. Trying some new ideas with regard to establishing space in the inks. Working at A4 size isn't ideal, but something I'm trying to get around this is outlining all the objects on distinct planes with progressively thicker pen weights, working from back to front.

I'm seeing ways I can make this work. Once I've got something finished, I'll sling it up here to see what you guys make of it.

[chairmanmok]

Originally Posted by JimCampbell

I recall Simon Bisley responding to an interviewer's question about the materials he used by saying that you should draw on a wall with a cigarette butt if the line it made was one that pleased you…

Cheers!

Jim

Simon Bisley is the man! I'm going to quote him!