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gmartyt
05-14-2015, 03:09 AM
This is a little web-comic I've been working on. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated, particularly if this is a terrible idea.

Setting: A small fantasy village, muddy streets and all. Think Lord of the Rings.

Simon: 16-18 years old. Average looking. Wears peasant clothes.

Sara: 16-18 years old. Average looking. Wears peasant clothes.

Sophia: 10-12 years old. Wears a pretty dress and a tiara. She constantly has a stupid smile on her face. Her eyes are slightly unfocused.

Black Knight: Wears obnoxiously large, black armor.

Comic 1

Panel 1. Shot of a small village. Simon and Sara are walking and talking among people in peasant garb going about their day. Put them off to the side so that they blend in.

CAP:
An ordinary village.

CAP:
Or so it would seem …


Panel 2. Simon and Sara are now in the center of the panel.

CAP:
For among these common villagers resides a hero.


Panel 3. Close-up of Simon. Use an angle that makes him look heroic.

CAP:
His name ... is Simon.

CAP:
He is about to go on a journey that will save the world.


Panel 4. Simon has shuddered, a look of dread on his face. Sara is looking back over her shoulder at Simon, mildly surprised.

NO COPY


Comic 2

Panel 1. Simon, who is in the center panel, is inspecting his hands, confused. Sara, concerned, is turning to face Simon.

SARA:
You okay?

SIMON:
I think so.


Panel 2. Simon is pushing back his hair with his left hand. Sara is now facing Simon, her arms crossed.

SIMON:
I just have the strangest feeling--


Panel 3. Sophia has appeared behind Simon, wearing a stupid smile. Simon's left hand is slightly further back on his head. Sara, who is looking at Sophia, has taken a step back in surprise.

SIMON:
--that something bad is about to happen.


Panel 4. Sophia is yelling. Simon is cringing. Sara, curious, is craning her neck to look at Sophia.

SOPHIA(burst):
Hi, Simon!


Comic 3

Panel 1. Sophia is standing with a stupid grin on her face. Simon is angrily yelling at Sophia. Sara, annoyed, is pushing her way past Simon towards Sophia.

SIMON(burst):
What?!

SARA:
Take it easy! She's just a kid!


Panel 2. Sara is bent over and is smiling at Sophia. Simon is behind Sara, giving Sophia a dirty glance.

SARA:
Did you need us for something?

SIMON(low):
Stupid kid.


Panel 3. Sophia is yelling. Sara and Simon look surprised.

SOPHIA(burst):
I'm not talking to you!


Panel 4. Sophia is running towards the camera. Sara is watching Sophia, confused, as she is starting to stand up. Simon, grumpy, is looking off to the right.

SOPHIA(burst):
C'mon, Simon!


Comic 4

Panel 1. Sophia is frolicking in the middle of the street, playing in the mud.

SOPHIA(burst):
Laaaa la laaaa.

SARA(op):
Is it just me, or is there something ... off about her?

SIMON(op):
She's a kid, Sara. Kids are stupid.


Panel 2. Sara has her arms crossed and is looking at Simon. Simon, clearly in a bad mood, is looking off to the right.

SARA:
Don't say that. What if there really is something wrong with her?

SIMON:
Hmph.


Panel 3. Sara is looking towards the camera. Simon is walking towards the right.

SARA:
Whatever it is, we can't just leave her on her own.


Comic 5

Panel 1. Sara, annoyed, is facing Simon, her hands on her hips. Simon, clearly in a bad mood, is walking to the right.

SARA:
What are you doing?

SIMON:
What does it look like?


Panel 2. Sara is gesturing in the direction of Sophia with her right arm, her left hand still on her hips. Simon is looking back over his shoulder at Sara.

SARA:
What about the girl?

SIMON:
Who cares? It's not like anything will happen to her.


Panel 3. Sara and Simon look surprised.

SOPHIA(op,burst):
Aieeee!


Panel 4. The black knight is carrying Sophia in one arm as he is riding away from the camera.

BLACK KNIGHT(burst):
Hahaha! You'll never catch me, Simon!


Panel 5. Sara and Simon look bewildered.

SOPHIA(op,burst):
Save me, Simon!

Steven Forbes
05-14-2015, 03:42 AM
Punctuation.

I just lost my mind a little bit.

Punctuation.

gmartyt
05-14-2015, 04:20 AM
Too many commas in the the panel descriptions? I was told in my last TPG submission not to use short sentences. I'm still working on it.

Improper use of ellipses? I tried looking into it, but everything I found was vague regarding spacing. The one thing I found said that there should be spaces before and after each period. I tried looking up their use in comics, but all I found was what they mean.

The first panel? That's my bad.

Whichever it is, sorry, and thanks.

Steven Forbes
05-14-2015, 04:29 AM
I'm not a fan of spaces before and after the ellipsis. It doesn't make sense to me. You don't put a space before and after a comma. You don't put a space before a period. Why put one before an ellipsis?

But that's what drives my head to the occasional 'splosion.

Luke Noonan
05-14-2015, 10:04 AM
Too many commas in the the panel descriptions? I was told in my last TPG submission not to use short sentences. I'm still working on it.

Improper use of ellipses? I tried looking into it, but everything I found was vague regarding spacing. The one thing I found said that there should be spaces before and after each period. I tried looking up their use in comics, but all I found was what they mean.

The first panel? That's my bad.

Whichever it is, sorry, and thanks.

No spaces between the opening brackets and the words preceding them, ie you put: SIMON(burst) when it should be: SIMON (burst).

Kiyoko, Rin
05-14-2015, 03:43 PM
Well, if we're giving reviews based purely on punctuation, then I'd swap the double dashes in Comic 2, panels 2 and 3 for ellipses. Technically, Simon's not being interrupted (which is where I'd use the double dash), he's spreading one complete sentence over two panels.

I'll do a full review over the weekend.

Luke Noonan
05-15-2015, 12:31 PM
Well, if we're giving reviews based purely on punctuation, then I'd swap the double dashes in Comic 2, panels 2 and 3 for ellipses. Technically, Simon's not being interrupted (which is where I'd use the double dash), he's spreading one complete sentence over two panels.

I'll do a full review over the weekend.

I've seen double-dashes used to break dialogue into two bubbles many times, so I wouldn't criticize a script for that.

Kiyoko, Rin
05-15-2015, 05:35 PM
I've seen double-dashes used to break dialogue into two bubbles many times, so I wouldn't criticize a script for that.

I would; and I did.

Seeing it in a professional script doesn't mean it's right. I've just finished reading an Image comic where neither the writer nor the editor knew to put a comma before a vocative noun, Luke Noonan. (See what I did there?)

If a double dash is used with an abrupt, mid-sentence change of topic, then I'd agree with it. But here, with a single phrase spread over two panels? No.

(But, hey, 'sjust my two cents.)

gmartyt
05-16-2015, 03:34 AM
Punctuation.

I just lost my mind a little bit.

Punctuation.

That might be the most terrifying thing you could possibly say about a script. It'll be days before that comment leaves my nightmares.

I'm not a fan of spaces before and after the ellipsis. It doesn't make sense to me. You don't put a space before and after a comma. You don't put a space before a period. Why put one before an ellipsis?

I looked into it a little more. Turns out I was wrong. Who would've guessed?

Everything else is useful feedback. Thanks.

Kiyoko, Rin
05-17-2015, 12:06 PM
The Legend of Simon

This is a little web-comic I've been working on. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated, particularly if this is a terrible idea.

Setting: A small fantasy village, muddy streets and all. Think Lord of the Rings. (You mean it’s like the Shire? Or Bree?)

Simon: 16-18 years old. Average looking. Wears peasant clothes.

Sara: 16-18 years old. Average looking. Wears peasant clothes. (I’m assuming you’ve got some reference pictures.)

Sophia: 10-12 years old. Wears a pretty dress and a tiara. She constantly has a stupid smile on her face. (“Constantly?” She shouts an awful lot in these comics, then she gets kidnapped – all of this whilst smiling?) Her eyes are slightly unfocused.

Black Knight: Wears obnoxiously large, black armor. (Plate mail? Chain mail?)

Comic 1

Panel 1. Shot of a small village. Simon and Sara are walking and talking among people in peasant garb going about their day. (Wouldn’t they spend their days working the fields?) Put them off to the side so that they blend in.

CAP:
An ordinary village.

CAP:
Or so it would seem …


Panel 2. Simon and Sara are now in the center of the panel. (Doing…?)

CAP:
For among these common villagers resides a hero.


Panel 3. Close-up of Simon. Use an angle that makes him look heroic.

CAP:
His name ... is Simon.

CAP:
He is about to go on a journey that will save the world.


Panel 4. Simon has shuddered, a look of dread on his face. Sara is looking back over her shoulder at Simon, mildly surprised.

NO COPY

(If you’re going to post this as a web comic, I wouldn’t post this separately from Comic 2; have them posted together because, on its own, I don’t think enough happens in Comic 1 to make people come back for more. Also, the way it reads in isolation, Comic 1 doesn’t read like, “Simon has a bad feeling, which is explained in the next instalment,” it read to me like, “the omniscient narrator declares Simon will save the world and, as a result, Simon shuddered and felt dread.” I thought you’d given Simon the Deadpool-esque ability to read the captions around him in the panel, and that was what caused his reaction.)

Comic 2

Panel 1. Simon, who is in the center panel, is inspecting his hands, confused. Sara, concerned, is turning to face Simon.

SARA:
You okay?

SIMON:
I think so. (I’d have him stutter, or use an ellipsis, to reinforce his confusion. As written, he seems pretty lucid.)

Panel 2. Simon is pushing back his hair with his left hand. Sara is now facing Simon, her arms crossed.

SIMON:
I just have the strangest feeling-- (You could take this opportunity to slip her name in at the start.)


Panel 3. Sophia has appeared behind Simon, wearing a stupid smile. Simon's left hand is slightly further back on his head. Sara, who is looking at Sophia, has taken a step back in surprise.

SIMON:
--that something bad is about to happen. (This is a good introduction of Sophia’s character, but Sara’s surprise bothers me. We know from the blocking and their relative sizes that Sara’s reaction isn’t down to Sophia’s appearance, but Simon’s words on their own don’t seem that portentous. Does Simon have a history of prophecy and premonitions that would warrant his words to be taken so seriously. If not, then you probably need to quantify the bad feeling, flesh it out with horrific imagery and concrete examples.)


Panel 4. Sophia is yelling. Simon is cringing. Sara, curious, is craning her neck to look at Sophia.

SOPHIA(burst):
Hi, Simon!


Comic 3

Panel 1. Sophia is standing with a stupid grin on her face. Simon is angrily yelling at Sophia. Sara, annoyed, is pushing her way past Simon towards Sophia.

SIMON(burst):
What?!

SARA:
Take it easy! She's just a kid!


Panel 2. Sara is bent over and is smiling at Sophia. Simon is behind Sara, giving Sophia a dirty glance. (Um? Have you switched the camera to the other side? In the last panel, Sophia was at panel left, now Sara is, so either 1) you’ve had both Sara and Simon walk behind Sophia, then all of them turn to face each other 2) you’ve switched the camera to the other side… or 3) you’ve stopped describing from left to right. Whichever it is, you’ve thrown me.)

SARA:
Did you need us for something?

SIMON(low):
Stupid kid.


Panel 3. Sophia is yelling. Sara and Simon look surprised. (Camera switched again?)

SOPHIA(burst):
I'm not talking to you!


Panel 4. Sophia is running towards the camera. Sara is watching Sophia, confused, as she is starting to stand up. Simon, grumpy, is looking off to the right.

SOPHIA(burst):
C'mon, Simon!


Comic 4

Panel 1. Sophia is frolicking in the middle of the street, playing in the mud.

SOPHIA(burst):
Laaaa la laaaa.

SARA(op):
Is it just me, or is there something ... off about her? (Not sure how to take this. Sophia clearly knows Simon enough to call him by name, but as neither of the other two call Sophia by name, I don’t know if they’ve met her before. So Sara’s words here could mean either that Sophia’s mood is unusual today, or that she’s unusual, period.)

SIMON(op):
She's a kid, Sara. Kids are stupid.

Panel 2. Sara has her arms crossed and is looking at Simon. Simon, clearly in a bad mood, is looking off to the right.

SARA:
Don't say that. What if there really is something wrong with her?

SIMON:
Hmph.


Panel 3. Sara is looking towards the camera. Simon is walking towards the right.

SARA:
Whatever it is, we can't just leave her on her own. (Why not?)


Comic 5

Panel 1. Sara, annoyed, is facing Simon, her hands on her hips. Simon, clearly in a bad mood, is walking to the right.

SARA:
What are you doing?

SIMON:
What does it look like? (That’s actually a telling question: I don’t know what it looks like. I know that he’s walking away from Sara; but I don’t know if “right” means he’s walking towards / away from / equidistant to Sophia. Where is she in relation to him? Plus, Simon’s been looking off to panel right several times already; what’s he been staring at that’s made him walk towards it?)


Panel 2. Sara is gesturing in the direction of Sophia with her right arm, her left hand still on her hips. Simon is looking back over his shoulder at Sara.

SARA:
What about the girl? (Ah. Question answered; he’s walking away from Sophia, too. I’d put this line in the previous panel, that way I’d have no need to ask the question.)

SIMON:
Who cares? It's not like anything will happen to her. (Nice set up.)


Panel 3. Sara and Simon look surprised. (You should mention that they’re both looking towards whatever direction Sophia is.)

SOPHIA(op,burst):
Aieeee!


Panel 4. The black knight is carrying Sophia in one arm as he is riding away from the camera.

BLACK KNIGHT(burst):
Hahaha! You'll never catch me, Simon!


Panel 5. Sara and Simon look bewildered.

SOPHIA(op,burst):
Save me, Simon!

gmartyt
05-18-2015, 01:24 AM
Thanks for the detailed feedback, Rin.

Panel 2. Simon and Sara are now in the center of the panel. (Doing…?)

They're still walking and talking. I was under the impression that it only needs to be mentioned if it's changed.

Also, the way it reads in isolation, Comic 1 doesn’t read like, “Simon has a bad feeling, which is explained in the next instalment,” it read to me like, “the omniscient narrator declares Simon will save the world and, as a result, Simon shuddered and felt dread.” I thought you’d given Simon the Deadpool-esque ability to read the captions around him in the panel, and that was what caused his reaction.

It's supposed to be a little bit of both. His bad feeling was caused by what the omniscient narrator said.

This is a good introduction of Sophia’s character, but Sara’s surprise bothers me. We know from the blocking and their relative sizes that Sara’s reaction isn’t down to Sophia’s appearance, but Simon’s words on their own don’t seem that portentous.

Sara is supposed to be reacting to Sophia's sudden appearance. I'm sure there's a way this panel can be drawn so that Sara can see Sophia behind Simon.

Um? Have you switched the camera to the other side? In the last panel, Sophia was at panel left, now Sara is, so either 1) you’ve had both Sara and Simon walk behind Sophia, then all of them turn to face each other 2) you’ve switched the camera to the other side… or 3) you’ve stopped describing from left to right. Whichever it is, you’ve thrown me.

Sophia is still to the left of the panel. She hasn't moved, so I didn't mention it. I suppose it would help to just put "Sophia hasn't moved" at the beginning of the panel description.

Not sure how to take this. Sophia clearly knows Simon enough to call him by name, but as neither of the other two call Sophia by name, I don’t know if they’ve met her before. So Sara’s words here could mean either that Sophia’s mood is unusual today, or that she’s unusual, period.

Simon and Sara have never met Sophia before. I was afraid I wasn't very clear about this.

You should mention that they’re both looking towards whatever direction Sophia is.

They aren't. Not here at least. They are in panel five, though, so your point still stands.

Thanks again for the feedback.

SamRoads
05-18-2015, 09:25 AM
Hey. I have a couple of thoughts.

I don't think you have given your protagonists the best names. Simon, Sara and Sophia all begin with S, ad there's no need to do that and give your audience a few 'which one was that?' moments between Sophia and Sara.

"Panel 1. Sophia is standing with a stupid grin on her face. Simon is angrily yelling at Sophia. Sara, annoyed, is pushing her way past Simon towards Sophia.

SIMON(burst):
What?!

SARA:
Take it easy! She's just a kid!"

This panel needs two panels. This snapshot of time has Sara pushing past Simon, annoyed at him for angrily yelling. But he is in the middle of an angry yell of a short word.

I'm very unsure as to what all the dialogue means. I think Sara is messing about, Simon is annoyed and Sara is understanding. Except Sara thinks Sophia might have learning difficulties, but Simon thinks she doesn't. Is that right? I have to do a lot of inference to get to this point, which seems more like you'd expect from a slice of life comic than what otherwise looks like a light hearted webcomic.

gmartyt
05-19-2015, 02:49 AM
Thanks for the feedback, Sam. (Felix?)

I'm very unsure as to what all the dialogue means. I think Sara (I assume you meant Sophia, unless you're making a point about them having similar names) is messing about, Simon is annoyed and Sara is understanding. Except Sara thinks Sophia might have learning difficulties, but Simon thinks she doesn't. Is that right? I have to do a lot of inference to get to this point, which seems more like you'd expect from a slice of life comic than what otherwise looks like a light hearted webcomic.

That's what I intended it to be. I'm going to go back and change the dialogue in Comic 4 so that it's a little clearer.

Thanks again.

SamRoads
05-19-2015, 11:10 AM
No worries.

Don't forget that whilst the story and dialogue may be all inference and sub text (which is good!) your artist needs utterly clear, unambiguous explanations of what is going on. And they may not pay much heed to the dialogue.

gmartyt
05-20-2015, 01:18 AM
I meant that you were right about what the dialogue is about, not that I intentionally wanted there to be a lot of inference. (Clarity seems to be an issue of mine.)