Layer Method on Balloon Tales site

[eltonpruitt]

Do any of you guys use the layer method they talk about on Balloon Tales at this link:

Lettering: the Layer Method (http://www.balloontales.com/tips/layer_method/index.html)

Thanks for any insight you can offer on whether this is or is not a good method to use!

Elton

[Jason Arthur]

No, I find it too time consuming. With Illustrator 10 and above you can do pretty much anything you want without having it be so complicated. I think that the Layer Method is kind of a look at how some people do it (or used to do it), but I see no real need to do it that way myself.

cheers,

-- J

[eltonpruitt]

If you have already merged the balloon and tail and then find you need to expand the balloon or tweak the tail, can you un-merge them or do you have to just start over on that one?

thanks,
Elton

[Jason Arthur]

Yeah, you can just use the direct selection tool (press the letter A on your keyboard to automatically activate the tool). Just click inside the balloon (or the tail) and use can adjust it in a number of different ways without having to un-merge items.

cheers,

-- J

[Clem Robins]

i have done it both ways. Marvel didn't upgrade past Illusrator 9 until this past January, and as a result, all lettering for them had to be done in this layered fashion.

once you get used to it, it is as fast or faster than doing balloons and pointers on just one layer.

my problem with it is more stylistic than pragmatic. the technique makes it difficult to play with a balloon's line weight, or to permit a partial outline to overlap a connecting balloon.

both DC and (by way of Virtual Calligraphy) Marvel use the technique extensively. i sat with Kenny Lopez at DC and watched him demonstrate how he uses it. when you know what you're doing, you can work with absolutely blinding speed – if you don't mind the limitations the technique imposes on you.

[MikeStorniolo]

I use A layer method, just not as detailed as ComiCraft's is. Mine goes...

SFX/Titles
Text
Balloons
Artwork

I usually lock my artwork layer, and this way I can goof around with everything right over the artwork and switch back and forth... gets the job done for me.

[Clem Robins]

the "layer method" actually means doing your balloons on two layers, so what you're describing is not the layer method.

actually, the Comicraft tutorial is not the method DC uses. instead of using a double-thick stroke for the bottom layer of balloons, DC uses an offset path. they also put their pointers (which are all pre-made, by the way) on two separate layers, as well.

they do some nice work there, particularly Rob Leigh, but the method's not my cup of tea.

doing the balloons on just one layer makes them easier to manipulate, and i like to drag nodes around to funk up the balloon shapes a little bit.

[Kep!]

I'm with Clem here. I've tried the layer method and found it limitted the look I like way too much. Also, masking, evelope distortions and other "tricks" usually are only appliable to a single a layer...so, if you're like me and like to bust panel boarders and use SFX within the ballons and have the balloons be on fire, it just doesn't play. But, for MOST work, it's fine...if you can get a great handle on it. For me, I'll stick to my merges.

[Kel Nuttall]

For me, I'll stick to my merges.
Me too!

[Amadarwin]

I like to merge.

All...night...long...

[cyxodus]

I use merge 99% of the time but use the layer method on special cases.

[cyxodus]

I like to merge.

All...night...long...
Get a girlfriend. :nyah:

[Amadarwin]

Get a girlfriend. :nyah:
she hates it when I merge.

[F!NCH]

Yeah, because you can't remove your tail from her balloon.

[Amadarwin]

I just assumed it was the varied stroke...

[JasonM]

Wow, the lettering forum is like I imagined the chess club in highschool would be! :har:

[JacoNB]

Wow, the lettering forum is like I imagined the chess club in highschool would be! :har:

HEY!! That guy doesn't know the secret handshake!! GET HIM!!

:D

[Jason Arthur]

Wow, the lettering forum is like I imagined the chess club in highschool would be! :har:

Hah! "Imagined"...right!

:nyah:

-- J

[cyxodus]

:slap: :mad: :mad: :mad: :w00t:

[Kep!]

I suppose it was destiny that I'd be here...I was the president of the chess club. Sigh.

[charlesp]

I suppose it was destiny that I'd be here...I was the president of the chess club. Sigh.

http://www.luminomagazine.com/2004.10/spotlight/nerds/images/ogre/ogre2.jpg
NERD!

[Comics Commando]

I just adopted the layer method a few months ago and I've gotten quite used to it. I use it so I don't have to recreate balloons if I want to move the tail for some reason.

Kurt Hathaway
Cartoon Balloons Studios
Lettering / Logos / Fonts

[Jason Arthur]

I just adopted the layer method a few months ago and I've gotten quite used to it. I use it so I don't have to recreate balloons if I want to move the tail for some reason.

Kurt Hathaway
Cartoon Balloons Studios
Lettering / Logos / Fonts

I can move the tail without having to recreate anything. Just use the direct selection tool. There, now the layer method is officially obsolete right? :p

cheers,

-- J

[Clem Robins]

that's if you're on OSX. if you're not, and are using Illustrator 9, then kurt's boggle is a valid one.

and upgrading to Illustrator 10 is somewhat problematic right now; i don't think adobe sells it anymore; they certainly will not provide tech support for it. in the meantime, DC and a lot of other clients can't deal with CS files. so you're sorta in the Phantom Zone right now, kurt. but if you're happy with the layered method anyway, i don't see you having much of a problem.

supposedly a balloon's outline in the layered method is a little more varied and interesting than when the whole balloon and pointer are on one layer. however, there are ways around this.

marvel, officially, has informed me that they are cool with non-layered balloon files.

[eltonpruitt]

When I do Pathfinder > Merge, I lose the stroke and have to reapply it to the merged object. Anyone run into this and know how to prevent it?

And after I merge, all the direct selection tool will do is move the object around. I can't adjust the balloon or tail.

Maybe I am just an Illustrator idiot though?

[Jason Arthur]

When I do Pathfinder > Merge, I lose the stroke and have to reapply it to the merged object. Anyone run into this and know how to prevent it?

Hmmm, not sure, but to prevent this from happening (and to get a few other steps out of the way at the same time) you should create an ACTION that will MERGE, set the color of the fill and stroke, set the weight of the stroke, apply overprint black and then deselect itself.

Check your manual (or the Help feature in the Illustrator menu) to see how to make Actions. They'll save you loads of time.

And after I merge, all the direct selection tool will do is move the object around. I can't adjust the balloon or tail.

Each tail will have at least three selectable points (nodes) which you can click on with the Direct Selection Tool. You'll notice that when you move over a selectable node with the DST you'll see a white dot appear. Click on that and now you can adjust it. Maybe Peyton can make a tutorial...I'll ask him when he gets back from vacation.

Maybe I am just an Illustrator idiot though?

Nah, we're all new to the process at some point and if you don't ask these questions then you'll never know the answers. Keep em coming.

-- J

[Amadarwin]

When I do Pathfinder > Merge, I lose the stroke and have to reapply it to the merged object. Anyone run into this and know how to prevent it?
when that happened, I found it was because the stroke of my balloon and pen were not the same and it usually defaulted to the tail which was a smaller stroke (at the default settings).

There's a few ways to fix it, the easiest is to select the balloon, then select the pen tool - it will use the same stroke for the pen as the balloon. The other way is to manually adjust.

The BEST way would probably be to create some sorta profile to have the default stroke be whatever you want it to be so that they'll all be uniform.

[cyxodus]

Each tail will have at least three selectable points (nodes) which you can click on with the Direct Selection Tool. You'll notice that when you move over a selectable node with the DST you'll see a white dot appear. Click on that and now you can adjust it. Maybe Peyton can make a tutorial...I'll ask him when he gets back from vacation.
I'll work on it this weekend. :happy:

[JasonM]

Hah! "Imagined"...right!

:nyah:

-- J

You like that? I made sure to add that in! I'm not going to be THAT easy lol!

[eDuke]

when that happened, I found it was because the stroke of my balloon and pen were not the same and it usually defaulted to the tail which was a smaller stroke (at the default settings).

There's a few ways to fix it, the easiest is to select the balloon, then select the pen tool - it will use the same stroke for the pen as the balloon. The other way is to manually adjust.

The BEST way would probably be to create some sorta profile to have the default stroke be whatever you want it to be so that they'll all be uniform.
One way would be to ensure the stroke you want is on the top of everything else. I think Illustrator adapts of top item. Just going by memory, I don't merge balloons too often. It's faster for me to do the layer method, especially when it comes to making quick changes down the road.

[eltonpruitt]

Amadarwin, you solved my "merge and lose the stroke" problem for me -- when I make sure the tail and balloon have the same stroke, that does not happen. Thanks!

Jason, I realized that I needed to click within the tail or balloon first, then the Direct Selection Tool works as you described, so thanks for steering me in the right direction.

After spending more time working on my lettering, I personally find it easier to not use that Comicraft layer method and just have the balloon and tail be on the same layer. Now that I know how to do it, it's easy enough to manipulate them post-merge if I need to.