Price Ranges

[sherri rose]

Hi, how is everyone? =)

I have an opportunity to illustrate a children's book for a friend. She's going to pitch it to publishers at a writer's convention.

She's wants to pay me for it, but I'm not sure how much I should charge. I've never done this kind of illustration before. I was wondering how much you would pay someone for this kind of art, and if it's based off per page or hourly.

Thank you.

[SuperMonkey]

Hi, Sherri

I've never really dealt with children's books before, but I would advise you, above all, to try to get a royalty. Page rates are cool, and you'll probably want to ask for one of those, but in case the book hits it big and becomes the next [INSERT POPULAR CHILDREN'S BOOK HERE], you'll definitely want a cut of the bajillion dollars.

[Bishop]

It really depends on how you want to approach it. What I have done in the past was give a page rate and allow up to 3 revisions (per page) without additional charge. After the third revision I move to an hourly rate. This forces the client to be clear and comprehensive with their requirements and changes/expectations. I generally estimate the time it will take for the book, multiply by an hourly rate, and Jude by the number of pages (don't forget the cover/dust jacket if you will be doing those).

[sherri rose]

Thank you! =)
I've heard about basing prices on how much time it would take to do the art. I should probably keep better track on how much time I spend on an illustration, which is a long time. I'm a bit of a detailed freak. xD

The writer I'm working with said that someone she knew who had worked with children's books before said that pricing illustrations might be about $250 per page. I feel like charging a price like that would be too much because I'm new to doing comission work. I don't want to overcharge.

[Bishop]

A lot of that should vary based on whether or not you're going to get a royalty. If you're getting a royalty a lower page rate may be in order. However, only go with royalty if you're certain that the book will get published and make a profit. If you don't have much faith that the book will be hugely successful then satisfy yourself with a page rate that makes sense to you knowing you will not get a royalty on the back end.

[sherri rose]

I'll talk to her more about royalties. I think she's going to try to publish the book independently, but it could become a huge success.

I have another question. What would you make the overall price range?

[Bishop]

Originally Posted by sherri rose

I'll talk to her more about royalties. I think she's going to try to publish the book independently, but it could become a huge success.

I have another question. What would you make the overall price range?

That depends. How long do you think it would take you to do one page?

[sherri rose]

Originally Posted by Bishop

That depends. How long do you think it would take you to do one page?

I'm not fully sure about how exactly long it takes for me to draw one page, so I'm going to keep record of it.

I created a word document where when I start drawing, inking, and coloring a picture, I type the time I started and finished the picture. I still need to do the math on the overall time it took though. Thank you.

CSWYellokat - It's a good idea to make a dummy copy of the book. I'll have to mention it too her. I didn't think about the publishers wanting to use a different artist too. I probably better mention that to her as well. Thank you.

[Joamette Gil]

In addition to timing yourself while drawing/illustrating, I would suggest determining your hourly rate. An illustration may take you 3 hours or 10 hours, but will you be charging $12 for each hour or $25? More? Some illustrators increase in speed as they hone their craft; it wouldn't make sense for them to make less money when they're better and more experienced just because they've gotten faster. In fact, it's common to charge more than usual when the client requests an especially tight/cutting-it-close deadline. Anyway, keep in mind that illustration falls under the umbrella of skilled labor, which means, in comparison with other jobs in the economy, it is standard for you to expect well above minimum wage per hour for your effort.

[Tanja]

To help you get an estimate for flat rates, don't forget to check out the Graphic Artist's Guild Handbook, Pricing and Ethical Guidelines (called "PEGS" for short). As a self-employed illustrator, I've used it over the years to help me deal with new clients, set prices, and definitely review and create my own contracts. You can find it in any major bookstore if you want to check it out before buying, and you can order it through Amazon and elsewhere: https://www.graphicartistsguild.org/handbook/

Generally, a writer intending to self-publish won't be able to pay the higher rate an illustrator would get from a larger publisher. Just an FYI. The rates you've been provided so far are reasonable, but I wouldn't recommend royalties only in a self-publishing situation -- maybe in addition to, but not only. After you negotiate your rate, get a down-payment (say 30-50%) before you get started, and set the final payment to be paid on delivery of your art or within 30 days.

Most important though is not to do a work-for-hire (WFH) contract. You want to retain the rights to the art you create, but you want to be in a position to grant first print rights to the writer (and whatever additional rights you want to grant, for example ancillary rights to market the book on the internet, etc., as long as you approve how and where your art is posted). Because it's certainly possible that not only would you want to be able to show the illustrations in your portfolio, whether online or in print which a WFH contract might not permit; but that you might be interested in selling secondary print rights to puzzle or calendar companies, do t-shirts, etc. (That's really where PEGS comes in handy, helping you understand and negotiate grant for rights to your art).

That "Grant of Rights" becomes very important when you want to collect the final payment.

Specify that the full balance is due at completion. And it doesn’t matter if they come to get the art or not, the balance is due on that date.

DO NOT give the client finished art files until the balance is paid in full. Send low res images so they can see that it’s complete. But don’t send the hi-res images until it’s done. Your contract should spell this out so there are no surprises.

GRANT OF RIGHTS HAPPENS ONLY IF PAID ON TIME: THIS IS YOUR STRONGEST PREVENTION LANGUAGE! Make sure your proposal or agreement states something like:

“Rights to use the art are granted upon receipt of payment in full, provided that payment in full is made within thirty days of completion date. If payment is made after thirty days of completion, this proposal (or contract) is null and void and rights will not be granted without re-evaluation by the Artist and determined in writing. All payments made to Artist are non-refundable.”

Without a written grant of rights, they can’t legally use the art.

From here: http://mariabrophy.com/business-of-a...-the-cure.html

Just as an FYI, most self-published books sell less than 100 copies...just read that recently via Writers Beware ; BTW, while that site has practical information for new and established writers, it's also for people who work with writers...like illustrators for example. It's always good to have a bit of industry information.

And, here's a great article about "The Dark Art of Pricing" for freelancers that you might find inspirational.

http://www.jessicahische.is/obsessed...art-of-pricing

Also, if you're really interested in working in children's book publishing as an illustrator, I'd recommend getting involved in the Society of Children's Book Writers and Illustrators (SCBWI); it's a great resource for understanding that industry and making connections with publishers, art directors, editors, etc., that are focused on that field.

Anyways, hope that all helps, and maybe gives you something to think about.

- Tanja

[CSWYellokat]

Hi Sherri,

I just saw this thread. If your friend is pitching the book at the publisher's convention, she really probably only needs a spread and a dummy. Most publishers prefer not to have art at all in a proposal and choose their own artist. (I have a friend who is an artist who sold a manuscript she had illustrated and they hired a new artist for the illustration, discarding hers)

If she chooses to self-publish, you probably want to calculate how much would be enough to get by if there are no royalties. Royalties can be great, but are also a complete unknown. Most publishers give an advance against royalties because of that.

It would be great if the book was a huge success but royalties are mostly just icing on the cake. Make sure there is decent money up front.

[sherri rose]

Thank you for the information, Tanja! I read the articles you sent and they are very helpful. =)
I'm going to have to look for a copy of PEGS book. It sounds like it would have a lot of helpful information in it as well.