finding and hiring a freelance comics editor

[KH]

Are they available to the writers breaking in? Someone that can read a script and translate what they're reading into something visual in their head, and able to respond with concrete direction based on their interpretation of the story?

I edit for a a contracting firm, reports to the DSB/DoD, etc., and do a pretty good job of it. And I can take my experience as an editor and critique my own shit but only to a certain degree before I know for a fact that my predisposed biases towards my own work create sort of a weird conflict of interest.

DW's writer's forum here drives me a bit nutty what with the conflicting criticisms, never in depth enough criticism, or too in depth on things that are superfluous. I'd rather have a single voice of criticism and I'm willing to pay for it if I feel like it will be a worthwhile experience based on samples and a dialogue with any prospective editor.

Things I like in an editor:

1. Highlights what is done well to make weaker portions better.
2. Someone that can get beyond, "It's great" or "it sucks."
3. Won't nitpick grammar, misspellings unless of course there's a HUGE glaring mistake that the writer continues to ignore or not see after subsequent revisions.
4. Can "see" the finished page and can get in tune with the writer.
5. Can "see" the finished book.

There's more I guess but these are the most salient features. But I don't even know if editors are out there that are available to relatively unpublished comic script writers or what the going rate is.

If there were a demand out there I would love to sell my services to writers --- but not just yet. I need to do more writing and see my stuff drawn up and printed. I know I'm not quite there yet. I can't quite "see" the finished page. But hopefully there are established writers out there that can translate panel by panel descriptions and dialogue into a visualized page.

Thanks!

[sabba]

make a post in the calibraion thread aswell as join thissite . to post a job

[KH]

Originally Posted by sabba

make a post in the calibraion thread aswell as join thissite . to post a job

thanks - ummm, what's a calibraion thread ?

[W. Smith]

I believe that I am a fair editor. I have some ideas and dabble in comics too, as well as work for a fantasy based creative website as a content editor. I provide input there as well as content guidance. Maybe we could help each other out. Send me some stuff; I will take a at it. If you like my input, maybe we can do some more, if not, no loss for each other. If it works out maybe you could point some more people towards me as a resource.

Never know until we try. I believe and editor-creative team relationship is as crucial and collaborative as a writer-artist relationship and you might have to work with several until you find the most productive fit.

It is hard for me to except, but right now I find myself serving a better role as an editor than a creator. I would love to think that my stuff is the be all end all, and hopefully someday I can make it "good enough," but I really lack time to focus on critical development, where as an editor I might be able to serve a pivotal role without investing as much personal time, money and effort as I feel obligated to invest in my own work.

So far as the nitpicky stuff, I do try to point out everything, but I do not focus on the small things and forsake more important areas of content, pacing and flow.


Justin

If you like you can post something here and I will take a at it for everyone’s viewing, if not, if this is something you would rather do behind closed doors, message me here, or send me an e-mail at justinmharris@sbcglobal.net.

[W. Smith]

Originally Posted by KH

thanks - ummm, what's a calibraion thread ?

Lost in translation--collaboration.

[sabba]

sorry i am dysexic

[eltonpruitt]

Originally Posted by KH

Are they available to the writers breaking in? Someone that can read a script and translate what they're reading into something visual in their head, and able to respond with concrete direction based on their interpretation of the story?

I edit for a a contracting firm, reports to the DSB/DoD, etc., and do a pretty good job of it. And I can take my experience as an editor and critique my own shit but only to a certain degree before I know for a fact that my predisposed biases towards my own work create sort of a weird conflict of interest.

DW's writer's forum here drives me a bit nutty what with the conflicting criticisms, never in depth enough criticism, or too in depth on things that are superfluous. I'd rather have a single voice of criticism and I'm willing to pay for it if I feel like it will be a worthwhile experience based on samples and a dialogue with any prospective editor.

Things I like in an editor:

1. Highlights what is done well to make weaker portions better.
2. Someone that can get beyond, "It's great" or "it sucks."
3. Won't nitpick grammar, misspellings unless of course there's a HUGE glaring mistake that the writer continues to ignore or not see after subsequent revisions.
4. Can "see" the finished page and can get in tune with the writer.
5. Can "see" the finished book.

There's more I guess but these are the most salient features. But I don't even know if editors are out there that are available to relatively unpublished comic script writers or what the going rate is.

If there were a demand out there I would love to sell my services to writers --- but not just yet. I need to do more writing and see my stuff drawn up and printed. I know I'm not quite there yet. I can't quite "see" the finished page. But hopefully there are established writers out there that can translate panel by panel descriptions and dialogue into a visualized page.

Thanks!

I have worked with Kristen Simon, who is the editor for Jim Valentino's Shadowline imprint at Image, on a couple of stories and I highly recommend her if you want to work with someone who edits comics for a living and can help you improve your craft.

[Lee Nordling]

I looked at the list of things that you're looking for in an editor, and I think you left out the #1 priority: Identify the writer's goals and the editor's job before proceeding.

If the goal is to help guide the story to become the Citizen Kane of comics literature, well, then nitpicking the grammar and spelling would be a good thing.

If the goal is to get the script into shape and help find an artist, THEN and PROTECT and MANAGE the collaborative process, well, then that editor knows he/she shouldn't just do what the writer says because he/she says it.

Personally, I DO think a writer should want to know where his spelling and grammar suck, but I wouldn't phrase it that way, and that may not be the FIRST thing an editor needs to point out...but we're talking about WRITING.

I wouldn't trust an editor who doesn't want to see something be well-written.

Sounds like, in this case, what you might be looking for is an advisor/sounding board (which is fine), not an editor.

You can get that on the writer section here on the forum.

--Lee

[KH]

Originally Posted by Lee Nordling

I looked at the list of things that you're looking for in an editor, and I think you left out the #1 priority: Identify the writer's goals and the editor's job before proceeding.

If the goal is to help guide the story to become the Citizen Kane of comics literature, well, then nitpicking the grammar and spelling would be a good thing.

If the goal is to get the script into shape and help find an artist, THEN and PROTECT and MANAGE the collaborative process, well, then that editor knows he/she shouldn't just do what the writer says because he/she says it.

Personally, I DO think a writer should want to know where his spelling and grammar suck, but I wouldn't phrase it that way, and that may not be the FIRST thing an editor needs to point out...but we're talking about WRITING.

I wouldn't trust an editor who doesn't want to see something be well-written.

Sounds like, in this case, what you might be looking for is an advisor/sounding board (which is fine), not an editor.

You can get that on the writer section here on the forum.

--Lee

sorry---i should've been more specific: i'm looking for a substantive editor--- not a copyeditor at this stage. considering if I have to pay someone to do a job I want to focus on the things I don't feel that I can do myself. Like I said, if there's a big white elephant in the room, yeah, I'd hope anyone would point it out or just fix it.

[Lee Nordling]

If you're only concerned with that, why don't you post it on the Digital Webbing Writer Forums, then cull the advice you think is good/addresses your concerns?

If you're looking for a personal editor, somebody who'll REALLY help you, then that's a little bit like going to school, only you get to overrule the teacher about what you want to learn.

In short, if you're the one who gets to decide what is and isn't important, that's like the patient telling House, MD what to (and not to) pay attention to.

I DO understand that I'm complicating the issue here...but I'm doing it on purpose. I'm trying to point out the downside of this, and this if you ONLY want what you say you want, you can get that specific white elephant you're looking for dealt with here on DW.

Sure, there are editors who'll give you the advice you want, and they'll be quite supportive, and if your goal is soley for YOU to be happy with the finished result, that makes sense.

But if you want your finished result to sell somewhere specific, then I think you could be limiting the role of your editor too much.

Again, it comes down to establishing goals at the beginning (so the process can help the project cross the finish line in the best possible way).

If you email me at lee@the-pack.biz, I can hook you up with professional, experienced editors (and let you work out fees with them yourself)...but it's important that you rethink HOW you want the editing to proceed; I don't think you're there yet.

--Lee

[KH]

thanks for the response, it's all very helpful. i just don't understand why you think that a collective bunch of opinions from people that may or may not have paid enough attention to detail or anything would be more helpful to me making a good quality piece of comic fiction versus someone who has a vested interest in the success of the comic? someone i can sit there and argue point/counterpoint over some background nuance that needs to be suddenly cast in the spotlight.

and i seriously don't mean anything negative about the writer's forum since I love to comment on some of the projects I see on there and have learned a ton from it. I would think that to truly take something from good to polished it's going to take a dedicated eye ... or am i off track? maybe i'm thinking too much in terms of how editing works in a business, where it's a long annoying process and sometimes a test of wills between author and editor on how something should be communicated.

[W. Smith]

Lee-

Let's be honest, the writer's section is a limited resource, for several reasons (no gripes here, or criticisms, just experience):

1) Attention span-- what you post had better be attention grabbing and on the mark or real involvement will be very sparse

2) Length--what you write has to be relatively short; just I like am often too wordy with my posts, if the tale goes on too long people lose interest.

3) Quality of advice--it really depends who you catch online in the first day or so but the advice runs the gammut from single word comments to single sentence comments. Sometimes someone will find something particular they like and comment further, but the advice in the writer's forum is less specific and even more rare than in the artist forum. This is not true in every case and there are those writer's that provide insightful comments...but overall...not so much

As for editing...
KH: Maybe a post requesting a full description in the help wanted section would find you some interested parties to meet your specific needs... Options have been presented and it sounds more like you want to argue than find a solution. That doesn't seem to be a very good way to go about recruiting an editor...

[Lee Nordling]

Nope, not off-track.

It just seemed to me--just me; I could be wrong--that what you wanted from an editor may not be worth the money, or any money.

It seemed to me--again, I could be wrong--that you mostly wanted to know about the big white elephants (and not the termites that will undermine the foundation of what might be a really cool house), and the DW forum is fine for pointing out a range of stuff that can be wrong with a script.

I just spent an hour with a guy on the phone, and during part of it I explained why the four panels that he used to begin his story were more confusing than he intended, that his screenwriting style presumed action that didn't exist, that he wasn't clearly thinking of his panels as a series of uniflected frozen images that would convey to the reader what he truly intended.

Success is in the details/the nitpicky stuff.

It seems you're so confident about getting these details right on your own that getting ALL the help you might need isn't on the plate for oversight/help from an editor.

It's your call, but I think it's limiting. Maybe not. Maybe I'm just reading into it (and shuddering).

These are your goals:

1. Highlights what is done well to make weaker portions better.
2. Someone that can get beyond, "It's great" or "it sucks."
3. Won't nitpick grammar, misspellings unless of course there's a HUGE glaring mistake that the writer continues to ignore or not see after subsequent revisions.
4. Can "see" the finished page and can get in tune with the writer.
5. Can "see" the finished book.

I haven't seen them change. While I think #2 is a worthy goal, and #5 is ideal...the rest are flawed.

#1: The "tell me what is good" is fine. But that doesn't make the weaker portions better. Identifying the overall goal then pointing out how portions don't fit that goal makes it better. (I'm talking about focus here, so word choice about an editor's job is important, even if this violates #3.

#3: One word CAN change everything--I just pointed out to that same writer how one word could solve a big problem he created for himself; I'd hate to work under this restriction, and somebody who agreed to would be working with handcuffs. A writer who doesn't think he needs an editor (for this) had better be a brilliant writer, and that's not usually the case.

#4: I object to this, because if a finished page isn't in tune with the story goal, then getting in tune with the writer who wrote it is guaranteed to not help the finished book.

Again, I'm parsing words, but we're IN the word business, so I've been suggesting a better focus on the editorial assignment so you'll spend your money wisely.

I think the right editor will ALWAYS help something get better, providing the editor has the right direction/goals.

I've worked with handcuffs before; it's the opposite of fun.

I can't imagine why you wouldn't want the benefit of an editor's opinion, ESPECIALLY on grammar and misspelling, especially where the script may be a calling card in the future. Since you're probably going to be paying a flat fee (and not an hourly rate), what's to lose? You get to take credit for ALL the good stuff.

These are my random thoughts, and if I've misunderstood, sorry.

I know you're looking for help, focused help, and I'm trying to focus the nature of your assignment, which is my version of helping.

I suspect I'm not helping much, though.

It's why, in my earlier post, I recommended an advisor and not an editor, somebody who will be supportive (and not constructively critical within the overall range of an editor's normal purview).

I've tackled a wide range of topics here; feel free to ignore any that don't pertain to what you need.

We could both be pronouncing "tomatoes" differently.

--Lee

[W. Smith]

I have to agree with Lee about the little things. If they are little things, so it doesn't really take anytime to fix them or identify them, then what does it matter?

I think you are trying to say that you are looking for that and more, not simply looking for someone to dot the "t's" and cross the "i's," and I can understand that. Many writers feel overly criticized and misunderstood when an editor simply says' "Your spelling is terrible!" and fails to address the content of the story, but surely an writer would need and desire a balance of both.

Good luck.
Justin

[Lee Nordling]

I agree COMPLETELY with Justin!

I don't think editing begins and ends with grammar and spelling correction, NOR should the value of the story be judged by it.

But the value of the writing SHOULD be judged by it.

Stephen King wrote a pretty good book on writing--with one flawed perspective that isn't germane to this discussion--and he notes repeatedly that it's the execution/quality of the writing that ultimately matters.

He's right.

Nope, a misspelling in direction to the artist isn't even seen by the reader. But the tendency to misspell or use poor grammar in balloons or captions (where it isn't a reflection of the character speaking badly) just brings the overall quality of the comic down.

--Lee