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johnjohn
02-11-2015, 08:51 PM
I am not formatting my stuff and catching grief as a result.

Here's the problem - I don't understand what I am doing wrong, so I keep doing it and most likely am coming across as being a jerk to the people who've told me about my formatting as a result.

I did look at Steven's Comix Tribe piece about formatting but didn't pick up much other than page breaks, which is probably a good indication of exactly how little I know.

I have done Gooogle searches, but because I don't know how to refine the search I keep getting computer tech results.
So, what should I be looking for?
What key words should I be adding to formatting so I can narrow down the results to something usefull.

Stinty
02-11-2015, 08:58 PM
I used the Comics Experience Template found here:

http://www.comicbookscriptarchive.com/archive/the-scripts/

I muddled around using a few different versions, but I have settled on this as being the clearest and easiest to read/follow.

Also on that page are examples of scripts used by various, well known writers. One of them is bound suit your style.

johnjohn
02-11-2015, 09:01 PM
Cheers, much appreciated.

Schuyler
02-11-2015, 09:12 PM
I am not formatting my stuff and catching grief as a result.

Here's the problem - I don't understand what I am doing wrong, so I keep doing it and most likely am coming across as being a jerk to the people who've told me about my formatting as a result.

I did look at Steven's Comix Tribe piece about formatting but didn't pick up much other than page breaks, which is probably a good indication of exactly how little I know.

I have done Gooogle searches, but because I don't know how to refine the search I keep getting computer tech results.
So, what should I be looking for?
What key words should I be adding to formatting so I can narrow down the results to something usefull.

There was a thread, back in the day, about this. It was actually pretty helpful. It was a about setting up your styles in Microsoft Word. I'm going to try and find it for you.

Schuyler
02-11-2015, 09:26 PM
Here is some of it. But, there is more somewhere about styles. I'll keep looking.

http://www.mediafire.com/view/dg4cdb6xwgy5cec/Comics_Script_Format_101_2011__.pdf

bramjm
02-11-2015, 09:31 PM
Doing what Nate Piekos says (http://blambot.com/comicscript.shtml) will make your letterer happy.

He mentions Fred Van Lente, who has posted some resources (http://www.fredvanlente.com/comix.html) of his own.

Antony Johnston's a big user of Scrivener, and talks about his process here (http://antonyjohnston.com/resources/setup.php).

The important thing is that everyone one your team can understand what's going on; don't just follow a format because someone's said it's a standard if it isn't useful to you.


(Schuyler ó indie comics sale at Big Adventure on Saturday afternoon, stop by.)

Schuyler
02-11-2015, 10:00 PM
(Schuyler ó indie comics sale at Big Adventure on Saturday afternoon, stop by.)

I work 9-5 that day, but I'll come by after.

Schuyler
02-11-2015, 10:47 PM
I couldn't find it, but I'll just try and sum up what I've learned.

The penciler is the first person to see your script and chances are you will have a chance to edit it before it goes to a letterer. Unless, you are submitting your script to a company. Then I would check the guidelines they provide.

So, that being said.

PAGE ONE (four panels)

Panel 1. I like to bold and underline each new page. Always use the page break, but also use the enter key when you start a new panel or piece of dialogue. That may be obvious, but it wasn't for me.

CHARACTER 1:
Most scripts I see, have the characters names in all capitals. Then you hit enter again to actually write the dialogue. This way the letterer can copy and paste the dialogue with ease.

SFX:
Anything with letters in your panel has to be written in the copy area. That means SFX, signs, captions, dialogue. Anything with letters.

Panel 2. I also like to bold each new panel so that it is obvious where the panels start and stop. If the panel has nothing for the letterer, you can write no copy. I am not saying you have to.

NO COPY

Panel 3. In the end it just has to be clear. Remember who you are writing it for. If you have a penciler but you don't know them that well, get to know them. If you don't have one, write the script so it is clear to the editor. If you don't have an editor, get some feedback here.

NO COPY

Panel 4. My artist wants me to lay out the whole page and draw the panels, and then put the panel description, and the dialogue all in the box it's supposed to fit in. Jerk. My point is, no one artist is going to like it the same. It seems like you have looked at a lot of stuff but have not found something that clicked. I think that's okay, but in the end, format will only make your script more legible. It will not make a better story. So, If there are bigger fish to fry (because you're a cook) then maybe format is not so important right now.

NO COPY

-Sky

bramjm
02-12-2015, 12:40 AM
I work 9-5 that day, but I'll come by after. Sale's due to run only until 4:00; if you get a few minutes, even just to meet anyone, stop by.

Steven Forbes
02-12-2015, 01:41 PM
I have no idea how someone can go to school in 'Murica, graduate, want to write, and not understand simple things like paragraphs, punctuation, and pagination.

I don't get it.

Comic book formatting is easy. There's no one single format out there. Comic book formatting is about two things: legibility, and consistency, and in that order. Legibility should actually be replaced with "the ability to be understood", but these two concepts really go hand in hand, and are almost interchangeable.

If you don't understand the simple things, then go back to your elementary school teacher--the one who concentrated on teaching you English--and tell them that they failed, and you are a product of that failure. You can then show them your writing, and give them both my email address and business number if they want to talk about it. Business line is 520-344-4633. Email is in the signature.

If you don't understand how to copy a format without being explicitly told why and when to put spaces between lines for legibility, then you have bigger problems than formatting.

Yes, this makes me sound like a jerk. I don't care. This is a failure of the American education system in one form or another. This is not rocket science.

Go pick up a novel. Any will do. Then pick up a non-fiction book, a magazine, and any professional comic script you can get your hands on. Copy them, word for word. As you copy them, understand what's going on with each word and grouping of words. Then you may begin to start to understand the simple things.

And I'm serious about going to your teacher. Actually, all of your teachers. They all failed you. Give them all my number.

Schuyler
02-12-2015, 01:59 PM
I have no idea how someone can go to school in 'Murica, graduate, want to write, and not understand simple things like paragraphs, punctuation, and pagination.

I don't get it.

Comic book formatting is easy. There's no one single format out there. Comic book formatting is about two things: legibility, and consistency, and in that order. Legibility should actually be replaced with "the ability to be understood", but these two concepts really go hand in hand, and are almost interchangeable.

If you don't understand the simple things, then go back to your elementary school teacher--the one who concentrated on teaching you English--and tell them that they failed, and you are a product of that failure. You can then show them your writing, and give them both my email address and business number if they want to talk about it. Business line is 520-344-4633. Email is in the signature.

If you don't understand how to copy a format without being explicitly told why and when to put spaces between lines for legibility, then you have bigger problems than formatting.

Yes, this makes me sound like a jerk. I don't care. This is a failure of the American education system in one form or another. This is not rocket science.

Go pick up a novel. Any will do. Then pick up a non-fiction book, a magazine, and any professional comic script you can get your hands on. Copy them, word for word. As you copy them, understand what's going on with each word and grouping of words. Then you may begin to start to understand the simple things.

And I'm serious about going to your teacher. Actually, all of your teachers. They all failed you. Give them all my number.

Um... Wow, Steven. I feel like I missed part of the conversation.

Unless, this rant is directed at me, I am going to abstain from the rest of this conversation.

Good luck, johnjohn.

-Sky

Steven Forbes
02-12-2015, 02:28 PM
Um... Wow, Steven. I feel like I missed part of the conversation.

Unless, this rant is directed at me, I am going to abstain from the rest of this conversation.

Good luck, johnjohn.

-Sky

That...that's funny! Made me laugh out loud.

No, this isn't directed at you, Schuyler.

Rant? Maybe a little bit. But I'd say it's wholly justified.

Morganza
02-12-2015, 03:52 PM
I have no idea how someone can go to school in 'Murica, graduate, want to write, and not understand simple things like paragraphs, punctuation, and pagination.

I don't get it.

Comic book formatting is easy. There's no one single format out there. Comic book formatting is about two things: legibility, and consistency, and in that order. Legibility should actually be replaced with "the ability to be understood", but these two concepts really go hand in hand, and are almost interchangeable.

If you don't understand the simple things, then go back to your elementary school teacher--the one who concentrated on teaching you English--and tell them that they failed, and you are a product of that failure. You can then show them your writing, and give them both my email address and business number if they want to talk about it. Business line is 520-344-4633. Email is in the signature.

If you don't understand how to copy a format without being explicitly told why and when to put spaces between lines for legibility, then you have bigger problems than formatting.

Yes, this makes me sound like a jerk. I don't care. This is a failure of the American education system in one form or another. This is not rocket science.

Go pick up a novel. Any will do. Then pick up a non-fiction book, a magazine, and any professional comic script you can get your hands on. Copy them, word for word. As you copy them, understand what's going on with each word and grouping of words. Then you may begin to start to understand the simple things.

And I'm serious about going to your teacher. Actually, all of your teachers. They all failed you. Give them all my number.

WTF, the guy asked for help. I asked the same question over a year ago and didn't get this flak. It's like you don't have the patience to help people sometimes, they should know this and that before even asking a question? I just don't understand this.

Kiyoko, Rin
02-12-2015, 04:24 PM
WTF, the guy asked for help. I asked the same question over a year ago and didn't get this flak. It's like you don't have the patience to help people sometimes, they should know this and that before even asking a question? I just don't understand this.

I understand it. The guy asked for help:

- after having several people already comment that (his?) formatting was wrong. Rather than learn from what their critiques were and correcting accordingly, (he) still continues to not format (his) work and then not understand why people are so upset.

- after reading an article TELLING (HIM) HOW TO FORMAT A COMIC SCRIPT the only thing (he) learned was that a page break is needed. Um... If you don't know how to format a comic script, wouldn't you do everything in said article telling you how to format a comic script? The problem isn't to do with knowledge, it's to do with learning.

- after saying (he) didn't know how to search on Google. It was at this point that I suspected the entire thread as being an exercise in click-bait. I just typed "format comic script" into Google, guess what I got?

But, to give at least a modicum of constructive criticism, I'll say this: the "correct" format is whatever gets the information over to the artist so that artwork is created close to what you imagined. If you don't Know how to format for your artist maybe ask the artist how they want the information to be conveyed. Dave McKean prefers to work from a prose short story; Marvel Methoders write from plot points. Schuyler's post tells us how his artist likes (his) format.

Morganza
02-12-2015, 04:32 PM
It appears he got the right help on the first and follow up reply.

Steven Forbes
02-12-2015, 07:42 PM
I understand your reaction, Morganza.

Here's a quote from the interview he did with me. This is how it looks on his site. I didn't do anything at all to the formatting.

Weíve all seen credits in comics, magazines and books that list who edited the work, so we are familiar with editors; but do people realize what the editorís role really is?
The entertainment industry likes to portray editors as high-strung yelling monsters, who tear the hearts out of hopeful young writers every chance they get just to watch another soul shrivel and turn to ash from their glass lined offices amid stacks of papers and ringing telephones.
But how accurate is this and what role does the editor actually play other than as a protagonist in stories?
While it is true that an editors reply or report to a piece of work they are editing may cause a dent in oneís ego, the truth is that a good editor is worth their weight in gold. And thatís not just to use a hackneyed saying itís completely true.

Rather than attempting to describe the editorís role from referenced sources I spoke with editor Steven Forbes who was kind enough to take some time to answer my questions.

That interview can be found here (http://indycomicsspotlight.blogspot.ca/2015/01/behind-heroes-part-2-editor.html).

Let's take a look at what's wrong here.

There are four paragraphs here. Four. Not the two that are shown.

The two paragraphs that are shown have a single space indentation. A single space. Why? I have no earthly idea. The other paragraphs of these four don't have that single indentation, and the first three certainly don't have the single return of carriage to separate them like the fourth has. This absurdity goes on throughout the interview.

Now, those two paragraphs that are indented also have the first letter bolded. Why? Again, I don't know.

And it gets worse as the piece continues. Even the formatting for my own answers is gone. (This was a Q&A done through email.)

Does this look like anything you've ever read, from a formatting standpoint?

Thus, I stand by my words. This is simple, and something that should have been learned way before you graduate high school. By the time you graduate, you've seen enough textbooks, novels, magazines, and newspapers to get something of a clue to understand how a paragraph works. And if you want to be a writer, even coming at it "late", then you should know how a paragraph works.

Again, this is an indictment of the American school system. Someone failed somewhere. Who would you rather be blamed: the teachers, or the student? Or, George W. Bush's "No Child Left Behind" program? (Because, you know, blaming the government is much easier, even if you liked Bush--and I don't.)

Morganza
02-12-2015, 08:04 PM
Yeah, I see now. That rant seemed out of place in context with the thread topic, I don't follow all the situations that happen here very closely.

Has a writer ever used the excuse, "that's my style", when presenting their work? That would be sweet irony.

Steven Forbes
02-12-2015, 08:22 PM
Yeah, I see now. That rant seemed out of place in context with the thread topic, I don't follow all the situations that happen here very closely.

Has a writer ever used the excuse, "that's my style", when presenting their work? That would be sweet irony.

If a writer ever said that to me, that writer would be getting a refund of their fee from me (less any work done), and they could then start looking for another editor to work with.

Schuyler
02-12-2015, 09:46 PM
I said I wasn't going to comment on this thread anymore, but some new information has come to light. Plus, I can't help myself.

I understand why Steven is mad.

I like you johnjohn, otherwise I wouldn't care what happened in this thread. I don't like it when it looks like the internet is teaming up on somebody. So, I hope that's not how you feel right now.

Steven is mad, because it looks like you're lazy. Anyone who graduated from college had to write an essay at some point. So, we know you have written an essay that someone gave a passing grade. In order for that to happen you must have created paragraphs with spaces and indents.

The entertainment industry likes to portray editors as high-strung yelling monsters, who tear the hearts out of hopeful young writers every chance they get just to watch another soul shrivel and turn to ash from their glass lined offices amid stacks of papers and ringing telephones.

This is your classic run-on sentence. If it had some punctuation, it would be some good writing. I can see, just from reading this sentence, that you are a smart and creative guy. The fact that you are writing without punctuation and formatting tells me that you don't care.

Even if you somehow did graduate from college without writing one essay, you had to do some research at some point. That means that it should be easy for you to learn some basic stuff about writing.

Basically, it looks like you want us to do the work for you. We're all here to teach and learn from each other, but c'mon, dude! We have our own learning to do.

-Sky

SamRoads
02-19-2015, 10:06 PM
"What key words should I be adding to formatting so I can narrow down the results to something usefull. "

Useful has one L and this sentence needs a question mark, not a full stop/period.

I wouldn't bother learning comics formatting until you've got spelling and punctuation nailed. You can't possibly be a successful writer until you have those basics under your belt.

johnjohn
02-21-2015, 09:09 AM
Okay this one took a turn from the last time I looked at it.
Now in my defence I will say that it was the article with Steven which drew the issue to my attention and I haven't looked at this since I last responded.

Looks like it's time to go right back to the basics and start over from scratch as it appears that I'm overlooking a lot of basic 101 stuff that is reflecting poorly in the end result which is coming across as lazy or not caring. Some very good information and this is exactly what I have been hoping for so I know where to start looking, it's one thing to have the information but knowing how it applies to you is where it's very important and will yield the best changes.

So I think that it's in my best interests to stop producing work for a while, go right back to the beginning and start over. It's great to produce finished work, but if it's riddled with problems that I'm oblivious to then producing garbage over and over is just a waste of every one's time.

No that's not a 'Oh boo-hoo poor me' statement it's a realistic (IMO) desire to become better at something by being willing to recognize my own short comings and develop properly so I do produce solid work.
I wish I could argue with the criticisms but I know it's right with what's being said, although I will say that there's some growing up to be done in how to say things.