OPERATION (diagnosis of a sick comic book)

[MARS]

While slumming in the writer's forum...

I came across a thread that made me think about the general make up of a 22 page comic.

And then i was thinking about if i could do my own books/stories ( which eventually is the plan someday)--

What would i like to eliminate from my books that are mainstays in other books?

I would get rid of the PREVIOUSLY RE-CAP thingie. ( i hate it like a passion--waste of paper IMO)

I am a fan of the splash page...Those things bug me because i feel that if you can't write a good enough tale that when i pick up a (your) book and i don't get hooked and go back binning it...

Then you failed as a writer/storyteller/creator IMO.


I dunno. Don't get me wrong I know why it exists- but i think it's redundant. I mean most novels dont start with a "previously"...I feel there has to be a better way.

I guess my bit is that if YOU could get rid of one thing in comics today what would it be?

The floor is yours.

M.

[Shishio]

I would get rid of all the idiots who expect people to work for free, (please note that I am not talking about people like T.J. May who collaborate with people, I'm talking about the people who are completely ignorant of what being an artist entails and of what it takes to make it in comics) renege on agreements, pick fights with/sabotage other creators, and otherwise hurt creators/the industry through their stupidity.

[shushubag]

You know what there's a lot of people who detest the recap. I don't, but I don't the fact that it has to take up an entire page in the comic. I remember reading Jademan comics and the recap was done on the interior of the front cover which to me was awesome. I've read articles on writers saying this was a neccesary evil for people who are coming in fresh. But I've also read different articles saying that a good writer will fill in a newcomer to a book in a subtle way that won't get in the way of the current plot. Since books now are going the way of trades collected and sold in book stores, it's easy for them to just leave out the recap.

The splash pages have nothing to do with the lack of ability to write a good story. If you're gonna get into comics you have to use all your tools. And that's what a splash page is, a tool within the story telling process. Comics are visual, you have to sell the book and these splashes may even sell the book. Say for instance someone is skimming the pages just because they're on the fence about picking up a book, the splash is a quick eye-catcher.

Novels don't need a recap because they have a whole lot more room to tell the story. Comics are so compressed and fast-paced compared to a novel it's almost like comparing apples and tampons.

[MARS]

Ok.

maybe i should re-phrase my original statement/ question to keep it to "what would you take out or add into the actual creation process of a comic book."

So i'm not really trying to get into a "i hate this" about the industry...

I strictly want to hear about things like format,quality,page length,design,cover work,style...whatever you deem changeable.

But on the note of splash pages- i'm all for it. I'm not for the insanity of so many of them in one book per say- but for dramatic effect and big scenes...

Absolutely. They are good things.


M.

[Crestmere]

I don't detest the recap page.
If I have to choose between that or awkward exposition, I'll take a recap page.

I think splash pages at the start of a comic can actually be pretty cool if you have a high concept kind of story.
Go the Silver Age route and hook people with a story about Gorilla Suicide Bombers in fin de siecle Paris or something.

[kdmelrose]

Novels don't have a recap page because they're not released in small installments. Serialized television dramas, however, usually have "previously on" and "next on" bookends.

They can serve a valuable purpose, particularly when it comes to reaching new/occasional readers or viewers or, in the case of many independent comics, jogging memories when there may have been several months between issues.

I'm a fan of the splash page, too, when it's used for dramatic effect. I use them sparingly, though. Otherwise, it's like having a massive explosion in every other scene: It's no longer special.

Starting an issue with a splash is great, if it advances the story. But it doesn't make a lot of sense to do it in every issue -- again, it loses what makes it special -- and becomes predictable, formulaic. You tie yourself down as a creator.

Generally, I prefer to build up to the splash (or two-page spread) -- to reel in the reader, then reward them with that "bang."

As for what I'd change:

The 22-page format is an economic construct, and doesn't necessarily serve the story. That said, the graphic novel format is too big for effective monthly or bi-monthly serialization. So, I'd like to see an adoption of a format somewhere in-between that is both doable for creators and affordable for readers.

What else? More experimentation with cover design. Creators like James Jean, Rian Hughes and Jock do some amazing work integrating typography and art, but beyond that there's not a lot of innovation.

[carynord]

I'd simply like to see more story packed into books. Throw out this 3-5 panel maximum and get 7-9 per page.

[dickieH8]

I too would like to see more story per issue. I also would like to see a return to exposition during the action. Now it seems like the characters talk and talk and talk for the majority of the book and then there's a little action at the end. Also, as MARS pointed out, bring back the splash! Writing in story arcs for future publication as a trade has led to the directly to the demise of the splash page in my opinion. Next, slick, glossy, paper. Get rid of it. It's hard to read and is probably driving up the cost of the book. Finally, I'd like to see a focus on the plotlines of individual books as opposed to the annual over-arching fiasco that is your Civil Wars/Infinite Countdown to who gives a Shit type marketing ploy.

Anyway that's my 2 cents.
chaz

[Gonzogoose]

I personally love the recap pages myself. I fell in love with them in the Crossgen era and I'm glad to see them used more often now.

That said, I'd like to see all ads moved to the back of the book, or even the middle as opposed to every other or every two pages.

Splash pages are great, but can be overused like anything else.

I'd like to see more story like anyone else, and while I don't think every page should have 9 panels, it would be nice if the bigger books took more advantage of the space they have and got more creative with the amount of stuff they can put in a single page.

[kdmelrose]

Originally Posted by dickieH8

Writing in story arcs for future publication as a trade has led to the directly to the demise of the splash page in my opinion.

I don't think that's true at all. Story arcs predate the trade format by quite a few years.

Instead, it's more likely that the decline of newsstand distribution, and the reliance on the direct market, brought about the end of the opening-page splash. It was a pulp-/movie serial-style device used to draw in the browser: If the cover didn't sell the kid at the local pharmacy, the "How-will-he-get-out-of-this-one?" splash did.

With pre-orders and bagged-and-boarded comics on display in comic shops, those Page 1 splashes no longer serve a practical purpose.

[Gonzogoose]

Agreed. Though couldn't it be said that maybe people are a bit timid in using the splash page because of the overwhelming amount of them that filled books from cover to cover in the 90s?

Regardless, I don't think writing for trades has anything to do with the loss of the splash page. Furthermore, people throw that term around loosely, "writing for trades" when in actuality, as Kevin said, story arcs have been around for a long time. Sure, they do fit more neatly into trades these days, but even without trades we'd still have multiple issue story arcs.

Then again, I'm personally not a fan of done-in-one type stories, so maybe I'm in the minority here.

[MARS]

Originally Posted by carynord

I'd simply like to see more story packed into books. Throw out this 3-5 panel maximum and get 7-9 per page.

Why's that?

As an artist what bothers you about a script when you a script on a page that calls for 3-5 panels?

To me it usually depends on the writer. But i'd like to know why it bothers you and then i'd like to know how you feel it helps you as an artist to go with more panels a page? There is way more to think about with page construction with more panels per page and i would think that would get insanely troubling. (with the deadline thing)

Dickie mentioned the exit of glossy paper...i agree. I remember when i picked up Brian Woods "SUPERMARKET"...I was IN love with the paper stock.

And on the "previously" ting- it seems it DOES become a potential issue during the trade process. Ed has had to make several adjustments so it seems to the BR books ( i'm thinking because of the double spread spreads)...

I see ALOT of wasted space in some books (page layout wise as well) these days. Most times i figure it's a style choice- but sometimes i keep getting the ( i'm feeling lazy) choice.

SIDENOTE one bagged comic bit:

And bagged comics IS a problem with new readership IMO. The casual comic browser does not want to walk into a shop and go thru that shit. Just create an adult reader wall and be done with it. I skip several books at my local lame ass comic shop because of it ( most Vertigo stuff, some image (shadowline i assume has adult whatever) and Markosia stuff ( which looks good on the cover but i'd never know what's inside because at times i don't want to bother to ask the dude with the attitude problem to peel back every bag so i can see.)

So before anyone goes- they do it so the kids can't see the content within- I'd say- well isn't that what the comic dude sitting there is for?

That's why the back bins are always a great time. It's on your time and not Troy's magic bucket.

And i don't mean you Wall...the Goonie one.



M.

[Barnaby]

9 panels of pages every page can make a story very dense and hard to follow... I'd go for a 5-6 panels a page on average... less than that I start to get that "90's" feeling when each page only had 3 or 4 big panels and a splash every other page to show off big boobs, big guns and big shoulder pads... I could read an entire comic book in 3 minutes back then!

[carynord]

Artist nothing! --I'm talking about it from a fan's point of view. Someone said 9 panels is too dense? That's exactly what I love about it. It used to take 20 solid minutes to read a comic, now what does it take? 10 mins if you stop and look at the scenery? And for 3 times the price no less. Rip off.

This 3 panel trend also robs us of good storytelling. Instead of sequential art we're coming dangerously close to being spot illustrators which is defeating the whole purpose of a comic.

As an artist, man, give me a good ol' fashioned plot. A single paragraph for an entire page of story. Let me break it down and use my damned ability to tell a story. Somewhere in the mid-90's writers felt they were the be all and end all of story-telling and artists got bumped down a notch. This probably had something to do with artists actually not knowing what they were doing - the 90's let in a million and one amateur pin-up artists who had no idea how to tell a story. The bar was also raised in terms of art quality and hyper-detailed art became the standard which took more time, so to save time on the back end, writers began turning in full scripts with less panels but come on... the revolution is over. Let's give some creative freedom back to the pencilers.

And by the way, J. Scott Campbell did the "previously in..." thing perfectly in Dangergirl ...in black and white on the inside front cover. BONUS! Not taking away from the story inside, it was fun and in black and white to boot!

[Gonzogoose]

3 panels, no, 9 panels, no. I agree with a happy medium in general, with the occasional 3 or 9 panel page to compliment it personally. I do agree that comics aren't meaty enough in general these days, but 9 on every page for me is a bit excessive.

As for the previously pages, I do prefer them on the inside cover, but let's face it, Marvel and DC are always going to have ads on the inside cover. Indy books are a different story.

As for black and white, again I'm in the minority I'm sure, but I widely prefer color always, though there are some exceptions, I admit, where b&w works better.