Assorted inky bits by HdE

[HdE]

Hey y'all - just figured I'd showcase a few pages of inks that I've done over the last year or so. Some of you may know that I recently started lettering comics professionally, but I try to do as much of the 'other stuff' as possible.

Here's a single page I did for the Transformers Mosaic fan project. Pencils were by a phenomenally talented guy I know called 'Divljasvinja', who can be found on DeviantArt.



Sticking with big scary robots, but done from my own pencils:



And here's the opening page of a project I inked and lettered for the 'Out Of Our Minds: Tales From The Comics Experience' anthology. Pencils by Mark Louie Vuycankiat, script by Luke Barnett.



I feel like I'm developing as an inker all the time. Still working on my turnaround time, as I'm pretty slow.

My philosophy is that I should be trying to keep the inks as true to the penciller's work as possible. Let me know what you guys think!

[VANDAL]

I am gonna guess that these are "digital" inks which are NOT inks by the way. The lines are unprofessional and lifeless which is why I am assuming they are "digital". Pick up a pen and a brush,,not fake ones but REAL ones and you might get a much better outcome. Inkers are ARTISTS not pseudo designers.

[HdE]

Actually, in all cases these inks are fully traditional, and rendered mostly with disposable drawing pens. That said, there's quite a bit of brush pen used on the Optimus Prime Print and the first page of Inkman.

Could you explain a few things to me, please?

1 - How are digital inks 'not inks'? I've tried inking digitally before and gave up on it pretty quickly - too involved and laborious for my liking. So I have nothing but respect for people getting results that way. If inkers are indeed artists (which I agree with) then surely their methodology and achieved results are subjective to the same degree that all art is.

2 - What's a 'REAL' pen or brush in your book? I ask, because i've tried a number of different tools, including some high-end drawing pens and found them utterly horrible to use. Also, I'll NEVER use a brush. That just ain't my thing. My Pentel brush pen is as close as it gets.

3 - Just for the sake of my own sanity, could you describe exactly what you mean by 'unprofessional' (for the record, a term I DESPISE seeing used in conjunction with anybody's artwork) and 'lifeless'? because seriously, while I'd be the first to admit that there's stuff in these samples that doesn't sit right from where I stand (I'd not have posted them unless I was looking for suggestions on how to tighten them up) those terms don't actually mean a lot to me.

Not looking to be combative there - I just sincerely would like to know what you specifically mean.

[Rob Norton]

Originally Posted by VANDAL

I am gonna guess that these are "digital" inks which are NOT inks by the way. The lines are unprofessional and lifeless which is why I am assuming they are "digital". Pick up a pen and a brush,,not fake ones but REAL ones and you might get a much better outcome. Inkers are ARTISTS not pseudo designers.

wow...

Vandal, i dont know you sir, but from what i know of you from this site, you are an upstanding guy AND you know your art skills. respect given.
but this post really was all kinds of "pretentious douche". which i dont think you are. but..wow. not very constructive.

so...hey there HdE. if i may add my thoughts,

i think what he was getting at first is that in a way....yes...they do kinda look like they could be digital inks. its hard to explain how and why, but thats what i thought they were at a glance when i saw them.

vandal obviously has an opinion, and its one that i understand to a point, that computers cant take the place of real hand drawn skill.
this is a point up for debate. i woulda never thought for example, a computer animated movie would EVER be as good as traditional hand drawn animation. cause its what i was used to and its more REAL and authentic(or so i thought). but...Pixar and many others have taught us otherwise.
a computer is a tool, just as much as any hand operated pen, brush or whatever. just depends on the skill of whos using it and their ability to objectively look at what they have produced and see if it looks good.
he says theres no "digital ink". well..whatever. we know what hes getting at. to him..and i understand i cause i think the same way..INKS are done by hand, with a bottle of jet black ink, a brush, and time and skill. but similar effects CAN be done on the computer. we're just getting caught up in terminology.

i dont like the idea of inking on a computer, but it can be done. i just think by hand is better.

his other point, a real pen or brush. well..really...its whatever you can use that gets the job done right. i use speedball paint in a little bottle, a fine tip brush, and a quill pen with a hunt 102 tip for work i try my absolute best work on. and then micron pens in various sizes for others stuff. you have to experiment to find what works.
you say you wont use a brush. i would say that if you DO ink by hand, dont give up on it. it DOES take a lot of time to really get the hang of. im not saying im ANY kind of a pro myself, but i have been using a brush for years now and its the best way to get fluid beautiful lines that you can vary the line weights with in a single stroke. ya kinda have to make sure to not be to heavy handed with them. once you get the hang of it..you get all kinds of awesomness happening.

so...finally as for your art. when he says "unprofessional" and "lifeless", that all kinda leads back to his original assumption that these were digitally done, and its SO easy to just have a computer make a boring, straight, non unique line. no line weights. no variation. and thats what it looks like here.

but you are saying these are done by hand, which..good.. i personally think thats the way to go.. BUT..yes... they need some LIFE to them.

thats hard to explain again. but i would suggest looking at some pro inkers work, like Tim Townsends inks over Chris Bachalo. search for a pencil and ink comparison and see how much life and individual interpretation Townsend brings to Bachalos pencils. looks at Joe Weems work over Mike Turner or Marc Silverstri, same thing. klaus jansons inks over John Romita JRs pencils.

there is SO MUCH their hand crafted efforts bring to those pencilers lines. you can see where their skill and craft comes into play and makes the final drawing so frikkin amazing.

your work here has almost no variation in line weights, they are kinda srtaight and dull. not trying to be insulting i promise. just trying to be direct and honest.

the bottom page with the guy and girl seems to be the strongest work shown here. more life and energy than the other pages.

so...sorry for going on so long. i hope i made sense here and wasnt out of line. share more work sir.

rob

[HdE]

Howdy Rob - thanks for your post!

First things first - absolutely no sweat. Nothing insulting there. like I say in my post above, if I didn't want a little perspective on what I areas I need to develop more, I'd not be posting these samples.

I'm ALWAYS happy to engage in conversation with people who can take the time to discuss this stuff in detail, and politely. It's a skill I'm working to improve on all the time, so thanks for the input. You've steered clear of pejorative terms, which is the best possible way to ensure somebody'll listen to feedback. I give out big points for that, and absolutely nothing for a two sentence write-off.

What I'll say about the pages displayed so far is this:

Where Transformers is concerned, I was advised a while back to 'keep it clean and readable.' The rationale that was put to me by another artist was that these are mechanical shapes I'm drawing, and sometimes complex ones, so they're served by clean clinical lines. That said, I DO feel that my inking on backgrounds there needs work. I'm on a quest to get the skinniest lines I can manage and have them still scan well. Making some progress there, but it's a trial and error thing.

Inkman, on the other hand, is more recent work, and much closer to where I'm currently 'at' with my inks. For several reasons, it's not a great idea for me to share the rest of the pages (yet), which is frustrating, because I feel they show a significant step up from where I was even a year ago. General concensus among people who look at my work regularly is that it's the best inking I've done so far. So there's that.

Huge props to you, sir, for sharing notes on the tools you're using. Like I say, brushes aren't my thing. Partly because I don't have the steadiest of hands, but mostly because I've just never found one I can get comfortable with. Micron pens, I've never used, but they're definitely on my list of things to try.

Line weight is an area that I'm concentrating on in a big way in current work. I've always been primarily concerned with establishing planar perspective, varying outlines on foreground objects to make them pop, that sort of thing. As far as varying the weight is concerned, I'm not one to add a huge amount of detail there - I'm just not that kind of artist. But I AM always looking for ways to add more depth and character, and I'm learning stuff all the time.

I recently put out a call for pencillers with available sample pages to see if I can get hold of some new art to ink. I'm pretty busy with other stuff I do in comics at the moment, but if I can snag some samples to work on, I'll be sure to sling 'em up here in the fullness of time.

I'm not looking to discount any feedback here - just explaining my take on things. I'm very concerned with the development of my own abilities, so rest assured I take what you say in the spirit it's intended. Good on you, sir!

[Big Jay]

I think the biggest issue here in that the line weights are all the same, there's no difference from front to back, so everything looks cluttered. Disposable pens are nice for some things they just don't allow for variation in line weights.Upon first glance these do look "digital" but that's from the use of the pens..Keep practicing with nibs and brushes you'll get the hang of them..

[HdE]

Howdy Jay - thanks for the input.

Eeeh... the thing with brushes and me is I've always gone through phases of using them for different things, and each time, I quickly get annoyed with them and ditch them. They're just not for me. In my hands, they 're dangerusly unpredictable things.

What I've been doing a lot more of late is inking with Faber Castell PITT pens, which come out really nicely, and then building up certain areas with my 0.05 Copic. That certainly makes a difference, although I'm still practicing and getting the hang of it.

[HdE]

As I think of it, probably safe to post the other display page of Inkman:

[Vicmoya]

I have to agree with everyone on the line weights. You are using some varying line weights on the pages but like any other tool in the tool box, you have to use it properly. Now don't just go off and start getting crazy with varied lines. Think about your light source, separating forground from middle ground from background. Think about the texture of the surface you are trying to convey. Sometimes a dead weight line is the right choice. Sometimes a dry brush effect or even a super wavy running out of inks cratched with a razor kind of thing is necessary.

The point is, as an inker yo are trying to fool the reader into believing this flat two dimensional drawing has depth and substance. There is no one right way to achieve this but a multitude of possibilities. Check out The Art Of Inking volumes one and two. I think these books show this the best. They have several pencilled pages and examples of several different inkers takes on those pages. It's amazing what you see when you can look at four different inkers interpretations of the same penciled page.

Now about the brush, nib or marker debate. It's all personal taste. although it may take more time and effort to achieve the desired effect of a brush using markers. Nor is it easy to get the dead weight line desired from a brush. I say use the right tool for the job. Whatever that may be. And brushes Do have a certain amount of unpredictability, but that is what I love about them. The truth is, nothing can give you the same kind of life a brush can. You can fake it, but it's just not the same.

There's my two cents. Hope I was of some help. Now let's see some more!

[HdE]

You absolutely were, Vic - thanks a lot!

Quite literally, I learn little snippets of information about inking discipline all the time - and that's the best way for me to take stuff on board. Sometimes the stuff I pick up is mind blowing, sometimes infuriating.

But quite honestly, I'm grateful to anybody who can arm me with a bit of knowledge. So thanks, fellas!

[JimCampbell]

Originally Posted by VANDAL

I am gonna guess that these are "digital" inks which are NOT inks by the way.

Brian Bolland, Dave Gibbons and Frazer Irving disagree with you.

Cheers

Jim

[HdE]

Well, I WAS gonna say that...

[Vicmoya]

Ummm....on that note. Fank Cho, Art Adams and Randy Green ink full pages with Micron markers. Good enough for them, good enough for me.

[HdE]

Ayup - having seen the stellar work you're putting out there in your thread, Vic, I'd say anyone would be churlish to argue with that.

That's kinda my point about subjectivity and pens, brushes markers, whatever.

Part of the fun for me - and I really must stress, I'm inking mostly for fun and relaxation here - is finding that tool that feels 'right'. And I do believe I've been finding a lot of the WRONG tools!

I'm currently inking some pencils I nabbed off of DeviantArt, using my new Copics and finest weight disposables. I'm trying to put into practice some of the stuff you guys have put to me here, to see if I'm interpreting things correctly - and I'm rapidly learning that I LOVE using the Copics!

I just discovered that Copic make a refillable drawing pen that goes finer than a 0.05. I think I'll track one down and make those my primary inking tools. Inking direct to paper with my recently acquired lightbox is also a LOT of fun!

[JimCampbell]

Originally Posted by HdE

That's kinda my point about subjectivity and pens, brushes markers, whatever.

I recall Simon Bisley responding to an interviewer's question about the materials he used by saying that you should draw on a wall with a cigarette butt if the line it made was one that pleased you…

Cheers!

Jim