The Writing Process

[The Anti-crest]

Okay, I try to read a lot about the way other people write. I guess I figure since my stories aren't as good as other peoples I must be doing something wrong. Subconciously, I mean. I know that the only way I will be a better writter is to keep at it, but I have this sort of fascination with how people write.

Let's say you are working on an important project. Not just a freewrite to get an idea out of your head but something you really want to put some effort behind, that you think people will be interested in. What do you do?

My process is simple. I take my journal out and I write down a very bland description of everything I need. Charecter names, where the story takes place and a small outline of the plot. Then it gets alittle weirder. I get online and start downloading music. I think about the music the main charecter would listen to, music that would be playing in the background if it were a movie and I burn it to an mp3 disk(since I usually spend several hours writing, the more songs the better) and I listen to the music and freewrite the stuff that doesnt pertain to the story. History about who the people are and the type of things going on in the world around them. I learned this bit from alan moore a little, he said its important to have a whole world created when you write a story, instead of just saying "This is krypton, its all green," you know the music, art and history of the place, even though most of it doesnt go into the story.

Then I write an outline of the events I want to directly happen in the story.

Then a short story following that format.

Then I just add panel layouts and decide which parts of the story are Captions, quotes or just description for the artist. Sometimes I have to delete sentences and sometimes I have to change what happens to fit a page.

But thats how I do it. It's a long process and I'm done with my first BIG script now, and already working on my next even though the hired artist hasnt completed the pages yet.

So what do you do?

[gjperch]

I think that's pretty cool that you download the soundtrack to your story. Interesting. Sometimes I can write with music, but usually I need it quiet.

My process:

Step 1: An idea strikes me.

Step 2: Brainstorm. This might be a free-writing type of scribbling on legal pads or typing out questions and answers in Word or creating a "mind map" (start with the idea in the middle of the page and then just start drawing in any connective tissue that comes to mind, linking them together as needed).

Step 3: Write out possible plots (just a few lines).

Step 4: Write the thing (tend to write the story with just a partial idea and a -feeling- as to where I want it to go). I have tried outlining before and will probably try it again. But the above is what I usually do.

[The Anti-crest]

I need music for absolutely everything.

[Lynn Lefey]

I've written two novels. One (85,000 words) came out in five weeks. The other took about three months, and wracked my brain.

I start with an idea that won't get out of my head. I heard somewhere that J. Michael Straczinsky had the entirety of Babylon 5 pop into his head while taking a shower. Either he's full of it, or he had a once-in-a-lifetime epiphony. As much as I like the tale, I have to vote for the former.

When a given idea won't leave my brain, it kind of percolates for a few months, and I occasionally run something like 'what if' trials. If this character does this, then this would logically follow. When all the major plot elements are in place, and I have a solid outline, I then start spending a lot of time with my eyes closed, sort of putting myself into the scenes, seeing, smelling, etc, the surroundings, then just type what I sense. Sometimes, when iget stuck, I lie down and nap briefly, and often find the scene playing itself out several different ways, where usually the best way will present itself.

With all this said, there are just those days when there's no muse, no inner sense of what works, and I just write, forcing through whatever's stuck. I hate those days.

Now, I want it to be known that while I said I've written two novels, I didn't say I'd written two GOOD novels. One was sent to Wizards of the Coast on spec, and having heard nothing back, I posted it free on-line at:
http://www.d20forge.com/contribution/member_contributions.html?cid=13&aid=5

The other (the one I'm much more proud of) is available POD on Amazon, under the title 'Our Mortal Days' written under the name Elizabeth Blackson.

Before those, I mostly wrote only when it struck me. Now-adays, I'm mostly working on my colorist work, with two novels stuck firmly in the going-nowhere stage.

[martin993]

Fun thread! I love hearing how other people write. Personally, I spend as much time as is humanly possible in the planning stages until I have pretty much everything mapped out plot-wise. I've got a shitty job in a supermarket so I spend all my time there thinking about stories and scribbling notes on little pieces of paper as they come to me. I don't actually sit down in front of the computer and write very often, maybe two or three times a week. I find it hard to concentrate. If I started downloading music for characters and stuff I'd never get any work done. Sometimes I do a fair bit of research if it's needed. Two of my big ideas are period pieces (WW2 and American Civil War) so I'm reading a couple of books, watching lots of movies that portray that time (Band Of Brothers rules!) and reading internet articles.

I love the plotting stage anyway, it's where everything starts to click and the story comes alive for me. It changes some during the actual writing and there are a few neat surprises but generally it's a bit of a slog.

My favourite bit is when I've been carried a bunch of scenes around in my head for weeks, maybe months, and then something just clicks in my brain, I move something around as a "What if..." and suddenly all those scraps of paper become a real story. That's the kick ass bit.

I've barely had anything published - two short stories in horror magazines - but I don't like anything I've written anyway. I always feel that the idea I'm currently writing and thinking about is my best one. I feel that my best stuff is the stuff I haven't finished yet. Keeps me at it, I guess.

[Knuckles]

Usually what happens is an idea will hit me, and that is usually in the shower. Then if I have to, which again usually happens, I will do research on it. I really do love that part of it, because I get to learn so much. Then I have to hand write everything down. I can't stand to sit at a computer and just type whatever comes to my head. Then I type it up and while typing I usually do an edit. I do another edit, then give it to my girlfriend who edits it again. Then I hand it in or pimp it. Lately, I have been doing articles for websites, which one is a regular gig. And, yes, I'm going to pimp here. The website is http://www.realsexedfacts.com/.

[Buckyrig]

Usually what happens is an idea will hit me, and that is usually in the shower.

Mostly erotica, huh?



I try all different ways. I've written overblown scripts that served as outlines...I've done outlines to script to edit to breakdown to rewrite to edit to final draft...I've broken down ahead of time by exact page count and action...

I almost never write anything down until I have my basic plotline though. The characters stop interacting in my head once I start to jot down notes.

[Knuckles]

Mostly erotica, huh?



How did you know? Are you peeping in on me?

[Awesomus Prime]

How do I write. Well it's different for almost every piece I've written but there is a sort of pattern in a way too.

First serendipity strikes me with an urge to interpret something, with my play 'Crash' (which was produced two years prior to the release of the unrelated motion picture) it was that cover of the tears for fears song from Danny Darko (an emo moment I admit) and most recently it was while rereading my thesis chapter on Grant Morrison's Vertigo Animal Man run 'Deux Ex Machina' and it's similarities with Jorge Luis Borges' work.

Second I think about while listening to music in the car. When I find a CD that gets me thinking I start carrying a notepad and pull over everytime a concept strikes me. I usually milk a CD dry and move on to another one. I've never burned out mroe than two CD's before moving out of this phase. Often the music is unrelated completely but simply sends me into that driving without thinking state and I go about my days buisiness subconsiously while plotting in my head. I'm somewhat psychotic but as of yet Ive not endangered the public.

Finally I fight with myself for a manditory procrastinatory period ranging from one week to several months and even upwards to several years before sitting down and writing the piece begining to end in normally one session. Frequently steps one and two of other projects will be going on during step three making me a joy to collaborate with (or not...).

I occasionally edit afterwards but normally only when forced with large prodding hot metal rods and bricks thrown at high velocities.

I've been known to use other methods but I'd say these are my staples.

[martin993]

Second I think about while listening to music in the car. When I find a CD that gets me thinking I start carrying a notepad and pull over everytime a concept strikes me. I usually milk a CD dry and move on to another one. I've never burned out mroe than two CD's before moving out of this phase. Often the music is unrelated completely but simply sends me into that driving without thinking state and I go about my days buisiness subconsiously while plotting in my head. I'm somewhat psychotic but as of yet Ive not endangered the public.

I seem to get a hell of a lot of ideas when I'm travelling and listening to music. I don't know why but it's awesome. Train journeys are the absolute best.

[Icaruss]

I... I'm just a complete mess. I have no plan, whatsoever. An idea just hits my head, and I go: "Yeah, that's a good idea." Then I just go with it. I sit down in my computer, and write the first couple of sentences. If those two are any good, I continue. If the next bit seems promising, I go with it. Many times I have sat in the computer with nothing but a cool scene in my head. I sometimes even play a little music, and write a sentence, then squeeze a story out of it.

Yeah, sure, when I'm into the story, I can completely see where it's going. For example, for this miniseries I'm writing, I sat down with nothing but a concept, and I have turned that concept into this epic which is trying to rip its way out of my brain. Its practically writing itself. Of course, this method can also be very bad. I mean, many times I can be very into the story, and then-- Blam.

Where am I going with this? How can I reach the place I want to reach? What the hell do I do with this character? How do I resolve this plotline? Why am I writing this?

This is called a Writer's Block, and is usually followed by the consumption of ridiculous amounts of alcohol, and the following process:


Reading Alan Moore.
Getting inspiration.
Crying yourself to sleep, when you realize that you'll never be as good as he is.


But that's just me. Besides, I'm still young. I got a lot of free time, so eventually I can get my Mojo back, and finish what I'm writing. Most of you, however, are old. Har, har.

Much love,
Icaruss

[martin993]

After I read V For Vendetta for the first time I wanted to become a plumber or an electrician. Anything but a comic book writer.

Have you read his small Writing For Comics book? It's very very small but amazingly cool. I read through it once every few months or so.

[The Anti-crest]

Writing for comics is great. Alan Moore is a mad man and super brilliant.

[JonHParrish]

I find that it helps to write it out in prose. Then it's easier for me to be descriptive and makes for a better page setup.

[Hammerix]

I start with a pathetic protagonist, three or more over conflicts, a setting I barely understand, and several unique characters.

I like basing my scripts in places I barely understand, where my imagination is free to run wild and using characters whose flaws are from within. The problem's once an idea establishes itself in my head, the characters start telling me what to do with them and the setting builds itself around them, until I drop the pen and then everything crumbles.

And I hate typing

[gjperch]

I should write mine out in prose first and then convert to script format (so as to get a good feel/flow of the story), but a) too lazy and might not get around to scripting it and b) I'm geeky enough that I'd rather see it in the finished script format (looks cool to me).

[Fred Duran]

What I do, after I get the initial "spark" that gives me the idea, is I get a notebook and write down the main premise (which is usually one, consise sentence that encompasses everything the story's about), three to five main characters, any important organizations in the story and their effects on the story world, and then I start mapping out the plot as specifically as I can without adding dialogue. Sometimes, while I'm doing this last thing, I'll reach a snag and have to go back to a previous part and edit it, or I'll think of something more practical and edit the previous part to make it work, but I'm always thinking of dialogue for the really important parts. If I think of something really killer that's going to be said by someone during a scene, I'll write it down on another page, and come back to it later. After I have the plot written out, I edit it at least twice for consistency in the story, then I break it down into pages and panels.
And sometimes, I do listen to music, hardly ever vocal and most times either slow jazz or something jumpy for those action scenes, but nothing like Anti-Crest does. That's pretty cool what you do, by the way.
Anyway, that's my take.

Fred

[jaratr]

This is only my second post on these Forums and I really like the artist POV at Digital Webbing. This is a great thread as I have a very similar question.

I'm a Graphic Designer by trade and have always had an itch to write, but I've never truly scratched it. I've got several ideas for prose (read novels and novellas) but I always seem to bog down in the writing. Lately I've been getting back into comics after a 6 year layoff. That interest has been invigorated again and has made me rethink my writing medium. Being a designer, I'm a visual person and do a good job of explaining my concepts.

In my writings I tend to sketch out a description of my characters, basic plot and then write as prose or at least a summarized prose of major arcs. I've writen out a couple of comic scripts from these to help myself get in habit of this writing. But overall this seems to be a slow way to write. I keep the scripts and descriptions concise, it's just getting to that point.


Can this style of writing work in the comics industry (assuming I write out my "prose" well ahead of time so it can be broken down to scripts)?
IF this seems like bad way, how have some of you streamlined your methods?


Thanks in advance!

[true_illusion]

I myself am one of those people that before i go to do the rwiritng i lay it all out first so i know whats where and so forth.

The current comic project i am trying to get going, i sat down and laid out the first 36 issues before i even wrote "Page One, Panel one".

I just like to know what i am writing when i write it. For granted though its all in my brain, i never seem to write anything down except reference information. But i still lay it all out ahead of time...

Also when writing a comic book i always find myself picturing in my head the panel as i describe it, visualizing the way i think my favortie illustrator would draw it...

[Lynn Lefey]

In prose, I found it easiest to work from a small piece upward. Before writing novels, I wrote about fifteen short stories (under 10,000 words), then a novella (45,000 words).

I assume, if I were to write comics, I'd do it the same way, maybe starting with a ten-page short, then try a couple issue-length stories, then map out a series.

There are strenghts and weaknesses to having a very clear breakdown before starting to write. For some stories, it's very important to have everything spelled out in great detail before beginning. I think Watchmen would be a great example. The small details must be understood before you see the first panel, otherwise the little clues are missing when you finally understand the big picture.

In some cases though, having a general idea of the direction of the story might be better, allowing for a more character-driven story. If you're entirely plot-driven, your characters act according to your plot requirement, not how they might actually act based on their character.

[Mike225]

The writing process for me consists mostly of thinking a lot. I don't mean meditation, just thought process and writing down notes. I used to do the prose thing, then convert, but I find it less time consuming to make the outline and break it down into panels.

[Hyenadoc]

I'm still adjusting from being primarily a screenwriter. IMO two very different formats -- or rather, formats just close enough to screw you up! Everytime I hear people compare comics writing to screenplay writing I just shake my head (and I felt vindicated when I finally read a comics writer who also thinks they're very different). It's sort of like doing the script and the storyboard at the same time, and it ties your brain into pretzels at first -- at least it did mine. :)

As for my process, like most people it starts with inspiration. But I usually don't make any notes. Instead I let the idea simmer for a few days, adding pieces, rejecting others, and paring it down. I find that by not making notes I'm usually left with the most memorable parts of an idea, which are almost always the strongest.

After that, I write an extremely rough page by page outline to establish pacing. I mean "rough" -- maybe a phrase per page. Then I go from there. If I'm doing a heavy dialogue page, I've found that it helps a lot to write all the dialogue first and then separate it into specific panels.

[Lovecraft13]

Words make me angry.

[The Anti-crest]

This is only my second post on these Forums and I really like the artist POV at Digital Webbing. This is a great thread as I have a very similar question.

I'm a Graphic Designer by trade and have always had an itch to write, but I've never truly scratched it. I've got several ideas for prose (read novels and novellas) but I always seem to bog down in the writing. Lately I've been getting back into comics after a 6 year layoff. That interest has been invigorated again and has made me rethink my writing medium. Being a designer, I'm a visual person and do a good job of explaining my concepts.

In my writings I tend to sketch out a description of my characters, basic plot and then write as prose or at least a summarized prose of major arcs. I've writen out a couple of comic scripts from these to help myself get in habit of this writing. But overall this seems to be a slow way to write. I keep the scripts and descriptions concise, it's just getting to that point.


Can this style of writing work in the comics industry (assuming I write out my "prose" well ahead of time so it can be broken down to scripts)?
IF this seems like bad way, how have some of you streamlined your methods?


Thanks in advance!

if you go back and read my post you'll see that I do a very long way about to my final story. I prefer this because the more translations I go through from version to version(note book to comp, comp to notebook in script format, script from notebook to script on comp) gives me more chances to catch mistakes.

But thats mostly on serious projects.

[hithereeveryone]

Like a lot of folks I do stuff in at least hacked out prose. I tend to start prose with the dialog and fill, but it depends on the scene, really.

Anything that i've tried that has been overly long always gets screwed up along the way, so I only have a general idea of the direction. Once the story is in place, I do a quick format, knowing that an artist will interpret things as he damned well pleases and you just have to give some guidance for pacing.

I also don't have a formal draft regimine. I just go through a piece in passes. At this point I have about two dozen different things I can work on and I put in time on whatever I feel like working on at the time. Since I work from a skeleton a lot of times, I can work on the center of a big project just fine.

Oh and one big hint for people doing long prose work or big projects: Writing is really boring. Lots of time staring at text. My general way of doing things is to splurge out about 6000 words as fast as I can an spend time later refining it.

The biggest thing is you have to find the way that you write. Iv'e found that disconnecting myself from the net helps to focus the mind. I can't write anything to music. Other people aren't on that train and that's cool. Figure out how to get comfortable, becasue you are going to be sitting there typing for a really long time.

Peace

HI

[The Anti-crest]

Like a lot of folks I do stuff in at least hacked out prose. I tend to start prose with the dialog and fill, but it depends on the scene, really.

Anything that i've tried that has been overly long always gets screwed up along the way, so I only have a general idea of the direction. Once the story is in place, I do a quick format, knowing that an artist will interpret things as he damned well pleases and you just have to give some guidance for pacing.

I also don't have a formal draft regimine. I just go through a piece in passes. At this point I have about two dozen different things I can work on and I put in time on whatever I feel like working on at the time. Since I work from a skeleton a lot of times, I can work on the center of a big project just fine.

Oh and one big hint for people doing long prose work or big projects: Writing is really boring. Lots of time staring at text. My general way of doing things is to splurge out about 6000 words as fast as I can an spend time later refining it.

The biggest thing is you have to find the way that you write. Iv'e found that disconnecting myself from the net helps to focus the mind. I can't write anything to music. Other people aren't on that train and that's cool. Figure out how to get comfortable, becasue you are going to be sitting there typing for a really long time.

Peace

HI

Thats the truth of it. There are so many different ways to write, and so many different things to write. Thats why this is my dream. I mean, no other job has such freedom. :banana:

[Buckyrig]

Sometimes I just do mescaline until the homeless guys make sense and I write down what they say on my arm.

[Bob the Fish]

1) drink coffee

2) type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type

3) type

4) read what I just typed

5) type type type

6) eat

7) sleep

8) goto 1


I honestly don't have a concrete process as such. These things just happen.


(optional step: put on some dub reggae in the background, preferably Lee Perry or Mikey Dread)

[jaratr]

if you go back and read my post you'll see that I do a very long way about to my final story...But thats mostly on serious projects.

I saw that and didn't know if you were looking for input on your process or not. You seem to write similar to me. Though I never do outlines. I write out descripitons of characters, major scenes, setting and such. Then I either flesh those out to chunks of prose or start writing "from the beginning" as if I were writing a novel.

How long does it take you to get from prose to finished script, for say one comic/storyline?

[hithereeveryone]

Thats the truth of it. There are so many different ways to write, and so many different things to write. Thats why this is my dream. I mean, no other job has such freedom. :banana:
OOOoooohhhh! careful what you wish for, there. You replace enslavement to the boss to ensalvement to your art. The art then must be what keeps you and feeds you.

If writing were your job you would find some way of cranking it out which isn't exactly freedom. Freedom of approach, certianly, but you'd better be busting your ass however you do it, or you won't be doing it long.

Sorry to sneeze on your sunshine.

Peace.

-HI

[darkwriter]

I get an idea and I start typing

[The Anti-crest]

I saw that and didn't know if you were looking for input on your process or not. You seem to write similar to me. Though I never do outlines. I write out descripitons of characters, major scenes, setting and such. Then I either flesh those out to chunks of prose or start writing "from the beginning" as if I were writing a novel.

How long does it take you to get from prose to finished script, for say one comic/storyline?


On the biggest project I've started working on so far, I wrote a prose story, which took about 6 hours to write straight. With a few pauses(food, restroom, and to burn a new cd) I put it away for a week and did part two, and then three, and another week and I'm at part four. That means so far this BIG story(which is a huge kind of epic story, mind you) its been a month so far and I am no where near finished.

With a 24 page script, it took me about 2 weeks. But I was working on a faster pace.

With a small 5 page story it takes a couple of hours.

I'm not looking for input, i just like to talk to people about things like this. See what they are doing and compare. I dont know why.

[The Anti-crest]

OOOoooohhhh! careful what you wish for, there. You replace enslavement to the boss to ensalvement to your art. The art then must be what keeps you and feeds you.

If writing were your job you would find some way of cranking it out which isn't exactly freedom. Freedom of approach, certianly, but you'd better be busting your ass however you do it, or you won't be doing it long.

Sorry to sneeze on your sunshine.

Peace.

-HI

Oh, I understand all that. I just meant freedom from the mundane. I hate waking up at 4 in the morning, driving for an hour in traffic to get to a job I hate, run by a company that doesn't even acknowledge me and getting paid shit to do it. I hate working on other peoples time, with other peoples best interest at heart.

I realize, that there are deadlines in the writing world, but compared to my regular "9 to 5"(more like 6am to 5pm) this writing thing is wonderful.

[The Scribe]

I agree with Anti-crest.

Working at a job you hate for someone who doesn't care about you or the work you do is like being in prison.

I don't like the sound of "deadline" but it's better than working in a meaningless job for basically no pay and making someone else rich.

[The Anti-crest]

I agree with Anti-crest.

Working at a job you hate for someone who doesn't care about you or the work you do is like being in prison.

I don't like the sound of "deadline" but it's better than working in a meaningless job for basically no pay and making someone else rich.


On the nose man, on the nose.

[The Scribe]

On the nose man, on the nose.

Thanks. ;)

I can't keep working the jobs I have been working forever.

It's becomes more difficult to pull myself out of bed.

I'm working on something for Erik Larsen, he doesn't know about.

Then I'm going to work more on my Falcon mini-series, that will hopefully go monthly.

Then I'm thinking possibly Alpha Flight.

[The Anti-crest]

I've got two stories I want to publish more than anything right now. One of them is a one shot, the other is a mini series. The one shot could expand into a mini series though if it sells. It's my practice run through the whole process to try and get out there.

And tons of short stories aching to find a home. Some day.

[chrisjohnwagner]

I just started this so I am still ironing out a process, but I like to get an idea. Then I will write down a real brief outline of a story to see if it can actually be a story. Next, I will visualize the story as a comic book. I can see exactly what I want (damn wish I could draw). Then I try to convey that in words. This is the process I would really like to get better at.

[Troy Wall]

I have good friend that I've known since I was a wee lad. He's a novelist, and his method consists of writing mass amounts one day and then focusing only on editing the next day.

I also use this method. It can be thought of as scaffolding your second draft right along side your first draft.

[ampersand]

I couldn't do that -- I need to get everything down first and worry about the second draft after I've attacked it full-on with a red pen.

I like to get everything down first in note form. I have a little book. I go on old man walks to get the imagination going and write them down as the ideas come.

[AthenaRose]

It really depends on the story, but in general, an idea will suddenly grab me and won't let go. On a number of occasions, the 'idea' has been the main character. If it (or they) hangs around long enough, I'll think about it on my walk to and from work - the supporting characters, the world they live in, a plot outline. If it's got that far, I will usually try to pin the plot down on the computer. I've tried writing character outlines, world history, different cultures and so on, as well, but I've never got too far with that. Usually, it's all up in my head.

In other cases, I just sit and type, and see what comes out.

For prose, the scenes play out in my head like a movie, and sometimes my fingers have a hard job keeping up with the projectionist in my head! And then there are the occasions when the projection equipment breaks down - I know what needs to happen, but I can't 'see' how it happens.

For comic scripts, it's a case of choosing where to 'freeze frame' the movie, thinking about the 'camera' angle, the characters that are 'in shot' and so on.

My main struggle is dialogue. I can usually produce dialogue that sounds fairly natural, but all my characters sound the same. I've been given some tips on tackling that, lately, but have yet to put them into practice.