First crack at a pitch (yes, another one)

[Yossarian]

Hi guys.

This is my first go at a pitch I'm working on so I thought I should throw it up on here- see where it's sketchy, see what sticks etc. The general theme I'm going for is basically 'What if the X-Men were in a John Le Carré novel and hung out with Jason Bourne'.

I've not included all my ideas in this but I may include more info in a second draft. Feel free to ask anything if you're unclear what I'm trying to do, and as per any criticism is welcome.

without further ado.



Pitch for POST


They are spies in a world on the precipice
They have the power to save the world
And they have been betrayed.

The world is on the brink of destruction. Resources are running out, and international conflict has escalated in their decline. The environment is under catastrophic strain and the future of the planet is uncertain.

As the world declined, a new force has emerged: super humans walk in secret amongst us, little more than urban legends and whispered myths. Seeking to dominate the course of the geo political landscape, the remaining world powers have engaged in a secretive Cold War to uncover these Post Human individuals and control their incredible powers.

One such individual is Samuel Heller, a city salary man who discovers he may be indestructible, and soon becomes a highly sought after prize between conflicting espionage agencies. Faced with the end of his life as he knows it and desperate for answers, Sam is quickly recruited by a clandestine organisation operating out of Europe

Joining a team of like minded post humans, Sam begins a new life in an amoral conflict that exists in the blurred secret world in the backs treets and shadows of the every day life he previously knew. Things quickly go awry however, as the team is betrayed, one of their own captured and the trust they lived by is destroyed.

Forced underground and far beyond everything they’ve ever known, the team must embark on a quest for revenge, survival, retribution and, most importantly, answers.

[Fred Duran]

Originally Posted by Yossarian

They are spies in a world on the precipice
They have the power to save the world
And they have been betrayed.

That right there sounded perfect. I instantly got the idea of what this was going to be like: sort of like an apocalyptic espionage superhero story with a twist. And that kind of stuff appeals to me, so I was hooked.

Some criticisms:

Originally Posted by Yossarian

Joining a team of like minded post humans, Sam begins a new life in an amoral conflict that exists in the blurred secret world in the backs treets and shadows of the every day life he previously knew.

Now, I know exactly what you're saying. It just sounds . . . cliche? I'm not sure how to put it. It seems like you're being overly wordy for dramatic effect. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for colorful exposition (as are 99% of the writers in the world), but there's a line between colorful and unnecessary and you might've crossed it here. Let's see what other people have to say about that.

Also, I just want to ask if this is set on Earth. I'm about 99% sure that it is set on our planet, but just in case, I thought I'd get that clarified.

Originally Posted by Yossarian

As the world declined, a new force has emerged: super humans walk in secret amongst us, little more than urban legends and whispered myths.

The way that reads currently, it sounds like the world's decline was the thing that brought these super humans out, which makes me wonder if that's what you meant, because later on we have . . .

Originally Posted by Yossarian

One such individual is Samuel Heller, a city salary man who discovers he may be indestructible

. . . which makes it sound like these Post Humans had no idea they were Post Humans and have recently gained their powers almost arbitrarily.

So what that boils down to is this: Were they super BEFORE the world went down the drain, or is it BECAUSE the world went down the drain that they became super?

If they were super before the world went to hell, why are they coming out of hiding or seclusion now? Is it to save the world? To play Gods? What's their reason for revealing themselves? What's their motivation? Robert McKee's screenwriting book "Story" has received mixed reactions on its ability to translate to comics, but he has a very true idea of motivation: Nobody is going to do more than they think they have to do in order to achieve their ends. With that said, whatever is drawing them out of hiding has to be epic (i.e. the end of the world), something so catastrophic that to achieve their ends (i.e. staying alive) they have ABSOLUTELY no other choice but to come out of hiding.

Then you have the flip side of the coin - they're only super because the world is going to shit. That gives you the omnipresent question of why? Why are they getting these powers? Maybe more importantly, how? Is the Earth trying to use the human race to save itself by empowering certain individuals? Government experiments? Aliens? Why and how are these people getting these powers, and why these people specifically?

Whew.

With all that said, I wouldn't think that you'd want that kind of specific detail in your pitch. I'm just saying when it comes to that part where you introduce the aspect of super humans in your pitch, just indicate whether they're coming out of the woodwork or they were just suddenly "blessed" with these powers, and for the former give a hint as to why they're doing it, and for the latter maybe a hint about how they got "blessed" and maybe why.

Lastly, a name for the clandestine organization out of Europe? Something cool, smooth, and dangerous. People like to read about cool shit like that - take the Matrix for example. Everything that had to be named got a kickass name - Morpheus, the Logos, Zion, Locke, etc.

You definitely have a strong foundation for this, and from your comment about a second draft, it sounds like you have more story rattling around in your head, which can only help as you shape the story as a whole. Definitely good stuff. Get on that second draft so we can see it.

-Fred

[Yossarian]

Thanks for the feedback dude. Some good questions too.

quicky: yes this is on Earth but not in the present day. Some years will have passed and things have changed dramatically.

With regards to the origins of their powers, I'm currently working on building that as The Big Question of the book, almost. As it stands, however, the answer is a kind of 'nobody quite knows'.

the reason I'm going with this is not because I don't have an answer yet, but it's all to do with the 'save the world' part. With this not being a super hero book ( I think hero would be a bad name for them, powers or not) there's not going to be an event where Superman flies in to space and catches an asteroid.
Instead, I want to capture them as part of this Cold War they're fighting. In the first cold war, whoever had the biggest nuclear arsenal won- what followed was an American rise and Russian decline because, with the economic power behind them, America was dictating the terms of world politics.
This time around, it's powers, not nukes. For example- say someone exists with powers that could remove our dependency on oil, that changes everything. If he's under the control of a political power, however, the terms of that change are in their hands. They can leverage huge influence from that resource.

(wow that quickly turned in to a mini essay)

and agency names. Good one. I'm loathe to try and come up with an acronym because of S.H.I.E.L.D but I'll try and think of something. I always liked how Le'Carré called his British secret service The Circus as a kind of friendly code word between agents. Maybe I'll follow that route.

[Fred Duran]

Originally Posted by Yossarian

This time around, it's powers, not nukes. For example- say someone exists with powers that could remove our dependency on oil, that changes everything. If he's under the control of a political power, however, the terms of that change are in their hands. They can leverage huge influence from that resource.

THAT needs to be in your pitch somewhere, because that adds a really deep wrinkle to the whole thing. I know in your original pitch you say something about competing foreign espionage agencies trying to nab up all these Post Humans, which admittedly could lend itself to what I quoted above, but I first thought of superhuman spies (i.e. some guy that can turn invisible to sneak into a warehouse, etc.). With this, however, you've got something REALLY concrete, original, and interesting.

Originally Posted by Yossarian

and agency names. Good one. I'm loathe to try and come up with an acronym because of S.H.I.E.L.D but I'll try and think of something. I always liked how Le'Carré called his British secret service The Circus as a kind of friendly code word between agents. Maybe I'll follow that route.

Yeah, something like that. Points if you can take something prissy and make it sound badass (i.e. Tom Clancy's "Rainbow 6").

Good stuff sir.

-Fred

[Yossarian]

bumpedy bump for draft 2.

I think this one is way better. Expanded a whole lot of stuff people found confusing and clarified a few of my ideas. Hope it worked!

Pitch for POST


They are spies in a world on the precipice
They have the power to save the world
And they have been betrayed.

The world is on the brink of destruction. Resources are running out and international conflict has escalated in their decline. The environment is under catastrophic strain and the future of the planet is uncertain.

As the world declined, a new force has emerged: super humans walk in secret amongst us, little more than urban legends and whispered myths. In an effort to use super human powers to dominate the political landscape the remaining world powers have engaged in a secretive Cold War to locate, recruit and study Post Human individuals across the globe for their own benefit. With each Post Human potentially leapfrogging scientific progress by decades or centuries, control over powerful individuals, like the classification of becoming a Nuclear Power, has become a valuable form of international currency and influence.

One such individual is Samuel Heller who, in an accident that should have killed him, discovers he may be indestructible. Soon, Sam becomes a highly sought after prize between conflicting espionage agencies. He is quickly approached by D.I.C.E, a clandestine organisation operating in Western Europe that, like many others around the world, employs teams of Post Human special agents to track, recruit and control Post Humans wherever they can be found.

Known to various world governments as one of the most powerful individuals alive and, faced with the end of his life as he knows it, Sam is recruited in to D.I.C.E – becoming a covert operative in exchange for promised answers to the nature of his abilities.
Joining a team of Post Human agents, Sam is thrown in to an amoral conflict where his morals and limits are tested and his perceptions of right and wrong are blurred beyond recognition. An uneasy foot soldier, Sam is forced to confront his own willingness and capacity, as a post human, to commit acts of violence and treachery in his new life.

Sam is eventually forced to confront his doubts when the team is betrayed from inside D.I.C.E and one of their own is captured by hostile agents. Right and wrong become irrelevant as Sam is drawn in to a final conflict in which he must embrace his ability and darkest nature to simply survive.

[Fred Duran]

Definitely a lot better. Some crits below.

Originally Posted by Yossarian

With each Post Human potentially leapfrogging scientific progress by decades or centuries, control over powerful individuals, like the classification of becoming a Nuclear Power, has become a valuable form of international currency and influence.

VERY nice. You not only give the broad scenario, but a specific example, which leads the reader to wonder what the hell else could be possible for these Post Humans, how competing governments could use these potential powers, and to what lengths those governments would go to secure them. Very interesting.

Originally Posted by Yossarian

He is quickly approached by D.I.C.E, a clandestine organisation operating in Western Europe that, like many others around the world, employs teams of Post Human special agents to track, recruit and control Post Humans wherever they can be found.

Also very nice. To tell you the truth, I like the fact that you never spell out whatever D.I.C.E. stands for, because, again, it leads me to wonder what it stands for. I'm sitting here speculating (and these kinds of things drive me insane, not knowing what acronyms stand for), and that just makes me want to read more, which is always a plus. I just want to make sure that you actually HAVE a spelled out version for what D.I.C.E. stands for.
Also, with the addition of the fact that this organization is actually COMPRISED of Post Humans, it adds a new interesting wrinkle to this. Whereas before I just thought it was an organization of regular people trying to uncover some conspiracy, the fact that they're all in it together makes the group that much stronger. In addition to that, it makes the betrayal at the end that much stronger as well - these people are in a struggle together, so to have one of their own betray them is pretty screwed up.

Originally Posted by Yossarian

Known to various world governments as one of the most powerful individuals alive and, faced with the end of his life as he knows it, Sam is recruited in to D.I.C.E – becoming a covert operative in exchange for promised answers to the nature of his abilities.

I'm sure there's a highly intricate explanation for what exactly D.I.C.E. does (I'm not saying that to be an asshole, I just mean that you seem to have a very good idea of what's going on in this story and where this is going), but if there's a super condensed version of what it is that D.I.C.E. has their operatives do, maybe include that? Something as simple as "anarchist television broadcasts" or "guerilla attacks" would work, I'm just curious as to what D.I.C.E. is doing against the governments that are trying to take over the Post Human population.

Originally Posted by Yossarian

Joining a team of Post Human agents, Sam is thrown in to an amoral conflict where his morals and limits are tested and his perceptions of right and wrong are blurred beyond recognition.

I know what you're TRYING to say, but here you're being a little repetitive. The shit of it is I can't figure out a way to say it differently.

Then we have this...

Originally Posted by Yossarian

An uneasy foot soldier, Sam is forced to confront his own willingness and capacity, as a post human, to commit acts of violence and treachery in his new life.

and this...

Originally Posted by Yossarian

Sam is eventually forced to confront his doubts when the team is betrayed from inside D.I.C.E and one of their own is captured by hostile agents.

Once again, I know what you're trying to say, and these two quotes are different, but for some reason at first read I read them as saying something very similar. I think it's the fact that you use the phrase "forced to confront" early on in both of them.
In the second quote, "forced to confront his doubts" sounds weird, so if you're going to change either of those "forced to confront"s, I'd change that one. He's not really CONFRONTING his doubts, he's realizing after the fact that he had reason TO doubt, because all those "there's something not right here" feelings he's been having were spot-on, as they've been betrayed from within. So maybe change it to something along the lines of "Sam eventually realizes his doubts were well-founded when the team is betrayed etc etc etc". That's just my two cents on that, because as long as you're reading carefully you know that those two paragraphs are saying two different things. I just had to read them twice because of the similarity of their first lines.

Originally Posted by Yossarian

Right and wrong become irrelevant as Sam is drawn in to a final conflict in which he must embrace his ability and darkest nature to simply survive.

That's a killer ending right there. I like that a lot.

Good stuff all in all, definitely interesting, and definitely a lot cleaner and sharper than your first draft. Keep at it sir, fine work.

-Fred

[Yossarian]

argh frak I always do that repeated phrase thing! I get a phrase I like in my head and it comes back later to make me look like a retard.

I'm gonna do a proper reply in the morning I think. Need sleep.

[Bread]

This isn't the greatest pitch in the world, but you're working on it. That's good. Keep it up.

Now, I'm not sure if you know Richcapo in person or not, but I'm definitely getting this vibe like maybe you slept with his wife or something. I really can't stand some of the stuff people try to pass off as writing on this forum, but you definitely didn't deserve whatever the hell it was I just read.

I guess because this one guy doesn't care for X-Men or Jason Bourne your whole idea fucking sucks. Bummer! And if you can't tell from the nine times he used the word, it's also a giant cliche. Remember, Rich said it, so it's probably true.

One point Rich made that I must agree with is your use of 'SAT synonyms'. If you're using words like pastiche, trite, and juxtaposition in your pitch you have a lot of rewriting to do! As always, keep in mind that Rich would never do the thing he was criticizing while criticizing it!

Also, if you could try to avoid employing a series of sentences communicating themes in your story to the reader, you could only benefit from it. Ron Moore clearly invented the technique when he relaunched Battlestar Galactica, so there's probably some rule somewhere that says no one else can use it. We know this because Rich said it. And if Rich said it, then it must be true. Hey, that's kind of circular, just like the plot of SPOILER Battlestar Galactica!

In closing, keep working on your pitch. We can forgive Rich this time because sometimes it's hard to avoid posting on a message board after you've had a bad date, and I'd be upset if she didn't kiss me, too.

[Yossarian]

I hate to say it Richard, but if you'd read the thread you'd realize you just took apart the first draft which I replaced 2 posts before you came in.

also: Precipice isn't pretentious. It's just a fucking word. I like it, and I used it properly. That's not pretentious.

[madelf]

Originally Posted by Bread

Now, I'm not sure if you know Richcapo in person or not, but I'm definitely getting this vibe like maybe you slept with his wife or something.

It's typical of all his comments, nearly word-for-word, regardless of whose work he's commenting on. I can only assume he's never read anything that lived up to his lofty standards, and it's made him bitter.

[Steven Forbes]

I was going to write something about me being a hard-ass, but with a purpose and a method behind my madness, but then I decided against it. I was going to say something about me being harsh, but without looking down my nose at people. I was going to say a lot of things...

What I will say, Rich, is that yes, your post sounded mean spirited and arrogant. Yes, we understand it's your opinion, because you told us so at every opportunity, but I'd like to take the time to remind you that writers come here looking for constructive criticism--not for someone to rip apart their work with an upturned nose and an air of superiority and only be spectacularly unhelpful in the process.

You wrote more in your seemingly angry deconstruction of his pitch than the original pitch itself. I think you more than doubled it.

Having high standards is fine. Wanting others to have high standards is fine. I just suggest that you add "constructive" to the criticism. Give a creator something to work with, otherwise, your words will be dismissed (and rightfully so) as unhelpful, which means you've really done nothing more than waste your own time.

-Steven