Start-up to publish comics - Page 3

rmcarvalheira · 06-21-2012, 02:46 PM

That's exactly it!

The comic is produced by a professional studio.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHWolf

To summarize:

People submit their story to the site.
One comic is chosen.
That comic is somehow produced.
That comic is offered free for download on the site.

rmcarvalheira · 06-21-2012, 03:03 PM

Hi Ronald,

Thank you very much for all the feedback and suggestions. They were very helpful!
We are actually doing a beta test so that's why we are not advertising much yet, but I noticed that two of the projects were posted here.

How deep do you mean by integrating with FB? Right now people register using their Facebook account and they can easily share the stories and their activities through the website. You mean being a page inside Facebook? It may be interesting.

The problem that we are trying to solve is that there is many witters that would love to tell their stories, but cannot find artists to collaborate and don't have the money to pay professional ones. We believe these people have good stories to tell and need an easier way to get their comics in production, without the need to spend months or even years looking for artists without success.

That's why it's centered in the writing and you don't see any art. And it's not targeted in the casual reader in this phase. We want to attract people that like indie and creator owned comics and love to read new story concepts, giving their opinion and support to see the idea becoming a reality. We want to form a smaller collaborative community that likes to see ideas in this phase and participate in the creation process.

Then, once the comics are chosen and produced, we will target the more casual reader to read the stories.

Make sense?

Thanks again.

Aaron Walther · 06-21-2012, 11:10 PM

If a writer spends months or even years looking for an artist without success then he's doing it wrong.

There are lots of artists out there (on this very site even!) who are willing to work for cheap. Of course, the old adage rings true, you get what you pay for. Then again, there's no art featured on your site so I have no idea what caliber of artist will be drawing my story if I put it in your hands.

As it is, the site is only going to attract unpublished comic book writers, which is fine, except that if every member is a wanna be writer, and only members can vote on pitches, then everybody is just going to vote for their own pitch. Then it becomes a case of, whoever brings the most friends and family to the party gets to have their comic made. Then YOU get stuck with the potentiality of producing a lackluster comic just because somebody was fortunate enough to have a lot of Facebook friends.

I agree with Ron, you need to get art on your site. Preferably, you should emulate Zuda and have creative teams submit finished pages, to show the audience exactly what they're getting, but I understand that you want to provide a service that alleviates the writer from the hassle of finding an artist to work with (and I do think there's a significant amount of people who would appreciate that service). At the very least, you need to get some art involved at the pitch level.

Comics are visual. The art will make or break a book no matter what kind of writing there is.

Do you already have an art studio ready to work on the winning pitch? Are you going to seek out specific artists to fit the style of the winning pitch? Are you going to hold a similar voting process to select the artists for the winning pitches? These are important questions about the look of the final product (which is a comic book), and I don't see these questions even addressed on your site.

cj hurtt · 06-22-2012, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmcarvalheira

That's exactly it!

The comic is produced by a professional studio.

So you're providing the artist? Handy. I take it no one is going to get paid and this is purely for exposure, right? You mention a professional studio. Are they getting paid? I ask because that can have an effect on the level of quality you get. I'm really not seeing the difference between this and writers just posting in the collaborations section of DW. I like your enthusiasm, but I'm not seeing any assurance here. Just which professional studio is taking this on, for example?

rmcarvalheira · 06-22-2012, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj hurtt

So you're providing the artist? Handy. I take it no one is going to get paid and this is purely for exposure, right? You mention a professional studio. Are they getting paid? I ask because that can have an effect on the level of quality you get. I'm really not seeing the difference between this and writers just posting in the collaborations section of DW. I like your enthusiasm, but I'm not seeing any assurance here. Just which professional studio is taking this on, for example?

Actually every artist is going to get paid. We realize that the problem is exactly the fact that writers need the artists to work for free, what makes the options and quality of the work much lower.

One of the studios that we are working with:
http://quadrinhosestudio.com.br/geraldopenciller/

rmcarvalheira · 06-22-2012, 07:37 PM

Hi Aaron,

Thanks for all your thoughts and feedback.

I understand your point about the art and I agree with you. We really want to take the responsibility of finding an artist off the writer's shoulder because we believe that it's one of the causes that kill many good stories.

But we can't invest on art for every single idea that is posted, so we need to make a pre-art phase and then create some sample pages for the best ones, before deciding the big winner. What do you think?

We already have a group of artists and studios that can start working in the winning pitch. And we intend to let the author decide the best style of art with the help of the public as well.

cj hurtt · 06-23-2012, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmcarvalheira

Actually every artist is going to get paid. We realize that the problem is exactly the fact that writers need the artists to work for free, what makes the options and quality of the work much lower.

One of the studios that we are working with:
http://quadrinhosestudio.com.br/geraldopenciller/

Ok. If my script is chosen you'll pay the artist so that they will draw it. Awesome. But, you give the book away for free. How am I to generate revenue for my work?

Aaron Walther · 06-23-2012, 02:02 AM

I think a better question is, are you planning on generating revenue at all?

There's nothing on your site indicating who retains ownership of the comic. What am I sacrificing by going though you? If you're fronting money to pay for an artist, I would expect you to have a stake in the potential profits.

If you have an art studio ready to work on the winning pitches, then I suggest you put their art on your site. The selling point should not be "Get your comic made!" if should be "These guys will draw your comic!" I understand that you can't have an artist do a bunch of concept work for an unending stream of pitches, but at the very least, you should have the artists do some concept work for the last few pitches in the competition once the nominees have been whittled down a little.

Ultimately, you need to make the process of this operation much clearer. Who will be drawing the comic? Who owns the comic? What kind of, if any, potential revenue will there be? How long are these comics going to be? Are people supposed to pitch ongoing series, short stories, what are you looking for?

There's too many unanswered questions about the process and service you're trying to provide.

Scribbly · 06-23-2012, 03:03 AM

Brazilian artist Geraldo Borges is seriously considering to quit from
his well paid job at DC comics only to join this "non profit" comic's experiment.

rmcarvalheira · 06-23-2012, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scribbly

Brazilian artist Geraldo Borges is seriously considering to quit from
his well paid job at DC comics only to join this "non profit" comic's experiment.

He will not quit his job at DC. He owns a studio as well, so I'll simply hire his services.
And it's not non profit

rmcarvalheira · 06-23-2012, 04:24 PM

Hi Aaron and cj,

The reason that these information is not displayed on the website and there are so many unanswered questions is because the website is not target to writers at the moment. We are doing a closed beta test with just these 10 stories right now.

The site is aimed at readers and what they think about the pitches and the idea of choosing new stories. We are running this test with readers and if writers are interested they can send us an email and get more information.

But mainly we want to make revenue from advertising, merchandising and printed version. We just know how difficult it is to sell new comic series, so we want to build an audience first.

Since we are assuming the creation costs, we will have part in the copyrights and will share the profits with the authors as well.

Make sense?

Scribbly · 06-24-2012, 10:13 AM

Yes, it makes sense. Now, make it real.

cj hurtt · 06-25-2012, 01:17 AM

Makes total sense. I was with you right until the part where you'd have part in the copyright. Fronting the money to the artist and needing to make a profit puts you in the position of paying the writer based on a percentage of net. It's WAY easier to get a writer to work for backend net than it is to get a decent artist to. So, that makes sense. Taking a part of the IP too? I don't know. It would really depend on how your contract read, I guess. It's certainly a red flag.

Anyway, I'm sure you'll be flooded with submissions.

Aaron Walther · 06-25-2012, 03:07 AM

I don't have much of a problem with them taking a part in the copyright, assuming it's a reasonable contract, of course. If the writer wants the publisher to front all the bills, then he needs to be prepared to give something up in return, and part ownership of the IP is the only viable thing the writer has to offer.

Which is why I encourage using more art on the website. I understand that you are in beta and aren't targeting writers at the moment, but even as somebody voting on a story, I, personally, couldn't vote without knowing what the book was going to look like or how long it was going to be.

cj hurtt · 06-25-2012, 11:14 AM

What the writer is giving up in return is payment. The artist in this scenario isn't getting a backend deal. The writer is being paid a backend percentage of net. They're already having their income reduced so that the company can recoup its costs and make a profit. Which, given the marketplace and the scenario, is fair. Again, it all depends on the specifics and what percentages we're talking about here, but when someone wants to assume your copyright, you should definitely be mindful.

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06-21-2012, 03:03 PM	#32
rmcarvalheira Registered User Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 22	Hi Ronald, Thank you very much for all the feedback and suggestions. They were very helpful! We are actually doing a beta test so that's why we are not advertising much yet, but I noticed that two of the projects were posted here. How deep do you mean by integrating with FB? Right now people register using their Facebook account and they can easily share the stories and their activities through the website. You mean being a page inside Facebook? It may be interesting. The problem that we are trying to solve is that there is many witters that would love to tell their stories, but cannot find artists to collaborate and don't have the money to pay professional ones. We believe these people have good stories to tell and need an easier way to get their comics in production, without the need to spend months or even years looking for artists without success. That's why it's centered in the writing and you don't see any art. And it's not targeted in the casual reader in this phase. We want to attract people that like indie and creator owned comics and love to read new story concepts, giving their opinion and support to see the idea becoming a reality. We want to form a smaller collaborative community that likes to see ideas in this phase and participate in the creation process. Then, once the comics are chosen and produced, we will target the more casual reader to read the stories. Make sense? Thanks again.

06-21-2012, 11:10 PM	#33
Aaron Walther Bizarro Beach Head Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: St. Louis Posts: 799	If a writer spends months or even years looking for an artist without success then he's doing it wrong. There are lots of artists out there (on this very site even!) who are willing to work for cheap. Of course, the old adage rings true, you get what you pay for. Then again, there's no art featured on your site so I have no idea what caliber of artist will be drawing my story if I put it in your hands. As it is, the site is only going to attract unpublished comic book writers, which is fine, except that if every member is a wanna be writer, and only members can vote on pitches, then everybody is just going to vote for their own pitch. Then it becomes a case of, whoever brings the most friends and family to the party gets to have their comic made. Then YOU get stuck with the potentiality of producing a lackluster comic just because somebody was fortunate enough to have a lot of Facebook friends. I agree with Ron, you need to get art on your site. Preferably, you should emulate Zuda and have creative teams submit finished pages, to show the audience exactly what they're getting, but I understand that you want to provide a service that alleviates the writer from the hassle of finding an artist to work with (and I do think there's a significant amount of people who would appreciate that service). At the very least, you need to get some art involved at the pitch level. Comics are visual. The art will make or break a book no matter what kind of writing there is. Do you already have an art studio ready to work on the winning pitch? Are you going to seek out specific artists to fit the style of the winning pitch? Are you going to hold a similar voting process to select the artists for the winning pitches? These are important questions about the look of the final product (which is a comic book), and I don't see these questions even addressed on your site.

06-22-2012, 07:37 PM	#36
rmcarvalheira Registered User Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 22	Hi Aaron, Thanks for all your thoughts and feedback. I understand your point about the art and I agree with you. We really want to take the responsibility of finding an artist off the writer's shoulder because we believe that it's one of the causes that kill many good stories. But we can't invest on art for every single idea that is posted, so we need to make a pre-art phase and then create some sample pages for the best ones, before deciding the big winner. What do you think? We already have a group of artists and studios that can start working in the winning pitch. And we intend to let the author decide the best style of art with the help of the public as well.

06-23-2012, 02:02 AM	#38
Aaron Walther Bizarro Beach Head Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: St. Louis Posts: 799	I think a better question is, are you planning on generating revenue at all? There's nothing on your site indicating who retains ownership of the comic. What am I sacrificing by going though you? If you're fronting money to pay for an artist, I would expect you to have a stake in the potential profits. If you have an art studio ready to work on the winning pitches, then I suggest you put their art on your site. The selling point should not be "Get your comic made!" if should be "These guys will draw your comic!" I understand that you can't have an artist do a bunch of concept work for an unending stream of pitches, but at the very least, you should have the artists do some concept work for the last few pitches in the competition once the nominees have been whittled down a little. Ultimately, you need to make the process of this operation much clearer. Who will be drawing the comic? Who owns the comic? What kind of, if any, potential revenue will there be? How long are these comics going to be? Are people supposed to pitch ongoing series, short stories, what are you looking for? There's too many unanswered questions about the process and service you're trying to provide.

06-23-2012, 03:03 AM	#39
Scribbly Easy Reader Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Amerika Posts: 3,725	Brazilian artist Geraldo Borges is seriously considering to quit from his well paid job at DC comics only to join this "non profit" comic's experiment.

06-23-2012, 04:24 PM	#41
rmcarvalheira Registered User Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 22	Hi Aaron and cj, The reason that these information is not displayed on the website and there are so many unanswered questions is because the website is not target to writers at the moment. We are doing a closed beta test with just these 10 stories right now. The site is aimed at readers and what they think about the pitches and the idea of choosing new stories. We are running this test with readers and if writers are interested they can send us an email and get more information. But mainly we want to make revenue from advertising, merchandising and printed version. We just know how difficult it is to sell new comic series, so we want to build an audience first. Since we are assuming the creation costs, we will have part in the copyrights and will share the profits with the authors as well. Make sense?

06-24-2012, 10:13 AM	#42
Scribbly Easy Reader Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Amerika Posts: 3,725	Yes, it makes sense. Now, make it real.

06-25-2012, 01:17 AM	#43
cj hurtt Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 80	Makes total sense. I was with you right until the part where you'd have part in the copyright. Fronting the money to the artist and needing to make a profit puts you in the position of paying the writer based on a percentage of net. It's WAY easier to get a writer to work for backend net than it is to get a decent artist to. So, that makes sense. Taking a part of the IP too? I don't know. It would really depend on how your contract read, I guess. It's certainly a red flag. Anyway, I'm sure you'll be flooded with submissions.

06-25-2012, 03:07 AM	#44
Aaron Walther Bizarro Beach Head Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: St. Louis Posts: 799	I don't have much of a problem with them taking a part in the copyright, assuming it's a reasonable contract, of course. If the writer wants the publisher to front all the bills, then he needs to be prepared to give something up in return, and part ownership of the IP is the only viable thing the writer has to offer. Which is why I encourage using more art on the website. I understand that you are in beta and aren't targeting writers at the moment, but even as somebody voting on a story, I, personally, couldn't vote without knowing what the book was going to look like or how long it was going to be.

06-25-2012, 11:14 AM	#45
cj hurtt Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 80	What the writer is giving up in return is payment. The artist in this scenario isn't getting a backend deal. The writer is being paid a backend percentage of net. They're already having their income reduced so that the company can recoup its costs and make a profit. Which, given the marketplace and the scenario, is fair. Again, it all depends on the specifics and what percentages we're talking about here, but when someone wants to assume your copyright, you should definitely be mindful.