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#46 | |
ljamal.com
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Bull City
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L Jámal Walton LETTERER/ COLORIST/ INKER LOGO, WEB and GRAPHIC DESIGN FOR ALL YOUR WEB AND PRINT NEEDS ON FACEBOOK | PORTFOLIO | UNGOODWISE |
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#47 | |||||||
Master Lurker
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 598
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-Fred
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Fred Duran Writer, BNW and Once Upon a Time Machine. 9 out of 10 experts agree, he's much better looking online Email | Twitter Quote:
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#48 | |||||
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Wicked Salem, MA
Posts: 4,960
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What I said is that the decision about the size and format is a matter of the person who manage the project. The guy who pays. IF, he want the files to be sent in 6.875 x 10.4375 . He will get these files in this format. IF, he want something different, he will have something different.No artist will complain about doing that. Doing this is a not problem at all. No artist are charging for resizing files. No artist is charging for make every other adjustment when these are needed. Quote:
Again, this is not a letterer decision. This is not an artist decision. It is an editor decision or project manager decision. The guy who pay for the work is the one who determine what size, what format and everything else. And in what stage of the work certain things should be done. HE, and not the parts involved in the project. Quote:
You found a way of making extra money with a simple Action in photoshop Quote:
sizes and formats and nobody else in the creative team does. Not even the editors. Quote:
There are plenty of opportunities out there. Peace. |
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#49 | ||||||
Master Lurker
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Brooklyn
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And that's not the kind of decision I want to be making. So I make sure the pages of the comics I work on are right, and I ask the publisher what "right" is before anything else. Quote:
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I'm trying for option A. -Fred
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Fred Duran Writer, BNW and Once Upon a Time Machine. 9 out of 10 experts agree, he's much better looking online Email | Twitter Quote:
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#50 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Wicked Salem, MA
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Obviously, you still not getting what the point is.
I bet the experienced letterers here already did. And you can not understand THE TECHNICAL PROBLEM created when resizing a page after the pencil stage. The next person working is the inker. He/she NEED TO PRINT WHAT I SENT, so he/she can work the inks in an 11x17-artboard sheet. IF I DO THE RESIZING, at 6.875 x 10.4375 what the inker get is a file with the size of …a PRINTED COMIC BOOK. TOO SMALL FOR WORKS THE INKS.!!! If the inker magnifies the sheet to 11x17, the Page goes pixilated for him to work with. That is the reason of WHY the resizing must be done AFTER the Inks are done. After doing his work, the inker will scan again the whole page. The page will be sent to the colorist. THEN, is the moment for resizing the page. After the inks are done. Or after the colors are done. And not before. Am I clear now? Or should I repeat all again? |
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#51 |
ljamal.com
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Bull City
Posts: 10,819
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You are correct, the resizing of the page to final print size shouldn't happen until after the inks.
However, WE are talking about making sure the art has the correct bleed, trim and live area. That starts with the penciller and can be done with full size art.
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L Jámal Walton LETTERER/ COLORIST/ INKER LOGO, WEB and GRAPHIC DESIGN FOR ALL YOUR WEB AND PRINT NEEDS ON FACEBOOK | PORTFOLIO | UNGOODWISE |
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#52 |
Onomonopiaphile
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 550
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It seems like everyone is talking past everyone in this log, and the same things keep getting rehashed over and over again without any progress in the discussion.
A penciller should always do his pages at 10x15" (or a derivative of these proportions) UNLESS he is told otherwise, such as the new book Viking, or how we did Timothy and the Transgalactic Towel at 15x10". If you do any other size, you should have to go back and fix it as a penciller because you screwed up. Comics have been done at this dimension set for ages now, so it has basically become one of those "unwritten rules". If the pages are the wrong size, the person who is to blame 99.999% of the time is the penciller. If this is your first book you are working on, order the pre-lined art boards so you get an idea of how everything should be laid out, and when you get how everything should be on the page, you can start ruling out your own pages. Of all the projects I have worked on with wrongly sized pages, ALL of them were because the artist created his own pages; either on board or on paper. They tried to cut corners and save money, and they ended up wasting peoples’ time and money. When I do editing work for Z2H, the first thing I email my artists is a Photoshop template for them to print out on whatever it is they are going to draw on. Then ONLY reason I did this was because it was understood that the majority of artists we were going to be using were first time comic artists, so I cut them a bit of slack. When we got pages from the pencillers that were the wrong sizes, it was the penciller who had to go back and fix it. Either fix it in Photoshop (if you can), light box it onto a new page, or (worst case scenario) redo the page. Bottom line… it is the penciller’s responsibility to make sure the page is the right size. At no other point should the page really be resized to the proper art dimensions. If the inker tries to, he could distort the art, and not be able to render what the penciller has done. Doing it at the colorist’s stage can do the same thing. Resizing after colors is the worst… I repeat WORSE thing you can do, because you will screw up all the trappings and underprintings that are set up, and then you are really screwed. j |
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#53 |
Never Teach The Wu-Tang
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 191
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I started charging clients for raising my blood pressure.
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I L L U S T R A T I O N D E S I G N L E T T E R I N G go me | negative ink. | Two-Fisted Science! |
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#54 | ||
Master Lurker
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Brooklyn
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-Fred
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#55 |
Visionary Comics
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 85
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Resizing is just a simple action in Photoshop? Really? So if the artist drew the page with intent to bleed the artwork off all edges, and they disregard live area and trims, placing important art near every edge, Photoshop magically fixes this? It's an impressive program, to be sure, but like most other things, it's Garbage In/Garbage Out.
And merely "refusing the job" isn't going to make that job correct. The next letterer down the line is going to A) tell them the same thing or B) not say anything, do a halfass job, and end up with a halfass printed piece, like pages meant to bleed showing the dreaded "white edges", or worse yet, slicing off text balloons, characters, or something else important. And then everyone loses. As far as the blame game goes, does that really matter? All blaming does is allow someone to have a smug look on their face because THEY weren't the one to drop the ball. You can say it's the editor/project manager's fault, but if the ART is wrong, the ARTIST needs to be the one to fix it, not the man up top. Since everyone else's work is layered on top of the penciler's initial work, that's where it's most important to be correct. With that said, it's in their best interest to make sure their work is being done correctly in the first place. If they are, no one else will have any issues. Scribbly, you've already basically said that you make sure all those things are in place before you start working. Kudos to you, you're not one of the horror stories we're talking about. Lastly, I think as a comics professional of any kind, you should have working knowledge of how the production process works. If you don't, you're missing an important piece to the puzzle. I could elaborate on that, but I'm running late for work. |
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#56 | |
Writer/Letterer
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Kagoshima, Japan
Posts: 480
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I know what's going in my next contract!
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Percival Constantine - novelist, comic book writer, and letterer |
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#57 | |
I should be writing.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Philly
Posts: 906
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What I'm asking is, who's job is it to get the pages into the proper size? |
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#58 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 662
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Marvel and DC and Image are great about sending properly sized artwork.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So is this done by the artist/inker? Are the pages aligned and resized by that person, and then sent on to rest of the team? What I'm asking is, who's job is it to get the pages into the proper size? ============================== I'm not exactly sure what is your question...but generally size isn't the issue--that is, the actual size of the original art isn't important--it can be pretty much what the artist prefers..but what IS important is the dimensions of the page-artwork. By that I mean the height to width ratio. Comics pages are generally 1.5 times taller they they are wide. 10 wide by 15 tall--or 20 wide by 30 tall (mm, inches or feet)--the relationship is what's important, not the actual size of the original art. But even that's too general. If a page is intended to be full bleed, the dimensions are different from a non-bleed, or what I call a standard page dimensions. Artists are notoriously bad at math, I guess--But I don't think of it as math--I think of it as foreplanning. Plan-layout-draw the page so it looks like you expected it to look like in the final, printed comic book. Lack of foreplanning results in inset panels that are no longer inset, important art being cut off in the printing process, and other compositional errors. For instance, if an artist were hired to draw a postcard--he wouldn't draw a circular composition and expect it to fill the postcard--a postcard isn't a circle. A circular composition would be placed on the postcard with lots of extra space. Comic books in the U.S. are printed at a specific dimension--printers in the biz stick to a particular dimension. To complicate matters, printers don't all conform to the same dimension--but they are all pretty close. Pencilers MUST conform to these dimensions...IF THEY WANT THEIR ART TO PRINT-CROP CORRECTLY. If they don't care--they don't care. Seems kinda stupid to me do draw a page for 6-8 hours only to have it print all wacky-like, but--I'm not the artist... BUT--it does affect my work--that of lettering--I want my lettering to print correctly--so if some dumb-ass penciller comes along with some jack-ass layout that's not thought out in advance, it makes my work look like shit. I've gone on way too long--for a complete tutorial on what I'm talking about--I call it comics art 101--since every artist should know this before they draw their first pro page (or indy page)--I wrote a tutorial on this very matter because of my frustration with the artwork I receive on a weekly basis. I'm not even a penciller, But I learned this when was 13 yrs old and and comics fan. Bleed Specs: http://rapidshare.com/files/21978639...s_Tutorial.pdf Best, Kurt Hathaway Cartoon Balloons Studio Lettering / Logos / Fonts / Pre-Press / Page Design / Motion Graphics for Print or Web / Entertainment, Advertising or Education! Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETGevjPkZso |
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#59 |
under the radar
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Elizabethton
Posts: 659
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this is awesome. thanx for the knowledge. i have spent the last 6 or 7 months practicing on sequentials/figure drawing/backgrounds now its nice to know how to resize my 11x17 boards(also dpi) so that another artist can deal with them properly. i have a few more questions but i'll just look around on related forums around here. thanx again.
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#60 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 662
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I think my rapidshare link is dead, so...
Anyone who wants my bleed vs. live art tutorial, drop me a line at my all-new address: khathawayart@gmail.com and I'll pop it off to ya! It explains the proper way to format art for comics. Every comics artist should know it backwards and forwards. Best, Kurt Hathaway Cartoon Balloons Studio Lettering / Logos / Fonts / Pre-Press / Page Design / Motion Graphics for Print or Web / Entertainment, Advertising or Education! My AIM screen name: Kurt Hathaway contact me anytime Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETGevjPkZso |
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