PDA

View Full Version : Forsaken Realm: Abandonment


DarkHalf05
08-23-2016, 11:03 PM
I promised Ahn I'd post up a bit of my script tonight. I submitted this one (http://www.comixtribe.com/2013/07/12/tpg-week-133-when-dialogue-is-the-biggest-downfall/) a ways back to TPG. Through both the editors and the great feedback I had received from everyone here in the forums I was able to make many, what I feel are, positive changes.

One of the feedbacks from the TPG submission was the story was confusing where it started. I've added two scenes before the one that originally started the script. I'll post up the first one here. Anyway, here it is.

Page 1 (Six Panels)
Page 1, Panel 1
An extreme long shot of the Demon Palace during the day. The right half of the palace is in the shot, with three mountain peaks in view.

NOTE TO LETTERER: Please have the editorial caption look like a burned piece of paper or scroll.

Editorial Caption: The Demon Palace, Planet Leh.
Jirra (Tail pointing to rightmost mountain peak): Ryu! Where are you going? Do you know what has happened to Father?
Ryu (Tail pointing to rightmost mountain peak): Return to your quarters at once, and then I shall summon him.

Page 1, Panel 2
A wide medium shot of JIRRA and RYU standing framed by the doorway to the summoning chamber. Jirra is hunched over looking up at Ryu with a sad expression. Ryu is looking down at him scowling while his left arm holds his helmet to his torso. The room in the background contains a large dish with two statues flanking it, one on each side. They each depict a demon, struggling to stand upright from carrying a large plate on its back. A purple flame hovers above the plates. The lighting for the scene comes not only from the fire within the summoning chamber, but also torches in the adjacent rooms, which are not shown in the panel.

Jirra: ButÖBut, --
Ryu: Jirra, this is your last warning! Father would be displeased with your disobedience.


Page 1, Panel 3
Jirra is walking away in the background with head is turned and a childish angry look. Meanwhile, in the foreground, Ryuís demeanor has not changed as he looks over his right shoulder towards Jirra.

Jirra (weak): Hmph, fine.


Page 1, Panel 4
The camera is behind RYU as he sets his helmet down next to his left foot. His right hand is slightly raised in the air towards the statue on his right, with the flame beginning to change to a swirling shape. The statue on the left is off panel.

Ryu: Foolish child.
SFX (from helmet): Clink

Page 1, Panel 5
Still behind RYU, the camera is pulled back to include both statues in the background. Ryu stands in the center of them with both arms stretched out towards the flames, which are spiraling towards his hands.

Ryu: He still thinks Father is the one he should fear.

Page 1, Panel 6
A low angle shot looking up at RYU from his waist up holding both fists high out in front of him. They are surrounded by purple energy from the flames, casting him in an eerie light. His head is tilted down looking at them with a cocky smirk on his face.

NO COPY


Page 2 (Five Panels)
Page 2, Panel 1
An over the shoulder shot of RYU favoring his right. His hands are placed together out in front of his chest and pointing towards the dish in the center of the room. A large purple flame is erupting from the dish that resembles a backwards number six.

SFX (from fire): Fwoooshhh
Ryu: Now, lets get this over with. The old manís probably just sick again.
Ryu: No matter. His era will soon end.

Page 2, Panel 2
Tight full body rear three quarter shot as RYU begins to kneel before the fire. His right hand can be seen reaching toward the floor, and his head is looking downward. The negative space behind him is purple from the flame.

Ryu: FatherÖ

Page 2, Panel 3
RYU is now fully kneeling on the floor in a repeat shot. His right fist is touching the ground, his left fist hovering in front of his right shoulder, and his gaze is affixed to the floor. The fire has now taken the shape of the throne at the peak of the mountain.

Ryu: ÖIt is I, Ryu. I request an audience with you. We recently havenít felt your aura. Is everything well?

Page 2, Panel 4
Profile medium shot of Ryu who is now looking up towards the flame, his expression is blank. Some detail of the stone wall behind him can be seen.

Ryu: Father, why do you not ansÖ

Page 2, Panel 5
A close up of RYUís shocked expression.

Ryu: What?! This canít be!


Page 3 (Six Panels)
Page 3, Panel 1
A close shot of the throne. The back is wrapped in his fatherís royal robes. On the seat of the throne is his fatherís helmet, which is broken in half and cracked.

Ryu (OP): Fatherís iconic Royal ArmorÖ
Ryu (OP): Önothing can destroy it except his own hand! He would neverÖunlessÖ

Page 3, Panel 2
The camera is a bust up shot of RYU, who is looking forward with a puzzled expression.

Ryu: After nearly half a century of seclusionÖ why now?!

Page 3, Panel 3
RYUís expression has shifted to anger.

Ryu: YouÖyou have given up the throne and abandoned us!

Page 3, Panel 4
RYUís face has gone beyond anger, now twisted in extreme outrage. He looks slightly downward.

Ryu (burst): How dare you!

Page 3, Panel 5
The camera is a low three quarter view from behind RYU as he flips the dish over onto the floor. The purple fire spills across the background and no longer has the shape of the throne. The surrounding statues are engulfed in the flames.

Ryu (double): RRRAAAH!

Page 3, Panel 6
Behind RYU as he looks over his right shoulder. His brows are still scrunched in anger, but his mouth is open in surprise.

Saimys (OP): Youíre late.


Page 4 (Seven Panels)
Page 4, Panel 1
A close up of the right side of RYUís face, which is on the right border of the panel, as he glances backwards over his right shoulder towards SAIMYS, his brother, in the background. His mouth has opened wider as he is yelling. Saimys leans cross-armed and head down against a wall. No expression can be seen. He is in his apparition form, so he is semi-transparent and his legs disappear into nothingness beneath him. A slight glowing purple aura surrounds him.

Ryu (burst): Saimys!
Ryu: You dare mock me?!
Ryu: Without the courage to do it in person!

Page 4, Panel 2
A straight on medium shot of SAIMYS leaning up against the wall. He still remains cross-armed with his head down, but at this distance we can now see the stones of the wall through him.

Saimys: Mocking you? No, Iím merely making an observation.
Saimys: Iím surprised that you have just only sensed his absence now.

Page 4, Panel 3
A pulled back, almost full body shot of the brothers. SAIMYS remains in the same position he has since his introduction. RYU, however, now stands hunched as he slams his right hand on the wall next to Saimysís left shoulder. His other hand is raised in an angry fist pointed towards his brother. His mouth is open wide as he continues to yell at the unfazed Saimys.

Ryu (burst): And you chose not to inform me?!
SFX (from hand hitting the wall): thud
Saimys: I was searching for him. Regretfully, he is no longer in this world.

Page 4, Panel 4
A close up of SAIMYS as he looks up with a half smile straight out at the camera.

Saimys: The throne is yours, Brother.
Saimys: Not quite the glorious overthrow you had in mind, is it?

Page 4, Panel 5
RYUís body is in profile as he stumbles backward, caught off guard by his brothers statement. His arms are relaxed and are beginning to fall down towards his sides. His head is looking in the other direction of his brother, and we can see the confusion in his face.

NO COPY

Page 4, Panel 6
RYU stands at the left of the panel, his body facing forward and his head turned to the right looking behind him, now serious. He holds a clenched fist in front of him. Saimys is in the background to the right of Ryuís fist, staring forward solemnly.

Ryu: Our father never deserved the throne. Iím the one who built this castle, who unified the demons in a city.
Ryu: If it were not for me, we would still be roaming the Wastes like savages.

Page 4, Panel 7
Same shot, except RYU has a wide grin and SAIMYSís mouth is open as he speaks.

Saimys: So, what are your orders, my Lord?


Page 5 (Six Panels)
Page 5, Panel 1
Shot of RYU from behind as he is twisting back to look at the camera. His left hand is up in the air, his fingers fanned out with his claws looking like they are ready to strike an opponent. His other arm hangs down at his side. The smile from the previous panel is still apparent as he speaks. In the background, to Ryuís right, is the demon statue with small flames burning out on the ground in front of it. Ryuís helmet can be seen lying on the ground.

Ryu: Come now, Sammy!
Ryu: As if you donít already know! Youíre always one step ahead with your visions.

Page 5, Panel 2
A frontal medium shot of SAIMYS, who looks pleadingly at his brother with his arms down at his sides and open handed, much like depictions of Jesus.

Saimys: I have seen your decision, but urge you to reconsider.
Saimys: After all, it was the one order Father gave usÖ
Saimys: ÖTo let him live.

Page 5, Panel 3
RYUís temper once again gets the best of him, as he turns and raises his left fist in the air. Spittle flies from his mouth as he yells angrily at Saimys.

Ryu: The half-breed doesnít deserve to share Fatherís blood! His birth was the catalyst for Lord Bathymís downfall.

Page 5, Panel 4
Silhouette of RYU raising his left arm high in the air, gesturing triumphantly. His eyes are white, open wide with a proud look. In the background is LORD BATHYM, standing victorious over many slain creatures.

Ryu: From a great conqueror of realmsÖ

Page 5, Panel 5
Same type of silhouette, with RYU turning his head away in disgust and looking downward. Behind him is an image of the throne and LORD BATHYM sitting on it, staring out into nothingness.

Ryu: Öto nothing but a pathetic recluse!

Page 5, Panel 6
SAIMYS looks downward with one hand on his forehead.

Ryu (OP): If you canít foresee the outcome, then Iíll take my chances with fate.
Ryu (OP): My decision is final. We shallÖ

Artloader
08-24-2016, 11:23 AM
Cool :) - I will give this a good read - do you have a character sheet to go with it Ryan?

DarkHalf05
08-24-2016, 01:48 PM
Cool :) - I will give this a good read - do you have a character sheet to go with it Ryan?

My bad. Here ya go!

Shared traits for the five demon brothers- All have blue skin. They have gaunt torsoís that show their ribs. Each has thick upper brows and no pupils in their eyes. All their ears resemble bat wings.

Ryu (ree*you)- Ryu stands 6í9Ē and wears a large helmet that resembles a Viking helmet. It has a ďTĒ shaped visor in the front, and two large horns on each side that are equal to one full head height. He has a shield that grows from his left shoulder with three spikes that run down it vertically. Each of his legs has two plates of armor growing from them, each with a spike. The garment he wears is a sash that wraps around his waist and then hangs down in front through a buckle. The loin cloth extends down to his calf area. Over top of this he wears a leg covering that covers from the sides of his legs all the way around behind him. This is a little bit longer than the loin cloth.

Saimys (Sai*miss)- His face is much older looking than any of his brothers. He is wrinkled in his forehead area, mouth and under eyes. He has a liver spot above his right eye. His ears are slightly larger than his brothers. He wears a garment that resembles a cross between a hakama (Samurai pants) and a dress, and wears wooden sandals. He carries a black bokken (wooden sword) over his left hip. Saimys stands 6í5Ē tall.

Jirra (jer*ra)- The little brother, standing at 6í1Ē, has an elongated neck. In his throat area a skull can be identified of his unborn twin brother. His shoulder has the thumb joint from a set of wings buried beneath his skin sticking out. His forearms are a bulky mass that holds the remainder of these wings. He wears a simple ďVĒ shaped loin cloth. He always has a twisted, insane grin spread across his face.

reference photo of demon dudes (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7oAuRGq0C3Vd1NYRVpGOGpWYlk/view?pref=2&pli=1)

Lord Bathym (ba*thim)- The father of the main characters, shown only in flashback, wears a helmet that only covers the right side of his head. The top has five spikes that fold over toward the left, slightly resembling anime hair. He has armor that covers his chest area, but his stomach is bare. Each shoulder has a large shoulder pad with spikes coming out. From the shoulder armor, each side has a cloth that comes from it that flows around him like a partial cape. His leg armor is similar to Ryuís, but offers more protection. He wears a sash around his waist that goes through a buckle and down into a loincloth.

Locations

Leh- The home planet of the demons is mostly a flat and barren world. There are more mountains and rock formations closer to the Demon Palace. Cracks in the ground let the purple negative energy flow out like steam. The sky is red.

Negative Energy- This is the purple energy that is seen coming out of fissures of the ground. The energy is similar to the water cycle of Earth, and has influence on the weather patterns of the planet. The energy can be manipulated into elements, or it can happen on its own.

Demon Palace- A large center mountain surrounded by four smaller mountains that extend up into the clouds. Around this mountain formation a wall was built. At the front is a large archway opening. There is no gate. All are free to enter or leave as they choose. There are large, circular parts to the wall at each end. It looks more like a prison than a castle.

Summit of the throne- At the peak of the center mountain is the throne. It extends above the clouds. When looking directly at the throne, it looks like a hook shape going to the left. The throne is a plain stone slab chair, with a large back.

Artloader
08-24-2016, 06:52 PM
This is a great piece of world building you done here Ryan :). I like the concept of the negative energy and the red sky especially.

You've included some interesting displays of magic (the summoning and the self projection) which would hook me into reading more.

I think you've done a good job of setting the scene for the story here - his father leaves and Ryu suddenly finds himself free to do something he's been wanting to do for a long time - kill his half brother.

You've raised a few questions as well to pique the reader's interest - why has Lord Bathym disappeared? How did he end up with a half human son?

I'm no expert on dialogue as you know but I like the way you've used a high fantasy type style and used it pretty consistently.

I had a few suggestions for you if I may:

On Page 2 Panel 3:
…It is I, Ryu. I request an audience with you. We recently havenít felt your aura. Is everything well?"

Maybe try "ÖIt is I, Ryu. I request an audience with you. We havenít felt your aura recently. Is everything well?"

Page 5 Panel 3:
The half-breed doesnít deserve to share Fatherís blood! His birth was the catalyst for Lord Bathymís downfall.

Maybe try "His half breed birth was the catalyst for Father's downfall."

And save naming Lord Bathym until the following panel by changing this:
From a great conqueror of realmsÖ

to something like "From Lord Bathym, great conqueror of realmsÖ".

Just a few thoughts - please feel free to ignore :).

Keep it going my friend - looking forward to seeing where you take this :).

sljinks
08-24-2016, 10:41 PM
DH, cool story. I always have this day dream that I hit the power ball lottery and start my own comic book company, steal every talented comic book artist and writer away from their existing companies by throwing gobs of cash at them. a godfather offer. I would have like 10 of my own titles published, and of coarse Forsaken Realm, cover by Allentown's own Boris Vallejo! You pick the illustrator, hey were rich now! All kidding aside can learn a lot from reading your work as well. Frightening characters, and eerie planet, hope I don't get any nightmares tonight.....Scott

DarkHalf05
08-25-2016, 06:41 AM
This is a great piece of world building you done here Ryan :). I like the concept of the negative energy and the red sky especially.

You've included some interesting displays of magic (the summoning and the self projection) which would hook me into reading more.

I think you've done a good job of setting the scene for the story here - his father leaves and Ryu suddenly finds himself free to do something he's been wanting to do for a long time - kill his half brother.

You've raised a few questions as well to pique the reader's interest - why has Lord Bathym disappeared? How did he end up with a half human son?

I'm no expert on dialogue as you know but I like the way you've used a high fantasy type style and used it pretty consistently.

Thanks, Ahn! Everything you said is exactly what I was striving for. It's been a fun challenge to take my idea and work it into an actual story. I've always known the goal posts, but sitting down and writing it has transformed the story into so much more.

I had a few suggestions for you if I may:

On Page 2 Panel 3:


Maybe try "ÖIt is I, Ryu. I request an audience with you. We havenít felt your aura recently. Is everything well?"

Page 5 Panel 3:


Maybe try "His half breed birth was the catalyst for Father's downfall."

And save naming Lord Bathym until the following panel by changing this:


to something like "From Lord Bathym, great conqueror of realmsÖ".

Just a few thoughts - please feel free to ignore :).

In both cases your suggestion is an improvement. The first line reads much easier, and I rather like how the second one his father's name doesn't feel like he is name-dropping him (let's face it, he totally was) and more like he's being nostalgic, which is what I was going for. Fist bump for these catches!

Keep it going my friend - looking forward to seeing where you take this :).

Thanks for the encouraging words! I'm halfway through the writing the third and final issue for this story. I can't wait to see how it ends! A long time ago I may have thought that was a crazy thing to say about writing, but it's so true. Now, I just gotta hope the world is accepting toward 30+ page fight scenes...

DarkHalf05
08-25-2016, 06:44 AM
DH, cool story. I always have this day dream that I hit the power ball lottery and start my own comic book company, steal every talented comic book artist and writer away from their existing companies by throwing gobs of cash at them. a godfather offer. I would have like 10 of my own titles published, and of coarse Forsaken Realm, cover by Allentown's own Boris Vallejo! You pick the illustrator, hey were rich now! All kidding aside can learn a lot from reading your work as well. Frightening characters, and eerie planet, hope I don't get any nightmares tonight.....Scott

This being the second time you've mentioned Boris Vallejo, I guess I should look him up! I'm still learning who the greats of comics are. Only two months ago I learned of Adam Hughes, which apparently is blasphemous.

Artloader
08-25-2016, 12:43 PM
Thanks for the encouraging words! I'm halfway through the writing the third and final issue for this story. I can't wait to see how it ends! A long time ago I may have thought that was a crazy thing to say about writing, but it's so true. Now, I just gotta hope the world is accepting toward 30+ page fight scenes...

That's good progress Ryan! And 30+ pages of fight scenes? I bet you've got some pretty cool fight choreography going on then!

sljinks
08-26-2016, 12:07 AM
DH, Yeah Vallejo's style is similar to Frank Frazetta, oddly Frazetta lived in East Stroudsburg P.A for many years, the Frazetta museum was here in p.a for awhile after his death as well, now its in Texas. call me a fellow blasphemer. ...I too did not know who Hughes was. If not familiar with Frazetta (which is no harm, no foul depending on your age)look up his art, Vallejo, and Alex Ross would both bow to him, ....they'll tell you the same I would bet.....Scott

gmartyt
08-30-2016, 05:20 AM
Page 1, Panel 3
Jirra is walking away in the background with head is turned and a childish angry look. Meanwhile, in the foreground, Ryuís demeanor has not changed as he looks over his right shoulder towards Jirra.

Jirra (weak): Hmph, fine.

Page 1, Panel 4
The camera is behind RYU as he sets his helmet down next to his left foot. His right hand is slightly raised in the air towards the statue on his right, with the flame beginning to change to a swirling shape. The statue on the left is off panel.

Ryu: Foolish child. (This line should be in the previous panel.)
SFX (from helmet): Clink

Page 1, Panel 5
Still behind RYU, the camera is pulled back to include both statues in the background. Ryu stands in the center of them with both arms stretched out towards the flames, which are spiraling towards his hands.

Ryu: He still thinks Father is the one he should fear. (This line should be in the previous panel.)

Page 1, Panel 6
A low angle shot looking up at RYU from his waist up holding both fists high out in front of him. They are surrounded by purple energy from the flames, casting him in an eerie light. His head is tilted down looking at them with a cocky smirk on his face.

NO COPY

(These last two panels aren't adding anything of value.)




Saimys: Iím surprised that you have just only sensed his absence now.

This line would work much better at the end of page 3 than the one that's there now.




Page 4, Panel 5
RYUís body is in profile as he stumbles backward, caught off guard by his brothers statement. His arms are relaxed and are beginning to fall down towards his sides. His head is looking in the other direction of his brother, and we can see the confusion in his face.

NO COPY

This panel isn't doing anything.

When Ryu summons Lord Bathym, wouldn't he wait until the summoning was done before kneeling down? If so, wouldn't he notice the empty throne immediately?

How often does Lord Bathym's aura disappear? If it happens relatively frequently, wouldn't Ryu simply brush Jirra's concerns off? If not, wouldn't Ryu be in a bit more of a panic?

The dialogue is very stiff. This is mostly because of how much backstory you're trying to cram in there. Keep it simple. For example, instead of:



Page 5, Panel 2
A frontal medium shot of SAIMYS, who looks pleadingly at his brother with his arms down at his sides and open handed, much like depictions of Jesus.

Saimys: I have seen your decision, but urge you to reconsider.
Saimys: After all, it was the one order Father gave usÖ
Saimys: ÖTo let him live.

Page 5, Panel 3
RYUís temper once again gets the best of him, as he turns and raises his left fist in the air. Spittle flies from his mouth as he yells angrily at Saimys.

Ryu: The half-breed doesnít deserve to share Fatherís blood! His birth was the catalyst for Lord Bathymís downfall.

How about:

Saimys: I have seen your decision, but urge you to reconsider.
Saimys: After all, it was the one order Father gave usÖ

Ryu: It was orders such as that that led to his downfall.

(I'm not exactly an expert on dialogue, myself.)

Lastly, you wouldn't happen to be a fan of anime/manga, would you?

Hope this helps.

DarkHalf05
08-30-2016, 11:38 PM
Hey, Greg!

Great stuff all around. All the items you pointed out make complete sense when I look at them again. Looking at it without bias I believe they are better choices, and I think that I may have been so in love with what I wrote that I failed to make sure each panel was doing something to move the story forward. Thanks for the reminder!



Lastly, you wouldn't happen to be a fan of anime/manga, would you?


Heh. It's funny you should mention that. I took advantage of the Brave One offer Steven had, and this came up in my edit. I guess the anime I've watched over the years has numbed any good sense of dialog/storytelling. I just threw in a DVD of Inu Yasha the other night, and wow, I never realized how bad the dialog was. But he has a giant sword that shoots energy, so it's semi-forgivable, right?

It's best to find out these pitfalls now, at this stage, rather than much later after spending countless hours drawing something that makes someone's stomach wretch.

Steven Forbes
08-30-2016, 11:45 PM
Don't worry, Greg. I'll be concentrating more on the pacing after the rewrite.

-Steven

gmartyt
08-31-2016, 02:44 AM
Bad dialogue/storytelling is characteristic of, well, everything. The biggest tip-off, oddly enough, was page 4, panel 5. Shots like that are a very manga thing. I would've let it slide, but the dialogue in the next panel reads like it should come directly after what is said in panel 3, which means that panel 4 adds a beat where there shouldn't be one. Then again, you've got an actual editor working on this, and I'm sure he'll give you much better advice than I can (why do I even bother...?).

PS. You and I may need to have an in-depth discussion about anime sometime. A word of warning, though: I'm a bit of a dick and I hate everything.

PPS. It's a trap! Inu Yasha is actually a romance anime! Get out while you still can!

DarkHalf05
09-02-2016, 10:45 PM
PS. You and I may need to have an in-depth discussion about anime sometime. A word of warning, though: I'm a bit of a dick and I hate everything.

Anytime you want to talk about some anime, feel free to email me!
ryanpkroboth@gmail.com
I'll get my trash-talking game warmed up so I can keep up!

PPS. It's a trap! Inu Yasha is actually a romance anime! Get out while you still can!

I've watched the whole thing (minus the tacked on ending), so I already know. You're too late!

DarkHalf05
09-02-2016, 10:54 PM
I'm currently working on my rewrite for this. Figuring out where and how to start is the hardest part. If anyone has a chance to give me feedback on this draft, it would be greatly appreciated. The most important question, I suppose, would be would you continue reading this? Or do I need to start somewhere else?

I dunno what to name the one character yet, so that's just a stand-in at the moment.

Thanks for your time!

Page 1 (Six Panels)
Page 1, Panel 1
It is late day, twilight, in the Wastelands of Leh. We have a far shot looking toward the Demon Palace Gate. A large group of demons migrate toward the entrance from all directions, much resembling a series of arteries which converge at the gate.

Editorial Caption: The Demon Palace, Planet Leh.

Page 1, Panel 2
The camera is on top of the gate, looking directly down into itís wide path. On the left is a small clearing where NAME walks out toward the Wastelands in contrast to the large group entering. Somewhere away from NAME is DERIKZL, in a spot by himself.

NAME: No way! Thereís another kid out here!
NAME: Guess itís my lucky day.

Page 1, Panel 3
Camera is a silhouette shot of the crowd. In the background, in the negative space between the crowd, NAME faces away from the camera as he waves wildly overhead to DERIKZL, who is sitting clutching his legs while looking toward the racket in annoyance.

NAME: Yo, Kid! Over here!

Page 1, Panel 4
Low shot looking up at NAME approaching DERIKZL from behind. NAME looks surprised, while Derikzl has turned toward the camera, glaring.

NAME: Damn! No wonder youíre running away. Look at you. Youíre ugly as hell.
Derikzl: Yea. Damn.
Derikzl: You can go away now.

Page 1, Panel 5
Side shot. NAME has his hands on his hips and mischievously looks away. DERIKZL continues to stare forward.

NAME: Whoa. Big, tough guy. A whole twenty feet away from the gate.
Derizkl: Didnít run away, so you know.
NAME: Uh-huh. Well, the crowd gets heavier at night. If you want I can show you the super secret entrance to get back inside.

Page 1, Panel 6
Close up of DERIZKL turning to look behind him, astonished.

Derikzl: I can get back? How?

SamRoads
09-03-2016, 11:30 PM
Good work.

Your dialogue doesn't sound natural to me. And I don't mean modern when I say natural.

Often I feel as if you the writer know what you want us the readers to take away from a panel and the person in the panel then says that thing, in their own voice.

But I get the feeling that the person probably wouldn't have said the thing if the hand of the writer wasn't forcing them to.

For example, on page 2 Ryu spends quite a while talking to himself. He tells us a lot of information, and it feels like he's telling us quite a lot of information. It's a single person 'butlermaid'.

In every TV show I've watched, no matter the time period, I don't recall people giving expository monologues. Yes it happens in plays, but dialogue in plays operates differently to dialogue in comics.

A lot of older superhero comics have this kind of monologue. But not many modern ones.

Get inside Ryu's head. What does he want to say? Possibly nothing.

If this leaves you with a problem of exposition, you may want to find another way of solving it.

One common way is to have people arguing over the exposition information. Tarantino (clunkily) solved it in The Hateful Eight with an out-of-nowhere narrator suddenly joining the story. Perhaps the most common is to have a newbie character (Luke Skywalker, Frodo) and a sage (Ben Kenobi, Gandalf) whose job is to impart information.

Hope this helps!

Artloader
09-04-2016, 06:15 PM
I'm currently working on my rewrite for this. Figuring out where and how to start is the hardest part. If anyone has a chance to give me feedback on this draft, it would be greatly appreciated. The most important question, I suppose, would be would you continue reading this? Or do I need to start somewhere else?

OK Ryan so to help me give you something vaguely useful I though I'd go and read this article from ComixTribe:

B&N Week 110: Pacing–Starting Your Story (http://www.comixtribe.com/2013/01/29/bn-week-110-pacing-starting-your-story/)

Here Steven talks about Slow Burn vs Slam-Bang. Slow Burn is a story that starts off slowly and Slam-Bang is a story that starts of fast (maybe with an exciting action sequence).

He says that it is more difficult for new script writers to pull off the Slow Burn and I must admit being a new writer myself, I find it easiest to start with a Slam-Bang Page 1 when trying to get the reader to turn to Page 2.

Comparing your first draft with your second draft of Page 1, I would say that the first draft was more of a Slam-Bang start and for me it packed more of a punch for the following reasons:

1. You had the more impressive scenery (giant statues, the summoning chamber).
2. You had some cool special effects (purple flames).
3. You raised the more interesting questions to hook the reader in.

To expand on the notion of raising intriguing questions to hook the reader in, I took the liberty of noting down the questions you placed into my head as I read each version of your Page 1.

For V1:

1. What is the rest of this world Leh like?
2. What is their father like?
3. What has happened to their father?
4. Why should Jirra fear Ryu?
5. What other powers does Ryu have if he can cause purple fire to spring from his hands?

For V2:

1. What is the rest of this world like?
2. Why is everyone entering the palace?
3. Why did Derikzl leave the palace when everyone is going towards it?
4. Why does the crowd get heavier at night?
5. Where is this secret entrance?

For me V1 was more Slam-Bang and asked the more relevant and intriguing questions. I was more likely to turn to Page 2.

Anyway I hope all that was useful but please feel free to disregard :).

Keep it going Ryan - I'm looking forward to more!

DarkHalf05
09-07-2016, 03:39 PM
Hope this helps!

Your feedback is always helpful, Sam.

I agree about the exposition dialog. Most likely the story is still starting too late and I'm trying to fill in the necessary information. Working out the balance is a tricky thing. For my rewrite I'll move the timeline forward to see if that helps. Getting into the character's heads is still a challenge for me, and I think that shows.

DarkHalf05
09-07-2016, 03:50 PM
OK Ryan so to help me give you something vaguely useful I though I'd go and read this article from ComixTribe:

B&N Week 110: PacingĖStarting Your Story (http://www.comixtribe.com/2013/01/29/bn-week-110-pacing-starting-your-story/)

Here Steven talks about Slow Burn vs Slam-Bang. Slow Burn is a story that starts off slowly and Slam-Bang is a story that starts of fast (maybe with an exciting action sequence).

He says that it is more difficult for new script writers to pull off the Slow Burn and I must admit being a new writer myself, I find it easiest to start with a Slam-Bang Page 1 when trying to get the reader to turn to Page 2.

Comparing your first draft with your second draft of Page 1, I would say that the first draft was more of a Slam-Bang start and for me it packed more of a punch for the following reasons:

1. You had the more impressive scenery (giant statues, the summoning chamber).
2. You had some cool special effects (purple flames).
3. You raised the more interesting questions to hook the reader in.

To expand on the notion of raising intriguing questions to hook the reader in, I took the liberty of noting down the questions you placed into my head as I read each version of your Page 1.

For V1:

1. What is the rest of this world Leh like?
2. What is their father like?
3. What has happened to their father?
4. Why should Jirra fear Ryu?
5. What other powers does Ryu have if he can cause purple fire to spring from his hands?

For V2:

1. What is the rest of this world like?
2. Why is everyone entering the palace?
3. Why did Derikzl leave the palace when everyone is going towards it?
4. Why does the crowd get heavier at night?
5. Where is this secret entrance?

For me V1 was more Slam-Bang and asked the more relevant and intriguing questions. I was more likely to turn to Page 2.

Anyway I hope all that was useful but please feel free to disregard :).

Keep it going Ryan - I'm looking forward to more!

Thanks, Anh.

This is all very interesting stuff, seeing the perspective of the first page and the questions that arise. I've been thinking on this a bit, and I may choose to move the timeline up even more.

The reason for the second version is I'm primarily trying to cut my expositional dialog and soliloquies and attempt some more organic writing. But I agree with you. It's a slower start, therefore less interesting, and it may provoke the wrong questions I'm trying to use to gain reader interest.

I'm thinking I may instead have a scene similar to the original draft, then the newer scene, followed by the original scene with alterations. Perhaps that way by having a baseline, the summoning scene/rise to power will not need as much forced dialog.

This may sound like I'm thinking out loud, but this has been a great help! Thanks, dude!

gmartyt
09-08-2016, 03:26 AM
Of the two versions you've posted here, I prefer the first, mostly because the rewrite doesn't really do anything. The only bit of information it gives is that Derikzl wants to get inside. If you were to rewrite this page, I'd writing it more from Derikzl's perspective rather than the nameless one. Speaking of the nameless one, when it comes to characters, I'm of the mindset "use them or lose them". If you decide to keep the nameless one, he'd better be around for a good portion of the story. If he's only going to be in this scene, then you're better off using a character who's going to be sticking around instead (Saimys seems like he'd be a good candidate).

As for the first version, it's main problem is that it lacks a sense of urgency, or, to put it another way, it isn't slam-bang-y enough. The way I see it, there's basically two different circumstances; Lord Bathym's aura disappears from time to time, or it doesn't. If this kind of thing happens frequently, Ryu would probably brush off Jirra's concern as an over-reaction. If you wanted to get to the summoning part, you could have Saimys appear here to tell Ryu that it actually is a big deal. In the other scenario, Ryu would probably be rushing in to figure out what the hell happened. In either case, there should be more of a sense of "what the fuck is going on?!" than there is right now.

I'd say the main issue with the dialogue isn't that you're starting too late, but more that you're having trouble figuring out what information is actually necessary. Going back to the first version you posted, there's basically 3 main points; Lord Bathym is gone, Ryu is the new king, Ryu wants to kill Derikzl. Is it important to know that Lord Bathym left on his own (I assume)? Is it important to know that Derikzl is a half-breed? Probably. But it's not important yet. You've got plenty of time to take care of that later. Now, is it important to know how hard Ryu worked to build the kingdom, and that Lord Bathym united the demons? Probably not. Is it interesting? Maybe, but not yet. Again save it for later, when you can present it more naturally.

If I remember correctly (unlikely, I know), the story follows Derikzl on a quest after his brothers try to kill him. If that's the case, you should consider starting with Ryu and the others "killing" Derikzl. This is the event that sets everything else in motion, so it makes some sense to start with it. (And what could be slam-bang-ier than having the main character die?)

Lastly, I've been wondering; what exactly is Ryu's motivation for wanting to kill Derikzl? Right now, it feels like he's doing it because he's a dick, which isn't very compelling. A good villain should be someone that the reader can relate to, to a certain extent. For example, just off the top of my head, if you made it so that Lord Bathym named Derikzl his successor, it'd be more understandable that Ryu would want to kill him.

Hope this helps, and sorry if I crossed any lines.

DarkHalf05
09-09-2016, 06:58 AM
Hope this helps, and sorry if I crossed any lines.

Actually, this is great! I think I may be overthinking everything and this helps put some perspective on the matter. Maybe I don't need more scenes, rather what I'll do is try to rewrite the original scene and get that sense of urgency you were talking about.

Thanks a bunch, Greg.

And have I mentioned how awesome everyone here is?!

DarkHalf05
09-21-2016, 04:43 PM
Hey, everyone.

I've been working on this on my days off, taking in the advice given here. Big thanks to Anh, Sam, and Greg. You guys have been great.

I have tried to re-approach the first scene, keeping the initial version since it seemed to have come across better. One of my focuses are keeping the exposition shouting down to a minimum and working to make it sound conversational. Getting the balance of enough information without smashing the reader in the head with it is tricky. Hopefully this is at least a step in the right direction.

As always, thanks to anyone taking the time to read this. It's always greatly appreciated.

Page 1 (Six Panels)
Page 1, Panel 1
An establishing shot of the Demon Palace during the day.

Jirra (Tail pointing to the rightmost mountain peak): Ryu! Ryu! What are we going to do?! Fatherís missing!
Ryu (Tail pointing to the rightmost mountain peak): Big deal. Why are you acting so surprised? Itís nothing new.

Page 1, Panel 2
The camera is behind JIRRA, arms out in a perplexed gesture, following RYU down a hallway of the Demon Palace. Ryu doesnít pay him any mind. I think if the camera is elevated behind them and to the right it could still lead the eye down from panel one. It is important that we should see the end of the hallway and nothing is there.

Jirra: Yea, I know. But he hasnít left since Der--

Page 1, Panel 3
Medium shot of RYU looking back over his shoulder, his eyes wide with hostility. Kind of like a Vincent Price menacing look.

NO COPY

Page 1, Panel 4
Medium full shot of JIRRA holding his arms up in front of him pleadingly with an apologetic grin. RYU stands facing him with a grimace.

Jirra: Sorry! I didnít mean to bring that up.
Jirra: Itís just he would leave all the time, but itís been forever. Since, you know.
Ryu: Itís not of my concern, nor should it be yours, Jirra.

Page 1, Panel 5
JIRRA and RYU have turned to look behind them with surprise toward the end of the hallway from panel two. Their attention is focused on SAIMYS in apparition form, only partially tangible, leaning against the wall cross-armed and a knowing smile.

Saimys: Actually, Brother, itís a bigger deal than you think.

Page 1, Panel 6
Close up of RYU, his eyes narrowed.

Ryu: Is that so?

Page 2 (Six Panels)
Page 2, Panel 1
An establishing shot inside the Summoning Chamber, which contains two large statues of demons holding a dish on their backs, similar to Atlas. Each dish has a purple flame hovering above it. Between the two statues is giant dish on the floor.

The camera is looking toward the doorway where JIRRA and SAIMYS stand behind RYU. I imagine it to be set back behind the statues and flames using them to frame the figures.

Ryu: This had better not be a waste of my time.
Saimys: As if you have anything better to do.

Page 2, Panel 2
Shot from behind, RYU stands close to the statues, his hands out drawing the purple energy into them. SAIMYSís head is angled so we can see a half-smile. while JIRRA tries to peer around Saimys to see whatís going on.

Ryu: Ahh, Saimys, always quick with your tongue when you donít show in person.
Saimys: Surely itís why you keep me around.
Ryu: Keep telling yourself that.

Page 2, Panel 3
RYU is redirecting the purple energy toward the center dish in the room. SAIMYS has one hand near his mouth as he whispers to JIRRA, who looks confused.

Saimys (whisper): You might want to step back. Itís going to get messy.
Jirra: Huh?

Page 2, Panel 4
RYU, SAIMYS, and JIRRA watch impatiently as the purple energy begins to take the form of the throne.

Ryu: Now, whatís soÖ

Page 2, Panel 5
Small panel that is a shot of the throne with Lord Bathymís helmet sitting on the seat, smashed. His cloak is wrapped across the back and appears to be blowing in some wind.

NO COPY

Page 2, Panel 6
Small panel, close up of RYUís face, terrified.

Ryu (small): ÖImportant?

Page 3 (Six Panels)
Page 3, Panel 1
JIRRA looks toward panel right with curiousity, SAIMYS has a smile at the corner of his mouth, and RYU looks toward the fire with disgust. The throne and fire should take up half of the panel to get a sense of itís size.

Ryu: What kind of conqueror leaves his armor?

Page 3, Panel 2
A medium shot where RYUís expression has shifted to anger.

Ryu: No!
Ryu (double): He has abandoned us!
Ryu (burst): How dare he!

Page 3, Panel 3
From behind, RYU is in the middle of flipping the dish which is already causing the panel to fill with purple fire. SAIMYS stands unfazed by the fire, although quite amused. JIRRA panics as he jumps through the air toward the camera trying to avoid being burned.

Ryu: Rahhhh!
Jirra: Ow! Ow! Ow!

Page 3, Panel 4
RYU, furious, has turned toward SAIMYS, who now looks serious. The fire rages around them.

Saimys: The chance to see that expression twice is why I came like this.
Ryu: Now is not the time for games.
Saimys: Donít be short sighted. The throne is yours, Brother.

Page 3, Panel 5
RYU gawks at the fire as SAIMYS literally fades away into the flames as his apparition dissolves.

Saimys: Not quite the glorious overthrow you had in mind?

Page 3, Panel 6
Over RYUís shoulder looking toward the doorway behind him where the real SAIMYS is knelt on the floor bowing, his gaze affixed to the floor.

Saimys: What are your orders, my Lord?

Page 4 (Four Panels)
Page 4, Panel 1
RYU is motioning for SAIMYS to rise, who has raised his head to look at Ryu. I imagine this camera shot to be slightly lower to the ground, almost behind Saimys, looking up toward Ryu.

Ryu: Come now, Sammy, youíre always one step ahead with your visions.
Saimys: Yes, but do you think that itís a wise course of action?

Page 4, Panel 2
RYU has taken a step closer to the doorway and looks down at his balled up fist at his side with a scowl. SAIMYS now stands in the doorway, a look of concern on his face

Ryu: Father showed that abomination mercy by letting it live.
Ryu: It made him weak.

Page 4, Panel 3
Front shot of RYU, now holding the fist in front of him, the corners of his mouth twist up in a grin.

Ryu: I have no intention of following in his footsteps.
Ryu: And I shall start by correcting his mistakes.

Page 4, Panel 4
Full shot pulled back from the doorway. RYU stands in a confident pose, looking smugly to the side at SAIMYS, who grips his bokken with his left hand and a blank expression washed over his face. The purple fire burns behind them.

Ryu: My orders are clear.

gmartyt
09-22-2016, 02:20 AM
This reads a lot more like manga than your initial version. Is it supposed to be manga? What kind of vibe are you trying to give off here?

DarkHalf05
09-22-2016, 02:53 PM
This reads a lot more like manga than your initial version. Is it supposed to be manga? What kind of vibe are you trying to give off here?

This isn't a manga.

What I'm going for is just laying down the groundwork while showing that these characters are brothers, and as such, like screwing around with each other. I'm also attempting to establish the family relationship between these characters to offer up as a contrast for later interactions, being the main theme of my comic is family.

Perhaps using Jirra is why this is coming across as such. He is supposed to have the mentality of a child, but he's also crazy. Or, that's what I've always been trying to do. Maybe changing up the characters here would help the setup?

I've always been working toward a "what if the TMNT were bad guys" kinda deal with this group of characters, I suppose.

Artloader
09-22-2016, 07:01 PM
Kudos for getting another re-write done Ryan.

I think this beginning is more dynamic than the second one in this thread, although possible not quite as effective at getting the story going as the first version.
We've got three brothers who's father has just disappeared.
The big brother assumes rulership and is now free to pursue his goal of killing a certain someone (we don't know exactly who yet).

So the information you have revealed so far with this script is:


Names - Ryu, Jirra, Saimys, Bathym.
They're brothers.
They live in the demon palace.
Ryu wants to kill someone who's name starts with Der...
Lord Bathym is their father.
Lord Bathym did not want to kill Der...
Ryu is the most powerful brother.
Jirra is the little brother.
Saimys appears to be the cunning middle brother.


I think you have revealed less information in this version than in the first version earlier on in this thread.
In order to bring the conflict more to the fore, consider revealing a little more about Derikzl.
Maybe at least reveal his name?

Instead of:

Page 1, Panel 4
Medium full shot of JIRRA holding his arms up in front of him pleadingly with an apologetic grin. RYU stands facing him with a grimace.

Jirra: Sorry! I didnít mean to bring that up.
Jirra: Itís just he would leave all the time, but itís been forever. Since, you know.
Ryu: Itís not of my concern, nor should it be yours, Jirra.

Maybe try:

Page 1, Panel 4
Medium full shot of JIRRA holding his arms up in front of him pleadingly with an apologetic grin. RYU stands facing him with a grimace.

Jirra: Sorry! I didnít mean to mention him.
Ryu: Don't ever utter that half-breed's name to be again!

Also, I agree with Greg:

Lastly, I've been wondering; what exactly is Ryu's motivation for wanting to kill Derikzl? Right now, it feels like he's doing it because he's a dick, which isn't very compelling. A good villain should be someone that the reader can relate to, to a certain extent. For example, just off the top of my head, if you made it so that Lord Bathym named Derikzl his successor, it'd be more understandable that Ryu would want to kill him.

Maybe reveal Ryu's motivation to us either in this scene or pretty soon after?

As ever these are just my thoughts, please feel free to disregard, I won't be offended :).

If I have any more thoughts I'll post them up but keep up the momentum mate - good going so far.

gmartyt
09-23-2016, 02:58 AM
Not manga. Got it.

The dialogue is a bit better, but it still reads a little stiff, especially at the beginning. Ryu's still doing a little info-dumping at the beginning, and Jirra feels more anime-y than child-like. Just a suggestion, but you could always go the "are we there yet?" type of conversation and have Jirra keep asking "Where's dad? When's he coming back? Why does he have to leave?" and so on, having Ryu getting more and more annoyed until the mention of Derikzl causes him to snap before apologizing and calmly explaining what is going on. You might want to get Jirra to leave before Saimys shows up. He doesn't do anything later in the scene except for the anime-y reaction to the flames. (As an aside, you might want to treat Jirra as an actual child. Basically, if you don't want/can't afford to take the time to explain things to him, then he probably shouldn't be around.)

Now, the pacing. As you know, comics are all about presenting information to the audience in manner that can be understood. In other words, you need to consider what your reader is going to take away from every image and every line of dialogue. Keeping that in mind, let's take a look at a few things:

Ryu (Tail pointing to the rightmost mountain peak): Big deal. Why are you acting so surprised? Itís nothing new.

"Big deal" and "It's nothing new" are essentially saying the same thing. Pick one.

Page 1, Panel 3
Medium shot of RYU looking back over his shoulder, his eyes wide with hostility. Kind of like a Vincent Price menacing look.

NO COPY

Page 1, Panel 4
Medium full shot of JIRRA holding his arms up in front of him pleadingly with an apologetic grin. RYU stands facing him with a grimace.

Both of these panels are telling us that Ryu is angry. Does that really need to be stated twice in a row?

Page 1, Panel 5
JIRRA and RYU have turned to look behind them with surprise toward the end of the hallway from panel two. Their attention is focused on SAIMYS in apparition form, only partially tangible, leaning against the wall cross-armed and a knowing smile.

Saimys: Actually, Brother, itís a bigger deal than you think.

Page 1, Panel 6
Close up of RYU, his eyes narrowed.

Ryu: Is that so?


Both of these panels are telling the reader to be concerned. I got it the first time.

Overall, this is a step in the right direction. Keep it up.