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Kay
01-10-2016, 04:59 AM
http://fairpagerates.com/year-in-review/

luispb
01-10-2016, 01:48 PM
http://fairpagerates.com/year-in-review/

Hey thanks for putting this up.

Wow i had no idea that boom had this kind of reputation with their artists.

Im never buying boom again. Im not going to support a company that treats their creators like shit.

Scribbly
01-10-2016, 07:08 PM
The owner of this site works for Boom. BTW.
The question is: from where this guy got this data? How serious this info is?
When somebody start putting race and gender in the middle, as affecting your ability to be hired in the industry, I tend to distrust of his/hers opinions. Genderfluid, Genderqueer? What tf is that?
This seems serious to you?

vartemis
01-10-2016, 08:41 PM
These numbers are pretty accurate. Dynamites on par with Boom, except when they get a big name artist. This site has been getting survey results for awhile. They rely on surveys from professionals. They are required to give their name to fact check their credits, but the survey data become anonymous.

The only one that's kind of misleading is ONI. It looks worse than it is. As posted by Zander Cannon on his FB page, that number is likely an advance on creator owned, so you can expect more if your book sells. Even Image doesn't do that.

Bottom line is that rates have been in the can for years. Most people I know have jumped ship and do it for the love now because there is no way in hell you are going to survive on comics alone. Turning comics into a career is like making it in professional sports, but you're still barely scraping by to most people.

It also shows how out of touch some artists are on here and sites like DA when you can see what publishers are offering.

Sully
01-10-2016, 08:44 PM
It's something that has become a relevant topic in comics, Scribbly, and it's interesting to see that most people said that it did not affect them to be a minority in comics.

13 dollars is a very strange amount to pay for a full page. I'd be interested in what that situation was XD I feel like there's a reason.

L Jamal
01-10-2016, 09:03 PM
Doing comics outside the comic book industry is far more lucrative than within unless you're at the top of the industry.

vartemis
01-10-2016, 09:43 PM
L Jamal is right. I rarely approach publishers inside the industry for work. I make way more money doing comic related stuff outside of the industry, or getting work from other companies looking to do comic work.

I think the tide is turning in terms of gender/sex/race being a limiting factor in comics. The demand is there now, and smart companies will want to fill it. Creators with different POVs can also get their own following much easier online, thereby gaining the attention of the big guys.

Pay and visibility of other POVs are two totally different issues though. I see the latter easily changing, but the former is not going to change any time soon. Sure it sucks that if you arent working for Marvel and DC the rates are that great, but what are you going to do? Look at the market share, and look at the units sold. What money exactly is the publisher supposed to pay you with?

As for that $13, I assume that was an advance for a creator. ONI isnt a huge publisher with large amounts of cash they can pay a person in advance. If you want to see what happens to a studio who works like that, look up Tundra and its horror stories.

This (http://comicbookeditor.com/post/136988773428/5-points-about-getting-paid-as-a-comics) is an interesting article about the realities of working in the industry now. I don't always agree with what Val has to say, but I think she's pretty on point with this article. I am part of the problem. I make a great salary with benefits outside of comics in the animation/vfx industry, and I also have access to federal healthcare, so I can afford to take a crappy wage if the book really interests me. Mind you I still rarely do this. Most of the time I would rather be working on my own projects, but there is the odd time something catches my eye. Lately it's been creative comixology stuff, but I've done a few Image and Dark Horse submissions over the last couple of years.

I hate to be a downer, but this is just the reality of the NA comic book industry. It is ruled by 2 main companies that control most of the market share, eat up most of the purchasing capital of the average consumer, and dictate most industry trends.

Scribbly
01-11-2016, 12:42 AM
If comics were ever a well paid job, famous top artists like Jack Kirby, John Buscema, or many others, wouldn't force themselves to produce 5 to 6 pages per day giving away all their rights in order to pay them home bills. BTW, These artists were working for the top comics companies in the best silver-golden moment for comics. It is what it is. A business convenient for a few gifted artists and dreamers who work enslaving themselves and a pain for everyone else with bigger expectations.
And don't think other artistic fields are doing better. They can pay 5 times more at once, but dividing the money is made by the time not working between projects it becomes peanuts as well.
Back to the survey, I don't know what sexuality or race as to do with chances for being employed in comics.
BTW this survey is forgetting "artist's age and nationality" as variable.
The comics industry is absorbing thousand artists every year and expelling another thousand as well.
The ones who manage to stay are the ones who count for the audience.
The ones who stood and were able to kept going on across the time are the ones who become famous. And from this last group only a few will make it to richness.

You don't like work for comics companies? Then create your own and get all the flak coming against you.
Or self publish your own stuff and keep your rights. That is the meaning and core of making Independent comics.

BTW, if you read a bit of American comics history', these two companies are not ruling the market just per se, but just because all the other companies went belly up in the time for several and different reasons. These two are the survivors even in this digital era. Of course, they had to do and will do whatever it takes to keep their lead and existence running.
Besides, comics are not for everybody. Only for these who like make them and like read them. Anything else is another story. IMHO.

Sully
01-11-2016, 02:47 AM
Indeed. It's far from a lucrative situation. Such is the reality for most any creative fields. But, if it's what you want to do, it's worth trying your best. I doubt I'll ever quit my day job doing it, but just having some people read my stories would make me happy. It's just important for people starting out to realize that. Especially authors. We're going to be losing money in most cases haha.

Kay
04-01-2016, 10:25 PM
April 2016 update: http://fairpagerates.com/year-in-review-2015-survey-results/

vartemis
04-02-2016, 12:51 AM
I dont understand why Image is included in this survey. They don't pay anything. Any of those rates would have been paid by the IP owner, not Image, unless they are breaking down their sales into equivalent page rate which isn't paid by Image.

Im pretty sure that rate for highest lettering for Boom is a typo, or something is really off about it. Thats more than double what DC and Marvel are paying for a page, and Boom's lettering rates are more in the $7-10 range.

khperkins
04-02-2016, 08:29 AM
Serious lack of lettering rates there.

vartemis
04-02-2016, 12:01 PM
Serious lack of lettering rates there.

Not surprised. Each publisher employs only a handful of letterers across their publications. Marvel is 99% VC. DC, IDW and Top Cow are all internal unless they came with the pitch. DH pretty uses the same few letterers unless they come with the pitch, and Mauer and Finch (Fonografiks) have Image pretty much locked down, although as I said in my previous post, Image shouldn't really count because they aren't the ones paying the artists in most cases. IFAIK they only pay production artists and then bill the team if it's necessary.

Boom, Dynamite, ONI and other publishers on their level pay $10 or lower in most cases. Other than that, I would say it's not a livable wage so it's not even worth publishing.

Lightdragon
04-03-2016, 04:40 PM
the way the rates are going. not sure if working for McDonalds give better pay than working for major publishers. especially when the min. wage is going up to $15 an hour.

maverick
04-04-2016, 05:46 PM
A lot of the survey is bullshit. Here's why.

Each project is different, and is going to get a different budget. For example, DC can forecast the next 4-issue story arc of Batman to sell 120,000 copies each at $3.99, so they will make a budget based on that forecast. The budget would potentially include page rates for the creative team, plus marketing, advertising, etc., for that particular story arc. So of course they are going to pay the writer, artist, etc., a higher page rate to work on that versus the next 4 issues of, say, Prez, which they may only forecast/budget for 5,000 copies per issue to sell (no idea how this comic sells, I'm just throwing numbers out here). There's no way in hell DC is going to pay the same page rate for the two books. So if you want to get paid more, try to get a job on a book that sells more.

And licensing fees are expensive as fuck. I imagine Boom/Kaboom pays a fortune to Cartoon Network to publish Adventure Time, Regular Show, Steven Universe, etc. A fortune! Which cuts heavily into their bottom line, and usually the first ones to suffer (unfortunately) is the creative team. But guess what? If Boom didn't license these properties, some other publisher would, and we'd all be bitching about them instead.

Kay
04-06-2016, 02:57 PM
A lot of the survey is bullshit. Here's why.

Each project is different, and is going to get a different budget. For example, DC can forecast the next 4-issue story arc of Batman to sell 120,000 copies each at $3.99, so they will make a budget based on that forecast. The budget would potentially include page rates for the creative team, plus marketing, advertising, etc., for that particular story arc. So of course they are going to pay the writer, artist, etc., a higher page rate to work on that versus the next 4 issues of, say, Prez, which they may only forecast/budget for 5,000 copies per issue to sell (no idea how this comic sells, I'm just throwing numbers out here). There's no way in hell DC is going to pay the same page rate for the two books. So if you want to get paid more, try to get a job on a book that sells more.

And licensing fees are expensive as fuck. I imagine Boom/Kaboom pays a fortune to Cartoon Network to publish Adventure Time, Regular Show, Steven Universe, etc. A fortune! Which cuts heavily into their bottom line, and usually the first ones to suffer (unfortunately) is the creative team. But guess what? If Boom didn't license these properties, some other publisher would, and we'd all be bitching about them instead.Generally speaking you're right, although I'm doubtful Bogdanovic or any other up-and-coming artist on Batman can command higher page rates than Ben Caldwell, although the former sold better than Prez.

Renae De Liz
04-20-2016, 03:48 AM
Wow, super informative. I've worked for 3 (well 4 if you include Vertigo) of those publishers, and I feel overall they are fairly accurate.

Random House wasn't included, but I feel they have paid the fairest, and treated me with more respect than any of the others. Scholastic is really good too.


Thank you for posting!

MBirkhofer
04-20-2016, 09:30 AM
damn, added my entry. forgot to mention royalties from DC now.