Fundstarter Project?

[Renae De Liz]

Originally Posted by amon

Because a universe has to have established "rules" about how it all works together. So there's a major stumbling block right there.

Also, since all the basic "types" of superhero already exist, the temptation is most often to do a "correct" version of [Batman, Superman, Wolverine, etc.]. Invariably, there will be people with different versions of each. So who gets Batman if two people want Batman?

Ownership of the material and intellectual properties. Why put forth effort into creating something that not only won't reap anything beyond near-term recognition, but also likely someone else will damage?

Everyone decides the rules together, 1 person in charge to make the decisions. Everyone creates according to those rules. Promote being more creative with superheroes, again, one person or editors in place to help them along that path. Everyone owns their own characters. I don't see anything bad with that! Marvel & DC may always be on top, but there's no saying that a 3rd superhero universe, properly done with the fresh new ideas people say they want, couldn't be successful! Just sayin'

[amon]

Look back at the past 30+ years in comics. What new "universe" concept has succeeded? Even the main two universes have failed, again and again, needing constant retcons and reboots to keep things going.

If separate intellectual properties occasionally bump into one another, that can sometimes be fun. But coordinating multiple properties to work in-gear with one another from the onset, is simply a bad idea.

[rendergee]

Originally Posted by amon

Look back at the past 30+ years in comics. What new "universe" concept has succeeded? Even the main two universes have failed, again and again, needing constant retcons and reboots to keep things going.

If separate intellectual properties occasionally bump into one another, that can sometimes be fun. But coordinating multiple properties to work in-gear with one another from the onset, is simply a bad idea.

30 years? Doesn't sound like a failure to me. They are still around and they are making it again, I fail to see the failure.

[Blargo]

I've always had this vision that a company that worked at finding new talent could be successful. Give a shot to great storytellers, both artists and writers, who can't get a shot someplace else. I've always figured that there have to be plenty of amazing stories out there, a publisher just needs to find them. Say, for example, you've got King Power as an ongoing title. Use it to tell a series of one shot stories by different creative teams, guys who've never done anything else. Then, as success and money allow, move the best of them into their own projects. Might be a way to draw attention to the project.

[CHWolf]

amon - Valid points. My only counter-point would be that the universe that has succeeded, at least marginally AS a universe, would be the shared Image continuity. Now, I know all the reasons that doesn't sound like it makes sense, but just look at it from the following angle. Multiple stories published under one umbrella share a universe wherein characters can occasionally meet, and to my knowledge their titles don't get rebooted and damage-controlled often, if at all.

That's sort of what I'd envision. Seperate titles, seperate characters, in seperate cities, but with the ability to call upon the benefits of a shared univierse when preferred.


Now, if I may set about deconstructing Naenae... In a matter of speaking...

Apparent keys to a successful fundraising project:

1.) Charity. Okay, maybe next time. Let's start again.

1.) Multiple contributors to bring in their friends, family, and fans to donate.
2.) A general theme that strikes one as bold, IE: All-female anthology or New Universe.
3.) A factor that ensures existing fanbases will support it. IE: "Heroism", both projects.
4.) Well-known folks to support it. I'm sure we could muster up some interest...?
5.) I forget.



So looking at the above, an anthology format might seem like the key to success on this project as well, were it to come to pass.

If we indeed proceed in that direction, what I would propose is this:




Point 1: The "back up story" IS the main story.

In other words, each "issue" is a new character, a new tale, a new creative team. The shorter back-up story is the ongoing tale that is setting up something within the universe. For example, the back up may deal with a mysterious character who is documenting the strengths and weaknesses of this universe's heroes, with the culmination to come later on. Not a crossover or spectacle, but maybe just one of the titles.

(Keep in mind that when I say "a new creative team", I'm still envisioning that each story would split into its own ongoing if possible, so it's not like people would just get one shot at a story and that's the end of it.)


Point 2: It's an anthology AND an ongoing.

Buy the first X amount of issues in print as an anthology book, and/or buy each issue seperately in digital format.

The Anthology would be a print GN with each "story" or "issue" inside, and the "back up story" as one contiguous tale.

The digital comics would be each section of the Anthology, with a bit of the back up, as seperate issues. Issue 1, 2, 3, etc.



Thoughts? Pros? Cons?


Edit: Blargo - HEAR, HEAR!

[Renae De Liz]

@Amon - I'm in charge of a book with 140 (and more soon, doesn't count inkers/colorists I still need to recruit!) people, I know what an organizational task it is. But it's very doable! Maybe the others failed because it wasn't done right, maybe you guys know what it takes to make it succeed. Why not try? You shouldn't assume won't work just because it hasn't yet, have any tried on the level I'm suggesting? Figure out why the others failed and work around it to find a way to succeed. What have you got to lose?

You obviously have lots of interest and people willing to work for no cost, that's awesome. And personally, a larger book has more of an "Introduction to a Universe" feel versus a smaller book which feels more "Introduction to a superhero". But that's just my opinion!

I look forward to whatever you guys choose to do! You can bet I'll promote the heck out of it when it's available to fund!

[CHWolf]

What's your take on the "Get it as an anthology in print, buy seperate issues digitally" aspect?

That way it's both a larger book and a smaller book.

[Renae De Liz]

Originally Posted by CHWolf

What's your take on the "Get it as an anthology in print, buy seperate issues digitally" aspect?

That way it's both a larger book and a smaller book.

That's a very cool idea! I won't lie, I know very very little about digital books, but yeah being able to buy the cheaper single issues seems like a great idea for those that want to see what your book is about but can't afford the bigger book. (and maybe offer the anthology digitally as well for those that want the whole kaboodle?)

I love the direction everyone is taking and I know the people here have very good opinions on what makes a good superhero/ superhero universe and what doesn't. It'd be great to see everyone's visions take flight like this!

So YOU GO Wolf-face!

[Blargo]

My three cents are that both points are good ideas. You, or you and your core group, develop the concept for the back story/main story, and perhaps even the basic character concepts of the single issues. Then let guys pitch you story ideas for the single issues.

And since I'm tossing out some of the thoughts that have been floating around in my head for a long time...how crazy would it be to offer the digital issues for free? Despite my best attempts to forget all about it, I can't help but remember the craze that was River Dance. As that show traveled the country, local PBS stations would broadcast taped versions of the performances in advance of the actual live show arriving in town. Then, when the show did arrive, even though everyone had already watched them, for free, on tv, doing the exact same performance that would be done live, the shows sold out almost immediately after tickets went on sale. The free version got folks excited about the "real" thing.

Could the same work for you? If people are excited and enjoyed the free digital issues, would that then make them more likely to go buy the print version? I know that it would work on me. If I liked the issues online, and could then go buy a collection, something to hold, something with a cool and awesome cover, I'd do it. Of course, I might be the only one who would, in which case this would be an awesomely bad idea, lol

[amon]

Originally Posted by naenae

I'm in charge of a book with 140 people, I know what an organizational task it is. But it's very doable!

Are all the intellectual properties in your anthology set in a shared "universe?" Does your project have a set of rules that each contributor must abide by, so as not to contradict other contributors' work? Or can Gail Simone take one of your characters and drop her off a bridge? I'm not seeing where what you're doing on your project is tantamount to what's being suggested here, at least content-wise.

Originally Posted by naenae

Figure out why the others failed

I have. That's why I say trying to coordinate a universe concept is inherently a bad idea.

If you haven't read it already, check out James Robinson's Firearm (look in the quarter bins). It was an anomaly, as it was the the only good series in the Malibu Ultraverse. On its own, it was quite wonderful. But every now and then, elements (usually crossover events) from the Ultraverse crept in and spoiled the story.

[Renae De Liz]

Our specific rules are that is must be from the theme Heroic, and as kids are reading it, must be under "PG-13", nothing too controversial, no sex, nudity, etc. I encourage them to be as creative with the term Heroic as possible. I guess if Gail Simone wanted to throw a character off a bridge I wouldn't care so long as there was no excessive gore at the end.

You would have rules too. Yours would be to create a character within certain rules of that universe. Totally doable! And having those rules gives your creative teams a platform on which to build their character, which for a lot of people is helpful

As for quality control, that's why you have people in charge to monitor and keep watch over things, I've got 4-6 editors in place (as well as myself) keeping watch over the women on our book. So far the story ideas seem right along from what I've hoped.

And it sounds like you've got great input on what works/doesn't work so I hope you apply that knowledge to this great project, and I will for certain try to check out that book you mentioned

[CHWolf]

To play Devil's Advocate once more, I'd also dare to say that going "creator owned" might cause some problems.

How high would everyone's level of distaste be with "in-house" characters? Either created by the... *shudder*... management - or by creators with the express knowledge that material is to be "project-owned"?


The reason I mention this is to address possible issues with, say, "I don't want to do this anymore. Remove my comic, AND remove all comics by other people that had my character in them or else! Raaarr!!!"


It would be a real shame to "launch" a group of titles using donated funds, and lose half of them to another publisher, as another example. It's not likely, but why not safeguard to protect the interests of the donators and other project members?


As I say the options would be...

1.) Just straight-up creator owned.
2.) Characters created in-house.
3.) Creator owned w/agreement they can be used by project in the future.
4.) Creator is simply appropriately compensated for creations.


#4 can be a bit tricky, naturally. Nobody wants another "Superman Screw-Over".


If we're emulating a "big two" universe without the "big two" problems, how much should we emulate in terms of in-house characters, etc.?


These are difficult issues, best worked out beforehand. And as I've previously said, this is just the "What if-?" phase, so here we go.

[amon]

From a blog of a person I'm assuming is the same Steven Forbes who posts here:

The Marvel Universe didn’t just come into being. They were basically a collection of stories that became a universe over time. It was done organically. This is what I want you to do. If you’re going to create a shared superhero universe, you have to let it grow organically. A single title at a time.

http://www.comixtribe.com/2011/05/10...hero-universe/

[SuperMonkey]

Originally Posted by CHWolf

To play Devil's Advocate once more, I'd also dare to say that going "creator owned" might cause some problems.

How high would everyone's level of distaste be with "in-house" characters? Either created by the... *shudder*... management - or by creators with the express knowledge that material is to be "project-owned"?


The reason I mention this is to address possible issues with, say, "I don't want to do this anymore. Remove my comic, AND remove all comics by other people that had my character in them or else! Raaarr!!!"


It would be a real shame to "launch" a group of titles using donated funds, and lose half of them to another publisher, as another example. It's not likely, but why not safeguard to protect the interests of the donators and other project members?


As I say the options would be...

1.) Just straight-up creator owned.
2.) Characters created in-house.
3.) Creator owned w/agreement they can be used by project in the future.
4.) Creator is simply appropriately compensated for creations.


#4 can be a bit tricky, naturally. Nobody wants another "Superman Screw-Over".


If we're emulating a "big two" universe without the "big two" problems, how much should we emulate in terms of in-house characters, etc.?


These are difficult issues, best worked out beforehand. And as I've previously said, this is just the "What if-?" phase, so here we go.

I vote for #3. Nice middle-of-the-road with little room for difficulty.

Of course, that means it will probably end with lawsuits, blood feuds, and someone inevitably sacrificing their first-born to Lucifer. Let's go with #2 instead.

[CHWolf]

The Marvel Universe was a collection of stories in the same universe.

The only diff. between then and now is the bloated size of it.

I'm essentially advocating the universe w/o the bloat. Every title is an island between which travel is rare, etc.



As for the character pool... honestly, I could dole them out left and right from my character "bible". Or whomever else that was selected for the job could probably do the deed.

However, I don't know how well that'd go over - locking creators out of character creation.

If nobody actually has a problem with that, I'd definitely be surprised and pleased, because it makes the whole thing much easier.

XD