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Renae De Liz 03-29-2013 07:16 PM

Kickstarter 2012 Stats
 
Just came across the 2012 stats for Comics on Kickstarter and thought I'd post them here as I know there's many here who are considering a KS campaign of your own.

Projects launched 1,170

Successful projects 542

Money Pledged $9,242,233

Average books funded per month: 45 (no wonder people consider it like it's own publisher)

I didn't realize there's almost a 1 in 2 chance of success for a comics project on Kickstarter! That's pretty encouraging!

Tanja 03-29-2013 09:09 PM

Good info to know about Kickstarter! Interesting, too, because...of the ones I'm aware of (not necessarily donating to), less than half of them have been successful, or at least that's how it seemed to me. But overall, it looks like the projects actually do have pretty good odds in getting funded.

Thanks for posting, Renae. :)


"May the odds ever be in your favor...!"

russbrett 03-29-2013 10:40 PM

It's not bad odds.

But they are a little deceptive. More and more established creators are coming to Kickstarter to launch their creator owned stuff. They have a built in fan base to turn to for backers that the average indie creator doesn't have (like me).

Still, I'll take that percentage over a lower one.

Thanks, Renae.

Screwtape Jenkins 03-29-2013 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russbrett (Post 1792194)
More and more established creators are coming to Kickstarter to launch their creator owned stuff. They have a built in fan base to turn to for backers that the average indie creator doesn't have (like me).

Does that annoy anyone else? It annoys me. I see it more often with video games, where giant publishers who could raise money through more traditional means come to kickstarter for the interest-free, consequence-free money.

I feel like there's a finite supply of cash going through kickstarter and it should be reserved for people and projects that couldn't realistically raise the money elsewhere.

russbrett 03-29-2013 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Screwtape Jenkins (Post 1792195)
Does that annoy anyone else? It annoys me. I see it more often with video games, where giant publishers who could raise money through more traditional means come to kickstarter for the interest-free, consequence-free money.

I feel like there's a finite supply of cash going through kickstarter and it should be reserved for people and projects that couldn't realistically raise the money elsewhere.

I had the same reaction at first. But I don't think "there's a finite supply of cash going through kickstarter."

In late 2011, only 16% of all funders were "repeat backers" who had given to more than one project. -- "The Kickstarter Handbook: Real-Life Crowdfunding Success Stories" by Don Steinberg

Take a look at a project like the Veronica Mars movie. 63,000 backers. Do you think that project pulled $4 million worth of pledges away from other projects? Of course not. It was a built in fan base responding to a call for help. Those 63,000 people are in for that project, and then gone.

The same most likely holds true for the comic book projects. Gail Simone is not stealing potential pledges from Henchmen.

But, there is always the possibility that the people who come in for the BIG NAME, may stick around to windowshop at the other projects. They already signed up with the site and pledged some money, what's a few more bucks to another interesting project?

The real problem I have with Kickstarter and established professionals is that of course their projects are going to be more successful; so what happens is they take up the invaluable space at the top of the search page. How far down do you have to scroll (through some pretty famous people's projects) before they get to Joe Schmoe's project of passion?

I complained to Kickstarter about improving their Search features. I really hope something changes before my project goes Live.

DJ Keawekane 03-29-2013 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Screwtape Jenkins (Post 1792195)
Does that annoy anyone else? It annoys me. I see it more often with video games, where giant publishers who could raise money through more traditional means come to kickstarter for the interest-free, consequence-free money.

I feel like there's a finite supply of cash going through kickstarter and it should be reserved for people and projects that couldn't realistically raise the money elsewhere.

Dude as long as people have money Kickstarter will have money.

Renae De Liz 03-30-2013 12:00 AM

The "famous people taking all the money" is something people have been arguing about for awhile. I haven't noticed a big drop in success for smaller campaigns yet, so I think it doesn't effect things too much to have "big name" people in there. BUT I do wish they would make it so these big campaigns had their own section maybe? As it was mentioned, it can make it harder for the smaller projects to be highlighted, which isn't fair.

Personally when I see numbers bigger than 100K I just feel worry for them. Unless they've hired a crew of employees to handle the backers, they can EASILY have huge angry mobs coming at them if anything at all goes wrong.

Screwtape Jenkins 03-30-2013 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ Keawekane (Post 1792203)
Dude as long as people have money Kickstarter will have money.

See, I don't think so. I think it's only going to take one or two of the big profile, big money kickstarter projects to tank before internet crowd-sourcing becomes synonymous with internet fraud, and the money all goes away.

That won't happen because a handful of fully-funded $3000 comic books ended up tanking. But when a couple of big name producers or game designers disappear with 2-3 million dollars, I think people will get a lot more cautious and there will be a lot less money available.

And the thing is, with big movies and video games, it's going to happen. Even if it's not fraud, it's going to happen. Those are just endeavors that go massively over-budget regularly. Someone's going to burn through millions of kickstarter dollars, come back and raise millions more, burn through that, and then release a half-finished or broken product. And my fear is what will be the fate of kickstarter on that day, which is absolutely guaranteed to come.

dsartbr 03-30-2013 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Screwtape Jenkins (Post 1792209)
[...] And my fear is what will be the fate of kickstarter on that day, which is absolutely guaranteed to come.

I can speak for myself: so far I have not received my copy of Sullivan's Sluggers (I live in Brazil). There are many projects that I would have supported and have the printed issues ... but then I think: will I receive this time? I hope one day that my edition arrives.

Daniel San
http://ds.art.br/port

MBirkhofer 03-30-2013 10:20 AM

Fraud is running utterly rampant on kickstarter now. Might have started well. but the conartists have noticed it.
It has no oversight, no accountability, no vetting process.
Its a free ride for scams, cons, and fraud.


Kickstarter is supposed to be funding to development new material.

If you are using it to publish previously created material. fraud.
If you are using it to fund your life. fraud.

Spaming. using false information. etc.

http://www.kickstarter.com/blog/acco...on-kickstarter
http://www.dailydot.com/business/why...er-ripe-scams/

This is utter horse shit.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...codak-volume-1
Asking 30k to print prepublished material. stretch goals that are complete fraud(and mind you, he CHANGED them, when they were even higher, and offered less rewards). where is the accountability for over funding?


This is blowing up right now. Rabbit hole on this keeps getting deeper and deeper. And really illustrates the problem. It is not viable for the average person to do this kind of investigation. Buyer beware is bullshit. Con artists know what they are doing. If Kickstarter doesn't do something to protect their "honor" soon, faith in it will plummet. as more and more highly dubious projects pass.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=528903
http://iam.yellingontheinternet.com/...g-kickstarter/

The codex and RPG both illustrate a severe problem. overfunding. What happens to that cash? And this is why its fraud.

But this kickstarter for previously created materials. you can set a goal thats low, this ensures it goes through. And with previously created contant. ZERO RISK. Its work you already have paid for in time, and possibly publication. Print and mailing fees is the only cost.
And zero commitment. You aren't actually creating anything.
Getting around "fund my life" projects are as simple as having any physical media at the end. kickstarter refuses to remove that rpg scam, becuase it promises an actaul game at the end. Well if that is so? why can't I kickstart sending my kid to bandcamp? and provide footage of the concert at the end? Seems kickstarter can't even figure out their own rules.

one of the defenses I hear for codek is "I'm giving artists money to support". uh. there is nothing in that kickstarter that says hes going to use your money to keep making more art. (especially funny when you look at his complete lack of production) that WOULD be accountability. If there was a caveat that those funds required him to to produce more work, then ok. but it doesn't. he can buy a boat, and a house. and quit working entirely with your money, since now he doesn't need to work anymore. this is quite literately the opposite of how its supposed to work. Its supposed to encourage NEW works. not pay windfalls to previously created works, so the people don't need to create new.
Its not a donation site. if people knew they are just donated to people flat out, they would not be investing in many of these projects.
And its not amazon.com. why are you selling published work on it?

As an artist I find it entirely offensive how this guy treats his fans. Asking for 700k to create 1 comic per week, for 1 year. (originally, this was 800k for 1 every other week.)


I'm sure there are many legit Kickstarters. But they are quickly becoming drowned out by the scams. Kickstarter really needs to deal with this fast. But don't seem to care.
I personally can not agree with supporting kickstarter itself in any way, as long as its policies are not changed. using it, providing funding via it. It is creating an incredibly unhealthy environment.

Leveraging fame and wealth to create successful kickstarters is a mixed bag.
on one hand, yes, its supposed to be more for those that can't get the funding through normal channels. But frankly, normal channels kindof suck. And even the "big" guys don't want to work with them. Can we really blame them for asking, why do we need Image?

Marvel, DC, Image, largely exist currently to get prime STOREFFRONT real estate. In a comic shop, getting an indie book purchased at all is difficult. and if it is purchased, its going to be displayed in some back ass shelf. not in the prime Marvel, DC areas. Getting into Image or Darkhorse is a giant step up in shelf space.
Digital age however, who cares? Shelf space is shared nearly equally. Still not a steam yet for indie love. but better then comic shops.
Connecting directly to the fans is fantastic.

I mean, even beyond that. Steam takes 20-30% from indie games. has project greenlight, workshop, and early access.
android/apple take 30% off the top of a comic sold on devices. Comixology THEN takes 50%. 35% of sale now split between publisher and creators. Really can't blame anyone for wanting to skip some of these middlemen and work directly with the fans. No matter how "rich" they are.

kickstarter takes 5% btw.


I can't say if other crowdfunding sites are more responsible. Most of the cons have been on kickstarter so far though. I think miss Wilson had an indiegogo one though?

here's monica rays indiegogo.
http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-phuzzy-book
Mostly predone work again. some updates/original work for the book.
All around seems much more ethically done however.


I wonder what the funding variance is for comics, on creating new comics, vs print runs of existing comics.

amon 03-30-2013 02:00 PM

Kickstarter is becoming more and more an avenue for scam proliferation? Color me shocked.

Screwtape Jenkins 03-30-2013 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBirkhofer (Post 1792226)
android/apple take 30% off the top of a comic sold on devices. Comixology THEN takes 50%. 35% of sale now split between publisher and creators.

Wow, I did not know this. So if I sell a comic on comixology for a dollar, I'll just get 35 cents per issue BEFORE the publisher takes his cut?

I always thought comixology and other similar apps sort of paid apple "rent" to keep their apps up and running. I didn't know apple took a cut of every sale. And I never dreamed their cut would be thirty-freaking-percent of every sale! Those are mafia rates!

Renae De Liz 03-30-2013 03:07 PM

I appreciate the opinions on Kickstarter, guys! I know it's not for everyone (and I already KNOW you hate it Amon :laugh: ). Just to hopefully clear up a few misconceptions I see popping up from time to time:

1) Despite worries about scammers running amok (which I think is not as huge as it seems) there's still plenty of fantastic projects that get funded everyday on there. I feel like Kickstarter is new and scary and different, so people (esp. in the media) are ready to point and scream "WIIIITCH! Drown it! Drown it!" As soon as anything resembling their worries rears it's head. But you cannot deny that it's a POWERFUL option to get your book made, when you do not want to depend on a publisher (which takes a larger chunk of sales than the 8% combined rate Kickstarter and Amazon Payments take)

2) Overage Amount (I suffered from people not understanding this point) When a KS goes OVER it's amount, that overage does NOT go straight to pocket. If your amount goes over by 400%, your REWARD FULFILLMENT gets bigger by 400%. You have to pay to produce and ship 400% more rewards, which costs a LOT of money! Also a little known point, unless you've been there; but a huge increase in backers can fundamentally change how you planned on handling backers and fulfillment, which costs more money. Kickstarter is NEVER a free money for all. You have to work hard for it.

3) "Fund your life" is not allowed on Kickstarter in terms that you cannot campaign to get funding to fix your car. But hiring yourself for your creative work IS ALLOWED. That is no more "funding your life" than when a Publisher gives you a check for creative work. So calling those people frauds is undue.

4) Kickstarting finished work I can more understand having a grievance, because I believe Kickstarter was meant for projects that needed help to find completion. However even for finished projects KS offers 100% control and not having to answer to a Publisher (or give them a HUGE cut). On the flip side you have to instead answer to hundreds of people, who take little or no provocation before trying to tarnish your name. So don't think it's "easy" and "no risk". KS means putting yourself and your name out there in a risky way that can turn bad if you're not accountable (sometimes if you've done nothing wrong at all, lol!)

Thanks for the discussion, guys! :D

GDFTony 03-30-2013 03:18 PM

I don't have much experience with Kickstarter, but it's kind of a buyer beware situation. That's the way I've always taken it, same with everything else I have bought on the internet (except from amazon).

Do your research, if you feel like it's a good investment then do it. But you're donating/investing money, there's always a chance the project is going to fail everyone should know this. These people aren't milking you out of money, you actively have to choose to give it away.

I think it's a great way for indie anyone to get funding, it looks like if you use it right (start off small and build fan bases, become reliable and consistent on deliveries) there is enough forms of feedback for that positivity to spread on the internet. I think it's a great tool that kinda "levels" the playing field so to speak.

But like I said, you have to be aware theres always a risk when dealing with individuals and not established companies.

Renae De Liz 03-30-2013 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsartbr (Post 1792210)
I can speak for myself: so far I have not received my copy of Sullivan's Sluggers (I live in Brazil). There are many projects that I would have supported and have the printed issues ... but then I think: will I receive this time? I hope one day that my edition arrives.

Daniel San
http://ds.art.br/port

Yeah I read about his issues with International Shipping. :( I'm happy to see that he's trying hard to find a solution to fix the mistake and not run away from responsibility. I hope you get your book soon!

I had horrible problems with International shipping. Not only were they WAY more expensive than I thought, but I've repeatedly send Int. Books only to have them repeatedly never arrive to the backer. Or snapped up by customs. Int. Shipping is no joke.


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