taboo submission question

[Phatman]

Originally Posted by shushubag

Marc Silvestri was one of the pencillers that made X-Men what it is today.

OFF TOPIC:

Not to dis Silvestri, but are you high? Shake your '90s Image-myopia. Ever heard of any of these names: Cockrum? Claremont? Byrne? The X-men were not even an ongoing title when Cockrum and Claremont jump started the title with the revamped line-up (Storm, Cyclops, Jean Grey (as Marvel Girl), Iceman, Angel, Nightcrawler, Colossus, Sunfire, Banshee, Thunderbird, Havok, Polaris and some guy named Wolverine). Byrne took over for Cockrum and his four year run with Claremont made the X-men what they are today. Silvestri has done a great job with his company, but lets not go overboard with his nice little run on X-men which is but a small blip in Marvel history.

I will now go sit in the front of the class with my fanboy dunce cap for the remainder of class.

[Kep!]

Originally Posted by Phatman

Kep's advice is really solid and makes a lot of sense, despite editors saying to me that they don't care what you send them as long as it's good. You are going to hear a lot of different stuff from different people, but the direction things are going these days is towards the proving yourself through small press or self-publishing to show you can do the work. I'd take Kep's advice and just draw a ton of pages-for submissions, proposals, self-publishing ,etc. Keep in mind that no matter how talented you are, you have to compete with and replace somebody who is already pumping out at least a book a month of pro-level work. It's a tough road to travel no matter how you get there.

Excellent point I completely missed: NOTHING SAYS PRO LIKE PUBLISHED WORK!

You want to show you're the next god who deserves an exclusive contract? Self publish for a year or five (on time!). That will get attention better than anything else.

[heartofglitter]

Whoever suggested copying someone else's style is.. crazy.

Self publishing is a really good idea. A few friends and myself are currently collaborating on a small anthology to sell in our local area and send various places. We plan for it to be an on-going thing, and we're not doing it for money; it's for exposure and to prove that we can mainlain a good level of consistancy and meet deadlines.

[thecarrierone]

if you are going to do that then make sure that ur good and tight with the collaborators.
and that they put the same amount of work and money into the project. i just had a book like that fall through cuz one of the guys had a nervous breakdown and freaked on us... it spoiled the whole thing.

[heartofglitter]

Originally Posted by thecarrierone

if you are going to do that then make sure that ur good and tight with the collaborators.
and that they put the same amount of work and money into the project. i just had a book like that fall through cuz one of the guys had a nervous breakdown and freaked on us... it spoiled the whole thing.

I am, I grew up with my crew.
I'm sorry for your friend with a nervous breakdown; they're not exactly things you can control and they're not nice.

[JamieRoberts]

Originally Posted by Kep!

Excellent point I completely missed: NOTHING SAYS PRO LIKE PUBLISHED WORK!

You want to show you're the next god who deserves an exclusive contract? Self publish for a year or five (on time!). That will get attention better than anything else.

In agreement here. Being published seems to be working wonders for many of the guys on these very boards. FoJ can't seem to keep them artists (although each successive artist is just as awesome, of course)!

[Calloway]

Originally Posted by Kep!

Anyone suggesting you should send X-Men to Top Cow is stoned...

KNOW YOUR AUDIENCE!!!

BIG SECRET: Editors are NOT looking for a guy who can turn out the prettiest set of submission pages or have the slickest portfolio. They ARE looking for the guy who can turn out page after page, week after week, month after month.

YES! You can send your X-Men pages to TC and it might get some play...you might be brilliant...but until you show them that you have the perseverance to do it over and over they're not going to give a rat's ass (Writers, colorists, letterers, et al. this goes for you too).

So, if you want to get a JOB and PAY YOUR MORTGAGE with comics you need to show them you have the skills to do it a LOT. That being the case, if you are the guy they want, knocking out three to five pages of a Top Cow property isn't that big a deal, is it? If you can't do that in under a week, you're not going to make it past the convention floor in comics. Sad but true.

Send them Top Cow stuff, make them think "Hey, this guy knows his audience and does the work" rather than "Oh look, another wannabe."

I am not stoned and I had said this was the advice given to me by various editors and publishers including silvestri. That was the mid 90s. Before they even care if you can make deadlines they want to see that you can draw recognizable characters and good. Sure the first submission would work but like you said, it's probably a good idea to bug the crap out of them with submissions and if your second ain't top cow then they may pass. Of course if you draw as well as a charest or what not they aren't gonna care who's characters you draw, you show them you can work at that point. Todd McFarlane did this approach and though he kinda sucked as an artist but they saw improvement and that he was determined when he sent thousands of submission packages.

If you are submitting to top cow and want in, why use your x men submission anyway? You wanting to be a comic artist should tell you that you can draw 3 more pages for top cow specific.

[ShanE]

Kep makes a good point, then again he does 90% of the time (unless your giving flak about Dwarf tossing in Ireland, then he gets all crazy eyed).

Don't think of it like "bugging the schist out of them", you have to think like; "I'm giving these guys a front row seat to my development and and sending them a free subscription to my sequentials".

But I must agree mostly, do characters for that specific company. You want to give a good submission? Don't treat it like a submission (that will only give you the state of subconscious mind and slack to NOT do your best). really feel you were asked to send a submission personally, visualize it, then set out to do it.
Go ahead laugh, it works for me. Though I haven't tried to get any work with Marvel or DC since 1992.

[shushubag]

Originally Posted by Phatman

OFF TOPIC:

Not to dis Silvestri, but are you high? Shake your '90s Image-myopia. Ever heard of any of these names: Cockrum? Claremont? Byrne? The X-men were not even an ongoing title when Cockrum and Claremont jump started the title with the revamped line-up (Storm, Cyclops, Jean Grey (as Marvel Girl), Iceman, Angel, Nightcrawler, Colossus, Sunfire, Banshee, Thunderbird, Havok, Polaris and some guy named Wolverine). Byrne took over for Cockrum and his four year run with Claremont made the X-men what they are today. Silvestri has done a great job with his company, but lets not go overboard with his nice little run on X-men which is but a small blip in Marvel history.

I will now go sit in the front of the class with my fanboy dunce cap for the remainder of class.

Dude get over it the 90s happened OK! IT REALLY FUCKING HAPPENED! If you're one of the guys who totally bag on everything that happened back then then you're in denial! Image reshaped the way Marvel and DC created their books.

And for the record I know who Cockrum, Byrne, and Claremont were. In fact you the one that's high! I'm talking pencillers and you bring up Claremont, move to the back of the class. And Marc Silvestri's little blip was more than enough to get me started on the X-Men. You really gotta think- Do you think someone born ten years from now is going to know who the hell Cockrum was when they first start? Silvestri's little blip was there when I started, so guess how many other stoners started reading X-Men while he was doing his little blip.

I hate 90's bashers! Get a life!

[fluxchild]

Originally Posted by heartofglitter

I'm not sure if this thread is in the right place; but I'll post it here anyway.
I was reading over Top Cow's submission guidelines again and noticed how they only want a sequentials sent to them of already published characters.
Is this common amongst comic publishers these days? Also, the reason I posted this thread was really to ask; say I had a few X-Men pages I was really proud of and wanted to send them off to DC or Top Cow; would they be less acceptive of my submission because it featured characters of another company?
I just wanted to know everyone's experiences I guess; it seems like a really silly question but one that may make or break a portfolio viewing experience I guess.

Thanks guys for putting up with my crazyness.

I think they meant Top Cow's characters. D.C. wants the same, but they emphasize not to send any Marvel characters

[Phatman]

Originally Posted by shushubag

Dude get over it the 90s happened OK! IT REALLY FUCKING HAPPENED! If you're one of the guys who totally bag on everything that happened back then then you're in denial! Image reshaped the way Marvel and DC created their books.

No doubt Image changed a lot of things-not all for the better. My point is that Silvestri's run wasn't very important (technically late 80's into 1990) to the history of the X-Men-this isn't an opinion, but a fact. Today's Image puts out some of the best work in the industry-this wasn't the case in the early years of the company.

Originally Posted by shushabug

And for the record I know who Cockrum, Byrne, and Claremont were. In fact you the one that's high! I'm talking pencillers and you bring up Claremont, move to the back of the class.

Why? Because you don't know jack shit about the history of the comic or the artist you were referencing. You're right about Claremont not being a penciler, but he can't be left out of the discussion if you are talking about who made X-men "what they are today". Hell, at least argue that Jim Lee made an impact on the popularity of the book and I can buy it.

Originally Posted by shushabug

And Marc Silvestri's little blip was more than enough to get me started on the X-Men. You really gotta think- Do you think someone born ten years from now is going to know who the hell Cockrum was when they first start? Silvestri's little blip was there when I started, so guess how many other stoners started reading X-Men while he was doing his little blip.

It's great that he got you into comics, but let's be real about history before we throw all of these superlatives around. Again, nothing against Silvestri but, your fanlove aside, he wasn't that big of a deal on X-Men (something I don't think he gives a shit about while he counts all of his Top Cow cash). And you are right, nobody born 10 years from now may discover who Dave Cockrum or John Byrne are. However, if anything has been proven in this industry, it's that every generation of creators builds on the work of the previous one, so wether they know it or not their work will be influenced somehow by guys like Lee or Silvestri who were influenced by guys like Byrne and Cockrum who were influenced by guys like Neal Adams, John Romita, Jack Kirby and so on.

Originally Posted by shushabug

I hate 90's bashers! Get a life!

Yeah, bring back the variant foil covers and lets renumber all the comics again!

LIEFELD!LIEFELD!LIEFELD!

BURN BABY, BURN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...sorry for the derail....back to your regularly scheduled program.

[Mike225]

People should know Byrne as the guy with the big head, right?

[Justice41]

Originally Posted by heartofglitter

Yeah I figured that that was my best option. I have heaps of stories flaoting around in my head and so many of my own characters.
Thanks.

Here's a thought or an idea maybe someone better than I can execute. For all the kids outside the US or even those in the US, but in remote areas, how about setting up a service for those artists to ship their portfolios to the editors or even take them to cons for a small fee, say about the cost of shipping from the home place. What can be done is to send the scans to a person and they print them out and make packets for each company and ships them off. It would cost quite a bit to ship portfolios from Europe and Asia and Australia to so many companies. This way it only costs inside the US postal rates. It would be kinda like becoming an artists REP. My thoughts are jumbled because I just thought this up. What do youse guys think?

[shushubag]

Originally Posted by Phatman

.



Why? Because you don't know jack shit about the history of the comic or the artist you were referencing. You're right about Claremont not being a penciler, but he can't be left out of the discussion if you are talking about who made X-men "what they are today". Hell, at least argue that Jim Lee made an impact on the popularity of the book and I can buy it.



It's great that he got you into comics, but let's be real about history before we throw all of these superlatives around. Again, nothing against Silvestri but, your fanlove aside, he wasn't that big of a deal on X-Men (something I don't think he gives a shit about while he counts all of his Top Cow cash). And you are right, nobody born 10 years from now may discover who Dave Cockrum or John Byrne are. However, if anything has been proven in this industry, it's that every generation of creators builds on the work of the previous one, so wether they know it or not their work will be influenced somehow by guys like Lee or Silvestri who were influenced by guys like Byrne and Cockrum who were influenced by guys like Neal Adams, John Romita, Jack Kirby and so on.



Yeah, bring back the variant foil covers and lets renumber all the comics again!

LIEFELD!LIEFELD!LIEFELD!

BURN BABY, BURN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...sorry for the derail....back to your regularly scheduled program.

Dude! How can you possibly know what the hell I know about the history of the X-Men? Don't tell me I don't know jack shit about the history OK! What you think you're the only one who knows the history? Everything you stated is already common knowledge to people who know what you're talking about!

Don't take my words out of context! The thread starter asked about the X-Men being in a submission for Top Cow and I mentioned that Silvestri HAS something to do with their success! He was one of the pencilers for the Uncanny X-Men while Claremont was on the book! THAT MEANS he is involved in making it what it is today. Give credit to the little people too. Not Just the Cockrums and Byrnes. There's more to it than just that. It's still going on today and will keep on going for God knows how long and people will also recognize other artists who inspired them to pick up the book in the first place.

And the variant foil covers were just a sign of the fricken times dammit!

Liefeld? Geez give the guy a break. Don't you think this is old news. Anyways, love him or hate him you still can't deny his impact on the industry positive or negative. I know all the clones and shit that made Image go bad in the 90's but that was still still a remarkable time. You tell me a time not the 90s that a company unseated both DC and Marvel in sales.

I aint affraid what people say about Liefeld! He was one of the guys that got me here too.

Anyways I'll bet those variants had something to do with Jim Lees X-Men #1 which sold what 8 million? during his run on guess what THE X-MEN. To take anything away from any of the guys who had a hand while not being the numeral uno guy to go to in terms of making it what it is today, is just ignorant.

And besides his run on Wolverine should not be over looked too. And isn't Wolverine a member of the mutant group um..........THE X-Men. But then it just might be me and my lack of knowledge because I don't know jack shit about the history.

BURN WHAT?


Anyways sorry this got way off track and by now no one cares about this anyways.

[shushubag]

Originally Posted by Justice41

Here's a thought or an idea maybe someone better than I can execute. For all the kids outside the US or even those in the US, but in remote areas, how about setting up a service for those artists to ship their portfolios to the editors or even take them to cons for a small fee, say about the cost of shipping from the home place. What can be done is to send the scans to a person and they print them out and make packets for each company and ships them off. It would cost quite a bit to ship portfolios from Europe and Asia and Australia to so many companies. This way it only costs inside the US postal rates. It would be kinda like becoming an artists REP. My thoughts are jumbled because I just thought this up. What do youse guys think?

Actuall I think you're onto something here. I'd like to see something like that maybe a rep that would deal with people outside the US continentand get a percentage or some type of payment for their efforts.