Go Back   Digital Webbing Forums > Talent Engine > Creator Community

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-13-2018, 02:04 AM   #1
fourth_world
Registered User
 
fourth_world's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 21
fourth_world will become famous soon enough

Too Much Info? (Outlining Help)

Hello! It's been a while, everyone!

So I don't know if this is the right spot for this discussion (I know a mod will let me know otherwise.), but I've been toiling over a single comic project for about three years now.

I've been coming up with ideas for a short comic and it's slowly expanded from a 15-page comic to now a 40-page comic. There's a ton of emotional depth and room for character development that couldn't exist before.

The comic itself came out of a challenge to myself to write a talking heads scene that an artist would actually want to draw. It's two people at a diner breaking up over one's drug addiction from the person breaking up's POV, but it's much more complex and dramatic than just that.

I have the primary plot of what happens to the two characters at the diner. The challenge is that I have a B-plot of their relationship in flashbacks from one of their perspectives (and sell that they once loved each other), a C-plot of that character's one traumatic childhood memory that plays into both the relationship and the conversation at the diner, and miscellaneous single-panel flashbacks that add context to certain lines of dialogue. (The miscellaneous single flashbacks only happen like three or four times.)

Since I'm trying to actually write page summary outlines to help me make heads and tails with the script and I keep getting lost. I think, as you can probably agree, I have too much. However, these flashbacks are important for the story. So I feel like I need to be more selective of what moments I show, but I also don't know what I can just leave to dialogue/exposition.

I feel like I have too many separate memories and don't know which ones I should keep.

How do I decide what should make it to the script?
__________________
ANDREW LEAMON
storyTELLER | storySELLER

andrew.b.leamon@gmail.com | andrewleamon.com | Twitter: @aleams
fourth_world is offline   Reply With Quote
Connect With Facebook to "Like" This Thread

Old 09-14-2018, 09:19 AM   #2
paul brian deberry
is a MASShole
 
paul brian deberry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: just out of reach
Posts: 3,654
paul brian deberry is a splendid one to beholdpaul brian deberry is a splendid one to beholdpaul brian deberry is a splendid one to beholdpaul brian deberry is a splendid one to beholdpaul brian deberry is a splendid one to beholdpaul brian deberry is a splendid one to beholdpaul brian deberry is a splendid one to beholdpaul brian deberry is a splendid one to beholdpaul brian deberry is a splendid one to beholdpaul brian deberry is a splendid one to beholdpaul brian deberry is a splendid one to behold

It's not very scientific or helpful, but it's pretty much a gut feeling. Because you're writing the story and understand the characters best. It is really about what YOU feel fits.

Remember you're writing what you want to read.
__________________
P.B.DeBerry is a writer/letterer of words, soup enthusiast in Massachusetts with a talent for over thinking. This bio took him five hours to write. You can read more from P.B. at.. fisticuffswriting.com
paul brian deberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2018, 03:56 PM   #3
Bishop
Registered User
 
Bishop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Kholinar, Alethkar
Posts: 6,228
Bishop has much to be proud ofBishop has much to be proud ofBishop has much to be proud ofBishop has much to be proud ofBishop has much to be proud ofBishop has much to be proud ofBishop has much to be proud ofBishop has much to be proud ofBishop has much to be proud ofBishop has much to be proud ofBishop has much to be proud of

Kill your darlings.

If it doesn't drive the story forward you've got to cut it out no matter how cool or awesome you think it is.
__________________
"I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous." -Anonymous
Bishop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2018, 03:35 PM   #4
Kay
just kay
 
Kay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 38
Kay is on a distinguished road

Quote:
Originally Posted by fourth_world View Post
The comic itself came out of a challenge to myself to write a talking heads scene that an artist would actually want to draw. It's two people at a diner breaking up over one's drug addiction from the person breaking up's POV
nobody wants to draw THAT
Kay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2018, 03:44 PM   #5
B-McKinley
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Indiana
Posts: 127
B-McKinley has a spectacular aura aboutB-McKinley has a spectacular aura aboutB-McKinley has a spectacular aura about

If you haven't already, I'd check out either Shawn Coyne's Story Grid, or Andy Schmidt's Comics Experience Guide to Writing Comics. Both deal with outlining and both seem strongly influenced by Robert McKee's Story. Coyne's tools are good for analysis, because when you put your existing story in, the flaws will jump out, and you either cut that or modify it to do something useful.
B-McKinley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2018, 06:32 PM   #6
vinbat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 22
vinbat is on a distinguished road

An idea of which memories move the story forward and which ones do not (or advice on how to tell) can only be determined by seeing the particular story.

I would suggest taking out anything you think is borderline, then read the through the entire story without those. Does it still make sense? Does it still work?

Or start a fresh outline with only the extreme basics, for example: Luke is stuck on a farm - Luke meets old Jedi and learns he has the force - Luke blows up Deathstar. Then slowly build it out from there, only adding what you need to get to the next section of your story. Instead of focusing on A,B,C plots, maybe think about it in terms of acts only until you get everything nailed down?

The best way would be to get a second pair of eyes on it. Have a friend you trust to tell you the truth read it, even if they aren't writers you'll be able to learn from how they reacted. Give them the 15 page version you had and see if they understand what is going on. Give them your 40 page version and see if they are bored or got lost.

There is a reason why writers have editors, why directors usually don't edit their own movies, you get too attached to your creation. I would guess that a lot of what you feel is necessary, is not necessary.
vinbat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2018, 02:18 AM   #7
ferah11
Comic artist, Animator.
 
ferah11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Nantou, Taiwan (Formerly Dallas Texas).
Posts: 197
ferah11 has a spectacular aura aboutferah11 has a spectacular aura about

Only keep what is moving the story forward
__________________
Draw 'till the table burns!!
ferah11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2018, 02:27 PM   #8
Facundo Ezequiel
Eternal Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 35
Facundo Ezequiel is on a distinguished road

Do you really need the flashbacks? I think, in a piece like this, where the focus seems to be the dialog and the acting of the characters, that you have to suggest more than show and you need to have confidence in your artist to carry the script to fruition.

I don't know the details, but maybe you can tighten the main story a bit to make little reactions and gestures matter more, to make them have more weight in their interactions.

Also, if you have ten pages full of dialogue, a couple of pages of silence and focusing on character actions can have a huge impact.

I guess what I'm saying is that you need to decide what are the main plot points and then you just have to find the most interesting, effective way to reach there.
Facundo Ezequiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2018, 01:41 AM   #9
Scribbly
Registered User
 
Scribbly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Wicked Salem, MA
Posts: 4,953
Scribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud ofScribbly has much to be proud of

Quote:
Since I'm trying to actually write page summary outlines to help me make heads and tails with the script and I keep getting lost.
If you keep getting lost when writing your own script, just try to figure out the feelings of anyone reading it. Or trying to draw it.

Quote:
How do I decide what should make it to the script?
You are the writer, that may be your call.
Stories with flashbacks are always OK when these flashback had some meaning or are a revealing input for the story you want tell.
__________________
In Art, style is an intentional restriction.

https://www.deviantart.com/savideduardo/gallery/
Scribbly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2018, 08:38 AM   #10
Durakken
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 2
Durakken is on a distinguished road

I take it that if you expanded your script from 15 pages to 40 pages, more or less accidentally, you don't have much command of your skill and your pacing is probably not good at all. This thought is reinforced by the odd page numbers.

Ideally you should select the number of pages that you are aiming to write for and then write for that so that you can pace correctly. And you should realize that page 1 is different than page 2, because on page 2 we can see page 3, but with page 1 we see it alone. And likewise page 3 is different from page 2 and 1 because page 3 flows from page 2 unlike page 1 but page 1 and 3 have the incoming page turn where as page 2 does not.

This means that if you have the same scene but it is one page out sync your narrative feels different because you would have the same type of things happening on a page 3 as a page 2 nor a page 2 as a page 3.

As to what stays and what goes... Everything that doesn't need to be there goes and everything that is necessary stays. What defines that? The story, the narrative, and the page length. If you have someone winking and it is meant show some sort of depth to the character you might think that is incredibly important, but then again you might think it's important but not enough and you don't have room so it gets cut. That wink being there or not could give a whole different feel to the story. Your job is to decide which brings you closer to the feel you want within the allotted space. And if you want an well known example of this... "Han shot...?" You can go find full several page essays on how this one 1/2 second changes the whole being of Han Solo throughout the rest of the series. Your job is to decide. Did he shoot first? Second? Did the scene even happen? Each of these option changes the story and gives a different feel. So how do you decide... By thinking about whether something contributes to getting the reader to experience that feeling or message that you are try to provoke.
Durakken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2018, 11:24 AM   #11
maverick
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,659
maverick is just really nicemaverick is just really nicemaverick is just really nicemaverick is just really nicemaverick is just really nicemaverick is just really nice

start by writing three separate outlines, one for each plot/subplot
maverick is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
outlining, writing

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1997-2015 Digital Webbing, LLC