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CHWolf
11-27-2012, 01:13 AM
Yuck.

YUCK, YUCK, YUCK (http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/11/27/joseph-gordon-levitt-to-play-batman-in-justice-league).

No.

Evan Henry
11-27-2012, 01:24 AM
Die, good movies, DIE! DIE!

Comix Obsession
11-27-2012, 06:50 AM
An IGN article, that makes it pure speculation. I know they aren't the source, but it's on IGN, and IGN, whilst being the site I go to for game news, are honestly pretty speculative, to the point of farce.

This isn't bad news, though, even if it is true, because Gordon-Levitt is awesome. But what I do see here is this, 'Joseph Gordon-Levitt will play a character from DC in the future'. It's more than likely he'll be playing Nightwing than anything, that would make a lot more sense, even though it's pretty obvious that Nolan put the whole 'Robin' thing in as little more than a 'huh' moment for the fans.

Newt
11-27-2012, 02:43 PM
Actually, Levitt will be playing BatMite. Batman will be played by CGI Jack Palance.

CHWolf
11-27-2012, 03:08 PM
There's at least one major problem with JGL in any future pairing with any other DC super-hero:

You don't get Bruce Wayne Batman's personality clash with others.


Yes, it's speculative, but let's say dreamy "AWESOME ACTOR" JGL is Bats in a Justice League flick.

Okay, so Superman is the boyscout, WW is the warrior, Batman is the - no, wait. Batman isn't the same. We have an entirely new dynamic unless they're just going to cookie-cutter JGL into the Christian Bale role. Which would make it even more ridiculous...


I don't know. I don't see much hope for these films anyway, but if they're going to go with perpetual second banana Levitt for a character with the weight of Batsy, AND make him an entirely different character from Bruce and Dick and so on...

That's pretty much the same, to me, as having Supe's kid from Superman Returns put on a cape and outside underpants for the Justice League outing.


It's just a big "Huh?!"

Bishop
11-27-2012, 05:47 PM
Depends on whether Warner/DC decide to give a crap about the fans of the comics. The bulk of their movie-watching audience are primarily aware of the movie universe, and that it is based on a comic book. They don't know the details of the comics, nor do they care to. To these people the transition of JGL into the role will make sense, because it ties to the last Batman movie they saw.

CHWolf
11-27-2012, 07:58 PM
That bastard, majority.

Troy Wall
11-27-2012, 08:05 PM
I think if it happens JGL will be playing Bruce Wayne. I think DC is so clueless with their movies that they think this WON'T confuse the movie-going majority who will remember him as John Blake. They know JGL is popular and audiences like him, and they also know Bruce Wayne is their best bet as Batman. So, combine the two and voila: disaster.

Wolf, Blake is a pretty similar character to Bruce, no? Don't get me wrong, I'm way against this...but Blake was a cynical orphan who lost his parents as a child. The character could be played against Superman and co. in terms of personality clashes.

Jason Powell
11-27-2012, 10:13 PM
Do you think it is possible they might be doing a sort of "Blake takes over Bruce's role as Batman until Bruce returns"... Much like the comics have done a million times over?

-Jason

CHWolf
11-27-2012, 11:08 PM
Troy - Yeah, I just can't see JGL (out of costume) believably saying things like "I need to get all the information I can on the rest of the League. All of them. They're too powerful to be allowed to go unchecked."

Or anything like that.

Ever.


And that's what I think Bats brings to the whole mix in terms of personality. That "Shut up, doofus." to the face of Demigods.


Blake, Bruce, Brake, Bluce, whatever the character name I just can't see him contributing anything of value to a "team film".



His reps are now denying the whole thing, which is a relief... though of course that happens either way.

Comix Obsession
11-28-2012, 12:30 AM
I don't see the problem, in all honesty. DC are still proving themselves in medium of film, with only the Batman films a huge success. It isn't surprising they are trying to reprise some of the glory by taking a character they can use feasibly (and of course, in the real World, a young actor who would likely jump at the opportunity) to continue the story in a direction that allows the appearance of a 'Batman-like' character in their major movie attempt without disappointing fans.

Besides, isn't Nightwing a huge hit with fans? I don't know anything about the character except that he exists, and is a likely direction for JGL. I'd honestly be a lot more confused about Batman turning up in the Justice League movie - he's retired, right? I mean, there was never any mention of him teaming up with a group of superheroes in the films, so I'm guessing he's out? This JGL thing actually makes a lot more sense.

CHWolf
11-28-2012, 01:00 AM
Bats' ultimate end is easily solved with "The world needs you again!" - "How did you find me?" - "Super-everything, duh. I'm Superman."

Troy Wall
11-28-2012, 01:18 AM
In the end, I really think this all just a buncha BS. In this reboot happy world we live in, I'm more than sure the powers that be are favoring a rebooted Batman not only for a League movie, but also a new set of Bat movies. The Nolan movies made a ka-zillion bucks and made WB very, very happy...but that's over now and I very much doubt the Dark Knight trilogy will figure into a shared DC movie-verse...IF it is ever actually established. That's a big IF. I'll believe it when I see it.

I betcha when and if we ever see a League movie, Green Lantern and Batman will be played by different actors than Reynolds and JGL (or anyone from the Nolan continuity). The guy playing Superman in Snyder's movie may stick around for it, but really that's going to depend on whether or not Man of Steel garners any excitement for DC movies (outside of Batman flicks).

Troy Wall
11-28-2012, 01:19 AM
Oh, and I vote Chris Evans for the Flash because he now plays in all comic book movies (Losers, Captain America movies, Avengers movies, Fantastic Four movies...)

CHWolf
11-28-2012, 01:29 AM
Jason Statham for Martian Manhunter.

Eliseu Gouveia
11-28-2012, 01:42 AM
How tall is JGL?

As Looper showed, we know he can morph into any shape needed but height is the one thing I can-´t see him pulling off easily.

Duane Korslund
11-28-2012, 10:53 AM
how hilarious would it be just to take the cast of the Avengers and move them over to JL!

Scarlet Johanson as WW, Chris Hemsworth as....I dunno...Hawkman..not much of a costume change...RDJ as Green Lantern...Chris Evans as Flash....Jeremy Renner could be batman...and Samuel Jackson could be Superman...why not?

Buckyrig
11-28-2012, 11:50 AM
He's playing Snapper Carr.

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/59999 (http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-502303_162-20121250.html)

Moonrider
11-30-2012, 04:29 AM
I'm imagining a scene where Clark Kent and Hal Jordan walked in a bar and found Bruce Wayne there, and just as soon as they introduce themselves Bruce would say "Go fuck yourselves." and continue spinning a totem.

Co.Inkadink
11-30-2012, 05:15 AM
I think DC is kicking themselves since Avengers came out. Wondering why they gave Nolan so much power over one of their cornerstone characters to destroy any chance of a nice transition into the Justice League movie. A reboot is critical and sadly too soon. The best way to do it is to make Batman in JL the most awesome human being on Earth and never show him out of costume then reboot him after the movie. It's tricky because Marvel tied the Avengers together nicely and made all the origins separately and got down to bizniss right away in the team flick. DC has to do the movie first with snakey crap Superman costume maybe and do all the origins after. Flash Wonder Woman and the rest really need good movies as well and theyll come after which is a gamble.

I want to see a good JL movie but it seems impossible a bunch of characters I recognize but don't know in a big epic "it's gotta be" and hoping forbackstory to come later.

Biofungus
11-30-2012, 12:07 PM
Batman in a JL movie = Wolverine in an X-men movie.

Co.Inkadink
11-30-2012, 05:32 PM
Batman in a JL movie = Wolverine in an X-men movie.

True Dat.

CHWolf
11-30-2012, 07:31 PM
The Man of Steel film, if it features Kryptonite (which I'm sure it does), should have an after-credits scene where a glowing green chunk of the stone is lying amid whatever wreckage is no doubt left by the end of the film. Cue an Italian loafer walking up to the stone, a hand picking it up, a dashing young actor with black hair, black suit, playboy looks studying it.

Behind him, a group of reporters approach as he pockets the gem.

"Mr. Wayne, Mr. Wayne, you've come back from the dead twice now, are you sure you're ready to start investing in the rebuilding of Metropolis?"




I mean, fuck, isn't Bruce just assumed to be dead with no evidence at the end of TDKR? In the comic world that would be a huge red flag that the character isn't staying dead for more than a year... and that's if the character is actually supposed to be dead, which Nolan's Batsy isn't. Durf durf.



I guess what I'm getting at is that there's ALWAYS a way out, ALWAYS options... if they don't come up with something clever or if they don't take one of those "outs" at all, they're just being lazy.

Sure, James Bond movies seem to "reboot" with the new actors, but they don't routinely go back and show his origin. They don't feel the need to show Bond in training as a young agent with every reinvention of the franchise.

Comic films need to be big boys and take some risks like that without relying on rehashing the origin every two or three films.

Biofungus
12-01-2012, 06:07 AM
The problem with the origin thing is, it almost always seems to tie directly into the "present day" plot. Some dick the hero upstaged while training, or something like that, has come back for revenge, yatta yatta yatta.

Troy Wall
12-02-2012, 10:36 PM
The Man of Steel film, if it features Kryptonite (which I'm sure it does), should have an after-credits scene where a glowing green chunk of the stone is lying amid whatever wreckage is no doubt left by the end of the film. Cue an Italian loafer walking up to the stone, a hand picking it up, a dashing young actor with black hair, black suit, playboy looks studying it.

Behind him, a group of reporters approach as he pockets the gem.

"Mr. Wayne, Mr. Wayne, you've come back from the dead twice now, are you sure you're ready to start investing in the rebuilding of Metropolis?"




I mean, fuck, isn't Bruce just assumed to be dead with no evidence at the end of TDKR? In the comic world that would be a huge red flag that the character isn't staying dead for more than a year... and that's if the character is actually supposed to be dead, which Nolan's Batsy isn't. Durf durf.



I guess what I'm getting at is that there's ALWAYS a way out, ALWAYS options... if they don't come up with something clever or if they don't take one of those "outs" at all, they're just being lazy.

Sure, James Bond movies seem to "reboot" with the new actors, but they don't routinely go back and show his origin. They don't feel the need to show Bond in training as a young agent with every reinvention of the franchise.

Comic films need to be big boys and take some risks like that without relying on rehashing the origin every two or three films.

I just don't think it would work. Batman didn't want anything to do with...well, being Batman in Nolan's third movie. He had been hiding out in his house for 8 years since the Joker crimes content with the relative peace in Gotham. Although he did appear somewhat excited to be suiting up again to stop Bane, he also couldn't wait to put it behind him for good and go lay up in Europe with a hot chick. It was just too different of an interpretation for me to believe this particular Batman would come back and join the League.

CHWolf
12-02-2012, 11:04 PM
I don't know how you can actually follow that line of reasoning when every film franchise has "the final one" only to see the hero begrudgingly forced back into action years later.

It pays too much respect to Nolan, something a viewer can do of course, but something a studio exec is not likely to.

"Batman didn't want to be Batman" is easily erased by "And yet he's forced to be Batman again".

After all, it already happened. If Nolan himself can play the "former hero shoved back into action" card, then the next guy can do it and still be in line with the actual continuity of the trilogy.

And who's to say it couldn't be he's not up for helping the League stop (insert cliché global space-cloud threat) until Supes, wholly unexpected, verbally bitchslaps him for pissing off and shacking up with a groupie.

:V

Co.Inkadink
12-02-2012, 11:06 PM
I just don't think it would work. Batman didn't want anything to do with...well, being Batman in Nolan's third movie. He had been hiding out in his house for 8 years since the Joker crimes content with the relative peace in Gotham. Although he did appear somewhat excited to be suiting up again to stop Bane, he also couldn't wait to put it behind him for good and go lay up in Europe with a hot chick. It was just too different of an interpretation for me to believe this particular Batman would come back and join the League.

Let's pretend Dark Knight Rises never happened. It's Halle Berry's Catwoman to me. Batman needs a reboot it's inevitable. I don't think DC will allow JLG to be John Blake Batman or Bruce Wayne. He's a good actor but he's wrong for it, Nightwing maybe but not Batman.

Like I said before because the JL movie will be out before the next Batman have Batman masked the whole time and reboot it afterward with the new actor. Focus on the other characters who will desperately need exposition. I mean Hey Isn't this new Batman in the JL movie Bruce Wayne whose parents were murdered and he became a Vigilante Superhero and has awesome gadgets so he can play with the Super powered folk? The audience will know that much, it'll be tough to explain Flash, Wonder Woman etc and make them all fit together in one movie without the solo movies.

I'm saying the Avengers did it right, it's going to bog down the story if we have to tell origins of individual Heroes and the origin and crisis that brings them together in one movie. We'll have to have little vignettes of WW, Flash and whoever else putting them in the movie. If Man of Steel does well "which I'm skeptical of after that trailer" he can easily be explained to the audience. Green Lantern will still linger in peoples minds "and their nostrils". Some audiences will remember Wonder Woman from the 70s and Flash from the 90s Justice League cartoons and Smallville, but depending on who they use it will be hard to get them all in the same room and have us care about them. It may look like a big Cosplay event with no emotional investment.

Co.Inkadink
12-02-2012, 11:14 PM
I don't know how you can actually follow that line of reasoning when every film franchise has "the final one" only to see the hero begrudgingly forced back into action years later.

It pays too much respect to Nolan, something a viewer can do of course, but something a studio exec is not luckly to.

"Batman didn't want to be Batman" is easily erased by "He's forced to be Batman again".

If Nolan would've made a Batman movie instead of HIS Batman movie we could do that. Instead of Batman being a 40 yr old partially crippled, reluctant quitter Batman for 8 yrs, he could have been fighting as Batman for those 8 yrs off camera and the next director could go back and tell Batman stories in that 8 yr period. They could make Batman movies or JL movies and not have to worry about continuity.

I'll say I don't want Christian Bale Batman back, the horrible voice the costume got worse and worse and his character is ruined in my opinion. He needs a reboot. If they continue with a 40 yr old Bale Batman with messed up leg and pity party quitter attitude it'll suck.

CHWolf
12-02-2012, 11:16 PM
I wouldn't mind if they looked to Watchmen (!) for indicators on how to handle explaining the characters.

But ONLY in that respect. :D

In other words, we see how Dr. Manhattan is created, but it's late in the film. We know who's related to who, and where it all started, but for all intents and purposes they don't really tell us where any of these whackjobs came from.


They don't even need to tell us a lick about Flash's origin. Just "This is the Flash, the fastest man alive!" and he whizzes about.



Co.Inkadink - I keep saying this. There's no logic or history behind "They can't" when it comes to furthering a franchise. They could make "The Dark Knight Rises Again", a full-fledged fourth film in the Nolanverse, recast everyone, and say "He was in Europe, UNTIL EUROPE EXPLODED!!" and it'd be all well and good as far as they're concerned.

In summary - What we think should or shouldn't be possible does not determine what's possible.

For every problem, there is a solution. Doesn't matter if we like the solution or not.


I'm reminded of Deadpool's death in the first Wolverine film. It was entirely undone at the last possible minute by a dashed together after-the-credits clip!

A five minute montage could undo the ending of TDKR in a believable, if infutiating, way.

Moonrider
12-04-2012, 10:13 AM
Rise of The Guardians is a good example of a team-up movie that is not The Avengers. Kids already knew the basis of these characters' myths even though they haven't been introduced with that universe's Santa, Jack Frost, Sandman, Easter Bunny, and Tooth Fairy. They can do the same with Justice League. These characters don't need long and winded introductions, just go with the story already.

Co.Inkadink
12-04-2012, 05:30 PM
Co.Inkadink - I keep saying this. There's no logic or history behind "They can't" when it comes to furthering a franchise. They could make "The Dark Knight Rises Again", a full-fledged fourth film in the Nolanverse, recast everyone, and say "He was in Europe, UNTIL EUROPE EXPLODED!!" and it'd be all well and good as far as they're concerned.

In summary - What we think should or shouldn't be possible does not determine what's possible.

For every problem, there is a solution. Doesn't matter if we like the solution or not.


I'm reminded of Deadpool's death in the first Wolverine film. It was entirely undone at the last possible minute by a dashed together after-the-credits clip!

A five minute montage could undo the ending of TDKR in a believable, if infutiating, way.Oh I understand that they can do whatever they want, I just know that if they cobble together some crappy storyline and origins and characters into a Justice League movie it will bomb. People will look at the Avengers and talk about how Marvel did it better.

Comix Obsession
12-05-2012, 12:27 PM
Rise of The Guardians is a good example of a team-up movie that is not The Avengers. Kids already knew the basis of these characters' myths even though they haven't been introduced with that universe's Santa, Jack Frost, Sandman, Easter Bunny, and Tooth Fairy. They can do the same with Justice League. These characters don't need long and winded introductions, just go with the story already.

Rise of The Guardians is awesome. It's the perfect example of a great all-round movie. Perfect for kids and adults - great well-rounded characters, a bit of darkness with a lot of laughs, and a satisfying ending to keep you wanting more. It's a great argument for going the animated route on something. DC should think about it.

Of course it won't happen, but it would be pretty fun!

Co.Inkadink
12-05-2012, 04:38 PM
Rise of The Guardians is a good example of a team-up movie that is not The Avengers. Kids already knew the basis of these characters' myths even though they haven't been introduced with that universe's Santa, Jack Frost, Sandman, Easter Bunny, and Tooth Fairy. They can do the same with Justice League. These characters don't need long and winded introductions, just go with the story already.
I hear what you're saying and I hope you're right. Of course it could work the right Story, Director and vision, I just have no hope for this movie. Green Lantern stunk, Dark Knight Rises stunk so bad it made me dislike Dark Knight because of the mess it set up, Man Of Steel looks like a directors vision getting in the way of the story and Character AGAIN.
Some people Know Wonder Woman and Flash etc but will they be recognizable? Will it make sense? If they had made Avengers with no prequels and just put Iron Man, Hulk, Thor and Captain America together and gave them small origin vignettes would it have worked? I don't know but I don't think so. A lot of what worked in Avengers worked because we already knew those characters. Most people had seen a few of the other movies going in.
Like I said I hope they can pull it off, I like the Justice League more than the Avengers as a Super Team but this has too many hurdles going in.

Duane Korslund
12-05-2012, 04:56 PM
they will have to treat the "lesser" heroes in JL more like Hawkeye and Black Widow, no real back story just little pieces here or there. Of course, it doesnt help that none of the DC movies have featured any of the other JLA characters. So if they want to fit in little snippets of martian manhunter, wonder woman and flash they'll have to shoot out another batman, green lantern, and do something special for this man of steel coming up, featuring our b-listers. Not that wonder woman or flash are really b-listers...but they probably wont translate into their own individual movies...(despite our hopes joss whedon would tackle wonder woman)

Co.Inkadink
12-05-2012, 05:47 PM
they will have to treat the "lesser" heroes in JL more like Hawkeye and Black Widow, no real back story just little pieces here or there. Of course, it doesnt help that none of the DC movies have featured any of the other JLA characters. So if they want to fit in little snippets of martian manhunter, wonder woman and flash they'll have to shoot out another batman, green lantern, and do something special for this man of steel coming up, featuring our b-listers. Not that wonder woman or flash are really b-listers...but they probably wont translate into their own individual movies...(despite our hopes joss whedon would tackle wonder woman)
And that's the problem. We have no DC universe in the movies, Nolan didn't want a shared universe in "HIS" Batman movies. I'm kind of glad he didn't now. Green Lantern had nothing they may shoehorn one or two into Man of Steel but I doubt it. One complaint I heard about Iron Man 2, Captain America, and Thor was that they were trying too hard to set up The Avengers that those movies didn't stand alone like Iron Man did. I agree but I still enjoyed them.
Wonder Woman is a complex character and she will be very hard to pull off in a Justice League movie with no backstory. She's the Thor of DC, Superman the alien fitting in with Batman who we last saw in Dark Knight Rises didn't exist in a universe with aliens and gods. The Flash needs his origin done right, not as a flash back in a Bigger movie. They may go with fewer characters instead of 7 which will stink or give everyone the obligatory vignette. Then you have to have the huge threat that brings them all together and Villain who has to have backstory and motivation, it's a lot to juggle.
I would've never thought Avengers could do it, and I don't think they could have if they hadn't had the the lead in movies.

We're having a similar discussion about X-men Days of Future Past in another thread and the argument is that Bryan Singer won't be able to bring the magic back to X-men. I think the major advantage Singer has with X-men is that he has so much set up already, 5 movies with established characters and actors who are known in the roles. Really if he has a good script and can pull off some good special effects he has it in the bag, just let the actors do their thing.

This movie has so many unknown quantities to it. Will Henry Cavill be a good Superman? Christian Bale said he won't be Batman again without Nolan and who wants him to? Will audiences accept another Batman? Ryan Reynolds didn't dazzle anyone as G.L. and then there is Wonder Woman and Flash and possibly 2 or 3 other Big Characters who have to embody those characters be believable in relation to all the other characters who haven't been on the big screen or small screen in live action in decades.

I guess I'll stop my complaining now, the only thing that would've made me optimistic, 2 things really is if The Man of Steel stuff had been good and if DKR weren't such a crap fest.

Duane Korslund
12-05-2012, 06:07 PM
In a nutshell....we're not ready for a justice league movie that will be done properly...there's too much groundwork to be laid.

I agree...WW needs her own movie...hell even Flash would be cool in his own movie (if done right) but then I'm biased...I always liked Flash...I'm just saying at present if DC were to set it up properly we wouldnt see a JLA movie for another 10 years...they could get away with it if they cut a few corners like the Hawkeye and Black Widow scenario...and even then it may be fated to a fail...

Evan Henry
12-07-2012, 03:26 AM
Batman who we last saw in Dark Knight Rises didn't exist in a universe with aliens and gods.Well, no one in these sorts of movies exist in universes with aliens and gods either... until the aliens and the gods show up. I mean, is it really that much of a leap to go from a grown man in a kevlar bat suit with the voice of an unpaved driveway fending off clown-faced serial killers, to any of the more ridiculous things in DC Comics? Let's be honest -- it is infinitely more likely that intelligent aliens will descend on planet Earth tomorrow than it is that a billionaire industrialist with a flying rodent fetish will inexplicably survive a nuclear explosion at ground Zero. (And I still say that anyone who actually took that ending literally hasn't thought it through properly, but that's beside the point.)

If Batman Forever can be construed as a sequel to the Keaton movies, then there is no feat of continuity that Warner is not capable of.

The main issue with doing a Justice League movie properly is not establishing the origins of the characters beforehand. Only geeks care about stuff like that, and that is not why Marvel did the Iron Man, Cap, and Thor movies before Avengers (I realize no one else noticed this, but Avengers would have been a great movie regardless of whether or not any of those movies had been made) -- they did it to build hype. Five years ago, no one outside the nerdosphere knew what a Marvel was. Now they're one of the most popular film studios in existence. Warner/DC does not have the same problem; Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman have instant public recognition in a way that none of the Avengers except Hulk (and arguably Captain America) did...

So, I'm not smart enough to say what the main issue is, but whatever it is, it's not that.

As far as Man of Steel goes, I haven't seen enough of it to form an opinion yet. I have no problem calling crap when I see it, but one mid-production trailer and a couple posters isn't enough to judge yet, IMO. Either way, count on it getting renamed to incorporate the word SUPERMAN into the title later this month or next, and at least one Nick Fury-style cameo from another DC character who isn't Amanda Waller.

EDIT: Also, I know this sounds like obnoxious nitpicking, but speaking of ''DC'' vis a vis film adaptations of their properties really isn't accurate. DC is and always has been a wholly owned subsidiary of Warner that has pretty much been allowed to do its own thing, but that relationship is very quickly changing in a way that the Marvel/Disney relationship hasn't yet. It might be a subtle thing, but it makes a huge difference when talking about how the studio execs are going to deal with these characters.

EDIT REDUX: And anyone who says that a bad movie will automatically result in box office failure has obviously never seen 300.

Co.Inkadink
12-07-2012, 07:52 AM
Well, no one in these sorts of movies exist in universes with aliens and gods either... until the aliens and the gods show up. I mean, is it really that much of a leap to go from a grown man in a kevlar bat suit with the voice of an unpaved driveway fending off clown-faced serial killers, to any of the more ridiculous things in DC Comics?
I see what your saying but Nolan took great pains in the first 2 movies to set them in the real world. No chemical bath for Joker, No Lazarus pit for Ras Al Ghul "although it could exist off camera" The Bat gadgets Batmobile etc. He went out of his way to say this is reality. Superman would look strange in The Nolan Batman movies ridiculous in fact. It's part of what makes me so angry that he pulled the Alan Moore in the last one and tried to end HIS Batman so no one else could play with him but at the same time gave us a stupid story and situation far more unrealistic than most comics.

Let's be honest -- it is infinitely more likely that intelligent aliens will descend on planet Earth tomorrow than it is that a billionaire industrialist with a flying rodent fetish will inexplicably survive a nuclear explosion at ground Zero. (And I still say that anyone who actually took that ending literally hasn't thought it through properly, but that's beside the point.)Have I mentioned how I loathe DKR in every way?



If Batman Forever can be construed as a sequel to the Keaton movies, then there is no feat of continuity that Warner is not capable of.I understand, but as a viewer can you watch those movies back to back and suspend disbelief that they are the same person and world?



The main issue with doing a Justice League movie properly is not establishing the origins of the characters beforehand. Only geeks care about stuff like that, and that is not why Marvel did the Iron Man, Cap, and Thor movies before Avengers (I realize no one else noticed this, but Avengers would have been a great movie regardless of whether or not any of those movies had been made) -- they did it to build hype. Five years ago, no one outside the nerdosphere knew what a Marvel was. Now they're one of the most popular film studios in existence. Warner/DC does not have the same problem; Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman have instant public recognition in a way that none of the Avengers except Hulk (and arguably Captain America) did...

So, I'm not smart enough to say what the main issue is, but whatever it is, it's not that.I totally disagree, if those movies hadn't been made large chunks of that movie would have to have been devoted to explaining Iron Man and Thor and Hulk and Cap. I understood the motivations and personalities from the first scene and it was on to the action. X2 was like that, origin time was done and it was BOOM into the story. Avengers had the 7 main Heroes set up and the main Villain, we understood the motivations and characters everything.
It wasn't to build hype even though it did, it was universe building. It's what I thought the Sam Raimi Spider-man movies were doing by introducing Curt Conners, Betty Brant, Robbie Robertson etc. They were background characters from the first movie and I thought they would be fleshed out in later installments but they remained background throughout.



As far as Man of Steel goes, I haven't seen enough of it to form an opinion yet. I have no problem calling crap when I see it, but one mid-production trailer and a couple posters isn't enough to judge yet, IMO.I have, I've seen yet another costume that reeks of the director saying LOOK AT MEEE! Casting decisions that have me scratching my head. I know these movies aren't for the fans of the comics but they just piss all over the source material nowadays and it never works. Why couldn't Snyder have done Superman the way he did Watchmen? He adhered pretty close to the source material like it was sacred.
It stinks because Henry Cavill really looks the part, but I know a redheaded Lois and Black Perry White are going to pull me out of the story, and it is the geek in me but why is he doing it this way? The only reason is to put his brand on it. There's a saying about the singer being more important than the song. It seems he and Nolan care more about their names being remembered than making a good superhero movie.

Evan Henry
12-07-2012, 08:41 AM
I see what your saying but Nolan took great pains in the first 2 movies to set them in the real world. No chemical bath for Joker, No Lazarus pit for Ras Al Ghul "although it could exist off camera" The Bat gadgets Batmobile etc. He went out of his way to say this is reality. Superman would look strange in The Nolan Batman movies ridiculous in fact.Totally doesn't matter. In the end, Warner is going to do what they think will make them the most money, and right now it sure looks like imitating Marvel is the way to go, and the easiest way to get started on that is to pigeonhole the Bale movies into the upcoming shared universe. Sure, it's the multibillion-dollar equivalent of walking into a Christoper Nolan-shaped brick wall and saying "we meant to do that", but trust me -- that will not stop them. Not saying I want them to do it. Not saying I'm happy about it, but just from a monetary point of view it's the smartest thing for them to do.

I understand, but as a viewer can you watch those movies back to back and suspend disbelief that they are the same person and world?Well, no, but I can’t watch X-Men and X-Men: First Class back-to-back without getting a continuity-induced migraine either. That didn't stop Fox from marketing it as a prequel, using clips from the 2000 film in the trailers for First Class, inserting Jackman and Romijn, etc.

I totally disagree, if those movies hadn't been made large chunks of that movie would have to have been devoted to explaining Iron Man and Thor and Hulk and Cap. I understood the motivations and personalities from the first scene and it was on to the action.Fair enough, though I would like to hear what people who hadn't seen the other movies thought of it. Us geeks are way too insulated from The Real World to talk about this stuff objectively

Have I mentioned how I loathe DKR in every way? I’m not gonna argue this point. I enjoyed it and thought is was an alright conclusion to the series, but I can totally see how and why a lot of people hated it.

I have, I've seen yet another costume that reeks of the director saying LOOK AT MEEE! Casting decisions that have me scratching my head. I know these movies aren't for the fans of the comics but they just piss all over the source material nowadays and it never works. Why couldn't Snyder have done Superman the way he did Watchmen? He adhered pretty close to the source material like it was sacred.

It stinks because Henry Cavill really looks the part, but I know a redheaded Lois and Black Perry White are going to pull me out of the story, and it is the geek in me but why is he doing it this way?I don't disagree necessarily, though I have to say that black Nick Fury still bugs me more than black Perry White (Perry Black?) or ginger Lois ever will, even though Sam Jackson is crazy awesome. The Marvel movies are still great, though, and I have not given up hope that Man of Steel could be great too. As far as the costume goes, I doubt Snyder had much to do with that. That's all Jim Lee's fault.

Watchmen was different because it was an adaptation of a specific comic with a screenplay that had been in place for twenty years. For all Watchmen's faults, it was the lazy casting that did it in, not Snyder. I never read 300, so I'm not sure who was responsible for that atrocity. Man of Steel has been in development for years now; practically dozens of screenwriters and producers have had their hands in the pot, so one should automatically assume that at least parts of the movie are going to be screwed up. Giving the director all the blame is as unrealistic as giving him all the credit.

So yeah, the way things are lining up, I expect the Justice League movie is probably going to at least pretend to take place in the Nolanverse. Jessica Biel will play Wonder Woman, they'll cast someone young-but-not-too-young like Ryan Gosling to play Batman, and bring in Common as John Stewart and hope everyone forgets the Lantern movie. It'll be awful. The only reason I'm giving Man of Steel a chance is that they're not trying the unreasonable Nolanverse mashup just yet.

The only other thing I'm going to say is that I hope someone is taking all this down so everyone can know how gloriously, magnificently right I was two and a half years from now. :laugh:

Biofungus
12-07-2012, 12:37 PM
The thing with Avengers is, the previous movies set up the story for the Avengers movie. They were lead ins. Would the movie still be as exciting? Of course. But where did the tesseract come from? Why is bladdey blah, you get the point. There are questions that were already answered in the individual "Phase I" movies. The story is still exciting and all that, but anyone who hadn't seen at least Thor and Captain America would have been more confused by some of the plot points.

If you're going to do a Justice League movie without doing some of the other individual movies, it can be done, but the plot (nor sub plots) can significantly allude to points in a characters back story that hasn't had a separate movie. I guarantee you if you had a character like Flash say something like, "yeah, it was just like the time when I XXXX", you're going to have plenty of moviegoers going, " ' the fuck did that happen? Was there a Flash movie that I missed?" So basically, you have to establish an origin, or they come from out of nowhere.

Biofungus
12-07-2012, 12:39 PM
Man of Steel has been in development for years now; practically dozens of screenwriters and producers have had their hands in the pot, so one should automatically assume that at least parts of the movie are going to be screwed up. Giving the director all the blame is as unrealistic as giving him all the credit.

Didn't stop most people for blaming Singer completely for "Superman Returns".

Moonrider
12-08-2012, 01:14 PM
I think I'm up to the point where whatever and however WB wants to do The Justice League movie, I really don't care.

Biofungus
12-08-2012, 04:28 PM
I think I'm up to the point where whatever and however WB wants to do The Justice League movie, I really don't care.
Neither do they, and that's the problem.

CHWolf
12-08-2012, 04:56 PM
We can only hope that WB sees dollar signs and actually STEALS from Marvel's film playbook.

It's alright, Warner Bros. please just wantonly take their shit. We'll look the other way.
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Paul Sanderson
12-15-2012, 12:29 AM
It's a cliche, but it really all depends on who the writer and director will be. We know who the writer is (so far), someone called Will Beale (I think), no word on a director yet.

Co.Inkadink
12-15-2012, 03:08 AM
It's a cliche, but it really all depends on who the writer and director will be. We know who the writer is (so far), someone called Will Beale (I think), no word on a director yet.

The writer and director have monumental tasks ahead of them to make it work. I've been thinking about it and there is a way it might work. Take the original X-men movie, just have all the characters in Place from the beginning like they've been together for a while and spotlight your main guys and allude to stuff about the others. Only difference if you scrimp on Wonder Woman and The Flash make sure you have some solo movies in the works for them to flesh them out. In the end it's the avengers recipe backwards. It's risky but it could work.

Paul Sanderson
12-20-2012, 06:32 PM
Yep, it could definitely work. All will depend on the talent involved.