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View Full Version : Superman/Batman crossover movie, Zach Snyder directs


Moonrider
07-20-2013, 10:06 PM
http://www.joblo.com/movie-news/comic-con-its-official-zack-snyder-to-direct-batman-and-superman-in-one-movie

Bitch about it, why don't we.

:)

Co.Inkadink
07-20-2013, 10:57 PM
I hope they have Batman in this movie and not that imposter from "rises". It might be good.

nimprod
07-21-2013, 03:22 AM
I hope they have Batman in this movie and not that imposter from "rises". It might be good.

?? Whhhaaaaattttt?


You want the Superman imposter to have the real Batman???

Anyways, i like the idea. Probably will be a good chance to introduce a new BatMan

Justice41
07-21-2013, 03:50 PM
Meh MOS kinda sucked so..........

dx
07-21-2013, 07:19 PM
Meh MOS kinda sucked so..........

Maybe in some aspects...I don't like the costume change...if they were going to do it...they could made it look like a the DC Comics redesign...it's better than the movie's.

Everyone..mostly everyone..has been clamoring for a Superman movie, where Superman did Superman like things since the Matrix and Spiderman (Toby one) proved we have the technology to pull it off.

Then we got Singer's pathetic creeper movie with the speedo and super small emblem and yet another "Land" plot by Luther.

That in my mind, Zack (with pressure from WB no doubt) focussed way just much on the visual spectacle because of the failure of Singer's version and fan's demands.

Man of Steel basically overcompensated for past issues dating back to 77.

Still more enjoyable than any other Superman Flick

Moonrider
07-21-2013, 10:30 PM
?? Whhhaaaaattttt?


You want the Superman imposter to have the real Batman???

Anyways, i like the idea. Probably will be a good chance to introduce a new BatMan

A real Batman wouldn't have survived our current global economy. The original Batman would have snapped more neck than Superman.

Anyway Man of Steel dropped hints of the existence of Supergirl, so that will probably be in Man of Steel 2 with World's Finest (or whatever they will call it) going as a separate series.

Justice41
07-21-2013, 11:06 PM
Maybe in some aspects...I don't like the costume change...if they were going to do it...they could made it look like a the DC Comics redesign...it's better than the movie's.

Everyone..mostly everyone..has been clamoring for a Superman movie, where Superman did Superman like things since the Matrix and Spiderman (Toby one) proved we have the technology to pull it off.

Then we got Singer's pathetic creeper movie with the speedo and super small emblem and yet another "Land" plot by Luther.

In my mind Zack (with pressure from WB no doubt) focussed way just much on the visual spectacle because of the failure of Singer's version and fan's demands.

Man of Steel basically overcompensated for past issues dating back to 77.

Still more enjoyable than any other Superman Flick
Costume was fine story was fine but the whole shaky,hand held cam thing just took all the wow out of the movie. The flying sequences were not all that great. The few slow flying sequences were good but none of the butt clenching, squeeze the eyes shut rocket blasts.
And No the Donner flick still was more enjoyable. This one had potential. When the main guy is a background character in his own movie there's something wrong.

nimprod
07-22-2013, 03:27 AM
A real Batman wouldn't have survived our current global economy. The original Batman would have snapped more neck than Superman.

Anyway Man of Steel dropped hints of the existence of Supergirl, so that will probably be in Man of Steel 2 with World's Finest (or whatever they will call it) going as a separate series.

Since they announced Superman and Batman together as next movie, if its MoS 2 then i guess we will have just a short screen time for Batsy.

If its already a Worlds Finest then imo they are rushing things a lot as there should have a BatMan movie before....


Nolan Batman and Snyder SuperMan i would go and see, but a new BatMan to team up Supes might be a good oportunity as well

Moonrider
07-22-2013, 10:31 AM
DC don't really have much choice if they really want a future Justice League movie. Most effort in creating individual franchises of their superheroes become stuck in development hell and Green Lantern the only franchise that actually happened failed miserably. Nolan's Batman is his baby and he made sure that it's his baby alone. Making another Batman reboot this fast after the Nolan trilogy ended is a waste of time and if it fails the franchise will take longer time to recover. Putting Superman and Batman in the same movie while the iron is hot over Man of Steel's success is actually the safest gamble for DC.

Justice41
07-23-2013, 03:23 AM
There is no way that Bats and Supes in the same movie will work. In the cartoons you can achieve a level of speed with batman that seems to keep up with Supes. Pulling that off with live actors will look as cartoonish as Foara fighting the Military guys. Only reason I see to introduce Bats is to introduce Kryptonite and Lex Luthor and to start drawing in the other Metahumans. I also believe the Phantom zone thing has led to Apokalips and Darkseid. Instead of Boom tubes we have the Phantom drives. speculation. I'd like to see them try a worlds finest but i just don't see it working out. Bats will just show up late in the movie.

Paul Sanderson
07-25-2013, 07:39 PM
It can work and work well. Why not? I see no reason why not. Just depends on the quality of the script and the actors chosen.

The MoS costume is light years better than the crappy 'New 52' Superman suit. I don't want to see that suit anywhere near a live-action production. Ugh!

And this film is MoS 2 with Batman also appearing in it. It's not part of a separate series.

Moonrider
07-25-2013, 09:22 PM
I think it makes no different either way since they are treating this as a MoS sequel anyway. If they even decided to call it 'World's Finest' and MoS 2 comes later it really is only a matter of numbering.

It could be interesting though if MoS have no actual series, instead we'll just have movies that builds up from that point until the inevitable Justice League movie. I can even picture it as a three pictures saga: Man of Steel >> World's Finest >> Justice League with maybe several supporting superhero movies in between World's Finest and Justice League. Because face it, after the craziness that is the Kryptonian invasion in MoS it's hard to top that using Toyman or the Intergang. Why not just go bigger. Much bigger. So big you'd have to call in the Justice League.

Justice41
07-25-2013, 11:22 PM
For the League to come together in a believable way you need some sorta connector and Batman would be it. The way it was done in Avengers was a very comic book way and it worked. I'm not a huge DC guys so I don't know what brought them together. I hope it wasn't to Battle Starro. The only threat I see that can be logically used is the Phantom drive opening a hole to Apokalips and DarkSeid. Imagine if the Foara character winds up being twisted into Barda or one of the,, whats the old hags crew of girls? But they need to be careful or it becomes the yellow cloud from GL.

nimprod
07-26-2013, 12:29 AM
well i belive that it is possible to have MoS 2 and introduce Batman. World Finest would be shot in he foot and too early for a already established Batman.

Man of Steel 2 can speed up Jutice league by introducing Batman ( bruce wayne comes to metropolis and for some reason at night hes dressed up as batman chasin some bad guy and supes shows up) good to build relationship and show that here are another heroes out here (movies to introduce someone else, maybe WW or AquaCrap, i mean Aquaman) before he justice legue.

this movie would give time for supes to be established and batman to have hes own movie after or before JL

ponyrl
07-26-2013, 01:51 AM
For the League to come together in a believable way you need some sorta connector and Batman would be it. The way it was done in Avengers was a very comic book way and it worked. I'm not a huge DC guys so I don't know what brought them together. I hope it wasn't to Battle Starro. The only threat I see that can be logically used is the Phantom drive opening a hole to Apokalips and DarkSeid. Imagine if the Foara character winds up being twisted into Barda or one of the,, whats the old hags crew of girls? But they need to be careful or it becomes the yellow cloud from GL.

Guess DC saw that work in FF rise of the surfer and said 'hey, let's have a cloud also'! :laugh:

Justice41
07-26-2013, 02:16 AM
Guess DC saw that work in FF rise of the surfer and said 'hey, let's have a cloud also'! :laugh:

I guffawed when I sw the yellow head in the cloud kinda settle in while orbiting earth. Looked like the shake from Aqua teen hunger force. Damn that was a shitfest of a flick.

cheeseisgood1918
07-26-2013, 08:32 AM
I like that they're doing this for a few reasons. DC seems like they're finally making the statement now that, like in the comics, everything starts with Superman. Maybe the MoS movies will be the foundation that the JLA movie will be built on.

They can use that franchise to introduce their other characters. Does anybody really care to see an entire Aquaman movie, or can we just introduced him in one of the MoS Films? I like the Flash, but can he carry an entire feature length movie? Throw them in with Superman.

Co.Inkadink
07-26-2013, 08:51 AM
I'm glad a new Batman will be introduced, anything to get DKR out of my mind. They should do a WW movie as well with a Flash cameo before Justice League. She is the one character who needs it. Flash can be explained easily, also GL can either be Reynolds or another earthling GL. The GL movie stunk but set the groundwork for him.

Comix Obsession
07-26-2013, 08:57 AM
Henry Cavill was perfect as Superman, but the character is still kind of boring (difficult) to handle. How can a, basically, invincible man be feasibly matched up with Batman? Are they going to underplay Superman's powers, or overplay Batman's? I'm interested to see how they keep the two matched, because, honestly, when it's done in the comics it's a lot easier to do - you can take a lot more liberties than you can in film without having an audience laugh at your work.

Where was the hint about Supergirl in Man of Steel? I completely missed out on that amongst all the collateral damage Superman was causing.

Co.Inkadink
07-26-2013, 10:16 AM
Henry Cavill was perfect as Superman, but the character is still kind of boring (difficult) to handle. How can a, basically, invincible man be feasibly matched up with Batman? Are they going to underplay Superman's powers, or overplay Batman's? I'm interested to see how they keep the two matched, because, honestly, when it's done in the comics it's a lot easier to do - you can take a lot more liberties than you can in film without having an audience laugh at your work.

That's the problem even on the JL cartoon they always had to depower Superman or leave him out altogether for a mission. I say Batman does the sneaky spy stuff with Luthor or whatever doing the breaking into buildings covertly computer stuff and taking out bad guys and then Superman comes in and takes out the big bomb or menace. The trick is to make Batmans role essential to the victory and only Batman can accomplish it.

Duane Korslund
07-26-2013, 10:21 AM
Kryp-to-nite.....its gonna happen....

Moonrider
07-26-2013, 01:01 PM
Henry Cavill was perfect as Superman, but the character is still kind of boring (difficult) to handle. How can a, basically, invincible man be feasibly matched up with Batman? Are they going to underplay Superman's powers, or overplay Batman's? I'm interested to see how they keep the two matched, because, honestly, when it's done in the comics it's a lot easier to do - you can take a lot more liberties than you can in film without having an audience laugh at your work.

Where was the hint about Supergirl in Man of Steel? I completely missed out on that amongst all the collateral damage Superman was causing.

Inside the 'fortress of solitude' spaceship, there is one opened cryo tube with no one in it. The prequel comic book established that the ship was originally piloted by Kara Zor-El on a mission to terraform another planet when it crash landed on Earth because of one lunatic Kryptonian thought that it would be a good idea to kill all the crew and find the nearest planet with a yellow sun. It doesn't really make sense but heck the villain is a lunatic. Anyway she killed the crazy ass dude and prepared for emergency landing after sending a beacon for any closest Kryptonian outpost to find the ship. Presumably that's how Clark finds the ship.

Justice41
07-26-2013, 03:22 PM
Inside the 'fortress of solitude' spaceship, there is one opened cryo tube with no one in it. The prequel comic book established that the ship was originally piloted by Kara Zor-El on a mission to terraform another planet when it crash landed on Earth because of one lunatic Kryptonian thought that it would be a good idea to kill all the crew and find the nearest planet with a yellow sun. It doesn't really make sense but heck the villain is a lunatic. Anyway she killed the crazy ass dude and prepared for emergency landing after sending a beacon for any closest Kryptonian outpost to find the ship. Presumably that's how Clark finds the ship.

Clark found the ship listening to those guys in the bar. Even if Supergirl is on earth she would be over 20 thousand years old. In other words, dead.

Bishop
07-26-2013, 03:25 PM
Clark found the ship listening to those guys in the bar. Even if Supergirl is on earth she would be over 20 thousand years old. In other words, dead.

We don't know when the cryo-pod opened.

Justice41
07-26-2013, 06:21 PM
We don't know when the cryo-pod opened.

we have an idea because the ice surrounding the ship was supposed to be 20 thousand years old. Then again the ship was in sorta a cave like opening so who knows. But I don't place any validity on the pre comics. most of those are just money making gimmicks. They did the same thing for x-men and the tie ins had zero to do with the movie.

Moonrider
07-26-2013, 07:41 PM
http://collider.com/man-of-steel-easter-eggs/

It's one of those loose ends that may or may not going to be addressed in the future and there is a possibility that the prequel was written after the fact, but the connection is there nonetheless. It's easy enough to write that Kara crawled back to the cryo pod to heal (the pod may have limited healing properties for anything short of a mortal wound), and also the possibility that Clark may have overheard the exact location of the ship by eavesdropping but he was actively looking for it while he traveled the globe.

Paul Sanderson
07-29-2013, 09:23 PM
Interesting list there.

cheeseisgood1918
07-30-2013, 08:57 AM
Henry Cavill was perfect as Superman, but the character is still kind of boring (difficult) to handle. How can a, basically, invincible man be feasibly matched up with Batman
They quoted something from a prominent graphic novel featuring a Superman Batman fight right before the teaser, which I think, is supposed to be a clue as to the "how" of it all.

"This is what I want you to remember Clark. My hands around your neck!"

Batman is the smartest fighter in the world. He knows how much of a threat Superman could be on the wrong side. You don't think he would spend a great deal of time and resources preparing for that eventuality? The guy has a contingency for everything. If I had to pick anyone to go up against a god and have a chance to figure out how to win, it would be Batman.

Kryp-to-nite.....its gonna happen....

More or less, but I think Bats is also the more skilled fighter, and that can come into play once the Kryp-to-nite weakens him.

Moonrider
07-30-2013, 06:19 PM
"This is what I want you to remember Clark. My hands around your neck!"

This can also alludes to the way Supes broke Zod's neck. This works for the Batman/Superman relationship by essentially saying that what Supes can do to Zod, Bats can do to him.

That's badass.

Also, I think Batman has more in common with Lex Luthor than anyone else. Strange that it never gets brought up in any of the JLA titles with him on it, even when the whole Brother Eye debacle was going on.

Buckyrig
07-31-2013, 10:48 AM
It's one thing to reference or pay homage to DKR, but tonally and thematically its context is the 80s. "My hands around your neck" is out of place in 2013 (or 14, 15, whatever).

Moonrider
07-31-2013, 11:56 AM
I think the more tonally and thematically correct lines for Batman to say in 2013-2015 would be, "I know your Facebook account password, Clark. I can make you gay or lesbian in an instant."

nimprod
07-31-2013, 03:39 PM
I think the more tonally and thematically correct lines for Batman to say in 2013-2015 would be, "I know your Facebook account password, Clark. I can make you gay or lesbian in an instant."

:slap:

Comix Obsession
07-31-2013, 03:42 PM
They quoted something from a prominent graphic novel featuring a Superman Batman fight right before the teaser, which I think, is supposed to be a clue as to the "how" of it all.

"This is what I want you to remember Clark. My hands around your neck!"

Batman is the smartest fighter in the world. He knows how much of a threat Superman could be on the wrong side. You don't think he would spend a great deal of time and resources preparing for that eventuality? The guy has a contingency for everything. If I had to pick anyone to go up against a god and have a chance to figure out how to win, it would be Batman.

But none of this makes sense. Here's my issue when going from comics (where you have more freedom) to film (where you still have freedom, but need to keep the audience engaged on a more 'realistic' level if you want to engage them in the story) - Superman is invincible so Batman can't hurt him. Batman's hands around Superman's neck - so what? That won't hurt Superman - he's Superman.

Secondly, Batman being smart doesn't change anything. Superman is invincible. Batman can't hurt Superman - so being smart doesn't change a thing.

This is my problem with the whole thing - making it believable. I really am curious how they are going to do this.

Duane Korslund
07-31-2013, 03:44 PM
But none of this makes sense. Here's my issue when going from comics (where you have more freedom) to film (where you still have freedom, but need to keep the audience engaged on a more 'realistic' level if you want to engage them in the story) - Superman is invincible so Batman can't hurt him. Batman's hands around Superman's neck - so what? That won't hurt Superman - he's Superman.

Secondly, Batman being smart doesn't change anything. Superman is invincible. Batman can't hurt Superman - so being smart doesn't change a thing.

This is my problem with the whole thing - making it believable. I really am curious how they are going to do this.

I'll say it again...


Kryp-to-nite!

You could be an elderly man with tri focals and a raging case of the trots, but with a kryptonite ring, pendant, boxer shorts, you'd own ol Supes.

cheeseisgood1918
07-31-2013, 11:22 PM
I'll say it again...


Kryp-to-nite!

You could be an elderly man with tri focals and a raging case of the trots, but with a kryptonite ring, pendant, boxer shorts, you'd own ol Supes.

Right. He's invincible, except that he has this really big glaring weakness that Batman totally knows about and would have no compunction about exploiting.

Superman doesn't really need to worry about strategy. He's not someone that has to think every situation through. Most of the time he can just walk into a fight fist-first, and he'll probably win because yeah, he's mostly invincible.

Batman only ever wins because he's learned to prepare for every situation, and see a fight from every angle before he engages in it. I'm not saying Bats wins it, just that he has certain advantages himself. Superman's perceived invulnerability could actually work in Batman's favor if Clark underestimates him.

Comix Obsession
08-01-2013, 10:31 AM
I'll say it again...


Kryp-to-nite!

You could be an elderly man with tri focals and a raging case of the trots, but with a kryptonite ring, pendant, boxer shorts, you'd own ol Supes.

I'm aware of Kryptonite, but if that's the only thing they've got, this film will get old very quickly. It also completely cheapens Batman's competency - if an elderly man with tri focals and a raging case of the trots can defeat Superman with kryptonite, then what possible respect should we have for Batman?

Of course, this movie doesn't sound like it's going to be Batman VS Superman, it's obviously going to be a team-up movie. If they do go down the route of a battle, I really do hope they come up with something a little better than 'kryp-to-nite'. That may please you as a fan, but to everyone else it's going to seem a little too easy.

Buckyrig
08-01-2013, 10:45 AM
Frankly, most non-kryptonite plans to capture Superman come off pretty cheesy.

You've got exposure to red sun rays (even vaguer and more all-over-the-map than kryptonite already is in its application), you've got magic (no way they use that in a movie), you've got the Parasite (maybe, but would more likely than not be done poorly in a movie), and you've got overpowering him (hitting him with an asteroid or some crap that usually stretches suspension of disbelief in comic form as it is).

I suppose they could just shoot him in the heel with an arrow. :nyah:

Justice41
08-01-2013, 04:01 PM
Once the whole alien thing was established it is not a stretch to start introducing Darkseid.

Jasen Smith
08-01-2013, 07:07 PM
Superman looks Batman in the face, "I know your identity!"
Batman takes a step forward, coming face to face with Superman, "I know your weakness." Batman says before delivering a vicious blow to Superman's jaw.

Superman tries to recover but is too weak from the Kryptonite and instead rolls of the building to get far enough away. Batman looks over the edge of the skyscraper but Superman is already behind him. Batman turns, ready to defend only to see Superman grab the Batplane and throw it out into outer space before it mockingly salutes and flies away.

Moonrider
08-01-2013, 10:24 PM
Batman could just send him and an atomic bomb to the phantom zone. If that doesn't kill him, Faora and all the rest of Zod's crew will. Also, I think the phantom zone's atmosphere deactivates his superpowers. Bats could easily make a phantom zone emulator. So yeah, the phantom zone is basically the new kryptonite.

Co.Inkadink
08-01-2013, 10:35 PM
Let's write the script and send it in.

Duane Korslund
08-01-2013, 11:33 PM
I'm aware of Kryptonite, but if that's the only thing they've got, this film will get old very quickly. It also completely cheapens Batman's competency - if an elderly man with tri focals and a raging case of the trots can defeat Superman with kryptonite, then what possible respect should we have for Batman?

Of course, this movie doesn't sound like it's going to be Batman VS Superman, it's obviously going to be a team-up movie. If they do go down the route of a battle, I really do hope they come up with something a little better than 'kryp-to-nite'. That may please you as a fan, but to everyone else it's going to seem a little too easy.

no, it wouldnt please me at all...I think its too easy as well....but we all know its gonna happen....Hollywood script writers are nothing if not predictable and shameless about going back to the well....

Its lazy logic...but within the confines of Batmans morality Kryptonite is his best bet....Supes is nigh indestructible and Bats, for all his virtue, is squishy comparatively. I'm sure bats can throw everything at Superman in his arsenal and keep him from grinding him to a sticky paste for a while, but eventually Batman will have to exploit Supermans weakness....which he has very few....I dunno...maybe Batman can blot out the sun long enough for superman to depower and then kick his ass....

Hmm...maybe there's something to that...Supes seems to be a solar battery...just gotta suck the juice from him....better than kryptonite :)
But something tells me the weakness will be Kryp-to-nite

Edit: a cold shiver went down my spine....doesnt some of this sound like The Quest for Peace....hmm...bad idea....

Luke Noonan
08-07-2013, 10:03 PM
Bruce Wayne can afford a black hole from CERN, and from one of those babies not even light can escape, meaning even if Superman can resist its irresistable gravity, he'd be completely leeched of power.

Comix Obsession
08-08-2013, 12:10 PM
I don't think even Hollywood scriptwriters would think Batman destroying the World to beat Superman would be a good idea.

Duane Korslund
08-08-2013, 12:27 PM
unless he had an Anti Black Hole bat pellet....damn you 60's!

Luke Noonan
08-11-2013, 11:53 AM
This is DCU physics, remember? On the other hand, BM could just go back in time and divert Kal-Els' pod to Pluto.

Phatman
08-11-2013, 12:26 PM
Still more enjoyable than any other Superman Flick

If "enjoyable" means a story that makes no sense and horrible character development then yes, it was "enjoyable".

Moonrider
08-11-2013, 07:32 PM
If "enjoyable" means a story that makes no sense and horrible character development then yes, it was "enjoyable".

Add 'boring' to that description and you get Superman Returns.

Add 'outdated' and you get the original Superman movie series.

Buckyrig
08-11-2013, 07:55 PM
Add 'boring' to that description and you get Superman Returns.

Add 'outdated' and you get the original Superman movie series.

The original Superman movie is only outdated if you think Superman is outdated. And if Superman is outdated, the world is in sorry shape.

Moonrider
08-11-2013, 11:01 PM
The original Superman movie is only outdated if you think Superman is outdated. And if Superman is outdated, the world is in sorry shape.

And by 'the world' you mean USA.

It's a movie, not a holy bible.

Buckyrig
08-12-2013, 01:36 AM
And by 'the world' you mean USA.

No, I meant the world.

Superman fits pretty well into all that Perennial Philosophy crap. The broadest stated values of most of the world falls pretty much in line with Superman's. So yeah, a world that's more impressed with a mopey Superman who snaps necks than a stalwart paradigm figure, we're in trouble.

It's a movie, not a holy bible.

Uh...ok then... :huh:

Moonrider
08-12-2013, 03:36 AM
The world has always been in a sorry shape, but the fact that people nowadays have to make up a totally fictional character to look up to instead of real humans who are more relatable to us in every way is already a sure sign that we are on a fast track to armageddon.

Luke Noonan
08-13-2013, 01:51 PM
People have always had to make up totally fictional characters to look up to (looking at you, God), so really the world is no worse than it ever was, it's just faster.

Moonrider
08-13-2013, 09:21 PM
People have always had to make up totally fictional characters to look up to (looking at you, God])

Well that topic needs a cross-religious discussion of its own. :laugh:

Seriously though, I just do not share the same need to deify Superman and makes him this high concept of what man should thrive towards. Mostly because I do not relate to him anymore. Does that make me a bad person? I certainly hope not.

Comix Obsession
08-14-2013, 07:48 AM
No, I meant the world.

Superman fits pretty well into all that Perennial Philosophy crap. The broadest stated values of most of the world falls pretty much in line with Superman's. So yeah, a world that's more impressed with a mopey Superman who snaps necks than a stalwart paradigm figure, we're in trouble.

Moonrider's point was that Superman isn't an inspiration to the World. He's an American icon who has become a part of pop-culture but isn't looked up to as an inspiration by the rest of us. This attitude that everything American is looked up to by the rest of the World is a myth perpetuated only by Americans who have never seen another Country. So yeah, if CINEMA-GOERS prefer a mopey, emo Superman, it won't really change anything except the direction of one of the most stale characters in comics.

Luke Noonan
08-14-2013, 08:17 AM
As much as any fictional character can be called an inspiration, Superman is a good if impossible example to follow. The thing with Superman is that while Americans can claim he represents their culture, the point of him is he is both completely foreign, and an everyman-figure. It depends on what you define as 'American', but as a Brit, I don't see anything particularly 'American' about Superman. He could live in any country in the world and it wouldn't change the character very much, because almost every country has farms and journalism.
However, the DCCinematicUniverse is completely different from anything in print, so I doubt it would make any impression on his direction, and whether he is 'stale' is subject to personal taste (and personally, I think the emo-beginning was kind of necessary to erase memories of what went before for film-goers. By the end of MOS, we get a dynamic SM, so roll on part 2).

Buckyrig
08-14-2013, 12:42 PM
Moonrider's point was that Superman isn't an inspiration to the World. He's an American icon who has become a part of pop-culture but isn't looked up to as an inspiration by the rest of us.

Horseshit.

For all the bleating about America, the world loves and gobbles up our culture like addicts. Can't go anywhere on this fucking planet without running into McDonalds or American cigarettes.

But sure, Superman is the offensive element of the culture. :yawn:

(Co-created by a Canadian for Christ's sake. Metropolis was originally modeled after Toronto and The Daily Star (the original name of the paper where Clark and Lois worked) is named after the Toronto Daily Star.)

"The American Way" was tacked on to the end of "Truth and Justice" for the TV show...in the 1950s...during the Cold War.

It's like no one's ever read the comics. :(

Comix Obsession
08-14-2013, 01:41 PM
Horseshit.

For all the bleating about America, the world loves and gobbles up our culture like addicts. Can't go anywhere on this fucking planet without running into McDonalds or American cigarettes.

But sure, Superman is the offensive element of the culture. :yawn:

(Co-created by a Canadian for Christ's sake. Metropolis was originally modeled after Toronto and The Daily Star (the original name of the paper where Clark and Lois worked) is named after the Toronto Daily Star.)

"The American Way" was tacked on to the end of "Truth and Justice" for the TV show...in the 1950s...during the Cold War.

It's like no one's ever read the comics. :(

I never said 'offensive'. I never even eluded to Superman being 'offensive'. I find the idea that a 'mopey' Superman being liked somehow reflects the whole World going down the tubes moronic, but such is the narrow window through which some people look.

As for the rest of it, it doesn't much matter. So what that the character was co-created by a Canadian? The character is a wholesome American chap for all intents and purposes, that's all that matters when dealing with the character. If writing a book about the creation of Superman, sure, that stuff would be important, but otherwise, doesn't change the point that, no, the rest of the World doesn't see a Superman film changing the World.

Justice41
08-14-2013, 02:08 PM
Was it supposed to?What kind malarky are you guys telling yourselves? It's a movie. if you look to movies for inspiration time to go outside more.

Buckyrig
08-14-2013, 02:11 PM
I never said 'offensive'. I never even eluded to Superman being 'offensive'. I find the idea that a 'mopey' Superman being liked somehow reflects the whole World going down the tubes moronic, but such is the narrow window through which some people look.

As for the rest of it, it doesn't much matter. So what that the character was co-created by a Canadian? The character is a wholesome American chap for all intents and purposes, that's all that matters when dealing with the character. If writing a book about the creation of Superman, sure, that stuff would be important, but otherwise, doesn't change the point that, no, the rest of the World doesn't see a Superman film changing the World.

Go back and follow the thread of the conversation.

Then remove the parts of my argument that don't exist other than in your and Moonrider's posts and reassess.

Buckyrig
08-14-2013, 02:24 PM
Was it supposed to?What kind malarky are you guys telling yourselves? It's a movie. if you look to movies for inspiration time to go outside more.

What inspiration?

Superman embodies values that most of the world professes to embrace. So, he's a reflection of universal values, not merely American ones per se.

If Superman is "outdated", then that is a statement that, by extension, those values are outdated.

Which would indicate a problem, no?

Of course, I don't believe Superman is outdated. There's a reason the new movie has mixed reviews. The hardcore fan support can't be counted until the fever breaks. Give it a year or two and see what people think.

Justice41
08-15-2013, 12:16 AM
Not meant for you Bucks but for our foreign friend with inferiority complex'. The new supes flick just lacked some awesome scenes and mouth drop stuff.

Moonrider
08-15-2013, 01:40 AM
Horseshit.

For all the bleating about America, the world loves and gobbles up our culture like addicts. Can't go anywhere on this fucking planet without running into McDonalds or American cigarettes.

Which is interesting to note that while Hollywood thrives overseas, America itself become more and more disenchanted with their own products. It may not even your products anymore because most of it, including the money, comes from China. In truth, nobody really eats an American McDonalds. Big Macs here are tiny little bite-sized buns with less than 10% meat in it because it's less costly to make and it still sell. We eat KFC fried chickens with rice, we prefer Hot & Spicy than O.R, American cigarettes are shitty little sticks with nicotine level so low you might as well burn toilet paper in your mouth but we just love our locally blended Lucky Strikes. We love the US like you love Bali and Phuket and oh I don't know Bavarian cream filled donuts. We buy into the romanticism of it, not the ideals or the values itself. The ones with 'inferiority complex' here would be the American brands, who knows that it can never survive outside its place of origin without adapting to other cultures they want to sell to.

And Superman was, first and foremost, an American product. Superman can and probably has become outdated, just like any man-made concept out there. It's just that since Superman can be anything to many different people with different values, it may not have become outdated to you.

Justice41
08-15-2013, 02:07 AM
All this angst from a movie. Food, cigarettes? That's what this has come down to, consumerism? who gives a fuck. It's a freaking movie. Didn't like it oh well. NEXT!!!!

Comix Obsession
08-15-2013, 08:20 AM
Go back and follow the thread of the conversation.

Then remove the parts of my argument that don't exist other than in your and Moonrider's posts and reassess.

We haven't made anything up, we've just quoted what you said. You said a world that likes a mopey Superman is in trouble, and we called you out on what a ridiculously overblown statement that is.

As it is, I enjoyed Man of Steel. It was just so ridiculously violent I think everyone forgot which character they were using. These superhero movies are fast becoming cut-and-paste affairs, and that's a shame.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against American culture and love many, many things that come from your homeland. I just view the opinion that you know what the rest of the World is thinking somewhat ignorant.

All this angst from a movie. Food, cigarettes? That's what this has come down to, consumerism? who gives a fuck. It's a freaking movie. Didn't like it oh well. NEXT!!!!

Off you go, then!

Buckyrig
08-15-2013, 11:08 AM
We haven't made anything up, we've just quoted what you said. You said a world that likes a mopey Superman is in trouble, and we called you out on what a ridiculously overblown statement that is.

A mopey Superman who snaps necks.

And you didn't "just" anything. It somehow turned into a complaint about American hubris. So, yeah, something got overblown. :yawn:

I just view the opinion that you know what the rest of the World is thinking somewhat ignorant.

So, truth, justice, helping your fellow man, the strong protecting the weak, peace, and civic mindedness aren't values in the UK then?

And as I mentioned earlier, these tend to be - in some form - professed values of all the world religions. They're only American values insomuch as America holds them too.

Comix Obsession
08-15-2013, 01:44 PM
A mopey Superman who snaps necks.

And you didn't "just" anything. It somehow turned into a complaint about American hubris. So, yeah, something got overblown. :yawn:

It turned into a complaint about Superman being seen as anything other than a comic book character by people outside the US. I'm pretty sure he's seen just a comic book character within the US, but he definitely isn't affecting the rest of the World outside of comic books or movies. So, yeah, nothing got overblown, just responded to.

So, truth, justice, helping your fellow man, the strong protecting the weak, peace, and civic mindedness aren't values in the UK then?

And as I mentioned earlier, these tend to be - in some form - professed values of all the world religions. They're only American values insomuch as America holds them too.

They are, unfortunately, failing values, but yes, they are values held around the World (apparently). However, what does this have to do with Superman? You think Superman is really looked to as a reinforcement of these values? Wasn't there something else with people praying and reading books that has kinda been taken up by different nations all over the World that (supposedly) reinforces these values? Yeah, Superman hasn't changed the World except in the comic books.

Buckyrig
08-15-2013, 02:26 PM
It turned into a complaint about Superman being seen as anything other than a comic book character by people outside the US.

No.

The original Superman movie is only outdated if you think Superman is outdated. And if Superman is outdated, the world is in sorry shape.

And by 'the world' you mean USA.

It's a movie, not a holy bible.

Comix Obsession
08-15-2013, 03:28 PM
You're quoting Moonrider, not me.

Seriously, if you've got no response, just don't respond. It wasn't meant to turn into a back-and-forth. I don't agree with what you said, you think I'm wrong, I think you're wrong, that's it.

I heard Orlando Bloom was considered for the role of Batman. Now there's something to get angry about.

Buckyrig
08-15-2013, 04:23 PM
You're quoting Moonrider, not me.

Moonrider's point was that Superman isn't an inspiration to the World. He's an American icon who has become a part of pop-culture but isn't looked up to as an inspiration by the rest of us. This attitude that everything American is looked up to by the rest of the World is a myth perpetuated only by Americans who have never seen another Country. So yeah, if CINEMA-GOERS prefer a mopey, emo Superman, it won't really change anything except the direction of one of the most stale characters in comics.

Seriously, if you've got no response, just don't respond. It wasn't meant to turn into a back-and-forth. I don't agree with what you said, you think I'm wrong, I think you're wrong, that's it.

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here that you've lost the progression of the conversation.

Co.Inkadink
08-15-2013, 05:23 PM
They're making a Superman Batman movie any thoughts?

Duane Korslund
08-15-2013, 05:36 PM
I try to be shocked and say "Orlando Bloom???" But after George Clooney, Val Kilmer, and Michael Keaton (Christian Bale is forgivable, despite the throat cancer he suffered when in Batman form)...I wouldnt be surprised it they brought in Jerry Seinfeld or Jane Lynch to play Batman....

Moonrider
08-15-2013, 09:30 PM
Dudes quote me all you want but I'm signing off from this discussion m'kay? :laugh:

Comix Obsession
08-16-2013, 08:08 AM
I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here that you've lost the progression of the conversation.

You: If Superman is outdated, the world is in sorry shape.

Moonrider: And by 'the world' you mean USA.

You: No, I mean the World.

Me: Moonrider's point was that Superman isn't an inspiration to the World. He isn't looked up to as an inspiration by the rest of us.

You: You misquoted me. Go back and follow the thread of the conversation. America rulez all kingdomz.

Me: We haven't made anything up, we've just quoted what you said. You said a world that likes a mopey Superman is in trouble, and we called you out on what a ridiculously overblown statement that is.

You: A mopey Superman who snaps necks. And you didn't "just" anything. It somehow turned into a complaint about American hubris. So, yeah, something got overblown.

Me: It turned into a complaint about Superman being seen as anything other than a comic book character by people outside the US.

You: No.

Me: Yes.

You: No.

Me: Yes.

You: No.

Me: Yes.

You: No.

Me: Yes.

So now I'm giving YOU the benefit of the doubt that your reading comprehension isn't up to scratch in this particular thread, and that you missed the more important and massive news that Orlando Bloom was considered for the role of Batman. That's me done, unless you want to talk about the more important and massive news that Orlando Bloom was considered for the role of Batman, otherwise, that's me done, unless you want to talk about the more important and massive news that Orlando Bloom was considered for the role of Batman. Or not.

Buckyrig
08-16-2013, 10:49 AM
Didn't even read all that.

Plainly put.

Moonrider insults me...based on a subjunctive statement. (But at least his can be written off as snark.)

You insult me...based on opinions you and he have assigned to me which I have not professed. (Not that it would be ok anyway...and I'm not arguing the technicality of the no-balls way you phrased your insult.)

The rest is white noise.

Throw insults...expect a response.

And your continued attempts to "good-naturedly" change the subject or laugh off my "overreaction" or pretend it's a simple disagreement and yes/no back-and-forth are not charming or whatever the hell you think they're supposed to be.

You're out of line.

Comix Obsession
08-16-2013, 11:48 AM
Didn't even read all that.

Well you're just awesome.

Moonrider
08-16-2013, 11:05 PM
Moonrider insults me...based on a subjunctive statement. (But at least his can be written off as snark.)

Whoa.
I merely stated my opinions on the matter. I'm truly sorry if you feel insulted, but that was never the intention. For the sake of good mental health I opt to drop this discussion before I do more damage.

Justice41
08-17-2013, 01:37 AM
You'd think with Wolfie gone ya'll could stop this nonsense. It's a movie not an earth shaking event. It's entertainment not a life altering event.

Luke Noonan
08-19-2013, 09:31 AM
For all the bleating about America, the world loves and gobbles up our culture like addicts. Can't go anywhere on this fucking planet without running into McDonalds or American cigarettes.The only disturbing thing for me in all this is that fried beef and nicotine are considered 'culture' (and that the bibilical god is still considered a thing, of course).

I am really looking forward to seeing the Superman/Batman movie, especially how they integrate Batmans' villains into the story, assuming they do.

Bishop
08-22-2013, 11:02 PM
Soooooo... They've cast Ben Affleck as Batman in this one. Anyone think that is a good idea?

Aaron Walther
08-22-2013, 11:21 PM
It's the best possible casting I could have ever imagined from a Zach Snyder Batman/Superman movie.

Crash and burn in the most spectacular way ever.

kamikaze
08-23-2013, 12:19 AM
god I want this to work, maybe Ben has matured as an actor to make this work. But damn, this is frustrating.

brandonpatton
08-23-2013, 07:00 AM
I, for one, will never see this movie. Guillermo Del Toro's planned movie is the most exciting DC movie I have ever heard about and I really hope it happens.

Luke Noonan
08-23-2013, 10:09 AM
I, for one, will never see this movie. Guillermo Del Toro's planned movie is the most exciting DC movie I have ever heard about and I really hope it happens.Not if they get Joseph-Gordon Levitt to play John Constantine.

Justice41
08-23-2013, 11:22 AM
Soooooo... They've cast Ben Affleck as Batman in this one. Anyone think that is a good idea?

Nope, they just doomed this flick to BO hell. Batman will now be as tall or taller than Superman, kinda like he is in DC 52. Sad choice for Batman even worse for Bruce Wayne with that stupid smirk always on his face.

Comix Obsession
08-23-2013, 02:59 PM
Nope, they just doomed this flick to BO hell. Batman will now be as tall or taller than Superman, kinda like he is in DC 52. Sad choice for Batman even worse for Bruce Wayne with that stupid smirk always on his face.

And you're not a fanboy! :laugh:

Ben Affleck is an odd choice, especially since I thought he was the original choice to direct the Justice League film? Anyway, I don't know. He's definitely matured as an actor, but he's found his real talent behind the camera. I was pretty impressed with him in Argo, though - I thought he did a good job there. He's gonna have to do something really impressive in this, though.

Justice41
08-23-2013, 03:46 PM
Who ever said I wasn't a fanboy, I've always said I wasn't your kind of fanboy. You know, the kind who starts arguments over who can beat who or who would be cool doing this or that. You know, the smelly fat slob breathing on you too closely in the comics shop.

Co.Inkadink
08-23-2013, 04:48 PM
Hey Ben Affleck was great in Phantoms YO!

Duane Korslund
08-23-2013, 05:01 PM
Hey Ben Affleck was great in Phantoms YO!

He was da bomb in Phantoms Yo!

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSjvhKX2gX3_nPjjFjT1IXftM0cuRREh Wcm-CRmh630VWhs_o8scA

jeffo46
08-23-2013, 05:29 PM
I say give Affleck a chance guys. It wasn't his fault that Daredevil sucked . I blame the director and the studio for allowing that piece of shit to ever be made. For starters , look at the costume he was forced to wear . He looked more like a biker than Daredevil . Secondly, even though Michael Clarke Duncan was a fine actor , he did not look the role of the Kingpin . Ben Affleck looks like a Bruce Wayne type and has the size along with the build, for the role of Batman. I'm hoping Snyder decides to go along with the fan's wishes and have him wear the traditional Grey and Black outfit instead of one of those damn black rubber suits. One can only hope I suppose !

Scribbly
08-23-2013, 08:37 PM
Ben Affleck to play Batman?
How do you like it?

http://www.nbcnews.com/entertainment/holy-casting-news-ben-affleck-play-batman-man-steel-sequel-6C10984418

Holy casting news, Robin! Ben Affleck will take on the role of Batman in the as-yet-unnamed superhero movie coming from Warner Bros. in the summer of 2015.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/movies/2013/08/23/ben-affleck-batman-casting/2691833/

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-207_162-57599811/ben-affleck-to-play-batman-in-man-of-steel-sequel/

nimprod
08-23-2013, 08:39 PM
i think its more than obvious that Snyder doing things way different from what we know and expect. he proved what hes doing can be awsome like Man of Steel was. So ill give a chance and have faith that the Plans they have for Ben as Batman will result in something new and exciting and make one hell of a movie (or at least enough for the studios to continue bet on Super Heroes movies)

Justice41
08-23-2013, 10:14 PM
That would be all good if Man of Steel was good.

Lord Fejj
08-24-2013, 03:36 AM
Not my top choice but better than Michael Keaton.

Nitecrawlah2
08-24-2013, 04:26 AM
Yeah I was somewhat WTF initially, then immediately realized that practically anyone who's ever cast as Batman gets the same reaction. I'm sure he'll do fine.

nimprod
08-24-2013, 10:13 AM
well at least it made money and revitalized Supes

Comix Obsession
08-24-2013, 10:22 AM
I say give Affleck a chance guys. It wasn't his fault that Daredevil sucked . I blame the director and the studio for allowing that piece of shit to ever be made. For starters , look at the costume he was forced to wear . He looked more like a biker than Daredevil . Secondly, even though Michael Clarke Duncan was a fine actor , he did not look the role of the Kingpin . Ben Affleck looks like a Bruce Wayne type and has the size along with the build, for the role of Batman. I'm hoping Snyder decides to go along with the fan's wishes and have him wear the traditional Grey and Black outfit instead of one of those damn black rubber suits. One can only hope I suppose !

http://www.takeaclick.com/2013/08/24/fans-petition-to-ban-ben-affleck-as-batman/928/

Pretty much sums it up for me. I also don't think Daredevil was anywhere near Affleck's fault, either. When you pick the film apart, his performance is pretty, pretty far from the top of the list. Mark Steven Johnson is the problem with that movie, and that he still gets work as a director is beyond my capacity of understanding. I guess the fact that he wrote Grumpy Old Men has something to do with it. He directed Ghost Rider, too. The guy is a talentless director, he's just awful. Then there was Jennifer Garner. Ugh. She just can't act. Then Michael Clarke Duncan as Kingpin. Why? Was it BECAUSE he is black? Was a point being proven? It just didn't work. Then came the effects. If you watch closely (or not so) at the end, Daredevil is atop a five/six storey building, looking down at that journalist guy. Then he runs across the rooftop and dives down, and suddenly he's at least 30 storeys off the ground. So now New York is Minas Tirith? It was lazy, and it had no soul, that's what made it suck. Affleck was not the problem with Daredevil, Mark Steven Johnson was. Rumours were, MSJ was attached to direct a Preacher film/tv series. That's how infuriating he is.

Anyway, the above link is a good one - it reflects the hysteria surrounding all this. I really hope Affleck can pull off a similar feat, though without the tragedy following it.

Moonrider
08-24-2013, 10:42 AM
If you don't like Man of Steel, you probably won't like the sequel no matter who is cast as Batman.

I knew Daredevil was a piece of shit when half of the character's name uttered in that movie are all supposed to be 'homages' to Marvel creators. The good part is they decapitated Quesada off screen. That was meta hilarious.

Aaron Walther
08-24-2013, 12:45 PM
Zack Snyder is at least as bad a director, if not worse, than Mark Steven Johnson.

I'm just glad that we'll be able to make Ben Afleck Batman and Daredevil jokes for the rest of eternity thanks to bad filmmakers.

As a comedy writer, I honestly couldn't be happier with this casting.

Co.Inkadink
08-24-2013, 01:24 PM
I'm just glad that we'll be able to make Ben Afleck Batman and Daredevil jokes for the rest of eternity thanks to bad filmmakers.

Silver linings all around!

cheeseisgood1918
08-24-2013, 01:34 PM
Yeah I was somewhat WTF initially, then immediately realized that practically anyone who's ever cast as Batman gets the same reaction. I'm sure he'll do fine.

I think that's a good point.

Also, Affleck may actually be a blessing in disguise. He's a huge Batman fan, and if they are going to try to do something stupid with the movie, say putting nipple on the suit for instance, he'll probably be the first person to speak up. Plus, he has enough clout in Hollywood these days, that people would actually listen to him. He could be the fan boy advocate.

I haven't forgotten about Daredevil, but he didn't have as much pull at that point as he does now.

Comix Obsession
08-24-2013, 02:27 PM
Zack Snyder is at least as bad a director, if not worse, than Mark Steven Johnson.

I'm just glad that we'll be able to make Ben Afleck Batman and Daredevil jokes for the rest of eternity thanks to bad filmmakers.

As a comedy writer, I honestly couldn't be happier with this casting.

There is no way Snyder is as bad or worse(!!) than MSJ. That's going too far. Snyder may not be the best director in the World, but he's proven his talent.

What jokes do you have so far?

I think that's a good point.

Also, Affleck may actually be a blessing in disguise. He's a huge Batman fan, and if they are going to try to do something stupid with the movie, say putting nipple on the suit for instance, he'll probably be the first person to speak up. Plus, he has enough clout in Hollywood these days, that people would actually listen to him. He could be the fan boy advocate.

I haven't forgotten about Daredevil, but he didn't have as much pull at that point as he does now.

His favourite character is Daredevil, apparently. But yeah, everyone involved in that film is at fault, it was just terrible all round.

We don't need a fan boy advocate. Fan boys would make a far worse Batman film, nay, any film than any semi-professional director would make. Fan boys love things too much, and can't see past that love. That's why you need someone who maybe doesn't care so much about the character, but rather the overall theme. That's why Nolan was such a success.

As it is, I think Affleck is at worst an 'interesting' choice. I think he'll do well.

Buckyrig
08-24-2013, 08:11 PM
After Watchmen and Man of Steel (both of which I thought were half good/half bad), I just don't know.

But certainly, my doubts are due to Snyder, not Ben Affleck...who might be the best pick so far for Bruce Wayne, if not necessarily Batman.

Co.Inkadink
08-24-2013, 09:51 PM
Bryan Cranston (http://metro.co.uk/2013/08/24/bryan-cranston-confirmed-to-play-lex-luthor-in-batmanman-of-steel-3936111/) confirmed to play Lex Luthor in Batman Man of Steel.

I love Breaking Bad and think Cranston will be a great Luthor.

Bishop
08-24-2013, 10:29 PM
Yes, Cranston is the best casting in a DC movie that I can remember.

Aaron Walther
08-25-2013, 12:38 AM
There is no way Snyder is as bad or worse(!!) than MSJ. That's going too far. Snyder may not be the best director in the World, but he's proven his talent.


Simon Birch is better than anything Zack Snyder wrote and directed, and that movie sucked.

Lord Fejj
08-25-2013, 05:22 AM
The last Batman movie sucked balls! So it can only get better...I hope! Superman is the most boring superhero in the world! All superman movies have sucked balls! I hate superman! And enough of Lex Luthor! doesn't he have any other villains?

Comix Obsession
08-25-2013, 07:30 AM
After Watchmen and Man of Steel (both of which I thought were half good/half bad), I just don't know.

But certainly, my doubts are due to Snyder, not Ben Affleck...who might be the best pick so far for Bruce Wayne, if not necessarily Batman.

Completely agree. Whilst Affleck is a surprising choice, it's Snyder who we can never be sure of. I certainly don't think he's bad, because he's already proven he can be good, but he's also directed 300, one of the worst films ever made, so it's tough to call. Affleck has a huge chance to surprise us, and I'm willing to bet, judging by the last few years, he's going to keep on doing that.

Nitecrawlah2
08-26-2013, 04:06 PM
Cranston as Luthor is a damn good choice. I've no doubt he can rein in the cheesiness exuded by the previous actors and make a worthy villain. I don't quite understand the huge hatred of Snyder though. I thought he did a great job with Watchmen, whose pace was as good it was going to get if someone wanted to try and adapt the book as closely as possible. Given how "unfilmable" the book has been described by producers/directors/writers in decades, it worked. I didn't like 300, that over-the-top testosterone laden lines style I chalk up more to Miller's style of writing/everything. I didn't like MoS as much as Watchmen, but it's definitely the best Superman movie that's been made yet. They definitely took past critiques about "not enough action" a bit overboard in this movie, though I hope it's addressed in the next movie by Bats when he's trying to teach this new kid a lesson.

Moonrider
08-26-2013, 09:36 PM
Most of Snyder's movie make decent money so right now he's the best thing that WB got for a safe bet. Snyder's movies are only as good as the material. Guardians of Ga'Hoole only had a passable scenario for a children's movie, and Sucker Punch was poorly written as one could imagine how a music video director would write. 300 had the advantage of not needing any actual script, Watchmen had decent writers (David 'SNAAAAAAKE!!' Hayter and that other guy), and the worst aspects of Man of Steel was basically Goyer's call. Zach Snyder is a work-for-hire artist with a flashy style, perfectly match DC's New 52 universe which basically made by the same type of comic book creators.

Comix Obsession
08-27-2013, 08:41 AM
Cranston as Luthor is a damn good choice. I've no doubt he can rein in the cheesiness exuded by the previous actors and make a worthy villain. I don't quite understand the huge hatred of Snyder though. I thought he did a great job with Watchmen, whose pace was as good it was going to get if someone wanted to try and adapt the book as closely as possible. Given how "unfilmable" the book has been described by producers/directors/writers in decades, it worked. I didn't like 300, that over-the-top testosterone laden lines style I chalk up more to Miller's style of writing/everything. I didn't like MoS as much as Watchmen, but it's definitely the best Superman movie that's been made yet. They definitely took past critiques about "not enough action" a bit overboard in this movie, though I hope it's addressed in the next movie by Bats when he's trying to teach this new kid a lesson.

Most of Snyder's movie make decent money so right now he's the best thing that WB got for a safe bet. Snyder's movies are only as good as the material. Guardians of Ga'Hoole only had a passable scenario for a children's movie, and Sucker Punch was poorly written as one could imagine how a music video director would write. 300 had the advantage of not needing any actual script, Watchmen had decent writers (David 'SNAAAAAAKE!!' Hayter and that other guy), and the worst aspects of Man of Steel was basically Goyer's call. Zach Snyder is a work-for-hire artist with a flashy style, perfectly match DC's New 52 universe which basically made by the same type of comic book creators.

This is pretty much exactly how I feel about the guy. Miller's writing destroyed 300 (it was AWFUL), it felt like it was made for guys who drink too much beer and think that fighting in slow motion is the coolest thing in the World. God, Sucker Punch, forgot about that. Again, AWFUL. But I really enjoyed Watchmen, it felt spot on, and Man of Steel was too violent, but good fun. So yeah, I agree with the work-for-hire artist summary - it definitely seems evident in his mixed resume.

jeffo46
08-27-2013, 07:40 PM
I haven't seen Man Of Steel yet ( I'm waiting for the DVD ) but, I have to say in defense of Zack Snyder that his version of Watchmen was the best adaptation of any Comic book to film in my opinion. He nailed that series right down to the " T " ! So let's give him a chance and see what he can do with Batman and Superman being together in the same film.

cheeseisgood1918
08-27-2013, 09:21 PM
I haven't seen Man Of Steel yet ( I'm waiting for the DVD ) but, I have to say in defense of Zack Snyder that his version of Watchmen was the best adaptation of any Comic book to film in my opinion. He nailed that series right down to the " T " ! So let's give him a chance and see what he can do with Batman and Superman being together in the same film.

I wouldn't say he nailed it down to a T, but he did as well as anyone was going to with that story. Moore intentionally made the book to be unfilmable, and I always thought it would be. I would say that Snyder did a commendable job all things considered.

As I said before, I'll watch it, and so will everyone else who's posted in this thread. You could have cast the Olsen twins as Batman and Robin, and any movie called Superman Vs. Batman (or anything similar to that) would still make a billion dollars.

If I had to make a prediction, I feel like it will be good, but not great. They'll get my money either way.

Justice41
08-28-2013, 01:45 AM
Snyder did nail Watchmen, The series was boring and so was the movie. Don't see why everyone expected something awesome from a bland product.

Comix Obsession
08-28-2013, 08:05 AM
Snyder did nail Watchmen, The series was boring and so was the movie. Don't see why everyone expected something awesome from a bland product.

:laugh:

Seriously, though, Watchmen was very accurate. I'd go so far as to say he did as good a job as anyone could have done on that movie, right down to the look of the whole thing. The film didn't take anything that wasn't in the comics (except for the more 'realistic' ending), and honestly, everyone was very good in that movie, ESPECIALLY Patrick Wilson, whose portrayal of Dan Dreiberg was so accurate it was like seeing panels come to life.

Any director who can get around Moore's pretentious douchebaggery and still make a decent film deserves a round of applause, in my opinion.

Buckyrig
08-28-2013, 09:54 AM
Watchmen's fight sequences were ridiculous and counter to the whole idea that no one has super powers except Jon. They were punching through walls and support structures, kicking people into the air and punching them mid-air.

cheeseisgood1918
08-28-2013, 11:13 AM
Watchmen's fight sequences were ridiculous and counter to the whole idea that no one has super powers except Jon. They were punching through walls and support structures, kicking people into the air and punching them mid-air.

Yeah, and while I'm sure the way those action scenes were so over the top was pure Snyder, the placement reeked of producers going, "Ok, this thing is a little boring, we need an action beat here, here, and here, and they gotta be at least 5 minutes a piece.

Those scenes were going to be there no matter who the director was. I'm just thankful they didn't give the thing to Michael Bay.

Justice41
08-28-2013, 11:17 AM
How about defying gravity and running up walls.If Snyder had just kept it human then Manhattens powers would be even more awesome. Problem i have with Snyder aside from Dawn of the Dead is his movies all look as if they are filmed in a huge box with digital backgrounds added. Every scene from watchmen looked like a green screen soundstage. Half of Superman looked like boxes with digital BG's. Even downtown Smallville looked like a backlot from the universal studios tour. I still think superman blasting off like that is stupid. It's like the old serial where they used a puff of smoke and the flying superman was animated. If superman really took off like that his wake would suck stuff up behind him. Heck no ones hair was even mussed when he blasts off. Didn't like the new Lois actor. She has a natural smile to her face so it's hard to take anything she does serious when she's always grinning. Well looks like before they've rooted and established the MOS franchise they decided to destroy it with the huge bobble head doll that is Ben Asslick. Can't stand actors who's heads are always bobbling around like Clooney or that aussie guy from Avatar and Clash of the Titans.
Lets hope the next MOS flick isn't a version of Alex Ross' Marvels like the last MOS flick. Don't really want that everyday man POV in a Supes flick.

cheeseisgood1918
08-28-2013, 11:27 AM
Didn't like the new Lois actor. She has a natural smile to her face so it's hard to take anything she does serious when she's always grinning.

We're familiar with your personal war against smiles. :nyah:

Comix Obsession
08-28-2013, 12:48 PM
Watchmen's fight sequences were ridiculous and counter to the whole idea that no one has super powers except Jon. They were punching through walls and support structures, kicking people into the air and punching them mid-air.

That's true, the fight scenes were way over the top. But I would counter that with the 'reality' of Watchmen. All the heroes seem pretty ordinary, Dan Dreiberg most of all, but they must possess something to survive for more than a day fighting crime. That's the thing that bugged me most about reading Watchmen, it was all clever and full of Moore's intellect and general 'look how smart I am' (and he IS smart, just sometimes too smart - it made 'V for Vendetta' an absolute snorefest) moments, but never any explanation as to just HOW these people became heroes. Sure, there were backstories to a degree, but how can they fight so well?

I honestly think Snyder did the best with what he was given, and those fight scenes needed to be 'realistic' but it was inevitable that they'd incorporate some 'wire-fu' into the mix, it's pretty much been sponsoring Hollywood fight scenes since some producer caught wind of it through The Matrix or whatever.

Problem i have with Snyder aside from Dawn of the Dead is his movies all look as if they are filmed in a huge box with digital backgrounds added. Every scene from watchmen looked like a green screen soundstage. Half of Superman looked like boxes with digital BG's. Even downtown Smallville looked like a backlot from the universal studios tour.

I completely forgot/wasn't even aware that he did Dawn of the Dead. Put that down as another positive. But yeah, you are right, his scenes do feel a little soul-less.

I still think superman blasting off like that is stupid. It's like the old serial where they used a puff of smoke and the flying superman was animated. If superman really took off like that his wake would suck stuff up behind him.

I have no idea of the science behind what would happen if a man could fly - but I hated it in The Matrix and I hate it now. It looks cool, but it doesn't feel right, even if it is. It's like ultra-correct anatomy in comics, sometimes just because it is 100% correct and that is how things actually are doesn't mean they 'work'. In reality, sure, but in comics and films, no, reality doesn't always work.

Can't stand actors who's heads are always bobbling around like Clooney or that aussie guy from Avatar and Clash of the Titans.

:laugh: What the Hell are you talking about?! :laugh:

Justice41
08-28-2013, 03:59 PM
Just watch George clooney while he talks in any movie his heads down and every word makes his head wobble around. Ben Affleck has some of that. It's the ole Irish big head thing.

Comix Obsession
08-29-2013, 07:22 AM
I'm gonna be on the look out for that now. It's either going to be hilarious, or you've ruined every George Clooney movie for me. And I love George Clooney! :(

Justice41
08-30-2013, 01:08 AM
I'm gonna be on the look out for that now. It's either going to be hilarious, or you've ruined every George Clooney movie for me. And I love George Clooney! :(

Read this article. :laugh:
http://www.sfgate.com/movies/article/BATMAN-CHILLS-OUT-George-Clooney-can-t-fill-2834605.php

Paul Sanderson
09-25-2013, 09:49 PM
Wonder Woman might be in this?

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/09/25/wonder-woman-casting-call-batman-superman/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Justice41
04-25-2014, 03:41 AM
They have just cast Cyborg. This is turning into DC 52. I see a Darkseid vs JL for the turd flick. Since GL bombed and Flash is on tv they may dredge up other characters for the JL flick. Atom, Shazam, maybe another female.

Buckyrig
04-25-2014, 10:07 AM
Snapper Carr!!! :w00t:

Newt
04-25-2014, 09:05 PM
When are they finally going to give the fans what they want - a Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen/Aqualad buddy movie? Seems like a no-brainer.

Slang Strong
04-25-2014, 11:44 PM
The more characters they throw into this thing the less confident I am that it's going to be any good.

Evan Henry
04-26-2014, 12:15 AM
The more characters they throw into this thing the less confident I am that it's going to be any good.

Did you say that about The Avengers? :p

They're making a Justice League movie. They just won't admit it. I elaborated in depth (http://www.blackshipbooks.com/how-to-build-a-cinematic-universe-without-really-trying/) on Warner's should-be movie/TV plan last month. They probably won't listen to me.

Slang Strong
04-26-2014, 02:32 AM
Did you say that about The Avengers? :p

They're making a Justice League movie. They just won't admit it. I elaborated in depth (http://www.blackshipbooks.com/how-to-build-a-cinematic-universe-without-really-trying/) on Warner's should-be movie/TV plan last month. They probably won't listen to me.

Nope, because it's not the same thing. Marvel planned out their cinematic universe very well, DC hasn't. They're just trying to emulate Marvel's success.

Buckyrig
04-26-2014, 12:36 PM
Ambush Bug

*fingers crossed*

jeffo46
04-30-2014, 09:22 AM
Why don't they just change the name of the fucking film to " The Justice League ? " With all of these cast announcements, that's basically what it's starting to come down to.

Newt
04-30-2014, 09:36 AM
Justice League movie is planned for 2018-ish.

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2014/04/27/warner-bros-details-plans-for-justice-league-movie-exclusive/

Bishop
04-30-2014, 03:27 PM
pBkAi-giu-g

omega sentry
05-04-2014, 08:16 PM
We can just jump ahead in time and beat justice41 to the punch and call it complete garbage.

:rolleyes:

Paul Sanderson
05-14-2014, 01:15 AM
This film is leading into the JL film, which will film back to back with BvS (or whatever they call it).

http://i.imgur.com/3hRU6px.jpg

Justice41
05-14-2014, 04:32 AM
We can just jump ahead in time and beat justice41 to the punch and call it complete garbage.

:rolleyes:

what are ya talking about i like MOS, just not the hand held cam thing. Like I said It took away the Heroic feel to Superman. By having the camera running around it just kinda looked like WWE wrestlers duking it out. It's like I try to tell amateur comics artists ya have to draw big and epic in your pages and panels when it's called for. MOS needed a really epic feel It just didn't have enough. Plus Supes wasn't the tallest person all the time like Chris Reeves or even the wide hipped kid from SR.

Bishop
05-14-2014, 08:28 AM
My biggest question about the suit is, are those Affleck's muscles, or are they going back to the faux muscle costume thing? I hated it back when all the costumes had those fake sculpted foam muscles...

DarkKni9hT
05-14-2014, 11:55 AM
My biggest question about the suit is, are those Affleck's muscles, or are they going back to the faux muscle costume thing? I hated it back when all the costumes had those fake sculpted foam muscles...

That's mostly BA under there. He's been hitting the gym hard to prepare for this role. That being said, there is some padding to accentuate the underlying bulk. Same thing was done in Spiderman flicks, both for MacGuire and Garfield. Not so much "foam muscles", but a layer of "overmuscle" between the actor and the costume to give it some added bulk. Tobey even had a jaw prosthetic under the mask so it deformed more believably. I believe even Henry Cavill was augmented in the MOS suit, even though he was just massive to begin with.


I really like the direction this suit is taking, but that's not what worries me. Can Affleck pull off the role? That's my question. I think he had less to do with the piss poor Daredevil movie than the director/producer/writer combo, but it was still pretty bad...and this was Ben's idol. We'll just have to wait for the film to see if this is treated better.

Justice41
05-14-2014, 12:23 PM
My biggest question about the suit is, are those Affleck's muscles, or are they going back to the faux muscle costume thing? I hated it back when all the costumes had those fake sculpted foam muscles...

They have to do the sculpted muscle suit underneath not to bulk the actors up so much as to counter what the material the costume is made of does. It compresses so the actor could be jacked yet still look smooth. There is no way the vein on Cavills arms would be seen through that material like it is seen.

Bishop
05-14-2014, 01:16 PM
I get the adding of a thin layer to accentuate what is already there, and to give the outfit some form. What I hate is this:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yO7Iv5Gt2cY/US4IpMAcXcI/AAAAAAAADUU/EpkdESkgX2Y/s1600/1990-The-Flash.jpg


http://cdn1.horror-shop.com/out/pictures/generated/product/1/350_600_75/14325.jpg

Buckyrig
05-14-2014, 01:20 PM
Especially when The Flash isn't supposed to be all that muscular.

In fact, someone built for speed wouldn't likely have that kind of bulk in the first place.

Justice41
05-14-2014, 05:24 PM
Blame fanboys for slobbering and rubbing semi chubbies over glistening muscular dudes in comics.

The Dag
05-14-2014, 07:21 PM
it's the best bat suit in all the movies.

Co.Inkadink
05-14-2014, 08:36 PM
pBkAi-giu-gThis is the weirdest crap I've ever seen. What possessed someone to make this?

Paul Sanderson
05-15-2014, 03:21 AM
Flash ain't muscular in his new TV show coming up:

http://i.imgur.com/sx3P01X.jpg

Paul Sanderson
05-15-2014, 03:29 AM
Ben Affleck recently:

https://scontent-b-hkg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/l/t1.0-9/10270576_752199601491911_5588462449759687920_n.jpg

Justice41
05-15-2014, 03:52 AM
Asslick looks like The Hoff holding in his gut.

Co.Inkadink
05-15-2014, 08:25 AM
I really like this new costume. It's the best movie version I've seen yet.

Just for fun though.

7R9JUV9JKio

Duane Korslund
05-15-2014, 09:14 AM
I really like this new costume. It's the best movie version I've seen yet.

Just for fun though.

7R9JUV9JKio

I particularly liked the slow, obvious punches on the rooftop...pretty amusing :)

Paul Sanderson
05-15-2014, 07:12 PM
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1.0-9/10290660_10152384840658257_4546865000118704172_n.j pg

Justice41
05-15-2014, 07:30 PM
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1.0-9/10290660_10152384840658257_4546865000118704172_n.j pg

Just need Pam Anderson and some sand and some slo mo.

Paul Sanderson
05-15-2014, 09:32 PM
Not really:

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/notyetamovie/news/?a=100124

Justice41
05-15-2014, 10:20 PM
heh, you keep spanking it to those asslicking pics there frank.

Paul Sanderson
05-15-2014, 10:22 PM
Don't be a dickhead, Roy.

Justice41
05-15-2014, 10:26 PM
Keep fapping Spanky i mean franky.

Baron Spider
05-15-2014, 10:44 PM
https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/10345805_10152422684886052_1248341576353235777_n.j pg

Justice41
05-15-2014, 10:56 PM
https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/10345805_10152422684886052_1248341576353235777_n.j pg

bwahahahahahahahahahaahaha

The Dag
05-16-2014, 07:19 PM
cool another thread wrecked cause justive41. and people wonder why this forum is so dead all the time.

Justice41
05-21-2014, 11:11 PM
Now the Superman Sequel isn't a Sequel anymore. Batman has top billing and it's basically Part 1 or Justice league New 52. They are gonna cram that DC new 52 crap down everyones throats.
http://www.superherohype.com/news/303023-batman-vs-superman-is-officially-titled-batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice

Evan Henry
05-21-2014, 11:21 PM
I wrote an intentionally corny "Fantasy novel title generator" back in the day that could have given them a better title than "Dawn of Justice."

Ultimate Battle of Shadows. Sword in the Darkness. Clash for Truth.

Justice41
05-22-2014, 12:32 AM
Could be worse They could gone with the tried and true(ly godawful) "The Rise of".

omega sentry
05-22-2014, 01:02 AM
That's not the bat suit is it??? I don't like it....


what are ya talking about i like MOS, just not the hand held cam thing. Like I said It took away the Heroic feel to Superman. By having the camera running around it just kinda looked like WWE wrestlers duking it out. It's like I try to tell amateur comics artists ya have to draw big and epic in your pages and panels when it's called for. MOS needed a really epic feel It just didn't have enough. Plus Supes wasn't the tallest person all the time like Chris Reeves or even the wide hipped kid from SR.

hahah you liked something who new....no wonder it's kind of chilly in vegas even though is summer...

paranoidandroid
05-27-2014, 11:53 AM
Don't blame Snyder for the crappy script by Nolan and Goyer that the studio green lighted.
If the studio can't stop nut hanging on Nolan and actually see he has no idea what a super hero movie is supposed to look like, they may want to call marvel/Disney and ask if they can borrow some of their creative minds.
They used Zod as the villain? Zod? All of the great villains and the best they could muster was an outdated 70's villain from a previous movie named Zod?

Superman vs Batman will be a train wreck.

Justice41
05-27-2014, 12:38 PM
Don't blame Snyder for the crappy script by Nolan and Goyer that the studio green lighted.
If the studio can't stop nut hanging on Nolan and actually see he has no idea what a super hero movie is supposed to look like, they may want to call marvel/Disney and ask if they can borrow some of their creative minds.
They used Zod as the villain? Zod? All of the great villains and the best they could muster was an outdated 70's villain from a previous movie named Zod?

Superman vs Batman will be a train wreck.

Well if you look closely at the Title It's not VS anymore it's V. That's a legal thing. Kinda like a Lawsuit. Batman V(sues) Superman Dawn of Justice (for all those killed in metropolis).

Moonrider
05-28-2014, 12:02 AM
I would have preferred Batman X Superman.

Co.Inkadink
05-28-2014, 06:46 AM
Don't blame Snyder for the crappy script by Nolan and Goyer that the studio green lighted.
If the studio can't stop nut hanging on Nolan and actually see he has no idea what a super hero movie is supposed to look like, they may want to call marvel/Disney and ask if they can borrow some of their creative minds.
They used Zod as the villain? Zod? All of the great villains and the best they could muster was an outdated 70's villain from a previous movie named Zod?

Superman vs Batman will be a train wreck.
Dude hasn't posted in 2 years!

omega sentry
06-01-2014, 02:14 PM
Don't blame Snyder for the crappy script by Nolan and Goyer that the studio green lighted.
If the studio can't stop nut hanging on Nolan and actually see he has no idea what a super hero movie is supposed to look like, they may want to call marvel/Disney and ask if they can borrow some of their creative minds.
They used Zod as the villain? Zod? All of the great villains and the best they could muster was an outdated 70's villain from a previous movie named Zod?

Superman vs Batman will be a train wreck.

To be honest I don't expect anything from this movie...specially now. I am very open when it comes to movies and their mistakes...but this so far has nothing I can defend.

However I disagree with you over them using, or rather reusing Zod.

I would rather they do not ever use metallo, brainiac....or even bizzaro. Superman doesn't have a great villain roster to be honest.

Baron Spider
06-01-2014, 04:35 PM
I'd rather they not use Bizarro. We already saw Superman fight someone like himself in the first movie. Luther creating Metallo or Parasite for Supes to fight would be cool though. They could even say that when Mxyzptlk crossed dimensions when the World Engine was sucked into the phantom zone or something.

Moonrider
06-02-2014, 11:31 PM
I think Brainiac is still a solid villain for Superman to fight. Unlike Doomsday, which was basically just a walking plot device for the whole Death and Return of Superman thing.

Evan Henry
06-03-2014, 12:16 AM
Mxyzptlk would be destroyed as a character. Gritty, Nolan-ized crap.

Buckyrig
06-03-2014, 11:55 AM
Just cast John de Lancie. It would work. :D

Duane Korslund
06-03-2014, 12:01 PM
John de Lancie wouldnt be a good fit for an extra dimensional trixter who continuously harasses the heroes with increasingly absurd repertoire that, although fun, can be dangerous.....

Wait a minute.....didnt he play a character in the James Bond movies?

I take it back...


Edit: that was fun!

Moonrider
06-03-2014, 09:30 PM
For some reason I think Kevin Spacey would have made a much better Mxyzptlk than a Lex Luthor. Just picture him with a bubble head and a skirt, holding a cigar.

John Lithgow would be great as well.

Angel
06-03-2014, 10:41 PM
Yeah....I don't see Mxyzptlk action figures being very popular.

Buckyrig
06-04-2014, 11:22 AM
Yeah....I don't see Mxyzptlk action figures being very popular.

You'd have to coat them in acid for full effect.

omega sentry
06-04-2014, 05:30 PM
I think Brainiac is still a solid villain for Superman to fight. Unlike Doomsday, which was basically just a walking plot device for the whole Death and Return of Superman thing.

The only thing wrong with the brainiac is that he is a pointless flawed robot to fight...he collects history and shrinks people and cities and blows them up...
It has never been appealing nor does it really have a point.

Also the fight would go like the end of the movie. he pretty much fought brainiac as a world engine....

to be honest I don't see how such an Iconic character has such a weak roster of villains to choose from.

Almost every villain that batman has is so amazing...superman has lex, and darkside and doomsday but doomsday is only popular because he kills him.


Every one else is meh....and he fights everyone elses villains. They really need to focus on his villains.

Duane Korslund
06-04-2014, 05:33 PM
Batman has a great rogues gallery because the whole philosophy around Bats is Psychology and Criminology...this makes for far more interesting and deep villains...

Supes doesnt have that....there's no real deep ingrained dark philosophy for Superman...

Evan Henry
06-04-2014, 06:15 PM
The only thing wrong with the brainiac is that he is a pointless flawed robot to fight...he collects history and shrinks people and cities and blows them up...
It has never been appealing nor does it really have a point.

I always thought Brainiac should be revamped as a more "logically" homicidal character than he's typically portrayed; more Skynet than Hal 9000. Say his main goal is to collect all knowledge in the universe (Kryptonian A.I. or something, ditch Colu), but the only way to make sure he has total access to that knowledge is to wipe out planetary systems as he leaves them -- so no new knowledge can be created once he's left.

Basically a cross between Skynet and Wikipedia. :thumbs:

dx
06-04-2014, 08:48 PM
The only thing wrong with the brainiac is that he is a pointless flawed robot to fight...he collects history and shrinks people and cities and blows them up...
It has never been appealing nor does it really have a point.

Also the fight would go like the end of the movie. he pretty much fought brainiac as a world engine....

to be honest I don't see how such an Iconic character has such a weak roster of villains to choose from.

Almost every villain that batman has is so amazing...superman has lex, and darkside and doomsday but doomsday is only popular because he kills him.


Every one else is meh....and he fights everyone elses villains. They really need to focus on his villains.

It's hard to create characters that can fight a god and not destroy the entire planet in the process.

Can fly way faster than sound or close to light speed depending on era and writer. A person's eye can't track that.

Can run/move way faster than sound. Again, cannot track that with a human eye.

Can punch a hole though a mountain and lift a building, Island, whatever into space. Try coming up an average villain that could stand up to that.

oh...super hearing, breath, vision, x-ray vision, frickin laser beams out of his eyes.

He's way to powerful to come up with decent gallery of rouges. Flash, Wonder Woman, Aqua Man, Martian Man Hunter all have similar issues.

Moonrider
06-05-2014, 04:12 AM
It's hard to create characters that can fight a god and not destroy the entire planet in the process.

Can fly way faster than sound or close to light speed depending on era and writer. A person's eye can't track that.

Can run/move way faster than sound. Again, cannot track that with a human eye.

Can punch a hole though a mountain and lift a building, Island, whatever into space. Try coming up an average villain that could stand up to that.

oh...super hearing, breath, vision, x-ray vision, frickin laser beams out of his eyes.


Son Goku can do all these shit and still have interesting villains.
The thing is, DC writers always seem reluctant to pit Superman against opponents much stronger than him. Logically Darkseid should be able to overpower him easily, as well as seasoned fighters like Lobo. Doomsday was powerful, but the monster didn't really have a story besides being a plot device to get Superman killed.

Buckyrig
06-05-2014, 11:50 AM
....there's no real deep ingrained dark philosophy for Superman...

Don't give anyone any ideas. :(

Buckyrig
06-05-2014, 11:56 AM
Son Goku can do all these shit and still have interesting villains.
The thing is, DC writers always seem reluctant to pit Superman against opponents much stronger than him. Logically Darkseid should be able to overpower him easily, as well as seasoned fighters like Lobo. Doomsday was powerful, but the monster didn't really have a story besides being a plot device to get Superman killed.

It's too simple. It's one thing to let the character cut loose once in a while. But the real challenge with someone as powerful as Superman is attacking him where physical strength is irrelevant.

Lex launching a missile into the San Andreas in the first movie.

The first appearance of The Elite where they tried to get him to kill by making him believe Lois had been murdered.

On the other hand, the Doomsday fight where Superman died was one of the most boring issues of a comic I've ever read. (22 splash pages...ugh, fucking 90s)

Justice41
06-05-2014, 12:37 PM
It's too simple. It's one thing to let the character cut loose once in a while. But the real challenge with someone as powerful as Superman is attacking him where physical strength is irrelevant.

Lex launching a missile into the San Andreas in the first movie.

The first appearance of The Elite where they tried to get him to kill by making him believe Lois had been murdered.

On the other hand, the Doomsday fight where Superman died was one of the most boring issues of a comic I've ever read. (22 splash pages...ugh, fucking 90s)

It was planned that way, each issue that led to that issue had less and less panels. I remember watching some special on tv and they talked about how the planning went for that storyline. John Byrne or Jim Lee or Neal Adams would have made those pages great but the artist on that book was meh.

Lovecraft13
06-05-2014, 01:08 PM
I wouldn't mind this upcoming movie if it didn't scream cash-grab. They threw the Superman sequel under the bus to springboard a DC movie universe. How this flick will have a coherent story is anybody's guess.

Moonrider
06-05-2014, 09:51 PM
It's too simple. It's one thing to let the character cut loose once in a while. But the real challenge with someone as powerful as Superman is attacking him where physical strength is irrelevant.


Actually that's exactly what I was talking about. Superman's physical strength will be irrelevant when he's fighting an opponent that is much, much stronger than him. It could mean that the opponent is literally stronger, or that he's fighting a powerful ideal, or even the human condition. And he must, every once in a while, be let to lose. Not simply being let to cut loose, mind you. Although that would be entertaining to see as well.

dx
06-06-2014, 03:22 AM
Actually that's exactly what I was talking about. Superman's physical strength will be irrelevant when he's fighting an opponent that is much, much stronger than him. It could mean that the opponent is literally stronger, or that he's fighting a powerful ideal, or even the human condition. And he must, every once in a while, be let to lose. Not simply being let to cut loose, mind you. Although that would be entertaining to see as well.


Good luck doing that over four titles at twelve issues a month for a character like Superman. He'd be much more interesting with limitations, giving him more challenges to face verses everything having to be epic in order to be a challenge.

Coming up with three or four story lines for a movie is more plausible, but as a comic book character with multiple titles....Sups simply doesn't work, or he would have a stronger rouge gallery and better story lines consistently month to month.

Buckyrig
06-06-2014, 11:58 AM
I don't think it's that Superman doesn't work month-to-month so much as it's difficult to write Superman.

When his books are going to be compared mostly with Batman, it gets worse. Because I believe conversely, Batman is one of the easiest characters to write.

Even though both characters are outside any real person's experienced reality, Batman's head is simply easier to get into.

I mean, does anyone really understand the burden of being capable of helping almost anyone, but having to make choices about when and whom to help? Theoretically, Superman could fly around the world non-stop, protecting people. And even then, he'd still be helping the extreme minority of those he could help. Add into the mix the idea that he's likely aware of every possible person in trouble within a certain radius at all times, and clearly he's triaging.

omega sentry
06-07-2014, 02:22 AM
I have mostly read excuses. Super-man is hard to write??? or are people intimidated and believe being creative with the character will not be accepted?


but even so, like It was said goku has a far more interesting roster than super-man....that is sad.

In a world were ideas are recycled and your typical villains spawn from else were.....you think by now that would have happen to super-man.

Now lets cross to design...the villains in superman lack design as well.

I think people are being lazy with him and don't want to stray from what they are doing....enough is enough they need to cross some lines with superman.

Buckyrig
06-07-2014, 10:58 AM
I have mostly read excuses. Super-man is hard to write??? or are people intimidated and believe being creative with the character will not be accepted?

Superman is hard to write.

For me, proof that the character absolutely can be well written is in the fact that he has been. Just not consistently.

That Elite story I mentioned. All-Star Superman. Superman for All Seasons.


but even so, like It was said goku has a far more interesting roster than super-man....that is sad.

Dragonball is silly shit. It's just people monologuing at each other while beating the shit out of one another. I'm not trashing it, but stuff like that has to be absorbed in a certain mindset, and it's not one that a reader is likely taking with them to a Superman comic.

Moonrider
06-07-2014, 01:00 PM
Dragonball is silly shit. It's just people monologuing at each other while beating the shit out of one another.

Look at the recent Man of Steel. Superman and Zod basically did just that, giving monologues while beating the shit out of each other. To some extent, it was more entertaining and dramatic than watching drunk Superman vs Clark Kent or Superman vs Nuclear Man where they just grunt at each other.

I'm not saying that Superman should go all manga and shit, but having well designed, visually and verbally memorable villains, and increasingly difficult challenges to tackle with would help Superman to be less boring than he is today.

omega sentry
06-07-2014, 04:33 PM
I agree, also not saying that they should monolog while they fight...though it seem to work on man of steel.

regardless of manga the theme goku's villain roster is interesting to the hero both on design and the interaction with the hero. Also mangas are what they are on purpose. The argument is not make superman a manga. The argument was that goku has a better roster for his theme.



I don't think superman is hard to write it's just that everyone has that mind set.

I came up with two villains brain storming last night that would work for superman both psychologically and or physically.

Anways I think no one gets superman at all. You don't need the villain to be stronger or as strong as him to make them a threat to superman.

my ideas aside...just recycling his roster....Mr. mxyzptik.....really???

If he is in his top ten how is that good writing...while is funny as a joke...it's just ehh....why not recycle him. Make a serious character that comes from another dimension, with dimensional powers. Think Q ( star trek ) + MR mxyzptik. kill the side joke and make it serious.

Superman writes itself if you let it happen.

Justice41
06-07-2014, 10:55 PM
the threat should dictate the response, supes solves too many problems by hitting it.the superman unchained story would make for a decent flick

omega sentry
06-08-2014, 04:03 PM
the threat should dictate the response, supes solves too many problems by hitting it.the superman unchained story would make for a decent flick

:eek: sounds like...you are suggesting well.....him solving many problems by hitting it......:har:

But I think handcock beat him to that punch :har:

Evan Henry
06-09-2014, 04:31 AM
handcock

Best typo ever.

Paul Sanderson
06-25-2014, 09:31 PM
I wouldn't mind this upcoming movie if it didn't scream cash-grab. They threw the Superman sequel under the bus to springboard a DC movie universe. How this flick will have a coherent story is anybody's guess.

That's a legitimate concern. We just have to hope that by having an Oscar winning writer onboard they've managed to solve (at least partially) those issues. That could well be wishful thinking, but you never know.

The solo Superman sequel is still coming, I think, or at least that's what reports are indicating.

Angel
06-26-2014, 06:46 AM
http://i.imgur.com/3ul8LJo.jpg

Luke Noonan
06-26-2014, 09:16 AM
Strangely compelling.

Buckyrig
06-26-2014, 12:30 PM
God, I'd almost forgotten about this:

http://i2.pinger.pl/pgr173/f706731f00193b905367d60a/superman-with-pregnant-batman.jpg

:laugh::laugh:

Vassago
06-29-2014, 12:22 PM
Wtf.

Angel
06-30-2014, 06:42 AM
http://i.imgur.com/F051N0E.jpg

Duane Korslund
06-30-2014, 09:40 AM
......

Buckyrig
06-30-2014, 10:09 AM
Well, you could just real The Authority.

Vassago
07-02-2014, 12:45 AM
Exactly what the hell is going on here?

Co.Inkadink
07-03-2014, 01:00 AM
Exactly what the hell is going on here?
I think this thread has become an outlet for closeted homosexuals.

ld-airgrafix
07-03-2014, 04:45 AM
Ben affleck as batman, they didnt pick tom cruise????

Moonrider
07-03-2014, 10:37 AM
Ben affleck as batman, they didnt pick tom cruise????

I'd guess, the same reason they didn't pick Brad Pitt.

Angel
07-03-2014, 03:39 PM
I think this thread has become an outlet for closeted homosexuals.

http://i.imgur.com/qGDIYWD.jpg

Buckyrig
07-03-2014, 04:05 PM
It's creepy how identical they look in that one. :eek:

Vassago
07-03-2014, 08:29 PM
.... that's fucked up. When I see a gay guy, I see a gay guy. "Hey look, a gay guy." Nothing against gay people... but when I look at Superman and Batman.... I don't. .. I don't see that.

Newt
07-03-2014, 08:38 PM
Don't forget Internet Rule 34!

"If it exists, there is porn of it."

Just be glad the stuff posted is so mild. There are bound to be some full Tom of Finland treatments out there.

So...Jason Momoa as Aquaman! Thoughts?

Vassago
07-03-2014, 08:54 PM
Is Aquaman supposed to be in SvsB??

Newt
07-03-2014, 09:02 PM
Yeah, I think it's supposed to introduce everyone DC has even the vaguest notion of putting into Justice League or their own films. Expect to see at least brief appearances from every moderately popular DC character, and Booster Gold too! :w00t:

Bishop
07-03-2014, 09:05 PM
I read that Zsasz is going to be in it as well

Newt
07-03-2014, 09:08 PM
Now that's going to sell a lot of tickets!

Vassago
07-03-2014, 10:30 PM
Shit.. I'll go. Grew up reading all these obscure characters. Well actually. .. I grew up reading Savage Sword of Conan. DC was always a trip because the costumes and characters were so different than Marvel's. Uh.. I'm drunk. My wife is talking to me as I post this.. saying something. I don't know.

Vassago
07-04-2014, 01:24 AM
Whoa-hooo... couple of puffs of weed and I'm all seriouslyness guy... All bull aside though, I'm not really sure why everyone gives MoS such a bad review. I thought it was badass seeing Supes let loose.

cheeseisgood1918
07-04-2014, 10:06 AM
Whoa-hooo... couple of puffs of weed and I'm all seriouslyness guy... All bull aside though, I'm not really sure why everyone gives MoS such a bad review. I thought it was badass seeing Supes let loose.

I agree. That's what pretty much everyone asked for after Superman Returns. A Supes that actually used his powers for something other than stalking Lois. I remember reading so many comments online about how we have the technology now to make a really badass Superman, and they blew it with SR. So we get MoS and people still complain.

Yeah, the story wasn't amazing, but we got to some cool stuff on Krypton, and some great Superman fight scenes. I was happy with it for what it was.

Moonrider
07-04-2014, 11:10 AM
Man of Steel is not perfect, but it's a good start. I didn't really like the Krypton part though. I would have rather see more of Pa Kent in the story. The side plot with his DNA holding the key to the resurrection of Kryptonians didn't really go anywhere either. Well who knows, maybe that plot point will eventually lead to Kandor and Supergirl in the future.

Buckyrig
07-04-2014, 11:35 AM
The word "badass" shouldn't come within 1000 miles of Superman.

Boy Scouts aren't badass. It's a contradiction in terms.

Vassago
07-05-2014, 08:36 AM
If a Boy Scout had fucking heat vision..... He IS BADASS.

Buckyrig
07-05-2014, 10:07 AM
Part of "badass" is an attitude.

I also find I personally hate the term more and more as time goes on. It's been driven into the ground...and then some.

Newt
07-05-2014, 02:40 PM
Superman can't even get a tattoo. :yawn:

Vassago
07-05-2014, 06:05 PM
Sure he could... just use a magic needle and magic induced ink.

And Bucky.. sorry to hear that buddy.

Co.Inkadink
07-26-2014, 09:59 PM
Affleck as Batman (http://batman-news.com/2014/07/24/new-photo-ben-affleck-batman-batman-v-superman-dawn-justice/)
http://i2.wp.com/batman-news.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/BenAffleckBatmanHQ.jpg?w=800

Co.Inkadink
07-26-2014, 10:02 PM
BLACK Batman Cape And Cowl Revealed (http://moviepilot.com/posts/2014/07/24/black-batman-cape-and-cowl-revealed-at-sdcc-2014-2131110?lt_source=external,manual,manual#!bnmwjP)

Co.Inkadink
07-26-2014, 10:04 PM
http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/JasonLarouse/2014-07-26_182711_1406415444795.jpg
http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/JasonLarouse/2014-07-26_182545_1406415557416.jpg
http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/JasonLarouse/2014-07-26_182610_1406415607743.jpg

Justice41
07-27-2014, 01:53 AM
Cool… Post the WonderWoman pic if ya have it.

Bishop
07-27-2014, 09:08 AM
I'm sure this won't be up for long...

gn4fBnWy7Ys

cheeseisgood1918
07-27-2014, 12:41 PM
I'm sure this won't be up for long...

gn4fBnWy7Ys

Warner already found it.

Bishop
07-27-2014, 01:40 PM
Too bad. It was pretty cool.

Co.Inkadink
11-01-2014, 08:17 PM
It all ends like this
http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2013-11/enhanced/webdr06/7/12/anigif_enhanced-buzz-5911-1383846785-30.gif

omega sentry
11-14-2014, 03:43 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEWmKPj99OU

For every one taken out people are putting two more in...lol :whistlin:

I like how this guy geeks out as superman pops in to the bat signal.

dx
11-15-2014, 08:55 PM
I predict a train wreck for DC/WB.

The only thing they have done well on is Batman Begins and the Dark Knight. Those two movies are looking more and more like flukes when you look at DC's overall output in film.

Now their plan is to rush into a series of films in taking a sequel to a bad "Man of Steel" film and turn it into a .... I don't know what to call it... a set up to all other future DC films?

Marvel took ten years in planning and organizing their phase 1, and they are spending about 6 years on phase two, leading into their 3rd phase.

DC is trying to do what Marvel has done in less than 2 years.

I just see epic failure.

Buckyrig
11-16-2014, 12:10 PM
Did Marvel really plan it out?

I always got the impression that Iron Man was a shocking success, and that that led to all the activity.

Seems like DC is just trying the same thing jumping off of Nolan's Batman movies.

(Which is not to say that the DC movies don't look like bad ideas.)

Co.Inkadink
11-16-2014, 12:20 PM
Did Marvel really plan it out?

I always got the impression that Iron Man was a shocking success, and that that led to all the activity.
Absolutely! The end credits scene of Iron Man Nick Fury says "I'd like to talk to you about the Avengers initiative. And the cross pollenation in every Marvel movie after leading into the next building the universe.

Buckyrig
11-16-2014, 12:31 PM
And that's why they're making Ant Man and Black Panther? :sure:

Clearly they wanted to do something, but I think Iron Man opened it up in ways they didn't expect. Hell, look at the Hulk; three actors in three movies. I don't think it was the brilliant symphony people are treating it as in retrospect. Seems as clumsy and overly optimistic as what DC is doing . . . we just can look back and see that it worked out.

Co.Inkadink
11-16-2014, 12:51 PM
And that's why they're making Ant Man and Black Panther? :sure:

Clearly they wanted to do something, but I think Iron Man opened it up in ways they didn't expect. Hell, look at the Hulk; three actors in three movies. I don't think it was the brilliant symphony people are treating it as in retrospect. Seems as clumsy and overly optimistic as what DC is doing . . . we just can look back and see that it worked out.

Hulk was not canon or part of the Avengers, the Incredible Hulk was but Edward Norton wanted too much control. Terrence Howard was not called back for IM2 because he was a Diva. The plan was in place with the IM, Cap, Hulk and Thor movies. Tony Stark was in the end credit scene of Incredible Hulk. It was carefully planned.

omega sentry
11-16-2014, 01:10 PM
I don't think they planned anything, they accidentally bump their way to it, just teasing as what could possibly be....hopping each fallow up would not floop....but the hulk flooped...till avengers.


I believe the WB doesn't want to take that road anymore because they indeed have been trying to get that momentum but have been failing....

We got a batman trilogy to which neither director nor actor wanted to fallow up to a Justice.

We got the green lantern fail, which gives them a good excuse to use John rather than Hal. You know they were going to use Hal if it was a hit with that movies Sinestro as one of the main baddies. The actor that played Sinestro was perfect.

We got wonder-woman movie red light....

we got a shazam movie coming up rather than flash??? Fail....

They are leading up to it but I believe they also don't know how long this super hero craze is going to last. It's been 10 years how much more will people keep geeking out till they want something else.

So their best bet right now is to do superman/batman because the team up has been a great success in the comics and cartoons.

Buckyrig
11-16-2014, 01:20 PM
If Iron Man, Thor, and Captain America had tanked, Avengers would never have happened, teasers or no.

And I wouldn't be too sure that if Iron Man were received as luke-warmly as Thor, the Avengers movie would have been a lock. Projects get canceled all the time.

And if we're being honest, Marvel is batting below .500.

Iron Man, Avengers, Winter Soldier, and Guardians were the solid movies. Everything else has been mediocre or worse.

Co.Inkadink
11-16-2014, 01:49 PM
I don't think they planned anything, they accidentally bump their way to it, just teasing as what could possibly be....hopping each fallow up would not floop....but the hulk flooped...till avengers.
every-marvel-end-credit-scene (http://moviepilot.com/posts/2014/08/04/every-marvel-end-credit-scene-including-guardians-of-the-galaxy-spoilers-are-they-still-fun-2158606?lt_source=external,manual)
I hope you're kidding. They seemed to have planned all of it, very carefully.


If Iron Man, Thor, and Captain America had tanked, Avengers would never have happened, teasers or no.

And I wouldn't be too sure that if Iron Man were received as luke-warmly as Thor, the Avengers movie would have been a lock. Projects get canceled all the time.

And if we're being honest, Marvel is batting below .500.

Iron Man, Avengers, Winter Soldier, and Guardians were the solid movies. Everything else has been mediocre or worse.We're not talking about whether they would or would not have been successful what might've happened. Marvel was planning on making a shared big universe the moment Nick Fury walked onscreen. Of course if the movies sucked it would all be moot but they planned for success.

Buckyrig
11-16-2014, 01:56 PM
So, how's it different from what DC is doing?

I mean, does anyone believe that DC hasn't always wanted to make a Justice League movie?

Co.Inkadink
11-16-2014, 02:26 PM
So, how's it different from what DC is doing?

I mean, does anyone believe that DC hasn't always wanted to make a Justice League movie?I think they have but they aren't doing it as smart as Marvel did. Cramming a bunch of characters into the Man of Steel sequel is not as smart as having each character have their own movie and having the secondary characters appear in cameos. Then when Avengers came out you didn't have to have origins for Thor, Iron Man, Hulk and Cap and could concentrate on the mission and plot better and the secondary characters. They hit the ground running, Nick Fury and Shield Established, Loki Established, Thor, Iron Man, Hulk and Cap Established, and it wasn't clunky.

The biggest hurdle for Superman V Batman is having Wonder Woman, Aquaman and I hear Carrie Kelley Robin in this movie as well as Lex Luthor and who knows what else? This is not Bale/Nolan Batman and we get his origin again and all these other characters may muddle up the story.

Man of Steel wasn't big on story and that gives me pause for this one too. Look I'm hoping this is good as Avengers and that it leads to great Justice League movies and spin-offs but it's a big gamble the way their doing it.

They didn't plan Man of Steel to begin the live action DC universe and it's obvious. Marvel has Agents of Shield and the upcoming Agent Carter show and I think the Netflix Marvel shows tie in with their universe. DC has Man of Steel a Superman V Batman movie in 2 years and Flash and Arrow on TV that aren't connected to the movie versions and a Movie Flash coming later. The DC stuff seems clunky.

dx
11-16-2014, 09:25 PM
Omega - Buckyrig

Marvel originally signed Samuel L. Jackson to a 10 or 11 picture deal, and Robert Downey Jr. to a 7 picture deal. Both deals entailed the actors as both feature actors and small appearances/Cameos. This was required for the cross-pollination. Towards the end of Phase one, they started planning on phase two which required signing multiple actors to multi-appearance contracts that include Marvel Agents of Shield. Phase three is dedicated to the out-layer characters, Ant-Man, Black Panther and so forth.

DC/WB is reacting rather than being proactive and planning ahead.

Superman Returns was a pseudo sequel to Superman II (Failed), The Batman Trilogy never started out as a Trilogy and we received a rushed and piss poor 3rd installment, and the the movie that was Green Lantern had absolutely no tie-ins. They were hoping to have a successful film and a tie in to the relaunch of the Superman franchise but that went sideways because how crappy the Lantern film was.

Marvel's only real poor production is the Second Hulk (Which was Marvel's 1st Hulk) and Iron Man III, which they addressed in Thor's or Captain America's bonus extras on the Blue ray with their short films.

The rest, whether you like them or not, were well produced and successful as far as the industry views them.

Co.Inkadink
11-16-2014, 11:14 PM
The Batman Trilogy never started out as a Trilogy and we received a rushed and piss poor 3rd installment.

Oh man I wish I could unsee that one.