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cesare2009
11-07-2017, 01:02 AM
DC is the best

I had a blast doing this one...hope you enjoy!

http://www.cesaretatarelli.com/samples/powergirl_final.jpg

jeffchris50
11-07-2017, 02:53 AM
Oh My........
(that's about all I can manage at the moment; more later after closer study, but trust me, it's a good "Oh My...")

TASKER
11-07-2017, 03:48 AM
me2 jeff.. the pose is a bit ambitious... i think where it first goes wrong is the rib cage is a touch small...hence he tries to make it up with extending the obliques the far side should maybe be compressed a bit more??? ( its hard to imagine the pelvic crests?) also the form of the nearest glute seems unfinished.. ive actually tried to draw the pose myself... there also seems to be a bit of apprehension with the nose and mouth... i'd actually like to see a little less trying to define everything - like the arms and a bit more style or simplistic approach so she doesnt look so generic...

He definitely has talent not a bad sketch otherwise..

cesare2009
11-07-2017, 10:55 AM
I think the arms are weak, will revisit that aspect of the drawing, but as for 'going wrong' I think that is overstating it a bit. The pose is very ambitious, but I should have pushed it even more....I just might try again.... her glute is flat, but her expression, I would say, is different, not typical, not pouty, but still playful, the face is too small for anything more than a suggestion of an expression....

good crit

cesare2009
11-07-2017, 11:36 PM
Done with this one I think. Learned something. Happy with the result. Not perfect but definitely better!

http://www.cesaretatarelli.com/samples/powergirl_finalV2.jpg

TASKER
11-08-2017, 03:17 AM
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/b0eb16_9f9c959f0e814d8db878cc27018fea84~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_600,h_782,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/b0eb16_9f9c959f0e814d8db878cc27018fea84~mv2.jpg

Hmm i like the arms the way they where in the previous version seemed to add depth and flow to the art ...

The iliac crest is one of the major landmarks when drawing the human figure cesare you should learn them all.. also included a few tid bits or just simply trash...:slap:

lol..

SSTiger
11-08-2017, 05:30 AM
I like the first version better too - the arms looked more natural for someone flying in the air. The one thing that seems a bit off to me is the mouth - it's showing too much teeth to be a smile, and the lips aren't wide enough to be a proper grin. She might look better with a smile that's not showing teeth:

http://image.ibb.co/kBOqYG/PGT.png

Maybe close the lips too just a little bit?

I'm not an artist though and neither do I know that much about drawing, so this is purely the opinion of a layperson who appreciates art (and women with muscles). Could be I'm wrong and feel free to tell me to buzz of if that's the case.

Anyway, good work and I like it.

cesare2009
11-08-2017, 11:28 AM
Tiger.....buzz off

kidding.....but do you really think what you did is more appealing than what I did? I feel there's something natural and playful about how I did her mouth, caught her in a moment rather than posed her....and it really isnt the focus of the drawing....

Tasker - the position of the arms the first time does have a more...floaty feeling....but the execution was weak I felt. I might not be done with this drawing after all, I think your draw over would enhance the piece....appreciate you taking the time.

cesare2009
11-09-2017, 12:26 AM
Spent some time looking at the pelvis and the crest, and just went with it.

http://www.cesaretatarelli.com/samples/powergirl_rendering.jpg

SSTiger
11-09-2017, 02:01 AM
I didn't "do" anything there (just clone-stamped the teeth lines out as a reference to convey the point), it wasn't meant to be some kind of definitive improvement and I wouldn't make an assumption like that. I couldn't ever draw a face if someone held a gun to my head.

Anyway I like your version better, it actually does look like a candid moment where you caught her on camera midair. I still prefer the first floaty-arms but still, some sky in the BG, some inks and colors, and that could be a cover. :thumbs:

cesare2009
11-09-2017, 08:25 PM
aaaand I changed the face...anything goes...this turned into a great exercise and I appreciate the feedback. Really.

jeffreygraphix
11-09-2017, 09:52 PM
Looks really good. I love your crisp pencils. I tend to get a bit wispy with my own line art. It could be because I ink my own stuff but I want to get my pencils as clean as yours are.

Stewart Vernon
11-16-2017, 06:49 PM
I actually like different things about the differing versions. There are always things to nitpick, very few perfect drawings out there! It's why I have to eventually stop tinkering even when I am not 100% sure I've done what I meant to do.

As for commentary. I always tell people the same thing I do myself... which is:

When someone gives you advice, ALWAYS listen to it. When five people give you five different bits of advice, ALWAYS listen to it... THEN, do whatever you want. It's up to you to learn and grow IF you want to do something different. If you want to be better, and someone offers advice that nudges that, then DO IT... but don't feel like you have to make everyone happy. That's a losing battle. There will always be something that someone will think you ought to have done different.

I remind myself of this all the time. I have to weigh my own self-critique against input from others. Sometimes I'm too harsh on myself. Other times I try to incorporate suggestions from others that really don't suit my style. We all have to find our own way, and pick up bits of good advice along the way whenever someone offers something that fits what we want to do.

Justice41
11-17-2017, 11:48 AM
Simple works too. If it works without heavy rendering it works, if it doesn't.....?
https://scontent.fmia1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23622083_1466219590140410_660805973654914912_n.jpg ?oh=0dc0a04c01e306bccd8e6e61999b4131&oe=5AA21D8A

cesare2009
11-19-2017, 12:55 AM
we do that to other people's art work here?

reyesart
11-19-2017, 01:17 AM
People have already offered great advice. If you would like some help with Rendering your art I made a How To Video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxNe6jqiTDk&t=4646s) that may help.

jeffchris50
11-19-2017, 12:50 PM
we do that to other people's art work here?

I thought that was a bit of overstepping one's boundaries, as well, cesare, unless Justice had gotten in touch with you to approve posting it.

Justice41
11-19-2017, 11:31 PM
we do that to other people's art work here?

We used to do that, has something changed? I don't visit much so if the whole art overlay, manip, help thing has gone away there's no reason to keep coming here.

cesare2009
11-21-2017, 01:10 PM
sure, advice, but totalling obliterating the work? The point was to render the figure. I respect your skill but that was not advice.

cesare2009
11-21-2017, 01:17 PM
Watched the vid Jimmy, great technique

12013
11-21-2017, 03:17 PM
sure, advice, but totalling obliterating the work? The point was to render the figure. I respect your skill but that was not advice.

I don't see what the problem is. he altered it to offer a visual representation of his thoughts on something that could or could not work. he actually stopped everything hes doing, and put some time in to make some alterations to show you what he meant, rather than just SAYING it. he could have just said it, but with art, sometimes its easier to show that try to explain.

ultimately, he didn't hurt your art. its still there. why didn't you have a problem with the guy that took your art and did that drawover with the "crest" thing or whatever that was. he took your art and altered it, to show a point.. but you weren't concerned. so I don't see the problem with justice doing what he did in the context he did.

either way, this thread for a minute, has been offering some nice thoughts on art and different ways to approach it. its been valuable. and that's good.

rob

sevans
11-21-2017, 05:15 PM
Agreed.

Don't personally think it was over stepping. More people need to illustrate THEIR points visually. This is a visual medium.

That was his take on the picture, like all advice you take the bits that work and ignore the rest.

You still have your art, he didn't come to your place with a sharpie and draw on the original.

TASKER
11-21-2017, 10:03 PM
lol let it go.

cesare2009
11-22-2017, 12:07 PM
The thread may be getting out of hand, I stand by what I said, the point of the piece was to render the figure.

I enjoyed applying some of the advice I got with regards to anatomy and rendering. Justice is a pro and I value feedback tremendously, but it irked me that he just wiped out the effort and I'm not apologizing for it.

Scribbly
11-28-2017, 06:18 PM
From where I am, a graphic correction over artwork is always more effective and clever than a written, detailed description of what should be improved.
I liked the first image as it was. It has a good flow. With a few touches it could be perfect.
I see Tasker was effective and clever for everyone on the issues.

When correcting artwork is important to keep on mind what was the original intent of the author before put hands on.

eDuke
11-29-2017, 05:07 PM
We used to do that, has something changed? I don't visit much so if the whole art overlay, manip, help thing has gone away there's no reason to keep coming here.

Yeah, Justice is right. Back in the day other creators helped other creators get better. That was the beauty behind this site. I get it though, nowadays people don't want that help and that's okay too.

But I would hate to see Justice take off because of this. I hope he doesn't because we need more people like him.

cesare2009
12-01-2017, 11:55 AM
"Yeah, Justice is right. Back in the day other creators helped other creators get better. That was the beauty behind this site. I get it though, nowadays people don't want that help ...."

I did not say I dont want help.....but if the idea is to render the drawing, eliminating the rendering.....I dont see that as help......

12013
12-01-2017, 08:41 PM
[QUOTE=cesare2009;1871399 I did not say I dont want help.....but if the idea is to render the drawing, eliminating the rendering.....I dont see that as help......[/QUOTE]

I think maybe you were missing the point of his post. what I thought he was getting at in part (and I could be completely wrong here) is that if you remove all the rendering and distracting lines and crosshatching and just get down to the basic simple linework of the FIGURE, and see if it still looks structurally sound and dynamic, without all the other stuff.. then its a good indicator of how well the figure is working.
not saying the rendering is bad or wrong. its just a way to look more simply at the figure work to see how its going. kinda like taking a drawing you are doing and looking at it in reverse and suddenly all kinds of errors you just couldn't see before become super apparent. I do this all the time with my own stuff.

anyway..i could be wrong about his intent. but that's the lesson I took from it. as just an example of how to see how your drawing is going.

anyway...you are still good at what you do.

rob

cesare2009
12-04-2017, 10:55 AM
Thanks Rob, that's a fair take on it...