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Mike B
12-16-2014, 01:36 PM
Ok editors and critics. Have fun with my intro.

Rise of The Kingpin Issue 1 (Introduction Only)
Written by Mike Bologna


Character descriptions for Artist:

Jonathan “Jackie” Slade- Adult male. Late 20s/Early 30s. White, athletic and fit. Taller but not towering. Short business style hair, small goatee. When shirtless, muscular but not overly. No “comic book six-pack”, slight definition there but not much.

Grendel– Large hulking man somewhere between very muscular and just big boned. 6’4, 300+ lbs. Black skin, very short hair, thin neatly trimmed beard and diamond earrings. Normally in a modern suit.

Arianne- Red-headed bombshell, 5’10, well proportioned in all aspects.





Page 1

Panel One. Across the entire top 1/3 of the page. Wide shot interior of nice apartment. Large windows in the background give a view of the city. Slade and Grendel are off to a side at a nicely stocked bar. Modern furniture throughout. Music playing.

Desc: The City. 1:24a.m.
Slade’s Apartment

SFX: Lyrics from a speaker, unobtrusive to the rest of the panel: “No you can’t take it. No you can’t take that away from me.” Try to visualize that it’s heavy music with emphasis.

Panel Two. Close up of Slade and Grendel at the bar in main room of the apartment. Slade holding a glass with scotch on the rocks.

SFX: Musical notes coming from off panel.

Desc (near Slade): Jonathan Slade
Underboss of the Rose Crime Syndicate

Desc (near Grendel): Grendel
Slade’s right hand

Grendel:
“You sure ‘bout this one?”

Slade:
“She cost me a lot of trouble with her tricks and lies. I’m very sure.”

Grendel:
“Ya know Christian already doesn’t like you- he’ll kill you for this.”


Panel Three. More squared up shot of Slade, closed door seen in the background with a faint light around the edges. Grendel barely visible on the side if at all.

SFX: Musical notes coming from off panel, more defined this time compared to last panel.

Slade:
“I’m the best fighter in the city and he knows it. That French bastard would never risk attacking me. The embarrassment to his little gang would crush his business."

Grendel:
“Hah! I could still whoop your ass Slade, don’t forget about that. Seriously, there’s nothing says he can’t just have someone shoot you in the head with a rifle from across the street.

Panel Four. Identical to Panel Three besides the door in the background open and Arianne’s silhouette coming through.

Slade:
“Rose would need to authorize that, and she loves the shit out of me. Now let’s do this.”

Page 2

Panel One. Arianne, smiling, joins Grendel and Slade by the bar. Slade is extending a glass of wine towards her.

SFX: Lyrics from a speaker, unobtrusive to the rest of the panel: “…serve. You’re going to get what you deserve.”

Slade:
“Some night so far eh?”

Arianne:
“So far? You mean there’s more?”

Slade:
“Hey I told you we’d have a good time.”

Panel Two. Centered more on Arianne.

Arianne:
“Honestly I haven’t had this much fun in a long time.
Thank you.
I do need to get up early and plan for the party though. Can you call a driver to meet me out front?”

Panel Three. Slade and Arianne.

SFX: Musical notes coming from off panel.

Slade:
“After this last drink of course.”

Panel Four. Close up of Arianne’s face as she sips the glass, “sexy eyes” looking at Slade.

Arianne:
“Sure, after this drink.”

Panel Five. Slade knocking back his drink.

Panel Six. Slade putting the empty glass down on the bar.

Slade:
“Actually you know, I was just about to ask Grendel here to go ahead and go home for the evening.”

Page 3

Panel One. Group. Arianne smug looking, Slade laughing some.

Arianne:
“Oh really? I thought he lived here with you.”

Slade:
“Really cute Arianne. Yes, the big guy has his own place.”

Panel Two. Slade a step closer to Arianne.

Slade:
“You should hang out for a bit. We could have some real fun.”

Panel Three. Grendel walking out.

Grendel:
“See you two tomorrow.”

Slade:
“Later buddy.”

Panel Four. Slade and Arianne, her looking to where Grendel walked out.

Arianne:
“You know who my boyfriend is…
you really want to go there Mr. Slade?”

Slade:
“I’ve wanted to go there since the first time I saw you.”

Arianne:
“But--”

Slade:
“I’m not worried about Christian, let’s not even talk about him. The last thing I am is scared of that idiot.”



Panel Five. Slade moving to behind Arianne, hands on her shoulders.

Arianne:
“Then you’re a fool. Everyone is scared of him.”

Slade:
“Not everyone. Not me.”

Arianne:
“Why not? What makes you so special?”

Slade:
“He may have big muscles, but you know as well as I do there’s nothing upstairs. It’s all about making the right plans. Now shut up and enjoy this massage."

Page 4

Panel One, Panel Two, Panel Three. Across the top of the page, panels should be obvious that Slade and Arianne are having sex- but don’t show anything 18+. Maybe a silhouette of her on him, a panel of her hand gripping the pillow or his bare back, things like that.

Narr: His plan was never necessarily to seduce her; that was just an added bonus.

Panel Four. Slade sitting up on the end of the bed, shirtless, some sweat. Arianne relaxed in the bed.

Slade:
“I’m gonna get another drink, want anything?”

Arianne:
“Mmmm. How about some water and then round two?”

Slade:
“Weren’t you in a rush to get some sleep before the party?”

Arianne:
“That’s how it is? You going to make me beg?”

Narr: More than that, it was a welcomed bonus. He enjoyed manipulating her and the little game he played with people’s lives.

Panel Five. View from other side of the bedroom door as Slade walks through it, the bed and Arianne in the background.

Slade:
“Begging might be nice, heh.
I’ll be right back.”

Narr: To him, she was simply a quest. An achievement. An obstacle in his never-ending attempt to win “The Game”.

Panel Six. Arianne stretching on the bed.

Panel Seven. Light from the open door now spreads over the bed, with a long shadow across Arianne’s body.

Arianne:
“Well that was quick, you are anxious huh?”



Page 5

Panel One. Closer shot of Arianne’s head. A massive open palm (Grendel’s) forcefully slamming down on her face, covering her mouth and nose.

Narr: The game was a deadly one.

Panel Two. View from the headboard of the bed looking up and out on the scene. Grendel leaning heavy on both arms as they press down strong. One of Arianne’s hands grasping his arm, the other reaching up and out for anything it can grab.

Narr: It has been going on for millennia.
Anytime a group of two-bit thieves would meet up…

Panel Three. Grendel visibly relieved as he relaxes his muscles, standing up straight.

Narr: or a small street gang would cross paths with professional assassins

or a multi-national syndicate would host the local talent

Panel Four. Balcony of the apartment, Slade is leaning on the rail with a drink in hand. He’s already dressed again in the same clothes he was wearing Page 1. Don’t show too much of the city, save that for the next page.

Narr: Anytime the criminal underworld had dealings with itself; that was when the game was played.

Panel Five. Close up of Slade’s upper body as the drink is near his lips, his head angled towards the entry to the balcony (which leads back to the apartment) where Grendel has appeared.

Panel Six. A sly smile on Slade’s face as Grendel turned and is walking away.

Narr: And after only a few years in,



Page 6 and 7

Panel One. Full landscape 2 page spread. Slade standing straight on the balcony proud, one hand on the railing the other holding the empty glass down by his side. Wind blowing parts of his clothes, we see he is high up in the high-rise. The view shows a modern cityscape that Slade is in the heart of. Lights all around, some jumbo TVs and neon signs far below. Really trying to emphasize that this is a major metropolitan area and he is right in the middle, not on the outskirts.

Narr: Jonathan Slade was one of the best to ever play this game.

Title (Huge letters): Rise of the Kingpin
Title (sub): Part One
Written by Mike Bologna
Illustrated by ---- ------
(Other Production Info as needed)

Steven Forbes
12-16-2014, 09:48 PM
Okay, folks. This one is ripe.

Schuyler: Dialogue

Rin: Panel Descriptions

I don't care who tackles pacing.

After that, we can start to break down other parts. But these are the obvious things.

Mike B
12-16-2014, 10:13 PM
"RIPE", he says! Haha.

I'll get my notebook...

gmartyt
12-17-2014, 02:24 AM
I guess I'll give it a shot.

The pacing is slow. Part of this is due to how much dialogue there is, but part of it is how little changes from panel to panel. For example, on page 3 it takes Slade five panels to get behind Arianne from wherever he was standing. In other words, nothing really happens. Honestly, you could probably start at the sex scene on page four and still cover everything you need to.

Hope this helps.

LukePierce
12-17-2014, 05:27 AM
Character Desciptions:

Could be far too open for an artist to interpret and what one artist produces will be very different to what someone else might do. What the police use to describe suspects is actually really useful for comics as well. Namely:

Name:
Age:
Gender:
Race:

Height:
Weight:
Build:
Hair:
Eyes:

Scars/Marks/Tattoos:

Personality:

Mike B
12-17-2014, 08:42 AM
I guess I'll give it a shot.

The pacing is slow. Part of this is due to how much dialogue there is, but part of it is how little changes from panel to panel. For example, on page 3 it takes Slade five panels to get behind Arianne from wherever he was standing. In other words, nothing really happens. Honestly, you could probably start at the sex scene on page four and still cover everything you need to.

Hope this helps.

Great point. Thank you for your feedback.

Kiyoko, Rin
12-17-2014, 08:57 AM
Page 1

Panel One. Across the entire top 1/3 of the page. Wide shot interior (Good, you’ve specified the framing, but where’s the camera, and how far away are we focus-wise from the characters – close up / long shot / mid shot?) of nice (what does nice mean in this context? Pleasant? Homely? Opulent?) apartment. Large (how large? Full length? I ask because it becomes important later) windows in the background give a view of the city (which city? This story’s called “Rise of the Kingpin,” so I’ll ASSUME you’re talking about New York – more on this later - and I’d GUESS you’d be basing this in the borough of Manhattan… but I shouldn’t have to assume and I shouldn’t have to guess. And I DEFINITELY shouldn’t have to go to pages 6 and 7 for a description of what can be seen on page 1. PS: note the lower case “c” you used here for the word “city”). Slade and Grendel are off to a side (which? Your artist needs to know) at a nicely (that word again) stocked bar (what are they doing?) Modern furniture throughout. Music playing.

Desc (known in the business as a “Caption”): The City (City with a capital C? City as a proper noun rather than just a plain old noun; it’s actually called “The City?” So… we’re not in New York, you’ve gone down the DC route of making up an American city? If so, your artist needs visual references and details of what The City looks like. And while I’m on the subject: you have a Marvel copyrighted named character who isn’t Wilson Fisk, mixing with a Dark Horse copyrighted character who probably isn’t Hunter Rose. What’s going on?!) 1:24a.m. (Which is night time, so you need to specify the lighting, both in the apartment and outside it.)
Slade’s Apartment (Apartment with a capital A? Really?)

SFX: Lyrics from a speaker, unobtrusive to the rest of the panel: “No you can’t take it. No you can’t take that away from me.” Try to visualize that it’s heavy music with emphasis. (The way you’ve formatted it, how surprised would you be if your letterer wrote everything from “Lyrics” to “emphasis” in the panel? Most comic format-guides recommend putting the actual copy on a separate line from the tag and explanatory notes for this very reason.)

Panel Two. Close up of Slade and Grendel at the bar in main room of the apartment (So, the bar was in the main room of the apartment? I thought it was off to a side. Are there two bars that they’re doing a pub crawl around, or should the bar’s placement as being in the main room have been mentioned in your establishing shot?) Slade holding a glass with scotch on the rocks. (If he’s holding a drink in this panel, he should have, pacing-wise, been pouring it in the last.)

SFX: Musical notes coming from off panel. (From which direction? You never placed your speaker, you only said it was unobtrusive. Are you aware you have almost zero spatial relationships in your panel descriptions? Where are things in relationship to each other? Where’s your camera placed in relation to your characters? How far are the characters from the reader?)

Desc (near Slade): Jonathan Slade
Underboss of the Rose Crime Syndicate

Desc (near Grendel): Grendel
Slade’s right hand (You had both characters in panel 1’s establishing shot, but you’re introducing them now, in panel two?)
Grendel:
“You sure ‘bout this one?”

Slade:
“She cost me a lot of trouble with her tricks and lies. I’m very sure.”

Grendel:
“Ya know Christian already doesn’t like you- he’ll kill you for this.”


Panel Three. More squared up shot (you never gave ANY camera placement for Slade in the last panel, you just wrote “close up.” If you want a more “squared up” shot in panel three, in panel two specify the camera orientation as being off square) of Slade, closed door (where’d this door come from? You’ve never mentioned other rooms. Where are we?) seen in the background with a faint light around the edges. Grendel barely visible on the side if at all (make a decision, as it affects whether Grenel’s speech is off panel or not).

SFX: Musical notes coming from off panel (which direction?), more defined this time compared to last panel. (No, no, no, no. In panel 1 you went out of your way to ask for emphasis to be placed on how heavy the music was. You never asked for the SFX to be softened in the next panel so your letterer will ASSUME more of the same, and now you want it even MORE defined? How? Embossed? A pop-up sound effect?!)
Slade:
“I’m the best fighter in the city and he knows it. That French bastard would never risk attacking me. The embarrassment to his little gang would crush his business."

Grendel:
“Hah! I could still whoop your ass Slade, don’t forget about that. Seriously, there’s nothing says he can’t just have someone shoot you in the head with a rifle from across the street.

Panel Four. Identical to Panel Three (how hard is it on word-processing software to copy and paste? Is it drastically longer than typing, “Identical to Panel Three?” Imagine that your artist likes to cross off panels after {s}he’s drawn them; now think where {s}he’d be now on panel 4 with panel 3 all crossed out. An artist shouldn’t have to keep going back to earlier panels to draw the next ones and vice versa.) besides the door in the background open and Arianne’s silhouette coming through.
Slade:
“Rose would need to authorize that, and she loves the shit out of me. Now let’s do this.”

Page 2

Panel One. Arianne, smiling, joins Grendel and Slade by the bar. (Panel descriptions usually describe – manga aside – from left to right, or near to far, or far to near. Last panel, Slade was on one side of the panel, the door on the other. Here, you’ve reversed it; you’ve spun the camera 180 degrees, which means there’s a background behind Grendel and Slade we haven’t seen before. What is it?) Slade is extending a glass of wine towards her.

SFX: Lyrics from a speaker (where’s this speaker?), unobtrusive to the rest of the panel: “…serve. You’re going to get what you deserve.”
Slade:
“Some night so far eh?”

Arianne:
“So far? You mean there’s more?”

Slade:
“Hey I told you we’d have a good time.”

Panel Two. Centered more on Arianne (what’s she doing? What’s her expression? How much of her do we see? Where’s the camera? What angle / distance is it at? What’s she wearing? – All we know about her is her height, hair colour and her proportions).
Arianne:
“Honestly I haven’t had this much fun in a long time.
Thank you.
I do need to get up early and plan for the party though. Can you call a driver to meet me out front?”

Panel Three. Slade and Arianne. (The last panel was sparse, this panel feels like you’ve given up. If your artist put as much effort into their drawing as you have in your description then you’ll have a couple of stick figures in the panel. What are your characters doing / where’s the camera / how far apart are they from each other / where are they looking…?)

SFX: Musical notes coming from off panel (which direction?).
Slade:
“After this last drink of course.”

Panel Four. Close up of Arianne’s face as she sips the glass, “sexy eyes” looking at Slade. (The good news: you’ve finally given your character an expression, though the best way to see “sexy eyes,” imo, is if we’re looking right at them, not if they’re looking to the side. If Slade’s face is also in frame, how can we be looking at her eyes and still be seeing her sip her drink? His head would be in the way, and he’s taller than her. If you’d placed your camera you could have resolved this.)
Arianne:
“Sure, after this drink.”

Panel Five. Slade knocking back his drink.

Panel Six. Slade putting the empty glass down on the bar. (These 2 panels are fine, but I’d still like you to place the camera in each panel as an exercise in good discipline.)
Slade:
“Actually you know, I was just about to ask Grendel here to go ahead and go home for the evening.”

Page 3

Panel One. Group (Huh?). Arianne smug looking, Slade laughing some.
Arianne:
“Oh really? I thought he lived here with you.”

Slade:
“Really cute (comma) Arianne. Yes, the big guy has his own place.”

Panel Two. Slade a step closer to Arianne. (He’s starting to put the moves on her so you should clarify their expressions. How does she respond to his seduction? What camera angle / distance and placement would best fit the mood you want? – Don’t leave it all up to the artist.)
Slade:
“You should hang out for a bit. We could have some real fun.”

Panel Three. Grendel walking out. (As we haven’t seen the front door yet, you should clarify what it looks like / where it is, and from what angle we’re seeing it. Is Grendel’s back to us, is he walking through it, has he passed through it? Bearing in mind what Grendel – who’s been absent for quite a few panels, btw - will do later on, what is his expression? Murderous relish? Grim practicality? A mention of the lighting and darkness here could really set the tone for what’s to come. In other words: we need more details!)
Grendel:
“See you two tomorrow.”

Slade:
“Later (comma) buddy.”

Panel Four. Slade and Arianne, her looking to where Grendel walked out. (You’re backsliding. There’s not enough details here.)
Arianne:
“You know who my boyfriend is…
you really want to go there (comma) Mr. Slade?”

Slade:
“I’ve wanted to go there since the first time I saw you.”

Arianne:
“But--”

Slade:
“I’m not worried about Christian, let’s not even talk about him. The last thing I am is scared of that idiot.”


Panel Five. Slade moving to behind Arianne, hands on her shoulders. (Expressions? Camera placement? How much of each of them do we see?)
Arianne:
“Then you’re a fool. Everyone is scared of him.”

Slade:
“Not everyone. Not me.”

Arianne:
“Why not? What makes you so special?”

Slade:
“He may have big muscles, but you know as well as I do there’s nothing upstairs. It’s all about making the right plans. Now shut up and enjoy this massage."

Page 4

Panel One, Panel Two, Panel Three. Across the top of the page, panels should be obvious that Slade and Arianne are having sex- but don’t show anything 18+. Maybe a silhouette of her on him, a panel of her hand gripping the pillow or his bare back, things like that.

Narr: His plan was never necessarily to seduce her; that was just an added bonus.

Panel Four. Slade sitting up on the end (“end” or “edge”? What’s his expression?) of the bed, shirtless (by specifying “shirtless,” I’m going to ASSUME the rest of him’s fully clothed, and that he just had sex with his shoes and socks and trousers and pants on) some sweat. Arianne relaxed in the bed. (What type of bed? Four poster? Divan? Bunk bed?! Where’s the lighting coming from?)
Slade:
“I’m gonna get another drink, want anything?”

Arianne:
“Mmmm. How about some water and then round two?”

Slade:
“Weren’t you in a rush to get some sleep before the party?”

Arianne:
“That’s how it is? You going to make me beg?”

Narr: More than that, it was a welcomed bonus. He enjoyed manipulating her and the little game he played with people’s lives.

Panel Five. View from other side of the bedroom door as Slade walks through it, (as we’re looking into the bedroom we need a description of what it looks like) the bed and Arianne (her expression?) in the background.
Slade:
“Begging might be nice, heh.
I’ll be right back.”

Narr: To him, she was simply a quest. An achievement. An obstacle in his never-ending attempt to win “The Game”.

Panel Six. Arianne stretching on the bed.

Panel Seven. Light from the open door now spreads over the bed, with a long shadow across Arianne’s body. (When we first saw Arianne, what door was she stepping through? The front door? If so, then it means the outside of the apartment’s well lit but the inside isn’t – she was in silhouette walking into the apartment, remember. In this case, you should bear the lighting in mind when Grendel’s exiting on page 3 panel 3. If Arianne was stepping through THE BEDROOM DOOR when we first saw her then it means the INSIDE of the bedroom’s well lit, the outside ISN’T, so why is Grendel’s shadow now being projected INTO the room? Assassin’s don’t tend to announce themselves by altering the lighting to make sure they have dramatic entrances.)

Arianne:
“Well that was quick, you are anxious (comma) huh?”



Page 5

Panel One. Closer shot of Arianne’s head. (Where’s the camera?) A massive open palm (Grendel’s) forcefully slamming down on her face, covering her mouth and nose. (What’s the expression in her eyes?)

Narr: The game was a deadly one.

Panel Two. View from the headboard (if the bed has a headboard, you should have told us earlier) of the bed looking up and out (out?) on the scene. Grendel leaning heavy on both arms as they press down strong. (Do we see his face or just the crown of his hair? Do I need to prompt you for an expression?) One of Arianne’s hands grasping his arm, the other reaching up and out for anything it can grab.

Narr: It has been going on for millennia.
Anytime a group of two-bit thieves would meet up…

Panel Three. Grendel visibly relieved as he relaxes his muscles, standing up straight.

Narr: or a small street gang would cross paths with professional assassins

or a multi-national syndicate would host the local talent

Panel Four. Balcony (in my ignorance of US apartments, I never pictured a balcony. There’s quite a good chance your artist won’t be American, or, if American, may hail from a house / trailer / cabin / farm and they may not have pictured it either. Partly due to ignorance, but mainly because: you never specified there was a balcony) of the apartment, Slade is leaning on the rail with a drink (another scotch?) in hand. He’s already dressed again in the same clothes he was wearing Page 1. Don’t show too much of the city, save that for the next page. (What time of day / what’s the lighting?)

Narr: Anytime the criminal underworld had dealings with itself; that was when the game was played.

Panel Five. Close up of Slade’s upper body as the drink is near his lips, his head angled towards the entry to the balcony (which leads back to the apartment) where Grendel has appeared.

Panel Six. A sly smile on Slade’s face as Grendel turned and is walking away.

Narr: And after only a few years in,



Page 6 and 7

Panel One. Full landscape 2 page spread. Slade standing straight on the balcony proud, one hand on the railing the other holding the empty glass down by his side. Wind blowing parts of his clothes, we see he is high up in the high-rise. The view shows a modern cityscape that Slade is in the heart of. Lights all around, some jumbo TVs and neon signs far below. Really trying to emphasize that this is a major metropolitan area and he is right in the middle, not on the outskirts. (The two biggest things ruining this shot for you? You haven’t placed your camera, and you haven’t placed “The City” in space (or time). Lots of countries have high rise skyscrapers, and since you haven’t placed us in the USA, an artist could draw a pseudo Dubai or Tokyo. Try and provide a visual reference, or at the very least, give your artist an analogue from which to work.)

Schuyler
12-17-2014, 12:02 PM
I do not have a lot of time, as I am already late for work.

There are some commas missing in the dialogue. I am really bad about commas so I should not be the one saying this. When you address someone in a sentence, you have to put a comma before their name, or sometimes after their name. Please, put the commas in, Mike. Mike, will you please put some commas in?

Is Arianne attracted to Slade? Her dialogue is confusing me. She seems to not care about her boyfriend, but not really interested in Slade. It's like she is a doll that is owned by one or the other with no vested interest either way. Some women are like that I guess...

"The last thing I am is scared of that idiot." Slade says that... This could also be fixed with a comma. After am and before is. Or, you could move the word is.

On page four a caption appears. That's like the opposite of dropsies. A narration that appears from nowhere. Steven, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you got to start narrating at the beginning if you want to use a narration.

I am sure I missed something that Steven wanted me to say, but I have to go.

Good luck

Schuyler
12-17-2014, 05:33 PM
Okay, I am back.

Page 1

Panel One. Across the entire top 1/3 of the page. Wide shot interior of nice apartment. Large windows in the background give a view of the city. Slade and Grendel are off to a side at a nicely stocked bar. Modern furniture throughout. Music playing.

Desc: The City. 1:24a.m.
Slade’s Apartment

SFX: Lyrics from a speaker, unobtrusive to the rest of the panel: “No you can’t take it. No you can’t take that away from me.” Try to visualize that it’s heavy music with emphasis.

Do you really want people to think about NIN while reading your gangster comic?

I understand that the lyrics have meaning in the context of this story, however, I think Frank Sinatra suits your character better. I might be wrong.

Desc (near Slade): Jonathan Slade
Underboss of the Rose Crime Syndicate

Desc (near Grendel): Grendel
Slade’s right hand

I would take these out. I would say it is not a good way to introduce your characters. We know that Rose is a boss, because it is stated in dialogue later. We know Grendel is underneath Slade, because of the way Slade treats him. All we need now are some organic name drops.

Slade:
“She cost me a lot of trouble with her tricks and lies. I’m very sure.”

In my opinion, Arianne shows a lack of cunning.

Grendel:
“Ya know Christian already doesn’t like you- he’ll kill you for this.”

Why is there a dash? It should be a comma or a period.

Slade:
“I’m the best fighter in the city and he knows it. That French bastard would never risk attacking me. The embarrassment to his little gang would crush his business."

I am confused about what kind of Gangsters these are. Are they James Dean Gangsters or Joe Pesci gangsters? Do they fight each other with whips and baseball bats or with pistols? Grendel said "He'll kill you...". Does Christian get mad at people and then beat them to death? If I was a gangster and I wanted to kill a guy, a fist fight would never cross my mind.

Grendel:
“Hah! I could still whoop your ass (insert comma) Slade, don’t forget about that. Seriously, there’s nothing says he can’t just have someone shoot you in the head with a rifle from across the street.


Slade:
“Some night so far (insert comma) eh?”

Slade:
“Hey (insert comma) I told you we’d have a good time.”

Arianne:
“Honestly (insert comma) I haven’t had this much fun in a long time.
Thank you.
I do need to get up early and plan for the party though. Can you call a driver to meet me out front?”

Arianne:
“Oh (insert comma) really? I thought he lived here with you.”

Slade:
“Really cute (insert comma) Arianne. Yes, the big guy has his own place.”

I wish Arianne acted more like this. She is mostly submissive.

Arianne:
“You know who my boyfriend is…
you really want to go there Mr. Slade?”

I get the feeling that she is over at his house because she is interested in him. He wants her to think he is interested... Why does she call him Mr. Slade? He should be Jackie or John to her.

I will have to finish up later. I hope this is helping.

Schuyler
12-17-2014, 06:38 PM
All the dialogue has quotations. That is incorrect formatting for a comic book script. You only put quotes around captions when someone off panel, or in another location, is talking to someone else. Quotations are never used in a straight back and forth dialogue.

SamRoads
12-17-2014, 08:58 PM
* Using a specific musical quote is asking for pain. It's tricky to get exactly the rights you want. Is it *vital* to this story that that song is Head Like A Hole? Will it kill your story if it's not? Are you borrowing kudos from NIN? Do you want people who don't like NIN to also dislike your story?

* A lot of this story involves people sitting talking to each other. Why not have them doing something. Anything. Movement is always more interesting. What if they start at the bar, move through into an armoury, checking out some guns, then end up in a luxurious chill out room. Gives us readers more to look at than just the same room endlessly.

* I really dislike the narrator appearing halfway through. If you're going to have an omniscient narrator (as opposed to a character, speaking in character), it makes much more sense for them to open the story.

Mike B
12-17-2014, 10:45 PM
Thanks Sam! Great ideas and notes.

Rin,

I am simply asking because I don't know. I'm not challenging at all here, just trying to learn.
You mention a few times about my lack of detail in certain panels. I had thought this was ok when you have no real need for a certain angle or camera placement.
For instance, I have looked over dozens of professional scripts and many times it's just;
------------
Panel 4

Wolverine: Hey there Bub.

Cyclops: I hate you.

Panel 5

Wolverine: Oh yea?

Cyclops: Yea!

Panel 6
Wolverine punches Cyclops.

Wolverine: Oh yea!?

Panel 7
Cyclops optic blasts Wolverine's face off.

Cyclops: YEA!
----------------------

So the writer at times is allowing the artist to choose how they want the panel, if it's an overhead shot, if it's from someone's shoulder, if it's from outside the building looking in through the window.

So I took the same approach where, there were certainly shots that I had a clear view of how I wanted it to look on the page, but there were others where I just knew how the story had to play out, so felt the artist could set up the panel how they chose.

Again, this may well be my ignorance on things and I was just going off of a set of scripts I saw. Possibly it's different when it's an independent like myself working with an artist I don't know so well, as opposed to a team who have done many books together?

My other question is on the names. The word Kingpin isn't copyrighted it's the character name. As the story progresses, Slade moves into a position of a Kingpin, meaning the head honcho. I didn't have any plans for him to use the name/title as in "I am the Kingpin!", it was just to establish that the story is about his, well, rise to be the big shot.
Also, for Grendel, I was going off of the classic Beowulf. The character has acquired the nickname of Grendel due to his size and demeanor.
If there is consensus that this seems to be stepping on the toes of Matt Wagner and his character, then I guess I'd have to change it.
That was my main question about your write-up. The rest was gold and points out a number of areas I need to work on. Thank you.

Schuyler,

Also some GREAT points.
For instance, while I know exactly what type of gangsters they are, that means squat to anyone else because they don't know them or the history of this city's criminal underground which is quite unique from a normal one.

I've seen a lot of feedback that Arianne is too submissive or bland and that's something I need to address. I think I was so focused on making Slade seem like a stereotypical chauvinist d-bag, to set up his fall and then rise with a totally different personality, that I neglected to form Arianne as much as I should have.
I made that decision initially because she only appears for a few pages and I did not want to give her a personality. I wanted her to just be a body that Slade plays with, almost as if that's how he sees her too.
Later on he meets women who challenge him mentally and emotionally, something he's never encountered before so I was trying to have the reader experience some of that too.
BUT, I see now that especially because it's the intro to the story, a reader could well get turned off by seeing something so bland.

gmartyt
12-18-2014, 02:13 AM
You're probably going to care more about camera angle and placement than you think. Putting it in now will save your artist the stress of guessing at what you want. If you really have no idea what a panel should look like, odds are that panel isn't necessary.

As a general rule, I try to limit my dialogue to 25 words per panel. You might be able to get away with a little more than that, but some of your word balloons have that much by themselves. Remember, all of your dialogue is going to be covering your art. Having 50 or 60 words in a panel is going to cover a lot of real estate.

The dialogue sounds unnatural. The characters sound more like they're explaining what the story is rather than having an actual conversation. This might just be me, though.

SamRoads
12-18-2014, 07:54 AM
Absolutely don't copy the scripts of the big writers. They're permitted to do their own thing because they're ridiculously good and have made it. Also, you could go mad trying to square the writing of John Wagner with the writing of Alan Moore.

Also, they are writing for the best artists in the known universe. Your artist may be slightly less experienced and will want all the help you can offer.

Give camera angles. Give expressions. Describe what needs describing in simple, clean sentences.

Visit www.comixtribe.com and read all 100 Bolts and Nuts. Drink more water.

Mike B
12-18-2014, 10:21 AM
Absolutely don't copy the scripts of the big writers. They're permitted to do their own thing because they're ridiculously good and have made it. Also, you could go mad trying to square the writing of John Wagner with the writing of Alan Moore.

Also, they are writing for the best artists in the known universe. Your artist may be slightly less experienced and will want all the help you can offer.

Give camera angles. Give expressions. Describe what needs describing in simple, clean sentences.

Visit www.comixtribe.com and read all 100 Bolts and Nuts. Drink more water.

:thumbs:

Thank you. That's pretty much what I gathered after reading the initial feedback.

Water is a good suggestion as well!

Kiyoko, Rin
12-19-2014, 02:11 AM
Rin,

I am simply asking because I don't know. I'm not challenging at all here, just trying to learn.
You mention a few times about my lack of detail in certain panels. I had thought this was ok when you have no real need for a certain angle or camera placement.
For instance, I have looked over dozens of professional scripts and many times it's just;
------------
Panel 4

Wolverine: Hey there Bub.

Cyclops: I hate you.

Panel 5

Wolverine: Oh yea?

Cyclops: Yea!

Panel 6
Wolverine punches Cyclops.

Wolverine: Oh yea!?

Panel 7
Cyclops optic blasts Wolverine's face off.

Cyclops: YEA!
----------------------

So the writer at times is allowing the artist to choose how they want the panel


Oops, I never even considered that you were writing in the Marvel Method, I was judging you against the "full script" method, so I apologise for my comment about stick figures as it probably crossed the line.

Based on this one script, I don't think the Marvel Method suits your particular style. You seem to like a lot of dialogue to tell your story and from what (little) I know of the Marvel Method, the plot's given to the artist, the artist decides on the panel layout and pacing, then - when the artwork's finished - dialogue is added based on how it fits around and complements the art. If you already have a strong sense of what your characters will say, and how you want the dialogue to flow, then you should probably lead with that - base the art around the dialogue, not vice versa.

Kiyoko, Rin
12-19-2014, 02:30 AM
As a general rule, I try to limit my dialogue to 25 words per panel. You might be able to get away with a little more than that, but some of your word balloons have that much by themselves. Remember, all of your dialogue is going to be covering your art. Having 50 or 60 words in a panel is going to cover a lot of real estate.

But, in MikeB's defence, he didn't have many panels to go with all that dialogue, and fewer panels = larger art and more space. The Dark Horse format guide that I use (but don't always follow, as you'll see from my script's drubbing on TPG later today) recommends a maximum of 25 words per balloon and a maximum of three balloons per panel (speech / reply / follow up to the reply). The one page I felt like commenting that there was too much copy in the panels was the sex scene page, where you had 4-part dialogue, captions AND a cramping seven panels. But as the first three panels were in their own tier and were silent, and the actual dialogue itself was relatively short, I felt it could be managed.

gmartyt
12-19-2014, 05:06 AM
I've been using the Dark Horse format as well, I just misread the word count and thought it was referring to the amount per panel rather than per balloon. I guess I've been really limiting myself.

LukePierce
12-19-2014, 05:50 AM
Rise of the King might be a better alternative title. Still get the meaning across and as King can mean anything, it's harder to say that it was influenced by x character.

KenG
12-19-2014, 08:39 AM
Hey MikeB,

As far as names, titles and the like are concerned, they CAN NOT alone be copyrighted. The term "Kingpin" is often used to describe the head of any (usually criminal) organization, although I can see why comic book fans would associate it with Wilson Fisk.

This brings me to my next point, the name "Wilson Fisk," as a Marvel character named "Kingpin" and his current likeness CAN be trademarked. It likely is in fact. As your "kingpin" character does not have this name nor, (hopefully) his likeness you are fine.

The same goes for the name Grendel. Aside from us comic fans, most people would likely associate that name with the monster in Beowulf. Though I think it might actually even mean bone grinder or something like that.

Trademarks expire and can only be renewed a limited number of times without changing something, which is (possibly) another reason why character looks, gender, race, and costumes change sometimes. Again, possibly, so the bigger companies can renew them indefinitely.

Sorry to ramble. ;) My point is that as far as the names, and title go, you should be fine.

A quick edit to say that , though the names are fine, you should consider your audience as well. Obviously comic fans may make the associations, based on the names, to the characters owned by other companies initially. When they find out they aren't stories about those characters, they may put the story down. Just a thought.