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juan.a.stewart
07-07-2015, 04:33 PM
Who the heck inks with sharpies? I've always been the marker kinda guy when it came to going over pencils but yeah of course, I know traditional ink for comics is better. I usually go over my own pencil in Photoshop but I hate how it always took away from my art, of course depending on how I do it but still. I want to spend less on ink, so, who the heck uses sharpies?

Oh wait... I forgot I can still adjust the scanned artwork lines and then continue from there in Photoshop. No, copic markers even though I love them, those things are too much. So, who the heck uses sharpies? The fine point sharpies are awesome by the way. Should I, yes, no, why or why not? :cool:

Bishop
07-07-2015, 04:43 PM
I have. The only real issue I have seen is that it doesn't age well. The Sharpie ink tends to turn blue or yellow over time.

juan.a.stewart
07-07-2015, 05:16 PM
Yeah Bishop, I've noticed that too. Part of me was saying just do it and have it ready for scanning and then just do the rest via computer, and who cares if the traditional stuff looks like piss over the years, ha, ha, ha... but no... what if some soul... no, no, what if my fans (yeah I dint forget 'bout y'all) like my stuff down the road and wants the traditional piece? What if man?!

I'm just gonna have to leave it penciled and then do the rest in Photoshop. Yeah, I guess so... why? Because I ain't spending a lot of money on freaking INKS! (end of whiny spending money on ink rant) Yeah, I guess I'm just gonna go back to what I usually do.

Did someone just mention get an inker? I must be hearing voices... maybe in the future but for now I'll just harass myself. Hmm, yup... it's just gonna be same old thing for now, I'll find a way.

Stewart Vernon
07-07-2015, 05:28 PM
I'm using Sharpies right now myself... I do know the aging doesn't go well, especially on some paper... but I don't have anything old enough to really see how bad it might get.

For my immediate use, since I scan everything anyway, it's fine... but yeah, if I ever became famous I suppose my original art might not hold up well over time. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it, though... otherwise I could spend myself into the poor house with the better pens on the off-chance that I get super-famous one day! :)

Bishop
07-07-2015, 05:53 PM
Yeah Bishop, I've noticed that too. Part of me was saying just do it and have it ready for scanning and then just do the rest via computer, and who cares if the traditional stuff looks like piss over the years, ha, ha, ha... but no... what if some soul... no, no, what if my fans (yeah I dint forget 'bout y'all) like my stuff down the road and wants the traditional piece? What if man?!

I'm just gonna have to leave it penciled and then do the rest in Photoshop. Yeah, I guess so... why? Because I ain't spending a lot of money on freaking INKS! (end of whiny spending money on ink rant) Yeah, I guess I'm just gonna go back to what I usually do.

Did someone just mention get an inker? I must be hearing voices... maybe in the future but for now I'll just harass myself. Hmm, yup... it's just gonna be same old thing for now, I'll find a way.

I find inking to be much more natural feeling in Manga Studio. If you haven't tried that you may want to look into it.

juan.a.stewart
07-07-2015, 11:25 PM
Bishop, if you are using Manga Studio to do those drawings that you posted on your thread, then I'm sold I'll get it. The thing is, I'm used to the pen tool in Photoshop, that's how I do it. What you use with Manga Studio, if you say pen and tablet, then at least let me know if it has a pen tool like the one in Photoshop, because I don't use a wacom.

Stewart, you are famous, you're on Digital Webbing! So spend, and spend away! No... spend wisely and no, I'm the only one who thinks he's famous because he's on DW. Life is short so let me have my fame here (crickets sounds in the background after that statement).

Yeah, I will get Manga Studio... but wait... isn't that the same as just having pissy looking artwork un-inked, slash, sharpie inked artwork? My point is the traditional piece still loses. I'm just thinking out loud with that last comment. In the end I will get Manga Studio, but right now I got a strong relationship with the pen tool of Photoshop.

Stewart Vernon
07-07-2015, 11:30 PM
Yeah, the downside to all digital is you don't have original art to sell. That's part of why I'm trying to get better with pen/pencil lately. Also, because if I'm ever at a convention again I'd like to feel more comfortable about being able to do something of decent quality in a reasonable amount of time.

At the same time... I need to get stronger with drawing in photoshop. I do most drawing in Illustrator... I use photoshop for other things... but I can't deny there are some abilities to do things in photoshop with different digital brushes that come closer to hand-drawn than what I do with Illustrator.

juan.a.stewart
07-07-2015, 11:43 PM
You know what Stewart? Screw it. At this point unless someone wants something done traditionally I'm not sweating it. I'll spend the money for a traditional piece but in the times we're in I'll just be concern with digital inks. Most people I know just want stuff digitally crisp anyway.

That Manga Studio line work does look more traditional than Photoshop tho'. Illustrator? Yeah, you'll be able to get stuff done much more easier in Photoshop only because the workstation is easier for drawing compared to Illustrator.

vartemis
07-08-2015, 12:43 AM
I find india ink a lot easier to fill in spot blacks than sharpies if I use a brush. In a pinch I use sharpies, but after doing a night scene I was getting a good buzz on after breaking out a Magnum to fill in the sky.

Bishop
07-08-2015, 08:27 AM
Bishop, if you are using Manga Studio to do those drawings that you posted on your thread, then I'm sold I'll get it. The thing is, I'm used to the pen tool in Photoshop, that's how I do it. What you use with Manga Studio, if you say pen and tablet, then at least let me know if it has a pen tool like the one in Photoshop, because I don't use a wacom.


Everything in my thread, except for the color on the Thing, is 100% Manga Studio. The only things I am using PS for illustration-wise right now are colors and file compression (Save For Web).

However, I am using Manga Studio with a Cintiq tablet. For me, that makes the drawing experience very natural. However, the pen tool is more like a traditional pen/crowquill with excellent pressure sensitivity.

If I remember correctly, the pen tool in PS is very different, as it creates points with handles that are used to refine/create curves, etc. I have not seen a tool like that in Manga Studio, but I haven't looked either. That tool in PS always gave me a headache.

Duane Korslund
07-08-2015, 09:38 AM
Yeah, the Pen tool in Ps is more like creating a vector line in Illustrator...without it being a vector line. It makes curves more smooth, and has a more polished/vectory look on lines.
I used to use it a lot, but have since resorted to inking brushes only in PS...of course I use an Intous tablet to draw. If you're not using a tablet, then the pen tool is your friend.
That said, I STRONGLY suggest getting a tablet, even if its a bamboo (they're pretty inexpensive).
I have Manga Studio EX and keep meaning to learn it, I think im just stuck in photoshop because that's what Im used to, and its what I know...lol.

Bishop
07-08-2015, 09:56 AM
I have Manga Studio EX and keep meaning to learn it, I think im just stuck in photoshop because that's what Im used to, and its what I know...lol.

That was my situation until I made myself use MS. I uninstalled PS and made myself use PS for a week (a couple of hours per night). I fully expected to break my promise to myself and reinstall PS within a day or two, but I stuck with it. I had to ask some questions on the MS forums to figure a few things out, but at the end of the week I felt no need to reinstall PS, and didn't until about a month later when I needed to color an FoJ piece for the last Kickstarter. Now, I can't imagine going back to PS for drawing. I use PS for a lot of other things, and I still have a lot to learn about MS.

I also love how easy MS makes it to create sequential pages. It is very simple to create a panel. In MS the panel creation automates the creation of a masked, layered folder that can be resized or moved at will. This can be done in PS, but it takes a LOT more time and effort.

Duane Korslund
07-08-2015, 09:58 AM
I also love how easy MS makes it to create sequential pages. It is very simple to create a panel. In MS the panel creation automates the creation of a masked, layered folder that can be resized or moved at will. This can be done in PS, but it takes a LOT more time and effort.

LOL that sounds a million times easier.

Bishop
07-08-2015, 11:31 AM
LOL that sounds a million times easier.

For me, that feature alone makes it worth the purchase. I've been working on a small private story with my daughter and this has saved countless hours of frustration.

juan.a.stewart
07-08-2015, 05:45 PM
What's all this talk about whether I order cheeseburger with my fries, who cares? I like large fries and lettuce and tomatoes and... oh you guys are on topic... Boobies, booty and thongs? Nope, you guys are on topic.

Josh, you went old school for me with those magnums. Ever since I went to copics from prisma, I used the thick copic marker stick, only because it usually comes with a re-fill. India ink is real good, yea because it's jet black all the time. I use the copic marker set that comes with every point size including the brush point. That brush point is awesome but I can't help but stick to what feels like a pen, fine points.

Bishop, ya killing me with that tablet talk, you too Kors. I got a small ass Bamboo tablet but that thing is dumb because it's hard to move around the pen unless you have baby hands, the size of a month year old... Ha, ha, ha imagine a grown man having a month year old hands, that's funny, someone draw that a.s.a.p! Cintiqs! Man those things are way too much.

The pen tool for me in PS was a pain in the behind back in the day but what got me good at it was going over my drawings until it just became second nature, and now I can't remember ever having problems with the pen tool. All you guys that use Cintiqs can kiss my caramel ass! No I'm kidding... Cintiqs...

I'm going to get me MS eventually and a Cintiq too, but until then I'm just going to keep it to the sharpies or copics instead. If I get annoyed with them I'll stick to finding some way with PS. I mean at the end of the day it's about having a good quality image on screen and or print right? It could be done scanning the image in and then hooking it up from there. Who cares if the actual pages look like pissy, piss, piss years from now (used that last sentence to immaturely mention pissy, piss, piss: and within these parenthesis too). I'll find a way. You know what if someone can show me comics done in markers that'll be helpful. Most people are doing it digitally anyway and that's my point.

Bishop
07-08-2015, 05:50 PM
Ethan VanSciver does his drawing with Rapidograph technical pens. They aren't markers, but that should give you a feel for what is possible with using unconventional tools.

juan.a.stewart
07-08-2015, 06:10 PM
What?! I haven't used those things in years, well technically copics fine points are about the same, but I never really thought a comic artist would used them like that, no really, because of the importance the traditional tools offer. Ethan Van Sciver work looks awesome for using those things, I'm impressed, why, because I know how the line weight can look dead sometimes and choppy if you try to add more weight to them with those tech pens. Maybe that's just because I'm garbage with them. Really? He uses those things? I thought his work was done with brushes.

Newt
07-08-2015, 06:43 PM
Old thread of interest. (http://www.digitalwebbing.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-96409.html)

As has been pretty well covered already, the main issue is whether you care about your original. If you do, don't use Sharpies. If you don't, go for it.

Besides the fading/discoloration issue, I find Sharpies don't produce the rich, consistent, smooth black of good India ink (which is itself getting harder to find). Doesn't matter in repro or scan, but a sharpie-inked page looks crappy in person.

BTW, if you want marker convenience with a more reliable ink, try a watercolor brush pen (http://www.jerrysartarama.com/discount-art-supplies/brushes-and-palette-knives/watercolor-brushes/creative-mark-watercolor-brushes/aquastroke-watercolor-brush-pens-and-sets/aquastroke-watercolor-brush-pens.htm?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping&gclid=COjsyvS_zMYCFUE7gQodqcUMzA). You can fill the reservoir with your favorite ink and spot blacks to your heart's content.

Bishop
07-08-2015, 08:51 PM
What?! I haven't used those things in years, well technically copics fine points are about the same, but I never really thought a comic artist would used them like that, no really, because of the importance the traditional tools offer. Ethan Van Sciver work looks awesome for using those things, I'm impressed, why, because I know how the line weight can look dead sometimes and choppy if you try to add more weight to them with those tech pens. Maybe that's just because I'm garbage with them. Really? He uses those things? I thought his work was done with brushes.

He was using them as recently as 2 years ago. Looking at some more recent pictures of him drawing it looks like he may be using microns now. No real difference though when it comes to the end result.

juan.a.stewart
07-08-2015, 10:12 PM
Thanks Newt for the info and the links. Roy's comment in that thread is hi-larious, ha, ha,ha... I'll find a way. The story about George Perez and Arthur Adams using markers is something I need to see.

Bishop thanks for that info.

DaveyDouble
07-09-2015, 06:22 AM
Get a Surface Pro 1 or 2.

juan.a.stewart
07-09-2015, 10:24 AM
Davey I see what you're saying, draw in Photoshop onscreen, that could work. Having one of those things is like having a PC anyway right? How many people are doing this? Something like this could force the prices of Cintiqs to drop, right?

Bishop
07-09-2015, 10:43 AM
Davey I see what you're saying, draw in Photoshop onscreen, that could work. Having one of those things is like having a PC anyway right? How many people are doing this? Something like this could force the prices of Cintiqs to drop, right?

Doubtful. The cintiq has more levels of sensitivity and brand recognition/loyalty in the industry. I think it will impact the Cintiq Companion, though.

juan.a.stewart
07-09-2015, 11:35 AM
Bishop the Buzz Kill, just when I was having high hopes. I know a Cintiq is made for drawing compared to the Surface Pro but still. The way I'm looking at it is, I can do the same thing I would with my PC but on screen with a pen instead of using a mouse.

Bishop you know you're dancing around talking about Cintiqs being in your possession and not mine. Even tho' ya don't see yourself that way, that's how I see you in my head:

"Hey look at me, I have a Cintiq and you don't. Don't get a Surface get a Cintiq, you know you want one. Come on, get it, just get it, get one, you know you want one, even though you can't get one yet, get one, you know you want one."

You're saying this while dancing in my head, waving your Cintiq in your hand with a funny looking hat on... yes of course ya wearing clothes, but waving the Cintiq while dancing and taunting me ain't helping, I'm just saying.

Doubtful. The cintiq has more levels of sensitivity and brand recognition/loyalty in the industry. I think it will impact the Cintiq Companion, though.

That's what you say... and you say it as if you sponsor them... stop dancing.

DaveyDouble
07-09-2015, 12:55 PM
Surface Pro 1 and 2 both use a Wacom panel under the screen with 1024 levels of pressure. No tilt sensitivity though.

I have a Surface Pro 1, had Fujitsu Stylistic before that, ST6012 and ST5112.

10-inch screen is a bit cramped in PS and MS but I use Sketchbook Pro, which is a lot easier to work in from a pen/paper point of view.

Surface Pro 1 and 2 are about the same level of power as a Macbook Air or the same year. It won't hack NORAD but it'll let you pencil, ink, colour and letter your pages without breaking your bank or back.

Mine's in my 12L backpack, along with a Nexus 7 and umbrella and about 3 ton of USB cables.

Duane Korslund
07-09-2015, 01:05 PM
I've got a surface pro 2, I love it, even with photoshop. My ONLY gripe is that the screen is a little cramped. I think I'm going to try out Sketchbook Pro with it, see if that works better. I also heard that Manga Studio EX is way roomier than Photoshop on it...any substantiation to that rumor?
I wish the Ms stuck with wacom digitizers for the Surface Pro 3...the larger screen makes it ALMOST perfect.

Bishop
07-09-2015, 02:08 PM
Bishop the Buzz Kill, just when I was having high hopes. I know a Cintiq is made for drawing compared to the Surface Pro but still. The way I'm looking at it is, I can do the same thing I would with my PC but on screen with a pen instead of using a mouse.

Bishop you know you're dancing around talking about Cintiqs being in your possession and not mine. Even tho' ya don't see yourself that way, that's how I see you in my head:

"Hey look at me, I have a Cintiq and you don't. Don't get a Surface get a Cintiq, you know you want one. Come on, get it, just get it, get one, you know you want one, even though you can't get one yet, get one, you know you want one."

You're saying this while dancing in my head, waving your Cintiq in your hand with a funny looking hat on... yes of course ya wearing clothes, but waving the Cintiq while dancing and taunting me ain't helping, I'm just saying.



That's what you say... and you say it as if you sponsor them... stop dancing.


The Surface can be a good solution. I was just stating that I don't think the Surface will bring about a price drop on Cintiq's.

Oh, and it's not just in your head. This was me as I typed that last response...

http://rs180.pbsrc.com/albums/x121/Tinman4ever_photos/gifcarltondance.gif~c200

juan.a.stewart
07-09-2015, 03:22 PM
HA, HA, HA... I knew it, I just knew it. OK there's no need to rub it in.

Have most of the comic artists moved to MS from PS? I know Freddie Williams was at least using PS to do comics. I forgot if Sean Murphy uses MS, when I was at dART, I forgot if he was asked that. I know Skottie Young uses that... oh but most of these guys are using Cintiqs... :mad: curse you all! Curse you!

Newt
07-09-2015, 03:42 PM
Don't use them devil boxes! If you're not smudging sooty water on pressed plant pulp with a stick, you're doing it wrong!

It's like you guys want the machines to rule us...

Bishop
07-09-2015, 04:26 PM
It's like you guys want the machines to rule us...

I figure that's the only way I'll ever get a vacation.

juan.a.stewart
07-09-2015, 04:47 PM
Don't use them devil boxes! If you're not smudging sooty water on pressed plant pulp with a stick, you're doing it wrong!

It's like you guys want the machines to rule us...

Ha, ha, ha... we all gotta face it man, them devil boxes are like SkyNet. The more people can whip out artwork quicker with them then the more we'll be using less sooty water on pressed plant pulp with a stick.

Rob Norton
07-09-2015, 06:13 PM
i think all things have been covered pretty well. but just to add to it all... sharpies are garbage and I would only use them in the case of crappy sketches I don't give a shit about.
I only work traditionally, and any time I do anything of worth, its on quality paper, with quality ink(whether from a bottle or good drawing pens).

this has come in handy where for one...I know my stuff wont fade and look like trash years down the road..which may only matter to me in the long run, but I still want that stuff to look good. not faded yellow.

and I also hope to leave this stuff to my 2 young boys, who I hope will look on this stuff with interest and wonder, especially when they are older and im dead and see the stuff that their father worked on way back when.. like I wish I could do with some of the stuff my father tells me he used to have and threw away, not thinking his kids would be interested in it.

and another reason to use quality shit.. my kitchen sink started leaking and that water trailed right down on top of my desk in the basement, and soaked several pages. now they got water damaged...like wrinkly and shit, but the ink didn't run on a single one of them. I could STILL scan them and with some minor clean up, they would look the same as pre flood damage.

so...quality materials goes a long way. I cant draw seriously on things like printer paper with a generic #2 pencil. I do much better on nice solid art board with my nice pencils and pens and brushes and inks. just pushes me to be better(now how good I am or am not is up for debate, sure)

rob

DaveyDouble
07-09-2015, 06:33 PM
I grew up drawing on copier paper with biros, so... Whatever's to hand when the moment strikes.

I've burnt through pads of Bristol and only had a lighter wallet to show for it too.
When I used to work traditionally, it was Rotring mechanical pencils and Pentel Brush Pens only for a while, but I used to fill with Sharpies and cheap chisel point markers.
No point wasting expensive ink on areas that were likely to get touched up after scanning anyway.

juan.a.stewart
07-09-2015, 11:02 PM
So here we are in the wild, wild west and we have Rob letting us know once again how much it would be a mistake to use sharpies. It's a real good one but what really got my attention was how the importance of preserving art so that future generations can benefit from it was explained, well ya know what? It's that kind of information that will have someone thinking about using crappy materials or my name isn't John August Stewart. :har:

Rob, thanks for that info. It's good to know that you were able to save those artworks. I think I'll stick to copics for now. I'm considering on getting those materials that will allow me to be smudging sooty water on pressed plant pulp with a stick. Yeah, doing things without machines does pushes you to be better, that's for sure.

Davey doing what works for what you want is the name of the game. Retouching stuff that's gonna be scanned in is exactly why I mentioned this sharpie mumbo jumbo in the first place. For me it's annoying seeing black and white lines that needs retouching. I'm just gonna find a way with what I got.

Cintiqs... Yes I'm jealous of those who uses them! Jealous I say! Smudging sooty water on pressed plant pulp with a stick should be our priority! It's enuff we use the Phewtewshep to color, the Minga Stewdi-O to create panels, halftones and things... enuff I say! Enuff! We should gather these machines and throw them into the ABYSS before we forget knowing what it is like to walk... umm... :blink:

OK, I came to my senses. :cool: