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Marqphillipsp3
08-17-2016, 11:21 PM
From a book that fell through, but I still love the pages and would love to know your thoughts on them!

http://other00.deviantart.net/6965/o/2016/222/e/6/e6c3dadafd1e73f7e1050c6c48ecdece.jpg
http://other00.deviantart.net/de7a/o/2016/222/0/1/0149ede8d3c9631eaa4555c8efcb0828.jpg
http://other00.deviantart.net/01f6/o/2016/222/9/4/94a086f2489658170e8d3a25173f209c.jpg

When this fell through I was really sad; but my fire's back, and I'm lookin' for work! So email me if you've got a story to tell!
Here is my portfolio should you desire to contact me!
http://marqphillips.daportfolio.com/

Pip pip
Marq Phillips

paul brian deberry
08-18-2016, 12:35 AM
Awesome stuff. Love the panel design. Art is superb.

MattTriano
08-19-2016, 06:02 AM
I like the Art Adams thing here. Good drawing. Inkable.

A few too many close ups and oblique crops. Stop breaking panel borders and leave clear space for letters (if applicable).

SamRoads
08-22-2016, 08:50 PM
MattTriano - can you maybe go into why you recommend not breaking panel borders?

It looks quite nice to my eye! :)

jimmybott
08-24-2016, 07:40 AM
MattTriano - can you maybe go into why you recommend not breaking panel borders?

It looks quite nice to my eye! :)

Sam,

It should be used in rare circumstances to add an effect like something exploding from the page or giving the panel more drama, if you over use it then it decreases it's effectiveness when you do use it. It also confuses the natural flow of reading if not used properly.

Below is an extract from "The Insiders Guide to Creating Comics and Graphic Novels" by Andy Schmidt that has some good advice on this.

"BREAKING THE PANEL BORDER

It's perfectly fine for figures or objects to break through borders of single panels as long as the object or person doesn't overlap another panel - unless the panel it overlaps is the next panel to be read. If a figure breaks through the panel at the bottom left and moves down into the panel beneath it, that's fins if the panel beneath it is the next panel in the reading order. if, on the other hand, the top left panel is panel 1 and there is a panel just to the right of it (panel 2) and the panel below it is panel 3, there's a problem. The person or object breaking the panel border creates a line that will lead the reader's eye into whatever panel it extends into. If it extends into a different panel in the reading order, the reader is brought out of the story and is forced to decide, not intuit, which panel he should read next. The illusion breaks and the reader is catapulted out of the story."


"BREAKING OUT OF FRAME EFFECTIVELY

Here's when it works
- It's done with only a panel of great importance and action. Note that I said great importance and action. It should have both.

- The page is designed so that whatever breaks out of the panel does so in the direction towards the panel immediately following it in the reading order.

- It doesn't overlap another panel unless absolultely necessary.

- If something breaks out of one panel (let's say a spear being thrown) and overlaps into the next panel, that same spear isn't depicted in the following panel. If the following panels is a shot of, say, someone being hit by the spear, then the one spear exists in the second panel in 2 places. It's not something anyone has ever said to me, but it always bounces wrong for me to have the same object appear twice in the same panels, even if one of those times it is clearly part of a proceeding panel. It's wierd and it always - always - takes me out of the story."

Marqphillipsp3
08-24-2016, 10:30 PM
Sam,

It should be used in rare circumstances to add an effect like something exploding from the page or giving the panel more drama, if you over use it then it decreases it's effectiveness when you do use it. It also confuses the natural flow of reading if not used properly.

Below is an extract from "The Insiders Guide to Creating Comics and Graphic Novels" by Andy Schmidt that has some good advice on this.

"BREAKING THE PANEL BORDER

It's perfectly fine for figures or objects to break through borders of single panels as long as the object or person doesn't overlap another panel - unless the panel it overlaps is the next panel to be read. If a figure breaks through the panel at the bottom left and moves down into the panel beneath it, that's fins if the panel beneath it is the next panel in the reading order. if, on the other hand, the top left panel is panel 1 and there is a panel just to the right of it (panel 2) and the panel below it is panel 3, there's a problem. The person or object breaking the panel border creates a line that will lead the reader's eye into whatever panel it extends into. If it extends into a different panel in the reading order, the reader is brought out of the story and is forced to decide, not intuit, which panel he should read next. The illusion breaks and the reader is catapulted out of the story."


"BREAKING OUT OF FRAME EFFECTIVELY

Here's when it works
- It's done with only a panel of great importance and action. Note that I said great importance and action. It should have both.

- The page is designed so that whatever breaks out of the panel does so in the direction towards the panel immediately following it in the reading order.

- It doesn't overlap another panel unless absolultely necessary.

- If something breaks out of one panel (let's say a spear being thrown) and overlaps into the next panel, that same spear isn't depicted in the following panel. If the following panels is a shot of, say, someone being hit by the spear, then the one spear exists in the second panel in 2 places. It's not something anyone has ever said to me, but it always bounces wrong for me to have the same object appear twice in the same panels, even if one of those times it is clearly part of a proceeding panel. It's wierd and it always - always - takes me out of the story."
I never knew this! Thank you this was genuinely insightful! I broke the panel edges because the client wanted a very 90's "excessive" style So I read a bunch of Wildcats and got down to it!

MattTriano
08-26-2016, 12:03 AM
Sam,

It should be used in rare circumstances to add an effect like something exploding from the page or giving the panel more drama, if you over use it then it decreases it's effectiveness when you do use it. It also confuses the natural flow of reading if not used properly.

Below is an extract from "The Insiders Guide to Creating Comics and Graphic Novels" by Andy Schmidt that has some good advice on this.

"BREAKING THE PANEL BORDER

It's perfectly fine for figures or objects to break through borders of single panels as long as the object or person doesn't overlap another panel - unless the panel it overlaps is the next panel to be read. If a figure breaks through the panel at the bottom left and moves down into the panel beneath it, that's fins if the panel beneath it is the next panel in the reading order. if, on the other hand, the top left panel is panel 1 and there is a panel just to the right of it (panel 2) and the panel below it is panel 3, there's a problem. The person or object breaking the panel border creates a line that will lead the reader's eye into whatever panel it extends into. If it extends into a different panel in the reading order, the reader is brought out of the story and is forced to decide, not intuit, which panel he should read next. The illusion breaks and the reader is catapulted out of the story."


"BREAKING OUT OF FRAME EFFECTIVELY

Here's when it works
- It's done with only a panel of great importance and action. Note that I said great importance and action. It should have both.

- The page is designed so that whatever breaks out of the panel does so in the direction towards the panel immediately following it in the reading order.

- It doesn't overlap another panel unless absolultely necessary.

- If something breaks out of one panel (let's say a spear being thrown) and overlaps into the next panel, that same spear isn't depicted in the following panel. If the following panels is a shot of, say, someone being hit by the spear, then the one spear exists in the second panel in 2 places. It's not something anyone has ever said to me, but it always bounces wrong for me to have the same object appear twice in the same panels, even if one of those times it is clearly part of a proceeding panel. It's wierd and it always - always - takes me out of the story."

It's highly satisfying and serendipitous that you posted this advice; I'm presently drawing a sci-fi graphic novella written by Andy Schmidt :)

Unless one has the ability to execute the page effectively without breaking borders it would be unwise to do so as a matter of course; always reconsider broken borders if they are your first instinct. You'll be a better cartoonist.

MattTriano
08-26-2016, 12:05 AM
I never knew this! Thank you this was genuinely insightful! I broke the panel edges because the client wanted a very 90's "excessive" style So I read a bunch of Wildcats and got down to it!

It sounds like your client is a moron

sevans
08-26-2016, 12:43 AM
Lets hope the client isn't on DW either.

Amelia
08-26-2016, 02:21 AM
@ ComicBookCoop
I really like your style! Were the pages drawn traditionally, or digitally?

@jimmybott
Thanks for the info, I'll keep that in mind when laying out pages.

MattTriano
08-26-2016, 06:13 AM
Lets hope the client isn't on DW either.

A comic book client who requests a radical change in style or structure, against your better judgment, undervalues your voice in the creative process. I think it comes down to accreditation. Comics credits tell readers that the final product is reflective of a small team of artists' sensibilities (in proportion to each team member's role in the creation of a book). Comics jobs are differet in this regard than Illustration or Advertising clients who prize variability and flexibility. Advertising artists are often unaccredited in the final product because the viewer isn't meant to know or care who made it, and therefore viewers have nothing to invest in the artist's vision.

Comics clients should be aware that a cartoonist's vision attracts readers. Art directed interiors are difficult for the artist to draw and creatively stifling.

Marqphillipsp3
08-26-2016, 09:18 AM
@MattTriano, Well said. The book fell apart for this very reason. I'm glad to know that I was not alone in my frustration. I can push myself to do more and really make pages amazing if my clients didn't always need for the book to look an incredibly specific way. In this case he was a artist who had a shot to work for Image in the 90's but didn't want to relocate. So every page I drew he'd just make me feel like I couldn't draw if I didn't draw like him, I was a ghost pencil, drawing the book for him because he couldn't do it himself. then he ditched me Ignored his signed contract and left me ass to the wind. It sucked.

@sevans, The client found me on DW, and I just bought the book you gave that amazing excerpt from! Thanks again!

@Amelia, thanks, and they were all drawn traditionally! I grew up hooked on bronze age comics in the 70's and 80's. I love them, I studied them, and I work how those guys worked.

VANDAL
08-28-2016, 12:55 PM
This is professional level work for sure!

pandayboss
09-05-2016, 01:01 PM
Woww!:thumbs: