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Old 03-30-2013, 10:20 AM   #10
MBirkhofer
Decks, drums, tablets.
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,444
MBirkhofer is a jewel in the roughMBirkhofer is a jewel in the roughMBirkhofer is a jewel in the rough

Fraud is running utterly rampant on kickstarter now. Might have started well. but the conartists have noticed it.
It has no oversight, no accountability, no vetting process.
Its a free ride for scams, cons, and fraud.


Kickstarter is supposed to be funding to development new material.

If you are using it to publish previously created material. fraud.
If you are using it to fund your life. fraud.

Spaming. using false information. etc.

http://www.kickstarter.com/blog/acco...on-kickstarter
http://www.dailydot.com/business/why...er-ripe-scams/

This is utter horse shit.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...codak-volume-1
Asking 30k to print prepublished material. stretch goals that are complete fraud(and mind you, he CHANGED them, when they were even higher, and offered less rewards). where is the accountability for over funding?


This is blowing up right now. Rabbit hole on this keeps getting deeper and deeper. And really illustrates the problem. It is not viable for the average person to do this kind of investigation. Buyer beware is bullshit. Con artists know what they are doing. If Kickstarter doesn't do something to protect their "honor" soon, faith in it will plummet. as more and more highly dubious projects pass.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=528903
http://iam.yellingontheinternet.com/...g-kickstarter/

The codex and RPG both illustrate a severe problem. overfunding. What happens to that cash? And this is why its fraud.

But this kickstarter for previously created materials. you can set a goal thats low, this ensures it goes through. And with previously created contant. ZERO RISK. Its work you already have paid for in time, and possibly publication. Print and mailing fees is the only cost.
And zero commitment. You aren't actually creating anything.
Getting around "fund my life" projects are as simple as having any physical media at the end. kickstarter refuses to remove that rpg scam, becuase it promises an actaul game at the end. Well if that is so? why can't I kickstart sending my kid to bandcamp? and provide footage of the concert at the end? Seems kickstarter can't even figure out their own rules.

one of the defenses I hear for codek is "I'm giving artists money to support". uh. there is nothing in that kickstarter that says hes going to use your money to keep making more art. (especially funny when you look at his complete lack of production) that WOULD be accountability. If there was a caveat that those funds required him to to produce more work, then ok. but it doesn't. he can buy a boat, and a house. and quit working entirely with your money, since now he doesn't need to work anymore. this is quite literately the opposite of how its supposed to work. Its supposed to encourage NEW works. not pay windfalls to previously created works, so the people don't need to create new.
Its not a donation site. if people knew they are just donated to people flat out, they would not be investing in many of these projects.
And its not amazon.com. why are you selling published work on it?

As an artist I find it entirely offensive how this guy treats his fans. Asking for 700k to create 1 comic per week, for 1 year. (originally, this was 800k for 1 every other week.)


I'm sure there are many legit Kickstarters. But they are quickly becoming drowned out by the scams. Kickstarter really needs to deal with this fast. But don't seem to care.
I personally can not agree with supporting kickstarter itself in any way, as long as its policies are not changed. using it, providing funding via it. It is creating an incredibly unhealthy environment.

Leveraging fame and wealth to create successful kickstarters is a mixed bag.
on one hand, yes, its supposed to be more for those that can't get the funding through normal channels. But frankly, normal channels kindof suck. And even the "big" guys don't want to work with them. Can we really blame them for asking, why do we need Image?

Marvel, DC, Image, largely exist currently to get prime STOREFFRONT real estate. In a comic shop, getting an indie book purchased at all is difficult. and if it is purchased, its going to be displayed in some back ass shelf. not in the prime Marvel, DC areas. Getting into Image or Darkhorse is a giant step up in shelf space.
Digital age however, who cares? Shelf space is shared nearly equally. Still not a steam yet for indie love. but better then comic shops.
Connecting directly to the fans is fantastic.

I mean, even beyond that. Steam takes 20-30% from indie games. has project greenlight, workshop, and early access.
android/apple take 30% off the top of a comic sold on devices. Comixology THEN takes 50%. 35% of sale now split between publisher and creators. Really can't blame anyone for wanting to skip some of these middlemen and work directly with the fans. No matter how "rich" they are.

kickstarter takes 5% btw.


I can't say if other crowdfunding sites are more responsible. Most of the cons have been on kickstarter so far though. I think miss Wilson had an indiegogo one though?

here's monica rays indiegogo.
http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-phuzzy-book
Mostly predone work again. some updates/original work for the book.
All around seems much more ethically done however.


I wonder what the funding variance is for comics, on creating new comics, vs print runs of existing comics.
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