Another good column to keep an eye on

[Dan Hill]

I noticed this second column from the Managing Editor of Oni Press over at Blog@Newsarama today.

http://blog.newsarama.com/2009/02/24...professionals/

It makes for some good reading. He even references one of our own

[j giar]

It's funny you would post this article...I've reached that point with my work. As I've come to call it..."Overcoming Mediocrity". The work I'm currently doing isn't where I feel it should be, mediocre at best, if you will...It most certainly doesn't measure up to the artists I admire. So I've a new goal and a new direction. Thanks for posting this. It's confirmed a few things for myself.

[MrGranger]

That is SO good.

[Scribbly]

Originally Posted by Dan Hill

I noticed this second column from the Managing Editor of Oni Press over at Blog@Newsarama today.

http://blog.newsarama.com/2009/02/24...professionals/

It makes for some good reading. He even references one of our own

And who can say that the author of this column is not a mediocre himself ?
What are his relevant artistic creations?
Because his is an Editor he can judge and criticize everyone. So what?
I will like to see see his writing or drawing skills at first, and then keep note of his opinions according to that.
He should be grateful for all those delusional amateurs, because they are the people who are paying and feeding him and the comic industry.

[jimmybott]

I agree with a lot of the things said in this column. Like j giar I'm also well aware of my current limitations, I can't speak for jim, but I'm pretty sure like anyone else trying to improve, we both do a lot of the things that Toth mentions to Rude about constantly studying and working to improve. Not letting yourself become complacent, gathering reference material, etc. I get pretty frustrated with my artwork at the best of times, that it doesn't ever come out quite how I envision it as I'm working on it and I think that only makes me constantly strive to do better work. I can't think of many things more satisfying than looking through your portfolio and seeing the growth over a period of time.

On a side note, after reading Steven Forbes long comment on that column am I the only one who thinks he may be a little delsuional himself? Let me quote from one of his many profiles "I am also helping new writers hone their storytelling skills as a freelance editor, freely giving his time at Digital Webbing for general story notes, and going deeper for those writers who privately contract my services". Well not only is the sentence in both first and third person, but "freely giving us his time", wow I feel blessed.

Yes, as the column said, we creators need to be honest with ourselves and our abilities. But I think everyone needs to check their ego at the door. Including indy editors and columnists. In a lot of ways there is a lot more ego in the indy world than there is within the mainstream industry. I feel many editors I know give advice or critiques due to their passion towards the medium and wanting to nurture future talent and some because of the power, the ego trip and their own self importance.

[Dan Hill]

Originally Posted by Scribbly

And who can say that the author of this column is not a mediocre himself ?
What are his relevant artistic creations?
Because his is an Editor he can judge and criticize everyone. So what?
I will like to see see his writing or drawing skills at first, and then keep note of his opinions according to that.
He should be grateful for all those delusional amateurs, because they are the people who are paying and feeding him and the comic industry.

I kind of get what you're saying but at the same time he has overseen and edited such projects as Queen and Country and Wasteland. The guy has obviously gotten where he is because he is good at what he does.

[carynord]

Originally Posted by Scribbly

And who can say that the author of this column is not a mediocre himself ?
What are his relevant artistic creations?
Because his is an Editor he can judge and criticize everyone. So what?
I will like to see see his writing or drawing skills at first, and then keep note of his opinions according to that.
He should be grateful for all those delusional amateurs, because they are the people who are paying and feeding him and the comic industry.

Man, he's giving good, solid advice. Period. Editors are not the incompetent idiots everyone takes them for. They are hired because they DO know what they are talking about. Learning to respect them would be a wise decision because they are the ones giving out jobs.

It doesn't take an art degree to be able to tell what good art versus bad art is. I'm no writer, but I sure can tell the difference between good and bad writing.

[robbdaman]

While I agree it is frustrating to hear this kind of thing from small press editors they do see an insane amount of stuff and I can only imagine it must be tiring to have to look at stuff that could really be as terrible as they say. Granted Oni doesn't exactly do much mainstream art and I don't think I've seen anything they produce match up to DC or Marvel levels of art but I digress. His follow up post about furries, demon porn, tentacle rape, and scary fan fic superhero is probably rather explanatory of what they see too much of and if I were him I'd be real tired of seeing any of such things.

I remember a quote from Erik Larsen when he was still in the publisher role at Image saying pretty much the same thing about many of the submissions they get. He said he once took a submission home to his 7 year old to prove to his kid that a 7 year old can draw better than some of the subs they get. I don't know about you guys but I don't consider Larsen to be mediocre so it's not just Oni.

I had aspirations to be a comic artist like most kids that grew up reading them, but I had to realize that my hands would not let me translate what my brain could visualize but I always am trying to improve and be better at it. Now I do coloring and think I do a fairly good job and I'm improving and will continue to improve. William Hung? No I like to think of myself as someone that made it to the Hollywood round at least.

R~

[Paul Sanderson]

Originally Posted by carynord

Man, he's giving good, solid advice. Period. Editors are not the incompetent idiots everyone takes them for. They are hired because they DO know what they are talking about. Learning to respect them would be a wise decision because they are the ones giving out jobs.

It doesn't take an art degree to be able to tell what good art versus bad art is. I'm no writer, but I sure can tell the difference between good and bad writing.

True, but there are plenty of shoddy editors out there, don't doubt that, just as there are some bad writers, bad artists, bad movie directors etc. etc. They're not all hired because they DO know what they're talking about, believe me.

[Nick Pitarra]

I think he was giving some solid advice in that article. And I agree with Jimmy and J Giar too, I'm always doing work and as I'm doing it I'm fully aware of my limitations. It gets frustrating...but I take solace in the fact that just by drawing I am learning something...and atleast theoretically getting better. I love looking at artists who are better than me, but it's a double edged sword b/c I know I'm not where I want/need to be to compete on those guys level...and it gets frustrating. I think too often when laying out pages I'll focus on my strengths trying to do the best pages possible at the time...but in doing that I'm avoiding things that give me trouble and things I need to work on to get better. Hopefully this year I can get into a life drawing class and start addressing some of the anatomy issues in my art. Anyways...yeah good article,I'd take the advice to heart.

~nick

[ehendrix]

Just read the article, which IS totally true... In defense of Mr. Forbes, however, he is a good writer... I was asked to take a gander at some of his stuff in the pipeline to get my two cents and I was very impressed by how well the words flow out of him. He has also taken a gander at some of my stuff and was able to find things in my work that I wouldn't have even considered fixing before hearing his thoughts. Can he be blunt? Of course, but just as the article implies, a lot of people do need a slap of reality from time to time... It's not to be mean, but to help those looking for help get better, point to those who don't realize it that they need to get back to the drawing board (so to speak), and make the medium, overall, better than it is today.

Now, I also don't agree that you should compare your work to other writers out there who are published. As far as scripting goes, I think a lot of the pro's get away with things we wouldn't as new writers. They can "yadda yadda" parts of scripts, allowing for a healthy dose of artistic interpretation, partially because they're working on established properties and partially because they can send an email, pick up a phone, or don't care.

Commentary finished, thanks!

[jimmybott]

ehendrix: I don't question Mr Forbes ability but his tone. In recent years I have been extremely lucky in that I communicate with a number of editors across a spectrum of publishers. If we are taking some examples from this board, you come across the Lee Nordling type who is knowledgable, concise, honest, he can deliver that much needed slap to the face, but in an inclusive and and respectful kind of way. I think the other type, which sometimes Mr Forbes falls into, deliver the similar information in an almost superior, elitist, preachy kind of manner. Often with those types of people it is the power of giving the critique rather than the results of the advice that is their driving motivation.

[ehendrix]

So noted... it's not always the message but the delivery method.

[Dave_Flora]

Haha! I was just about to post a link to this article, which has some good, generic advice ("don't suck"), but the real gem is the link to the Toth review of Steve Rude's short. Man...there's a textbook full of great stuff in what he wrote! Not only did he say what didn't work, he said why it didn't and how to improve it.
It really brings home that , particularly in short stories, there just isn't room for "half-done" panels (which appear waaay too much in my stories)..everything has to be simplified, and staged for maximum effect.

-Dave

[Scribbly]

Originally Posted by carynord

Man, he's giving good, solid advice. Period. Editors are not the incompetent idiots everyone takes them for. They are hired because they DO know what they are talking about. Learning to respect them would be a wise decision because they are the ones giving out jobs.

It doesn't take an art degree to be able to tell what good art versus bad art is. I'm no writer, but I sure can tell the difference between good and bad writing.

Thanks master Cary,
I never said that Editors are incompetent idiots. Never meant that.
And of course, they are hired because they have their skills.
Basically, for communication, coordination and organization.
A broadcaster, with PR and some writing or art degree required.
The kind of work the do can be compared with a
Production Assistant for Film, TV or animation Studio.

Their work is to manage the project and talents coordination.
So the work can be delivered in form and time.
Same with any other kind of activity who needs production & management work.


Still, they can be mediocre artists or writers.

Everybody is able to tell what good or bad art is.
Everybody in this forum or any other forum can do that.
But not everybody can say WHY.
Or marking the point in where the real problems are.

I rather to have a cranky criticism "alla" Thot, because from
there you can really know what to improve.
But that is Art direction, not Edition!
And should be art directors, who make reviews for aspiring artists,
not editors. Same for the writers.

And of course, that “every comic book reader wants to be a comic book creator.”
They are also the sustain for the comic industry.


BTW, I have always respect for the Editors.
More, when I'm working under their command.