Taboo subject matter

[Ballerina]

So I find myself writing this story about an unusual ( or usual) family, and before I know it the story takes a drastic turn from what I had planned on writing. It suddenly went from a murder mystery to in a matter of sentences. The X's are for the taboo subjects of incest and child . Now every time I write something I plan to have it published.

So my question is, does anybody know if it is possible or even legal to write about these subjects if it is graphic in nature? what if it is accompanied by art work? Can drawings be illegal?

[Fred Duran]

I highly doubt that drawings can be illegal, because saying a work of art or literature is illegal is basically tearing the First Amendment to pieces (assuming you live in the United States). You'd probably get some angry emails and a few congressmen pissed off (again, assuming you live in the US), but you wouldn't get arrested.
As for the publishing part, you'd have to find a publisher that publishes that type of mature, graphic stuff, because not everyone's willing to publish something that would get all the super-religious people buzzing and generating bad press, you know?
All in all, as long as the book's got a nice clear warning of explicit content and is sold in the "adult" section of the comic shop, you should be okay.

Hope that helps

Fred

[Buckyrig]

Whether it will be attacked or not is sometimes separate from whether or not it can be. It may also depend on your depictions. If you were to depict underage sex, you may be treading into a problem area. Adult actors are not even allowed to portray characters who are under 18 in pornography. I would check with a lawyer to be sure. Of course, no real children would be exploited in a comic book, but you may have a minefield there.

[jrod]

B -

I'd check out this week's LITG (http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/?column=13) and scroll down to the 'Back to the Girls' piece. Rich interviews several comic pros and asks them what they feel about Alan Moore's upcoming LOST GIRLS which features graphic depictions of children having sex with each other and adults. It's an interesting read and seems to fit what you're asking about.

[Selko]

Inferences are your friend when dealing with taboo subjects.

[Peedee]

I highly doubt that drawings can be illegal, because saying a work of art or literature is illegal is basically tearing the First Amendment to pieces (assuming you live in the United States). You'd probably get some angry emails and a few congressmen pissed off (again, assuming you live in the US), but you wouldn't get arrested.


Hah. We should be so lucky as to live in a world that works so comfortably as that.

Go over to the CBLDF.org (Comic Book Legal Defense Fund) page and read some stories, which I'm pretty sure they have somewhere. If the First Amendment were considered to be something more than a 'hazy problem area' by a lot of The Powers That Be (what a terribly paranoid phrase that is) then something like the CBLDF wouldn't even need to exist.

But don't censor yourself. God knows, there's plenty of people out there willing to do it for you. Just be very knowledgeable and aware of where you're going, and then keep walking.

[RavenBlakk]

Is it legal to write about such subjects? Technically, yes. Nabokov wrote the oft-mentioned Lolita, and after reading the information on Alan Moore (not to mention Crumb), it seems such work can even find a publisher. But what you have to distinguish is the difference between legal and marketable.

Such work skirts the decency lines of the First Amendment, but, even if you find some publisher willing to take the risk on your work, you run the risk of no one buying it. Taking chances and pushing the envelope is great, but if no one buys your work, you can often be worse off than if you never published at all. Your reputation can be blackened in publishing circles, and you may never get another publisher to even read your work ever again.

Legal? Yes. Marketable? Hmmm... be very careful with that one.

[Peedee]

Reputation is a big part of it, I think. I mean, if Alan Moore publishes something controversial and taboo, I'll still read it because I know that somewhere in there, I'm assured a really great story. I suppose if you're name is Robert Crumb, you can just make a career out of it... :)

Just be aware of the difficulties of what you're writing. I've written things where I'm aware as I'm working on it that I'm perilously close to scaring my audience away (not necessarily out of fear. Disgust, decency, et cetera). The thing to do is to make sure it's necessary for the story and won't blacken the rest of your tale...and also, be aware of the problem and be willing to work your reader into it. I gently escalate things up to the point where I can write the scene my readers won't enjoy, and know that if they're still reading, they'll get through it.

To simplify it, something Neil Gaiman said is useful. In the first sentence of American Gods, he swore. In the first chapter of American Gods, he had a weird-graphic sex scene. That way, anyone who couldn't handle the rest of the book could happily get out right then and there without wasting time or getting invested. If it works, this is not a shabby idea. :)

[Ballerina]

Well, I would hate to see it in the " Adult" section cosidering my target audience are teenage girls. Although it does have graphic sex, I wouldn't really consider it porn . The story supports the sex scenes. It makes them very relevent.

As far as it being marketable, I don't think that would be a problem either. This story is being told from the eyes of a girl who has been raped and molested. It is graphic to get an idea about how she feels about it, so she describes it in detail. It's more about abuse than it is about lust. And i'm quite sure kiddy porn is never going to go out of style. There will always be an audience. Did you see " When predators attack" on the news?

Of course I don't know if Moore and Crumb being British has anything to do with what they are allowed to get away with but, I heard that in much Manga or Anime, characters that are clearly 12 or 13 years old often have to say that they are at least 16. And I read that a Japanese book about high school girls had to be changed to college girls in America because it was to graphic and whenever there is incest, they have to refer to the charcters as being a step-sister rather than a biological sister.

As far as being arrested. I remember Fabio Cabral, who is a photographer living in California, was arrested for taking nude pictures of young girls. These were books that had been out for years and were often considered artistic. Granted they were real people but the point is the law doesnt always seperate art from child porn.

[ReekingHavoc]

I agree with inferring any incidents of child sex or molestation. It lets the readers picture for themselves what's happening and would make your story stronger.

[Buckyrig]

But she's saying it will compromise the piece. That is why all the fuss. Do it...but cover your ass.


(By the way - Considering the already limited audience for Lost Girls, anyone know why it is only being released in Hard Cover?)

[kdmelrose]

(By the way - Considering the already limited audience for Lost Girls, anyone know why it is only being released in Hard Cover?)

Its audience is a very specific one that will pay $75 for each of the deluxe volumes. It's Victorian/Edwardian-style literary porn, and many comics shops and some book chains simply won't carry it.

So it appeals to the connoisseur -- either the Alan Moore completist who can't wait to see the writer delve into incest, fetishism, bestiality, underage sex and more, or the fetishist who wants to wallow in all of those things and/or has a thing for Alice from Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, Dorothy from The Wizard of Oz and Wendy from Peter Pan.

[Buckyrig]

Its audience is a very specific one that will pay $75 for each of the deluxe volumes. It's Victorian/Edwardian-style literary porn, and many comics shops and some book chains simply won't carry it.

So it appeals to the connoisseur -- either the Alan Moore completist who can't wait to see the writer delve into incest, fetishism, bestiality, underage sex and more, or the fetishist who wants to wallow in all of those things and/or has a thing for Alice from Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, Dorothy from The Wizard of Oz and Wendy from Peter Pan.

Whoa. I didn't know much about it. My understanding was Moore was taking the "sex is part of life, let's write an actual story about it" approach to a comic. Although all of the above goes on in real life, I thought he was just going with literary erotica encompassing "everyman" experiences.

(And well, Lewis Carroll may or may not have had a "thing" for Alice.)

[jrod]

Its audience is a very specific one that will pay $75 for each of the deluxe volumes. It's Victorian/Edwardian-style literary porn, and many comics shops and some book chains simply won't carry it.

So it appeals to the connoisseur -- either the Alan Moore completist who can't wait to see the writer delve into incest, fetishism, bestiality, underage sex and more, or the fetishist who wants to wallow in all of those things and/or has a thing for Alice from Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, Dorothy from The Wizard of Oz and Wendy from Peter Pan.

I purchased the $150 signed deluxe hardcover but I fall on the Moore completist side of things.

And I like boobies, too.

[Scribe]

Anyone else remember Mike Diana and Boiled Angel? I believe he is the only American ever convicted of obsenity. Basically Boiled Angel was about pedophila, rape, incest and satan worshiping. Part of his probation was that he was banned from writing anything along those lines, even for his own use, so yes, drawings of child porn can be illegal.

But then again you can buy the Boiled Angel TPB and Yaoi on Amazon so I'm not sure whats legal anymore.

Personally I would be very careful in that area because I live in Georgia, and the GOP here hasn't found a moral issue yet it can't beat like a drum on the campaign trail, so that's something to take into consideration as well

[Ballerina]

Actually, I remember that members of the rap group '2Live crew' were arrested for lyrics that were explicit. Though I'm not sure any laws have changed since then.

[Buckyrig]

Never goes anywhere, but it happens and has to be dealt with. 2 Live Crew was in FL. That is the same state they went after a comic shop owner for selling a copy of Danzig's Verotika to a kid. Not exactly the same issue, but yeah where it happens matters.