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View Full Version : Why is the new 52 sucessful?


Toro
09-03-2014, 04:24 PM
Remember the whole Crisis of Infiantite Earth was suspose to get rid of DC's alterante universes becuase readers were sick of them? That's one the reasons why people think that Marvel's New Universe line wasn't well received.
Twenty years later DC not only returns to this they the premise of their whole line and people are loving it. Why do you think this?

omega sentry
09-03-2014, 07:14 PM
New market....a lot of shuck value stuff....it's a fresh start and some of people's favorite writers are writing them.

The writing started strong....the whole way they handled it was pretty believable and it's not a mess. Everything seems to fallow a path and over all story but also have individuality with in their individual stories. Something that was beloved by fans in the crossgen universe.

To bad their movies aren't doing so well.

Newt
09-03-2014, 07:58 PM
Readers want good stories. They don't care about the big picture stuff unless it gets in the way. By most accounts, DC delivered good stories with New 52. So, readers liked 'em. Simple!

Buckyrig
09-04-2014, 11:56 AM
Remember the whole Crisis of Infiantite Earth was suspose to get rid of DC's alterante universes becuase readers were sick of them?

It wasn't that readers were sick of the multiverse, it was that it had tied itself up into a Gordian Knot. The DCU's history was an undecipherable mess.

Readers want good stories. They don't care about the big picture stuff unless it gets in the way. By most accounts, DC delivered good stories with New 52. So, readers liked 'em. Simple!

Uh...continuity is nerd porn.

QAN
09-04-2014, 01:26 PM
The DCU's history was an undecipherable mess.

It still is.

Newt
09-04-2014, 01:28 PM
Yes, but...while those kinds of nerds are probably a higher proportion of the audience for comics than for most other media, I don't believe they are the biggest part of the audience (just the most vocal).

Most readers (I suspect) just want a story that is satisfying and makes sense, not something that requires arcane knowledge of continuity in order to understand. Who cares if something Superman said in Justice League is contradicted by something he said 10 issues ago in some other title? Well, obviously some people do, but I think they're the minority.

Just like the great majority of people who watched the Lord of the Rings movies didn't give a flying fellbeast that Beregond and Glorfindel were dropped and the elves shouldn't have been at Helm's Deep. Nerds whined, but they watched anyway- because the movies were good, whether they violated canon or not.

Buckyrig
09-04-2014, 01:39 PM
It still is.

Well, honestly I think the problem is that a multiverse was a good way to take care of things, but that it was used for all kinds of flights of fancy rather than just being a way to reboot every once in a while.

If you leave the continuity behind every 20 or 30 years and start fresh, call it a new alternate earth...you keep things from tangling up as much as they do.

It's stuff like trying to keep characters tied to WWII, while having them be around in the present with all the tap dancing that involves that causes problems.

It would also allow the completion of character arcs, rather than keeping them in a status quo holding pattern.

I mean, I don't know if any of that would work from a business sense, but as a reader that would be ideal.

Newt
09-04-2014, 01:49 PM
I think they should reset to each character's original timeline and allow characters to age in real time. The golden age characters would all now be 100-ish. Stories about Bruce Wayne fighting crime as Batman would have to be set in the past.

Has it ever been established whether Superman ages like a human, or will he remain in his prime indefinitely?

Buckyrig
09-04-2014, 01:59 PM
I like that too.

But it doesn't preclude the reboots.

Look at it from the viewpoint of the original Earth-1/Earth-2 split.

You have young Batman running around in the late 50s, but you can also still tell new stories about batman in the 40s in the Earth-2 universe. (I mean, they didn't do that, but there you go.)

As much as the first Captain America movie was only ok...I liked that it took place almost entirely in the 40s.

But I don't really know that these characters (well, some do) belong stuck in a particular time period. But they do need to be reinvented or re-imagined for changing times. A lot of Silver Age characters have their origins at least partly rooted in the Cold War for example. That doesn't work now.

Newt
09-04-2014, 02:46 PM
Then they should be let go. Allowed to retire. It isn't necessary for every character to drag on forever and ever.

I realize this is a pipe dream, and characters stick around so long as they're popular, I'm just stating what I'd like to see. I think a DC Universe in which Bruce Wayne lived out his life and died, Dick Grayson and Barbara Gordon are elderly, and some new iteration of the Batman lineage is now active would be more interesting than the current state of affairs with its chronologically static characters and periodic reboots.

QAN
09-05-2014, 08:22 AM
I mean, I don't know if any of that would work from a business sense, but as a reader that would be ideal.

I've never understood this thinking. There are many ways to relay a character without sacrificing their dated history. It does't have to be a headache-inducing history lesson. While re-b00ting does work in the short-term (money-wise), it chumps the characters out a bit. Also, it's easier.

Some people don't know Batman used a gun in his early days. I find that an interesting plot device, if not a quirk to use.

Captain America is a man out of time. There is so much fun to be had with that alone, and keep his old-school mentality in this current world.

Don't even get me started on the goofiness that is Wonder Woman. Sooooo much fun there!

I've rarely seen/read a re-booted character that didn't smell of desperation and money-grab. They tend to be like song covers to me: not-quite-as-good-as-the-original or horrible. Also, many fans I come across buy comics of the main two out of habit. Most admit it's not for the story.

Buckyrig
09-05-2014, 09:06 AM
Except that almost all the the mainstream DC heroes (pre-52) were reboots.

Frankly, at this point anything Marvel or DC does is a money grab. They've been in full-time, full-tilt event mode for years.

Thing is that keeping characters stuck in neutral developmentally is itself a money grab. Keep milking what works/worked. And it's just bad storytelling in the long run to have this wall for character development that you can't go past lest you upset the formula. (The appeal of The Dark Knight Returns isn't merely the darker Batman...it's also a bookend on Bruce's story.)

The whole idea of superheroes being modern myths falls apart when the stories aren't allowed to come to a conclusion. Myths also get generational interpretations. And that is what you're getting every time a new movie or TV series adaptation comes along.

There's something to be had in a final Superman story that isn't merely an Elseworlds possible future that's never going to happen...but that at the same time isn't the final statement on the character because the next vision is out there waiting.

QAN
09-05-2014, 10:21 AM
Except that almost all the the mainstream DC heroes (pre-52) were reboots.

I think the definition of reb00t changed to rewrite in these cases. While we agree on little here, Elseworlds and What If concepts were perfect vehicles for what is being done now. Once that I-don't-want-to-be-tied-down mentality infected the rest of the line, it got boring for me.

This knee-jerk reb00t/rewrite event stuff works well for many, especially the #1 stuff. If that appeals to you - great. It's puzzling to me why anyone would read this stuff.

I used to read/buy 30+ titles in a month. Now, Quantum and Woody in October is the only book on my list for the foreseeable future.

Buckyrig
09-05-2014, 10:30 AM
I think the definition of reb00t changed to rewrite in these cases. While we agree on little here, Elseworlds and What If concepts were perfect

That has less to do with whether or not finishing complete character arcs and then rebooting periodically is a good idea than with your dislike of specific recent reboots.


I thought of two more "bookends": All-Star Superman and Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?...both of which are considered to be on the short short list of best all-time Superman stories.

Moonrider
09-09-2014, 10:26 PM
Remember the whole Crisis of Infiantite Earth was suspose to get rid of DC's alterante universes becuase readers were sick of them? That's one the reasons why people think that Marvel's New Universe line wasn't well received.
Twenty years later DC not only returns to this they the premise of their whole line and people are loving it. Why do you think this?

Wait, people are actually loving New 52? To be honest I don't enjoy any of the stories right now. The redesigned costumes are awful, and for a fresh start it feels an awful lot like the '90s where every character has to be edgy.

Oh wow. Now I know how Paul Sanderson feels pre-New 52. :laugh:

ponyrl
09-11-2014, 01:33 AM
Consider who's behind the reboot and the fact they did that for HEROES REBORN.

It should feel like the 90's since it was done with great success back then. :)

LastActionHero
06-12-2015, 01:07 PM
New 52 is successful because of readers like me.
I am new to the comics, and have trouble in following the old stories with low quality pictures as compared to today's advanced graphics.
New 52 helped me to catch up on almost all titles, and I enjoyed them also.