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View Full Version : DC Poll Misfires, Disappears.


CHWolf
09-29-2012, 11:06 PM
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/09/29/dcs-new-52-poll-dcs-new-52-facebook-poll-backfires-just-a-bit-just-a-bit/

I love shit like this.

Don't ask if you don't want to know!

Biofungus
09-29-2012, 11:51 PM
Only one Liefeld suggestion. I'm shocked!

Sage
09-30-2012, 01:21 AM
Actually there were two.

"Hire artists who can properly draw women. Fire anyone ignorant of basic anatomy."
:har:

Biofungus
09-30-2012, 01:36 AM
I don't think that was directed solely at Liefeld though. Have you seen the art on the books? There's maybe 5 that have decent art in them.

dmh_3000
09-30-2012, 11:22 PM
Only one Liefeld suggestion. I'm shocked!

Wonder what he'd be like as EIC? If he isn't plotting his books, he usually gives creators free reign so maybe he'd actually do well?

Lovecraft13
10-01-2012, 12:41 PM
I can't believe people got all crass... on the internet, of all places.

CHWolf
10-01-2012, 03:28 PM
To think, DC attacked by faceless Jokers.

Renae De Liz
10-01-2012, 05:01 PM
Just from observation, bigger publishers don't really care about input from readers unless sales are down and they cannot figure out an answer elsewhere.

I think it would do a lot of good if they did pay attention to mass input from readers, it would only strengthen comics as a whole providing the things people want to read.

Paul Sanderson
10-01-2012, 08:32 PM
People need to start voting with their wallets rather than useless online polls. Then DC et al would start to take notice.

Biofungus
10-02-2012, 01:08 AM
That's pretty much what Renae stated already.

Sales are down across the board for DC (http://comicsbeat.com/dc-comics-month-to-month-sales-july-2012/ ). People ARE voting with their wallets, and DC wants to know why.

Paul Sanderson
10-02-2012, 05:49 AM
I know (to both). People need to keep it up and increase it before DC finally gets the message and sets things right (ie. ditching the 'New 52' for a start).

Troy Wall
10-02-2012, 09:45 AM
That's pretty much what Renae stated already.

Sales are down across the board for DC (http://comicsbeat.com/dc-comics-month-to-month-sales-july-2012/ ). People ARE voting with their wallets, and DC wants to know why.

That article says their sales slipped to...just shy of 9 million dollars for June. Comic book sales. In 2012. Down from 9 million even the month prior.

I read a whopping 1 DC comic per month, and I've said here that's a shame considering how many they publish....but I don't see how sales can be perceived as being down compared with pre-New 52 figures, which is certainly what Didio and company are constantly looking at.

Duane Korslund
10-02-2012, 10:30 AM
we all knew that eventually the pitchforks and torches would be brought out demanding a return to the old ways....I'm not surprised, but DC is in a "damned if we do, damned if we don't" corner. People will read the core titles no matter which universe its in, the problem is: its not enough to sustain, or compete with Marvel. If they cant figure out a way to get Aquaman, Hawk & Dove, and many of the other second string titles (yes Aquaman is not first string...hell..put in on 3rd string....or bench him), to be popular they're not gonna compete with the Marvel Studios entertainment juggernaut. DC has been too meek and they're paying the price. For every 1 decent DC comic, movie, cartoon released, Marvel puts out 3. Batman cant save you against those odds.

UniverseX259
10-02-2012, 11:34 AM
I sense another DC implosion. Someone posted a really great article on here once about how a company releasing too many comics actually hurts sales in the long run (i.e. If there are 5 Wolverine titles, the casual fan won't know which is the "real" book, so they avoid the line completely). I see the same thing with having 52 different titles, many of which are just there, in my opinion, to pad it out so they actually have 52 titles.

On a side note, does anyone truly appreciate the New 52? I know people who read it, but they can't help but compare it to the older continuity. It's like they're acting as though it's just an event or a small bump in the road.

Duane Korslund
10-02-2012, 11:37 AM
I sense another DC implosion. Someone posted a really great article on here once about how a company releasing too many comics actually hurts sales in the long run (i.e. If there are 5 Wolverine titles, the casual fan won't know which is the "real" book, so they avoid the line completely). I see the same thing with having 52 different titles, many of which are just there, in my opinion, to pad it out so they actually have 52 titles.

On a side note, does anyone truly appreciate the New 52? I know people who read it, but they can't help but compare it to the older continuity. It's like they're acting as though it's just an event or a small bump in the road.

I keep thinking its just going to go away...like bad cheese. I'm waiting for the book that has the Joker shooting from his cot in Arkham screaming in a cold sweat revealing that the entire new 52 was just a bad dream....Hey that's a good idea...maybe DC should do that! It'll be a good way to retcon everything right back to normal....

UniverseX259
10-02-2012, 01:52 PM
I keep thinking its just going to go away...like bad cheese. I'm waiting for the book that has the Joker shooting from his cot in Arkham screaming in a cold sweat revealing that the entire new 52 was just a bad dream....Hey that's a good idea...maybe DC should do that! It'll be a good way to retcon everything right back to normal....

Hah hah, St. Elsewhere DC style!

I was talking with someone about the first Crisis on Infinite Earths in '85. He said he began to give up on comics after that because all it proved to him was that any actions in the comics could become irrelevant at any time if the editors deemed it so. The original Crisis didn't change the characters too much, per se, but it did make pretty much all continuity when it came to the other Earths null and void. So the JSA, who only interacted with the JLA on certain occasions, now co-existed with them on the same Earth all along? Superman was no longer the first superhero? What's Hawkman's deal again? I also have no doubt that this lead to the current string of "comic book deaths" we've been seeing almost monthly from the Big 2.

Since then we've had Zero Hour, Infinite Crisis, Final Crisis, and Flashpoint. Now if something bugs editorial they can just do a continuity reboot and try and iron it out. I can understand this being a deus ex machina to help make things clearer to readers, but for long-time readers it's just confusing as hell. The New 52 was meant to be a clearer jumping on point for new readers, but still I think a lot of these changes would confuse new readers, especially with points like Superboy's place in continuity or his relationship with Lois.

Troy Wall
10-02-2012, 02:25 PM
What troubles me is that the company went 45+ years without rebooting their continuity...and then have made soft reboots twice with Infinite and Final and the big reboot with Flash Point all in the span of five to six years.

It comes off as desperate. Didio is the real architect of New 52...he advocated a full on reboot for Infinite and Final Crisis, but everyone was not in agreement until last year to move forward with it. Didio has said he realizes Infinite and Final were far too close together. I don't think following up with Flash Point made the situation any better.

Who knew the Reverse-Flash was so epic that he could out do two Crises? :O)

Renae De Liz
10-02-2012, 04:12 PM
Purely my opinion, but they are stuck in a big old rut. The problem is they keep trying the same ideas over and over because it's easy and they DO boost sales. It's just not lasting because they're not doing the core hard work to listen to their readership and apply that input to their titles to make them truly lasting and successful. They have the same people in charge giving the same input and not listening to other ideas, honestly because they don't have to. They are successful enough without having to change anything, and if sales slack, they'll do something similar to what they've always done to boost it again.

They also do not hire talent that does not already conform to what they've always done. Meaning, they'll hire someone to write the new DC title but only if they write stories in the same taste they've written everything else. Nothing new or creative. The artists have to fit a "house style". And both writer and artist usually comes from already within DC. I'm all for current talent keeping with work, but not branching out to new ideas and styles is severely keeping them from becoming truly and lastingly successful.

They are also more of a locked up fort when it comes to people wanting to give new ideas. You have to either go through the solicitation process (in which you need an agent I believe) OR you have to to be commissioned by DC, and they probably won't do that unless you already conform to what they look for.

I hope something changes, because I've seen and heard from the type of readership just waiting to read their books if they make them. Having a stronger comics industry is to the benefit of everyone.

Troy Wall
10-02-2012, 06:06 PM
Purely my opinion, but they are stuck in a big old rut. The problem is they keep trying the same ideas over and over because it's easy and they DO boost sales. It's just not lasting because they're not doing the core hard work to listen to their readership and apply that input to their titles to make them truly lasting and successful. They have the same people in charge giving the same input and not listening to other ideas, honestly because they don't have to. They are successful enough without having to change anything, and if sales slack, they'll do something similar to what they've always done to boost it again.

They also do not hire talent that does not already conform to what they've always done. Meaning, they'll hire someone to write the new DC title but only if they write stories in the same taste they've written everything else. Nothing new or creative. The artists have to fit a "house style". And both writer and artist usually comes from already within DC. I'm all for current talent keeping with work, but not branching out to new ideas and styles is severely keeping them from becoming truly and lastingly successful.

They are also more of a locked up fort when it comes to people wanting to give new ideas. You have to either go through the solicitation process (in which you need an agent I believe) OR you have to to be commissioned by DC, and they probably won't do that unless you already conform to what they look for.

I hope something changes, because I've seen and heard from the type of readership just waiting to read their books if they make them. Having a stronger comics industry is to the benefit of everyone.

Sister Renae preaches the truth.

The entire problem with the New 52 initiative is...there isn't a damn thing "new" about it. The line is as stale as it ever was. Some titles are now less interesting than their previous iterations...Birds of Prey, Superman. Grant Morrison couldn't make DC's vision for Action Comics interesting.

Here's what you do to revitalize Superman: You call Morrison and ask him to come aboard Action and bring the same creative wild fire he brought on All-Star Superman. No reboot, just come and entertain the readers like we know you can. No paint by numbers guide from editorial.

Who cares whether the DC characters have been around for "five years", per New 52, or decades? It's irrelevant. Tell a great story.

CHWolf
10-02-2012, 11:55 PM
Animal Man's going to be so confused by the end of all this.

dmh_3000
10-03-2012, 01:23 AM
On a side note, does anyone truly appreciate the New 52? I know people who read it, but they can't help but compare it to the older continuity. It's like they're acting as though it's just an event or a small bump in the road.

Admittedly, I've been hoping this is how it'll all turn out ever since the line was launched. I refuse to support it, to the point where I haven't bought a single issue since last year. I buy the trades that collect the post crisis stories because those are the ones I want to read, but I have been steadfast in my refusal to buy anything from the new 52.

Unfortunately how I vote with my wallet doesn't seem to be making much impact but it's the principle of the thing.

Biofungus
10-03-2012, 02:24 AM
Animal Man's going to be so confused by the end of all this.
Did you just call me "Animal Man"?

:sure:

CHWolf
10-03-2012, 02:53 AM
Just echoing the writing on bathroom walls.

UniverseX259
10-03-2012, 12:36 PM
Admittedly, I've been hoping this is how it'll all turn out ever since the line was launched. I refuse to support it, to the point where I haven't bought a single issue since last year. I buy the trades that collect the post crisis stories because those are the ones I want to read, but I have been steadfast in my refusal to buy anything from the new 52.

Unfortunately how I vote with my wallet doesn't seem to be making much impact but it's the principle of the thing.

Same here. When Justice League #1 came out a friend lent me his copy, and I was just lost. It's a great jumping on point for new readers who aren't familiar with the JLA, but for me it was just confusing as all hell. My comic buying has slacked in the past year or 2, but I went from buying mostly DC comics to buying zero DC comics as soon as the re-boot happened.

Mwynn
10-03-2012, 02:15 PM
http://www.facebook.com/voteindependentcomics?fref=ts

Lovecraft13
10-03-2012, 08:41 PM
Remember when comics were fun? DC doesn't.

DC wants to be the Marvel of a few years ago. Next thing you know, JLA will be fighting each other, and members will either side with Batman or Superman.

Troy Wall
10-03-2012, 09:41 PM
Next thing you know, JLA will be fighting each other, and members will either side with Batman or Superman.

That's actually slated to happen in 2013, except with three sides to chose from, according to rumor master Rich Johnston @ Bleeding Cool. He's been predicting it since early this year when a source inside DC told him the story was under development and was being referred to as "Trinity War" by editorial. Wonder Woman VS Batman VS Superman, everyone choses a side.

Lovecraft13
10-04-2012, 03:43 PM
Meh. Sounds like DC is creatively bankrupt.

CHWolf
10-04-2012, 06:45 PM
Mark my words. They should've accepted my Ace the Bat-Hound series.

Allegory Comics
10-05-2012, 08:28 AM
I don't like some of the things they're doing in New 52, but I do like others. Regardless, sales remain high. Superman titles are selling 3-times what they sold before the reboot, and Action Comics has been at or near the top 10 in Diamond sales almost every month -- still beat by Justice League and the Batman titles.

My point is, we can complain all we want -- it's selling big, so someone out there likes it.

At first, cynical fans said "it's only selling because it's new and fans are curious." Well, it's been a year and sales have steadied, much higher than they were before.

The good news for you fans who still aren't on board: Grant Morrison's upcoming "Multiversity" series allows an emergency exit that DC can exploit at any moment to return to the old ways when/if sales stagnate.

Biofungus
10-07-2012, 10:33 AM
Obviously, regardless of current sales, DC is seeing a definite downtrend. The poll was part of their attempt to nip it in the bud, but it failed miserably. It's obvious that they see the writing on the wall.

Allegory Comics
10-07-2012, 11:03 AM
If the Internet has taught us anything, Bio, it's that trolls are louder than everyone else. So I put more faith in sales reports than I do a non-scientific Internet poll, and I think DC Comics does too.

Eventually sales will begin to flatten out again and DC will have another Crisis to go back to the old DC, just because it's another excuse to "restart everything" in a big event they can sell to fans. I'd look for it within the next 5-6 years, before Action Comics hits #96 -- which would be Action #1,000 in traditional numbering. They'll no doubt want to cash in on that milestone.

Moonrider
10-07-2012, 01:24 PM
The initial idea of rebooting the whole DC Universe was actually a good one, in my opinion. It's the execution that leaves me feeling betrayed as a reader. It's basically just a huge yet weak attempt at amalgamating the Wildstorm universe with the DCU. I think what DC should have done with New 52 is to make one book that tells the story from the beginning, like an anthology history book. Something like the weekly DC 52 or Trinity, but it spans the entire DCU and tell small, short stories that serve as the background for the new titles. I also hate how they separate the JSA into 'Earth 2' making them 'hip' and young with bad '90s fashion sense.

Biofungus
10-07-2012, 10:02 PM
If the Internet has taught us anything, Bio, it's that trolls are louder than everyone else. So I put more faith in sales reports than I do a non-scientific Internet poll, and I think DC Comics does too.


Um...

I did post links to sales reports and it does show that sales have been dropping every month since at least June.

Allegory Comics
10-07-2012, 10:28 PM
Um...

I did post links to sales reports and it does show that sales have been dropping every month since at least June.

But like I said ... right now they're relatively high numbers, and if they are dropping it's only in small increments each month. Superman titles are still selling 2- and 3-times what they did before the reboot. That's a big win. Also like I said already, the sales will eventually bottom out. They're high now, but eventually they'll get low again. That's when DC will reboot again and go back to the old DC ways -- just in time for Action #1,000.

So I'm acknowledging that sales will eventually drop out, but for now they are very high. If they are dropping, they are not dropping fast enough. Remember, Superman title sales dropped 50 PERCENT in ONE YEAR (2010-11) and whatever slow decline they experience now still doesn't compare to that. And it's hard for DC to see how this is any kind of failure when the books are (at the moment, at least) selling so well.

CHWolf
10-07-2012, 10:57 PM
It's an unsustainable endeavor. That's the biggest issue. They can only keep the changes in place for so long until they have to revert - at least in spirit.

They don't have to announce "We're going back to how it was!" but they're going to need to switch back on several aspects.

It's just what we learn from history. Here's a new costume for this mainstream character, whoops, we have to go back some time soon because otherwise we'll lock ourselves into this hairbrained whim.

Every change they made that either no one cared about or that theoretically killed a character/book will have to be reverted. Each thing that makes a character less recognizable, or PROFITABLE in terms of merchandise and tie-ins has to be reverted.


And so it goes.

Biofungus
10-08-2012, 11:09 AM
But like I said ... right now they're relatively high numbers, and if they are dropping it's only in small increments each month. Superman titles are still selling 2- and 3-times what they did before the reboot. That's a big win. Also like I said already, the sales will eventually bottom out. They're high now, but eventually they'll get low again. That's when DC will reboot again and go back to the old DC ways -- just in time for Action #1,000.

So I'm acknowledging that sales will eventually drop out, but for now they are very high. If they are dropping, they are not dropping fast enough. Remember, Superman title sales dropped 50 PERCENT in ONE YEAR (2010-11) and whatever slow decline they experience now still doesn't compare to that. And it's hard for DC to see how this is any kind of failure when the books are (at the moment, at least) selling so well.
If they keep falling at the current "increment", they'll dip below pre-DCnU sales in less than a year. Considering it takes upwards of 6-8 months to set up a 'strategy', and add another 6+ since Warner Bros. is in charge... WB/DC is inefficient, but not completely stupid. They already know they're heading for a major drop off (and just in time for their Superman and Justice League movies to fail), that's why they started the poll.

Just saying, you're a pretty big DC fan (particularly Superman), but you're doing exactly what you're saying the internet trolls do, only the opposite. You're preaching how big the numbers are, how "small" the increments are (losing 4k sales a month on a book that sells roughly 120k isn't really all that small). But obviously WB/DC sees the danger in the sales trend.

It's ironic, I'm actually trying to give them credit for the attempt at foresight (and I'm definitely not big on DC) and you're the one who seems to be saying, "don't worry about it, they're fine" when even *they* don't think they're fine :p

Allegory Comics
10-08-2012, 10:52 PM
It's ironic, I'm actually trying to give them credit for the attempt at foresight (and I'm definitely not big on DC) and you're the one who seems to be saying, "don't worry about it, they're fine" when even *they* don't think they're fine :p
No, I think what I'm saying is: They're doing better right now than they were before the relaunch, but they are losing that edge every month and eventually it's going to drop out entirely.

I think we're both saying the same thing. You just keep missing the part where I say "this will all eventually end badly for DC"

And as for a plan, I knew immediately when DC announced the return of the multiverse what their plan was. By allowing the multiverse to exist, they keep open the possibility that the old DC is still out there. It wouldn't take much effort to go back now. I think it's only a matter of time.

CHWolf
10-08-2012, 11:04 PM
The solution to this whole thing is to consolidate all DC comics into one monthly GN.

It would come to your house like the phone book.

Troy Wall
10-09-2012, 12:14 PM
And be entirely written and drawn by Sir Robert Liefeld.

dmh_3000
10-10-2012, 01:19 AM
And be entirely written and drawn by Sir Robert Liefeld.

I think he's too busy ego jerking on twitter to help out.

MBirkhofer
10-10-2012, 02:11 PM
To be fair, there are some good things from the new 52u.

Wonderwoman is one of the best comics out period. Dc, Marvel, Indie, etc all included.
That its not one of the top selling is very disappointing.

Not a fan of what they did to Xanadu, but Demon knights is still a great book.

I am very proud of Sword of Sorcery.

Biofungus
10-10-2012, 02:32 PM
Doesn't Wonder Woman use a gun now, though? :confused:

MBirkhofer
10-10-2012, 03:49 PM
Guns of love yo.
http://www.mbirkhofer.com/screenshots/Wonder_Woman_Vol_4_8.jpg

Those hearts. haha.

Renae De Liz
10-10-2012, 05:10 PM
Guns of love yo.
http://www.mbirkhofer.com/screenshots/Wonder_Woman_Vol_4_8.jpg

Those hearts. haha.

Oh Noes :( ...the wrongness of it all.

CHWolf
10-10-2012, 09:16 PM
Sapphire bullets. Bullets of pure love.

MBirkhofer
10-10-2012, 09:23 PM
Those covers too. Seriously, I think its the best book out right now period.

PS. SoS #1 out Oct 17th. :)

JasonEnosArt
12-19-2012, 09:25 PM
'bout the only thing that I've really enjoyed was "Court of the Owls" and the Dr. Manhattan series of Before Watchmen, but that's because I've been watching Hughes do interiors again. Not sure if that really adds to the discussion, because I'm pretty sure that "Watchmen" doesn't qualify as "New 52".

I thought the whole idea of the New 52 was a mistake... "Like what you know, but NEW!!!!!" So basically, everything we like about a character, but not really.

I loved a graph I found online... It was labeled "Harley Quinn" showed an x, with the upline indicating "flesh shown" and the downline indicating "fan interest in character"... Very telling in this reboot. Some new looks, some new details, and a lot of upset fans.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Obviously, old faltering titles need a fresh start (such as, back in the day, when Alan Moore giving new life to "Swamp Thing"), but when has Bats been hurt? Generally a fresh writer can find new grist for the mill, even after 70 years with Bruce Wayne. Does he need a re-boot? A few classics can't hurt from new angles in backstories, but do these people need ground-up changes? Maybe soon, we'll see that Zatanna was gazing into her hat as she fell asleep and accidentally messed up the universe and we're just waiting for the restore spell...