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Biofungus
08-22-2012, 09:01 PM
http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2012/08/rob-liefeld-walks-off-three-dc-titles-to-preserve-my-sanity/

CHWolf
08-22-2012, 09:06 PM
Poo-flinging monkey quits zoo?

Biofungus
08-22-2012, 09:33 PM
That's the thing: George Perez quit "Superman" for basically the same reasons. But George is a consummate professional. Just about everything out of Liefeld's mouth sounds like he's just being whiney.

Sage
08-22-2012, 11:25 PM
Everything started to go to hell at DC once Jim Lee was named overlord.

Could it be that fandom was actually right for once?

Troy Wall
08-23-2012, 01:54 AM
Now where is Liefeld gonna work? Axel Alonso refers to him as Howdy Doody and I think his short-lived collaboration with Robert Kirkman ended...well, the way all Liefeld collaborations end.

Lovecraft13
08-23-2012, 02:48 PM
Where does the industry go from here?

Duane Korslund
08-23-2012, 03:03 PM
Ding Dong! The Witch is dead!!


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GRhzFaQP48Q/TkKFitLs4GI/AAAAAAAAAHc/INvb3Dq5DgU/s1600/witch.jpg

Troy Wall
08-23-2012, 07:07 PM
I have to wonder why Liefeld even "stressed" himself with a year's worth of work from the DC New 52. Does he need to work? Honestly, he doesn't come off as the most responsible of individual's, so I guess it's possible.

But Liefeld has made millions of dollars in comics. Marvel paid him $2 million to participate in the 1996 Heroes Reborn effort alone. He also just tweeted about "completion bonuses" that Marvel was paying the sorry asses for when they actually completed an issue, and how he sent an Extreme studios freelancer to NYC to exchange a disc with Cap #3 on it for fifty thousand dollars. Was this 50k a fucking bonus for actually completing the issue? Don't forget Liefeld's name disappeared from the credits by the fourth issues of the Heroes Reborn era. He made millions for 60-90 days of work. And all of that is merely a drop in the bucket of what is now a 20+ incredibly successful (and unbelievable) career. No telling the money that was made during those first few months of the Image launch/speculator boom.

Anway, that's probably why he doesn't mind burning tons of bridges as he's doing right now on Twitter. He has fuck you money to top off his already gleaming personality qualities.

Biofungus
08-23-2012, 08:28 PM
Now where is Liefeld gonna work? Axel Alonso refers to him as Howdy Doody and I think his short-lived collaboration with Robert Kirkman ended...well, the way all Liefeld collaborations end.
He's taking over "Bloodstrike" again in a couple of issues.

Biofungus
08-23-2012, 08:30 PM
I have to wonder why Liefeld even "stressed" himself with a year's worth of work from the DC New 52. Does he need to work? Honestly, he doesn't come off as the most responsible of individual's, so I guess it's possible.

But Liefeld has made millions of dollars in comics. Marvel paid him $2 million to participate in the 1996 Heroes Reborn effort alone. He also just tweeted about "completion bonuses" that Marvel was paying the sorry asses for when they actually completed an issue, and how he sent an Extreme studios freelancer to NYC to exchange a disc with Cap #3 on it for fifty thousand dollars. Was this 50k a fucking bonus for actually completing the issue? Don't forget Liefeld's name disappeared from the credits by the fourth issues of the Heroes Reborn era. He made millions for 60-90 days of work. And all of that is merely a drop in the bucket of what is now a 20+ incredibly successful (and unbelievable) career. No telling the money that was made during those first few months of the Image launch/speculator boom.

Anway, that's probably why he doesn't mind burning tons of bridges as he's doing right now on Twitter. He has fuck you money to top off his already gleaming personality qualities.
60-90 days of work? This is Liefeld. So we're talking about 6 months easily.

CHWolf
08-23-2012, 08:40 PM
Ding Dong! The Witch is dead!!


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GRhzFaQP48Q/TkKFitLs4GI/AAAAAAAAAHc/INvb3Dq5DgU/s1600/witch.jpg

Can't be. I don't see any Levis 501 button-fly jeans.

Troy Wall
08-23-2012, 08:46 PM
60-90 days of work? This is Liefeld. So we're talking about 6 months easily.

Well, Jeph Loeb and even Jim Valentino started to pop up as scripter from like the second issue so it looked like deadlines were being kept regardless of how much work Liefeld was actually completing. Liefeld likely recruited help from his Extreme studios artists and by the third and fourth issues, folks like Ian Churchill had taken over completely.

Troy Wall
08-23-2012, 08:49 PM
Can't be. I don't see any Levis 501 button-fly jeans.

Ha. The jeans commercial is the one single thing I think Liefeld gets underserved flak over. He was so young...no way a kid would turn down a jeans commercial.

Ebony Warrior
08-24-2012, 04:42 PM
I love how he talks about DC bring in hack artists and guys that just draw silluettes. The man really needs a reality check on his own work. There aren't very many professionals that produce worse art and writing than he does.

Bishop
08-24-2012, 05:14 PM
I love how he talks about DC bring in hack artists and guys that just draw silluettes. The man really needs a reality check on his own work. There aren't very many professionals that produce worse art and writing than he does.

I agree. Many have tried to give him this check, but his mindset is always "If I suck, why do I make so much more money than you?"

I just don't get his popularity at all.

Biofungus
08-24-2012, 06:00 PM
Not to mention what he considered third rate talent on Deadpool. Considering Deadpool was created by a fourth rate hack...

CHWolf
08-24-2012, 07:06 PM
He's the comic book precursor to Paris Hilton or the Kardashians.

He's simply famous because he's famous.

The Dag
08-24-2012, 11:43 PM
He's the comic book precursor to Paris Hilton or the Kardashians.

He's simply famous because he's famous.

Kardashians are famous cause of there dad. Also one fucked a famous person on tape.

DiabloCodySux
08-25-2012, 12:13 AM
SO many people were hideously jealous about his money/fame, when they worked ten times as hard, spent over 70 days in the best Life Drawing classes, and in this case, jealousy was not a negative emotion. It was on honest and fair reaction to total hypocrisy on the part of the people that kept paying Rob, increasing his rate, and rewarding him nightmarishly for all the "art-mistakes" that they spoke AGAINST to other artists trying to break in. Or if people *had* broken in, if they started doing what Rob was rewarded for, the other artists were - frankly - fucked with.

DiabloCodySux
08-25-2012, 12:14 AM
edited because CHWolf and The Dag made the Paris reference as I was typing it - WELL SAID, Dag! *applauds the Dag*

DiabloCodySux
08-25-2012, 12:17 AM
If we imagine Pauly Shore ended up being Russell Brand, and comedy was comics-culture, we'd have Rob.

Justice41
08-25-2012, 12:34 AM
The hate....... tisk tisk. All these years and you guys still stress over What Liefeld does or doesn't do. I Like Rob Always have even after meeting him and him offering me a gig and even recently he offered me a gig to finish Marat's pencils. As I always do I turned em down. Give up the hate, Rob struck a cord for whatever reason and polarized fans. People who like Liefeld really like him and those who don't sit on forums fuming over Robs latest adventure.

DiabloCodySux
08-25-2012, 12:49 AM
I don't hate Rob, or even his art. I loathe and despise the corporate hypocrisy expressed in millions of dollars towards his art.

The fact that I think he looks like a "Bizarro World" version of Marky Mark with the same disparity of IQ as seen betwixt Bizarro and Clark Kent is circumstantial.

I don't hate sharks. I don't hate snakes. I don't hate possums. I don't hate raccoons. I don't hate scorpions. I don't hate midges. I don't hate skunks. I don't hate Rob.

Troy Wall
08-25-2012, 12:54 AM
The fact that I think he looks like a "Bizarro World" version of Marky Mark


So fucking true.

Justice, why have you actively avoided drawing comics for so many years now?

CHWolf
08-25-2012, 01:14 AM
The hate....... tisk tisk. All these years and you guys still stress over What Liefeld does or doesn't do. I Like Rob Always have even after meeting him and him offering me a gig and even recently he offered me a gig to finish Marat's pencils. As I always do I turned em down. Give up the hate, Rob struck a cord for whatever reason and polarized fans. People who like Liefeld really like him and those who don't sit on forums fuming over Robs latest adventure.

Worse yet is stressing over what others are stressing over.

"I'm not stressing!" you say. Neither are we.


Liefeld is a roadside accident. We're just slowing down to take a look.

DiabloCodySux
08-25-2012, 01:45 AM
I don't think he's a road accident. I think he's someone who never had "more" asked of him, who had more than several skills at a level of proficiency that when he went from following a trend to being a trend, from "ripping" manga/Art Adams to being "Das Rob", there would never be any impetus for him to grow, to WORK, at all.

That's "lazy parenting". That's letting Elvis eat/embibe whatever he wants without saying "King, y'all gonna die onna da crapper if you'se don't eat some mutha-effin' celery, blue suede shoes or not."

Colby
08-25-2012, 03:49 AM
I'm not going into the whole Liefeld art argument because I don't understand and I don't understand the hate. However, obviously from all the creative talent thats been having issues with DC, some funny business is probably going down. From the different breakdowns it looks like its in middle management-editorial that sheperds the different lines and them not being concrete with the other lines or with some of their talent and probably not communicating properly.

From what I've read, Liefeld sounds frustrated by the creative process and needs to vent. Which I find highly entertaining as he just does not care, its pretty awesome actually. Why can't he vent his frustration over his recent work experience. Is it any difference from what this thread is doing right now?

Biofungus
08-25-2012, 06:23 PM
Is it any difference from what this thread is doing right now?

Yes, because;
1] None of us put several talented creative teams out of work when taking over their books.
2] None of us were getting paid tens, possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars to essentially destroy several books, hurt the careers/incomes of again, several dedicated and talented creative teams, and then quit and bitch about it (especially given that this is what, like his fifth "second chance" at the big two?)
3] Alluding to the last part of #2, for all they pay him, he has absolutely NO respect for anybody in the industry, at all. When a professional like George Perez gets frustrated and leaves, nobody accuses him of whining because he's a talented, bankable professional who will find work again quickly, and hasn't screwed anybody over in the process. When a decidedly unprofessional like Rob does it, we know he was paid more than the value of his contributions, he does screw over people in the process, and only God knows why they keep giving him extra chances. Maybe Rob found the comics equivalent to the Konami code? Seriously, for what he always inevitably costs the company, there's just no viable excuse to keep hiring him. It's just total near-sightedness on the company's behalves. The short term jump in sales (if any, I don't recall hearing about any jumps when he took over the other books, and in fact Hawk and Dove were *cancelled*) certainly doesn't outweigh the extra expense he incurs, nor the tantrums he throws that leave the company's having to scramble to fill the void (not to mention the poor writers who have to either retcon the direction he was taking the books, or somehow continue on with it).

I think the general animosity is, as was stated earlier, more towards Marvel/DC because the product he puts out is ALWAYS crap. Even his two "greatest" contributions to comics, Cable and Deadpool, only became palatable due to other creators long after Liefeld was out of the picture. And his own creations are unoriginal at best, copyright infringing at worst. He is absolutely the worst "creator" in the history of comics, and the fact that he not only actively puts much better creators (art and writing) out of work, just pisses people off.

On a Rob-specific note; First off, the guy thinks he's King Shit, that it's never his fault the books he works on always wind up failing. His artwork, has barely improved at ALL in 20 years. The only real noticeable improvement has been his ankle drawing. His anatomy, perspective, composition, etc, have not improved. It shows a remarkable amount of disrespect to the readers and companies that hire him that he doesn't even care to try to improve himself (for all his millions, it would have killed him to have taken a 50 dollar anatomy course, or read an anatomy book in 20 years?)

He's a disgrace to the industry, and to any self-respecting artist or writer. Yet his ego is so over-inflated, he can't even see how detrimental he is to the industry. I don't care if he wants to create his own crap. I'll be honest, I've seen worse. Yet even in most of those worse attempts, there was a genuine attempt to craft a story. (Just look at Kid Intense. He has a genuine affection for the industry, a legitimate enthusiasm and respect. Even if his skills are well, not up to snuff.) But when other companies start hiring him to fuck with their creations, that's just ridiculous. They should be ashamed, because you know Rob certainly isn't.

CHWolf
08-25-2012, 06:38 PM
I dint reed all that but ur just jeolas of his money n faem!!!1

DiabloCodySux
08-26-2012, 12:25 AM
CHW hates to not be the biggest asshole in the room, so I'm gonna poke the bear so he can roar, teeee heeeee heeee.

RE Rob:

The feet thing is easy. Lazy buggers repeat the "I don't draw feet complaint".

I'm gonna open the betting on this 5 card draw table with "for all the molars he draws, he's never seen a fucking tooth behind a bicuspid, apprently."

See and raise or fold!

CHWolf
08-26-2012, 12:32 AM
I'd hate that if it ever happened, yeah.

DiabloCodySux
08-26-2012, 12:41 AM
I raised you. Rob's "teeth" are worse than his missing-feet-in-panels-schtick.

Do you see my hand, raise, or fold?

CHWolf
08-26-2012, 12:50 AM
Scissors.

Troy Wall
08-26-2012, 12:53 AM
Rob attacked Scott Snyder on Twitter today, telling him Batman doesn't sell well because of his writing, rather it's because it is simply a Batman title.

DiabloCodySux
08-26-2012, 01:41 AM
Scissors.

"scissors [snip]"

You look at the camera, in a badly-cut sheet with eyeholes, and say in a Charlie Brown 1960's Halloween voice, "I got a rock".

Troy: that is SO wacky. I mean... barf. I don't even understand how Rob thinks anyone is supposed to parse such a proposition.

I'm getting motion sickness from the Rob-i-tude of what you just shared with us, but again, hey, so many of us are so envious that someone who only draws chicklets instead of teeth and repeats pockets-on-belts like Rainman repeats names of days of the week can never worry about a roof over his head.

Justice41
08-26-2012, 02:25 AM
Meh, Work on ya own stuff an don't fret none ovah Liefeld. Pusht aside da Bitterness and worry on what ya aint done

DiabloCodySux
08-26-2012, 02:40 AM
Again, ya'll ain't reading da lines, Scatman Brothers.

One can be bitter about the bullshit that came from the SUITS that paid Rob, without being bitter about Rob.

I can love the Flip Wilson Show (and I saw every episode), be grateful it was on NickAtNite, and still tell Nickolodeon to go get reamed-til-prolapse-occurs for hiring Mr. no-Talent Bullshit Artist Can't Draw Worth Shit Or Write 'neither for "Invader Something-That-Rhymes-With-Skim".

Colby
08-26-2012, 04:51 AM
Yes, because;
1] None of us put several talented creative teams out of work when taking over their books.
2] None of us were getting paid tens, possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars to essentially destroy several books, hurt the careers/incomes of again, several dedicated and talented creative teams, and then quit and bitch about it (especially given that this is what, like his fifth "second chance" at the big two?)
3] Alluding to the last part of #2, for all they pay him, he has absolutely NO respect for anybody in the industry, at all. When a professional like George Perez gets frustrated and leaves, nobody accuses him of whining because he's a talented, bankable professional who will find work again quickly, and hasn't screwed anybody over in the process. When a decidedly unprofessional like Rob does it, we know he was paid more than the value of his contributions, he does screw over people in the process, and only God knows why they keep giving him extra chances. Maybe Rob found the comics equivalent to the Konami code? Seriously, for what he always inevitably costs the company, there's just no viable excuse to keep hiring him. It's just total near-sightedness on the company's behalves. The short term jump in sales (if any, I don't recall hearing about any jumps when he took over the other books, and in fact Hawk and Dove were *cancelled*) certainly doesn't outweigh the extra expense he incurs, nor the tantrums he throws that leave the company's having to scramble to fill the void (not to mention the poor writers who have to either retcon the direction he was taking the books, or somehow continue on with it).

I think the general animosity is, as was stated earlier, more towards Marvel/DC because the product he puts out is ALWAYS crap. Even his two "greatest" contributions to comics, Cable and Deadpool, only became palatable due to other creators long after Liefeld was out of the picture. And his own creations are unoriginal at best, copyright infringing at worst. He is absolutely the worst "creator" in the history of comics, and the fact that he not only actively puts much better creators (art and writing) out of work, just pisses people off.

On a Rob-specific note; First off, the guy thinks he's King Shit, that it's never his fault the books he works on always wind up failing. His artwork, has barely improved at ALL in 20 years. The only real noticeable improvement has been his ankle drawing. His anatomy, perspective, composition, etc, have not improved. It shows a remarkable amount of disrespect to the readers and companies that hire him that he doesn't even care to try to improve himself (for all his millions, it would have killed him to have taken a 50 dollar anatomy course, or read an anatomy book in 20 years?)

He's a disgrace to the industry, and to any self-respecting artist or writer. Yet his ego is so over-inflated, he can't even see how detrimental he is to the industry. I don't care if he wants to create his own crap. I'll be honest, I've seen worse. Yet even in most of those worse attempts, there was a genuine attempt to craft a story. (Just look at Kid Intense. He has a genuine affection for the industry, a legitimate enthusiasm and respect. Even if his skills are well, not up to snuff.) But when other companies start hiring him to fuck with their creations, that's just ridiculous. They should be ashamed, because you know Rob certainly isn't.

1. Just to clarify, we are talking about the new 52 books that he worked on? If so how did he put those creators out of work, he doesn't have control over those books, someone in editorial does. Which means that they felt that those books were not meeting the bottom line expected and got Liefeld in to shake things up. It doesn't matter what the quality of the books are, it matters how well they sell. Now the question is that that intitial change of guard could get filed under what we have been talking about is a very good one.

2. Again, this is editorial saying that these books are not selling what they need to. Thus, they were removed from the project and perhaps moved to another book or were not given another assignment. It's freelance work, it happens all the time. But to put this on Liefeld because he took over for the teams is silly, he was just told to handle these books and get them to where DC wanted them. As for how he handled it, well he just does not care. Which frankly, is probably a very good place to be. He felt creatively stifled at DC and wants to complain about it and it is his right as an American citizen to do that. How he's handling it is up to debate, personally I'm loving it. Especially when the war he had with Snyder. That was awesome.

3. Now how do you know that he has no respect for anyone else in the industry? Sure he's gotten into twitter wars over people who disagreed or had issue with what he said. But he's never personally attacked anyone that we have seen on his public twitter feed. Who knows what might be going on the private line but whatever. And more importantly, that sounds like the company's problem. Not mine or anyone's elses. If you don't like the new direction the book is taking, drop the book, its a whatever. Just like when those initial teams were removed from the books. They're freelancers, that happens sometimes, you might be working on a book for DC, it gets cancelled, and you never get a job again. Welcome to comics.

As for his work, well it sells, so that means someone is digging it and that all subjective anyway but alright I'll play. I don't really know his writing so I cannot really attest to that but I will talk to his artistic capability.

So his work sucks, its all missing feet, because feet are important suddenly. If you don't have feet in your picture, oh my god, its an atrocity to the universe. However this is fine:

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/covers/previews/2007/june/xmen200bachalo.jpg

Or this because its so realistic and pays attention to the fine details of anatomy:

http://feministsforchoice.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Manga.png

http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/Dragon-Ball-Z-dragon-ball-z-538444_1024_768.jpg

http://bloody-disgusting.com/photosizer/upload/30days2.jpg

http://www.planetebd.com/static/interviews/btemplesmith_pla8.jpg

Say what will about the art but to me, none of this si staying strictly adhere to human anatomy. So to hate on some artist because his anatomy isn't photo realistic is nonsense. Its a hyper stylized style, hate it all you want, its a whatever, but to say that he is the worst artist who's ever i stretching things.

And don't give me that "look at his 90s stuff, man" either, you don't know what the offices were during that period or what the quality control on books and the pressure to produce books were which would no doubt affect the end product, especially on the top selling books that liefeld was working on.

Colby
08-26-2012, 04:55 AM
Rob attacked Scott Snyder on Twitter today, telling him Batman doesn't sell well because of his writing, rather it's because it is simply a Batman title.

Because it is, sure his writing helps to keep readers invested in the book. But no matter who put in that spot, its always just do better than a lot of the other books on the line because it is a batman book. And Batman as a corporate entity sells more than a lot more than most of the other corporate entities that is owned by DC. Its why he has like ten books or whatever.

Mwynn
08-26-2012, 09:15 AM
http://b.vimeocdn.com/ps/198/815/1988155_300.jpg

Ebony Warrior
08-26-2012, 12:21 PM
So Rob sells. One of his claims (rants) is that the sales of his titles went up.
February ranking (before Rob).
Deathstroke - 104
Hawkman - 103
Grifter - 126

July ranking
Deathstroke - 127
Hawkman - 141
Grifter - 156

His books might of spiked for one issue, like many creator changes do, but the reality is, he is not the draw he use to be. He had 4 books with the new DC and all 4 tanked. It was a gamble to put him on the books, they were failing any way. And if you say they are all lower tear characters that no one reads anyway, let me direct you to Aquaman, numerous cancellation, now one of the top books - because of it's creative team.

Ebony Warrior
08-26-2012, 12:29 PM
Oh, and Rob does have an important place in comics: If he can make it in to the field, then anyone can.

Justice41
08-26-2012, 04:40 PM
Rob attacked Scott Snyder on Twitter today, telling him Batman doesn't sell well because of his writing, rather it's because it is simply a Batman title.

Could be, How was the writers track record before? Heh Funny, of all comics characters Batman is the only character I don't care who draws. As long as it's Batman without the stupid sidekicks and just detective comics the artist to me is not important, the story is. Take Tim Sale. Horrible artist to me but when they put out those Halloween books I bought them because I expected a good read not good artwork. And don't bother bugging me about Sale, I don't care what anyone thinks, His stuff is ugly. he does know how to tell a story but it's still ugly artwork. Aside from the Halloween books I wouldn't wipe my ass with Tim Sale art.

Sage
08-26-2012, 05:41 PM
Oh, and Rob does have an important place in comics: If he can make it in to the field, then anyone can.

I've always said he is the J.Lo of comics.

Glad to see someone agrees. :har:

Sean C
08-26-2012, 06:05 PM
I'll say the same thing I said on another forum.

The editors made all kinds of crazy notes that affected the books he produced. I can only imagine...

"The anatomy seems...off."

"Why is Hawkman suddenly ten feet tall every other page?"

"You've been inking in your car again, haven't you? It shows in the work, and in the fact you rear-ended Brian Azzerello's car in the parking lot. Please redo these pages, and please return Brian's messages. He's pretty pissed."

"Rob, seriously, where the hell are the feet? We already talked about this!"

Brutal work conditions. It's gettin' so a guy can't mail it in anymore.

ponyrl
08-26-2012, 06:06 PM
Again, ya'll ain't reading da lines, Scatman Brothers.

Scatman "Crothers".

Respect his gangsta.

Sage
08-26-2012, 06:24 PM
I'll say the same thing I said on another forum.

The editors made all kinds of crazy notes that affected the books he produced. I can only imagine...

"The anatomy seems...off."

"Why is Hawkman suddenly ten feet tall every other page?"

"You've been inking in your car again, haven't you? It shows in the work, and in the fact you rear-ended Brian Azzerello's car in the parking lot. Please redo these pages, and please return Brian's messages. He's pretty pissed."

"Rob, seriously, where the hell are the feet? We already talked about this!"

Brutal work conditions. It's gettin' so a guy can't mail it in anymore.

What you don't like the classic Rob man boobs?

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/69929/2160698-liefeld_boobs.jpg

:p

Sean C
08-26-2012, 08:05 PM
What you don't like the classic Rob man boobs?

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/69929/2160698-liefeld_boobs.jpg

:p

Even Optimus Prime's chest doesn't stick out like that. Have you ever seen his Fantastic Four work, with the Hulk Mr. Fantastic? Ugh.

Sage
08-26-2012, 10:02 PM
Even Optimus Prime's chest doesn't stick out like that. Have you ever seen his Fantastic Four work, with the Hulk Mr. Fantastic? Ugh.

Yeah I don't see what the big deal is about his work either.

Biofungus
08-26-2012, 10:07 PM
1. Just to clarify, we are talking about the new 52 books that he worked on? If so how did he put those creators out of work, he doesn't have control over those books, someone in editorial does. Which means that they felt that those books were not meeting the bottom line expected and got Liefeld in to shake things up. It doesn't matter what the quality of the books are, it matters how well they sell. Now the question is that that intitial change of guard could get filed under what we have been talking about is a very good one.

It was Liefeld who got the people working on those books removed. He was supposed to be instated for 'creative control' over the books. He wasn't assigned control to actually dump the entire creative teams, yet he did. Liefeld's choice, not the editors.


2. Again, this is editorial saying that these books are not selling what they need to. Thus, they were removed from the project and perhaps moved to another book or were not given another assignment. It's freelance work, it happens all the time. But to put this on Liefeld because he took over for the teams is silly, he was just told to handle these books and get them to where DC wanted them. As for how he handled it, well he just does not care. Which frankly, is probably a very good place to be. He felt creatively stifled at DC and wants to complain about it and it is his right as an American citizen to do that. How he's handling it is up to debate, personally I'm loving it. Especially when the war he had with Snyder. That was awesome.

It's not just DC. It's also Marvel (Heroes Reborn) and even on his own titles. He's a total prima donna.

3. Now how do you know that he has no respect for anyone else in the industry? Sure he's gotten into twitter wars over people who disagreed or had issue with what he said. But he's never personally attacked anyone that we have seen on his public twitter feed.

Calling the new team on Deadpool (Brian Posehn, Gerry Duggan and Tony Moore) "third rate talent" (and the allusion that most past creators on the property as well) isn't personally attacking them? Meanwhile, virtually every writer and artist who've handled Deadpool since Liefeld left have been WAY more talented than Rob.

When Batman is one of the well received of the DCnU titles, with glowing praises almost unanimously for Snyder and Capullo, yet he credits the sales merely to the fact that it's a Batman title? That's not a personal attack?

Liefeld tracing other artists work isn't disrespectful?

Liefeld storming out in a hissy fit most of the projects (his own and for other companies) isn't disrespectful?


Who knows what might be going on the private line but whatever. And more importantly, that sounds like the company's problem. Not mine or anyone's elses. If you don't like the new direction the book is taking, drop the book, its a whatever. Just like when those initial teams were removed from the books. They're freelancers, that happens sometimes, you might be working on a book for DC, it gets cancelled, and you never get a job again. Welcome to comics.

Except that it's not private. He posts his complaints and the other people involved post what happened (and when it's usually Rob's word vs. several co-oberative accounts...)


As for his work, well it sells, so that means someone is digging it and that all subjective anyway but alright I'll play. I don't really know his writing so I cannot really attest to that but I will talk to his artistic capability.

Firstly, it's the controversy that sells. Most of his recent projects (including Hawk and Dove) have dropped off significantly after the first couple of issues because people weren't "digging it". Many of the properties/projects he starts, either die off quickly, or get passed on to someone else where they often start doing *better* than when he was working on it.


So his work sucks, its all missing feet, because feet are important suddenly. If you don't have feet in your picture, oh my god, its an atrocity to the universe. However this is fine:

Really? Did you even bother to read what I said? I said the only thing he HAS slightly improved were his feet. No, feet aren't so important. But anatomy, perspective, composition, storytelling ARE, and he significantly lacks ALL of those. Nor has he made any efforts to improve himself in any of those categories.

Oh, and the, "just because other people do it" argument is a huge load of bullhonkey. Doesn't make it right that others do it, doesn't make it right that he does it. So stop playing double standards.

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/covers/previews/2007/june/xmen200bachalo.jpg

Or this because its so realistic and pays attention to the fine details of anatomy:

http://feministsforchoice.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Manga.png

http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/Dragon-Ball-Z-dragon-ball-z-538444_1024_768.jpg

http://bloody-disgusting.com/photosizer/upload/30days2.jpg

http://www.planetebd.com/static/interviews/btemplesmith_pla8.jpg


There's a big difference between "style" and plain just not knowing the basics.

That Bachalo is from 2007. Look at his earlier work. He clearly has a much better grasp of anatomy, perspective, et al. But that 2007 piece is more stylized. At least he knows how the basics work.


Say what will about the art but to me, none of this si staying strictly adhere to human anatomy. So to hate on some artist because his anatomy isn't photo realistic is nonsense. Its a hyper stylized style, hate it all you want, its a whatever, but to say that he is the worst artist who's ever i stretching things.

How much is Liefeld paying you? Seriously. His art is NOT "hyper stylized". It's shear LAZINESS. It always has been. You have to know the basics before you can successfully "stylize".


And don't give me that "look at his 90s stuff, man" either, you don't know what the offices were during that period or what the quality control on books and the pressure to produce books were which would no doubt affect the end product, especially on the top selling books that liefeld was working on.

His 90's stuff is almost identical to his current stuff.

CHWolf
08-26-2012, 11:54 PM
Just realized. Rob was on second-rate (at best) characters. He's probably jealous as shit he wasn't on Batman himself.

Ebony Warrior
08-27-2012, 01:07 AM
It was Liefeld who got the people working on those books removed. He was supposed to be instated for 'creative control' over the books. He wasn't assigned control to actually dump the entire creative teams, yet he did. Liefeld's choice, not the editors.



It's not just DC. It's also Marvel (Heroes Reborn) and even on his own titles. He's a total prima donna.


Calling the new team on Deadpool (Brian Posehn, Gerry Duggan and Tony Moore) "third rate talent" (and the allusion that most past creators on the property as well) isn't personally attacking them? Meanwhile, virtually every writer and artist who've handled Deadpool since Liefeld left have been WAY more talented than Rob.

When Batman is one of the well received of the DCnU titles, with glowing praises almost unanimously for Snyder and Capullo, yet he credits the sales merely to the fact that it's a Batman title? That's not a personal attack?

Liefeld tracing other artists work isn't disrespectful?

Liefeld storming out in a hissy fit most of the projects (his own and for other companies) isn't disrespectful?



Except that it's not private. He posts his complaints and the other people involved post what happened (and when it's usually Rob's word vs. several co-oberative accounts...)



Firstly, it's the controversy that sells. Most of his recent projects (including Hawk and Dove) have dropped off significantly after the first couple of issues because people weren't "digging it". Many of the properties/projects he starts, either die off quickly, or get passed on to someone else where they often start doing *better* than when he was working on it.



Really? Did you even bother to read what I said? I said the only thing he HAS slightly improved were his feet. No, feet aren't so important. But anatomy, perspective, composition, storytelling ARE, and he significantly lacks ALL of those. Nor has he made any efforts to improve himself in any of those categories.

Oh, and the, "just because other people do it" argument is a huge load of bullhonkey. Doesn't make it right that others do it, doesn't make it right that he does it. So stop playing double standards.


There's a big difference between "style" and plain just not knowing the basics.

That Bachalo is from 2007. Look at his earlier work. He clearly has a much better grasp of anatomy, perspective, et al. But that 2007 piece is more stylized. At least he knows how the basics work.



How much is Liefeld paying you? Seriously. His art is NOT "hyper stylized". It's shear LAZINESS. It always has been. You have to know the basics before you can successfully "stylize".



His 90's stuff is almost identical to his current stuff.

In agreement of all of this.

I have defended Rob in the past (him not his art), but then I actually started reading about him and his art and his practices. Go to Wikepedia and follow some of the links at the bottom of his bio.

Here's some samples, pretty insightful:

http://www.peterdavid.net/2012/02/13/the-ed-wood-of-comics/comment-page-1/

http://www.peterdavid.net/2010/08/23/giving-credit-where-credit-is-due-part-2/

Biofungus
08-27-2012, 03:35 AM
I haven't even gotten into the part where he didn't pay people working for him. That's not disrespectful?

Justice41
08-27-2012, 03:55 AM
meh, what happens to others isn't any of my bidness unless I personally know em

Biofungus
08-27-2012, 05:11 AM
meh, what happens to others isn't any of my bidness unless I personally know em
What if you did know someone who Rob screwed over?

Justice41
08-27-2012, 10:55 AM
Mean and nasty as I am I'd be ripping him a new one the same way I went after Greg Land and Dave Finch and The guy who does Kabuki. Tore into them over at Newsarama and they actually tried to argue with me until all the swipes and traced artwork was posted. Hell even Mike Choi jumped in to defend The Kabuki guy and had to back down, Another artist also came to David Macks(finally remembered his name) defense but had to back off after we started posting the direct traces he did for a book called Echo where he traced Adam Hughes' work from Gen-13 Ordinary Heroes. I also went after Pat Lee when he screwed over a person I sorta knew at the time, Robin Riggs over non-payment for inking work. Got into it with the scumbag who ran Crossgen into the ground and didn't pay Riggs then either. I was also an acquaintance of Rick Magyar who got screwed by Crossgen and called them on that. Newsarama was the place to beat up creators when they done wrong.
Just understand the art field no matter which sector, is a harsh and brutal back stabbing get as much cash as you can field. Commercial art is a disposable art. Just watch any of those stupid chick shows on Bravo about make-up or fashion design. Those people are crazy but they are in the same field we are. What goes on with them goes on within every sector of art.
To me Jim Lee is the problem over at DC. When I started doing architectural renderings my boss was an artist, Artists tend to be lousy business people or all comic artists would have their own books on the shelves. My Boss was like a lot of artists, kinda scatter brained. He wanted this, changed his mind, then wanted that, then something colorful caught his eye or something shiny or this or that. Money got spent on whims. I can almost bet that's how it is in many art houses. I just gotta hunch Lee is the same way, to a lesser extent at DC. Liefeld is Liefeld, Jim Lee knows Liefeld and his History. Blame Liefeld if you want, but to me he's just a painter or plumber or handy man or adventure capitalist you hired to fix a problem. New creatives bring new ideas and sometimes people gotta go so the implementation of that new creatives ideas goes smoothly. May not work may do gangbusters. But that's business. Ever watch Bar Rescue or Hotel Rescue? Same concept.

Ebony Warrior
08-27-2012, 01:28 PM
OK , so you can't blame him for replacing people and so on, because he was brought in by higher ups - say Jim Lee for example. But from that point on, Trying to get every editor he worked with fired, dissing on fellow artists (Clarke) calling him a hack, dumping on writers, senior deitors of other companies - all of wich were the problem, not him. In his mind his books went up in sales (they didn't - well, maybe one issue). The man is a complete unprofessional, prone to having hissy fits, cheating other creators and companies so in some respects Biofungus is right. People lost there jobs because of his primadona mindset - and really all for nothing, the books he so called saved are still on the verge of being cancelled.
Glad i have my full time art job and only have to deal with one primadona - me :)

Bishop
08-27-2012, 02:30 PM
I truly don't get his attitude. I've seen him on Twitter just totally rip into and tear down people that have just recently publicly stood up for him. Scott Snyder is the most recent example. I had just read Scott's post saying he was a supporter of Rob when I saw Rob's post blasting Snyder. The guy certainly has a penchant for burning bridges. Prima Donna is a perfect description. That or spoiled brat.

Justice41
08-27-2012, 06:26 PM
Like i said, This field is filled with Prima Donna's, Actors and Musicians are artists right, the biggest Prima Donna's. Liefeld could not fire anyone unless he had authority. How he did it and the aftermath is irrelevant.

DiabloCodySux
08-27-2012, 10:31 PM
"Scatman "Crothers".

Respect his gangsta."

I do. I revere the man. I love Bakshi but I think Scatman OWNED THE MOVIE, even the live-action segments. But people who don't know "The Devil made me do it!" and "I'm COMIN' , 'Lizabeth!" or believe Pryor's original vinyl records should never have been broken or refused sale (since they are holy relics) gets "Scatman Brothers" from me. Meaning I see them as Tracy Morgan compared to Ben Vereen.

Lovecraft13
08-27-2012, 11:24 PM
I wish the 52 DC Reboot quit.

ponyrl
08-28-2012, 06:51 PM
"Scatman "Crothers".

Respect his gangsta."

I do. I revere the man. I love Bakshi but I think Scatman OWNED THE MOVIE, even the live-action segments. But people who don't know "The Devil made me do it!" and "I'm COMIN' , 'Lizabeth!" or believe Pryor's original vinyl records should never have been broken or refused sale (since they are holy relics) gets "Scatman Brothers" from me. Meaning I see them as Tracy Morgan compared to Ben Vereen.
Nice! :)

Mark Bertolini
08-30-2012, 05:13 PM
Rob Liefeld is what's wrong with comics. Untalented, full of himself, and a complete dick. It's fine to be unhappy with where you work, but to go out blasting guys for no reason is a dick move, bottom line.

Talking shit about Scott Snyder, taking shots at Tom Brevoort (calling him fat? Seriously, what, is he in third grade?) after the man said "no" when asked if there would be Marvel work for Rob.

Putting aside the fact that he has not tried to become a better artist in 20 years in the industry, putting aside the fact that he phones all his work in and has for about 15 of those 20 years. Put aside that stuff, and Liefeld's attitude is fucking pathetic. My kids are 8 and 5, if they acted that way, man, they'd catch a smack.

Justice41
08-30-2012, 07:12 PM
Gotta love how people conflate rumors and anecdotal stories into truth and then pass on or argue those"Truths" as truths. None of us knows dick about anything that went on. Give up the silly arguments. Like or dislike but at least do it based on actual person to person experience.

CHWolf
08-30-2012, 07:19 PM
You realize we're watching Rob do all of that with our own eyes, right?

Talking shit on the internet using his official Twitter account, and phoning in crappy work in the books we can pick up on the shelf...

Justice41
08-30-2012, 07:57 PM
Means squat. Context is key.

CHWolf
08-30-2012, 10:41 PM
Said the nextdoor neighbor of the wife-beater.

:D


Meaning - some things don't need nuanced detail to understand. Liefeld is a dickhat, magical all-explaining "context" or no.


I'd venture to say, however, that the situation is pretty well-understood anyway.

Justice41
08-31-2012, 12:44 AM
Eh, This is why you don't jump into domestic disputes. As far as the warring parties are concerned you are the enemy and they may turn on you as you try to help. If that's how the neighbors get off, not my bidness.
Frankly if a grown man or grown woman allows themselves to be abused that's on them. I look at it the same as doing drugs or drinking.
Abusing a child or animal well that's way out of line and something must be done. Grown ups make choices.
Taking the side of everyone else who's against Liefeld is cowardly in my view. It's easy and cowardly. I side with no one I don't know personally, but i will argue the cowardly about why they feel the need to jump into something that has nothing to do with them. Hell it's like watching a fight and taking cheap shots at the person on the ground when they can't defend themselves or even know who's hitting them. Just cowardly. Let the people directly involved duke it out.
You guys have zip zero clue as to why they are beefing what was said when it was said about what why when where in what context said directly or rumored or behind ones back or anything outside of a few messages and so-called news sites reports which are just as biased as the real news outlets.
The man is where he is because he was where he needed to be when he needed to be there just like a lot of other famous people with questionable talents.
Don't hate. Bitterness is never a good thing it just builds up in bile and makes life miserable.

Justice41
08-31-2012, 12:48 AM
Oh an a lot of you remind me of old mothers. Ever notice how mothers always remind you or tell anyone in earshot about the naughty crap you did as a child? It's like this with a lot of you. Don't be like old mothers, always dredging up the past to find some way to embarrass their grown up kids.

CHWolf
08-31-2012, 01:10 AM
Taking the side of everyone else who's against Liefeld is cowardly in my view. It's easy and cowardly.

Hey, everyone's entitled to their view. I'm not going to personally smear you for yours.


Don't hate. Bitterness is never a good thing it just builds up in bile and makes life miserable.

What have you done with Roy?

(Not that I'm saying to let him go.)

Justice41
08-31-2012, 03:50 AM
It's a cowardly way to do things. Being honest isn't a smear.

CHWolf
08-31-2012, 01:24 PM
You're the last honest man amid a sea of cowards. Yup, you're the messiah of truth. Congrats.

Honestly, that's just you working backward from your opinion to the justification.

I could just as easily say you're the coward, taking the cowardly position of "Please don't express your opinion, guys..."

What's more cowardly than trying to stop everyone else from giving opinions different from yours?


But of course, that's just an example of how easy it is to pull that crap. :P

Justice41
08-31-2012, 01:42 PM
Opinions based on nothing are worth as much

CHWolf
08-31-2012, 03:36 PM
Opinions based on nothing are worth as much

What is this opinion based on?

Justice41
08-31-2012, 06:44 PM
What's your question based on?

CHWolf
08-31-2012, 08:30 PM
The obvious lack of anything to back up your opinion other than "how you feel", which is exactly the same backing everyone else has when discussing Mr. L.

Now, what's your opinion based on? :)

Justice41
08-31-2012, 10:47 PM
It's not an opinion. Ever here the saying, nothing from nothing equals nothing?

CHWolf
08-31-2012, 10:58 PM
Everyone discussing a creator's public meltdown has an opinion based on nothing - and that's not an opinion, it's a fact because nothing from nothing leaves nothing...

Need a bucket for all that bullshit?

Moonrider
09-01-2012, 02:46 PM
Right now for all we know whatever the things Liefeld and other writers said on Twitter could be just some elaborate marketing ploy and we fell for it by discussing shit about... Well, nothing.

CHWolf
09-01-2012, 03:12 PM
"All this stuff is shitty, check it out?"

Hell, reverse psychology. :D

bob281
09-01-2012, 07:03 PM
I finally figured out why Liefeld is hated so much.Many wanna be artist just know deep down in there hearts they can draw better than Liefeld.Its true they can.They can draw better anatomy perspective rendering.How can he be such a success being such a bad artist?But when it comes to energy and excitement alot of the stuff I see in comics and on art sites are just duds.Much of it is just sillouettes the outline of the characters body to the point it's cartoony.Instead of hating this guy figure out why his art resonates with people and learn from him.Hate him or love him the bastard is succesful.Comics is an entertainment medium if it entertains then it can work.He will work for DC and he will work for Marvel again.Because somebody finds his artwork to be entertaining.

Justice41
09-02-2012, 12:44 AM
Everyone discussing a creator's public meltdown has an opinion based on nothing - and that's not an opinion, it's a fact because nothing from nothing leaves nothing...

Need a bucket for all that bullshit?

Really, and why do you follow Rob on Twatter? Looking to be offended? Starting to sound a wee bit pathetic, that another persons going's on is more important than your own shit.
Sound like those worthless pieces of shit in Occupy Obama's ass who think the people who make money stole it. You aren't in comics(if that's what you want to do) because you suck, not because Rob is in Comics. Life isn't a zero sum gain. Stop sucking and maybe you too can get work(not you specifically CHW, just in general) in comics. Every time I get a new sketch card set I have to do research on characters and costumes and it's incredible how many new artists work at DC and Marvel who are from either overseas or from South America. Maybe ya'll can blame the outsourcing of pencil work from M & DC for why ya'll aint in comics.
Getting Pathetic guys.

Justice41
09-02-2012, 01:04 AM
I finally figured out why Liefeld is hated so much.Many wanna be artist just know deep down in there hearts they can draw better than Liefeld.Its true they can.They can draw better anatomy perspective rendering.How can he be such a success being such a bad artist?But when it comes to energy and excitement alot of the stuff I see in comics and on art sites are just duds.Much of it is just sillouettes the outline of the characters body to the point it's cartoony.Instead of hating this guy figure out why his art resonates with people and learn from him.Hate him or love him the bastard is succesful.Comics is an entertainment medium if it entertains then it can work.He will work for DC and he will work for Marvel again.Because somebody finds his artwork to be entertaining.

Dismiss all the garbage people make up based on rumors based on second hand info from a drunk who saw rob in those 501 commercials. What you have left is Rob's art.
Now the biggest thing to remember was why kids liked Robs art. It looked attainable It looked very similar to the scribbles and scrawls they did in their sketchbooks or notepads. Rob's Q score was high because of that.
Lets break down the top 4 artists of that time.
Jim Lee - Stuff was epic and full of life and adventure.
McFarlane - Creepy cool stuff.
Silvestri - Moody
Liefeld - cartoony action crazy stuff for the sake of being crazy.
Each of these artists still does the same thing essentially so why no hate for all of them.
McFarlanes art never grew, Jim Lee's stuff is essentially the same, Silvestri's has morphed a bit but basically the same, Liefelds rendering and designs have changed a bit but essentially the same.
What's changed in the minds of the fans when it comes to Liefeld? I'd say the people who as kids that liked his stuff have grown up and like a lot of grown ups they start looking back at the stuff they once loved and tear it down. The others out their razzing Liefeld who weren't old enough to know the Liefeld excitement are just klingons. Just dingleberries without any real opinion but who like to glom onto negative controversies.
I was never into Rob's stuff, Didn't buy into the hype, never bought his books. His art was not up to the art I grew up with like Buscema, Byrne, Adams, Redondo, Frazetta, Boris, etc,etc. I was always about draftsmanship and proper rendering and perspective drawings as well as use of light and dark and shade and space so Rob's art wasn't for me. But I could tell why younger kids liked it and even got confirmation when I kept hearing kids saying that Rob's stuff was like their drawings when I went to con's or comics shops.
What did Harvey Dent say in the Dark Knight about being the hero and staying around long enough to become the Villain? That's Liefeld.

Moonrider
09-02-2012, 01:06 AM
Really, and why do you follow Rob on Twatter? Looking to be offended? Starting to sound a wee bit pathetic, that another persons going's on is more important than your own shit.

I follow Rob on Twitter. Why? Because I'm a firm believer that not every asshole is an asshole at heart. The same way I think about you, really. :)
If I shut you or Rob Liefeld down, I'll miss my chance to actually get to know you both for what you really are.

Justice41
09-02-2012, 01:08 AM
Waste of time Moony. Get about your own life. living vicariously is a waste of time.

CHWolf
09-02-2012, 02:04 AM
You have no idea what you're talking about. It's pretty clear.

The fact you think anything is based on rumors we've heard from someone proves it.

I'm not saying you have to learn what a Twitter is or how this newfangled Faceybook works, but maybe stop just bullshitting about things you have no clue about...

Maybe?

bob281
09-02-2012, 02:27 AM
Dismiss all the garbage people make up based on rumors based on second hand info from a drunk who saw rob in those 501 commercials. What you have left is Rob's art.
Now the biggest thing to remember was why kids liked Robs art. It looked attainable It looked very similar to the scribbles and scrawls they did in their sketchbooks or notepads. Rob's Q score was high because of that.
Lets break down the top 4 artists of that time.
Jim Lee - Stuff was epic and full of life and adventure.
McFarlane - Creepy cool stuff.
Silvestri - Moody
Liefeld - cartoony action crazy stuff for the sake of being crazy.
Each of these artists still does the same thing essentially so why no hate for all of them.
McFarlanes art never grew, Jim Lee's stuff is essentially the same, Silvestri's has morphed a bit but basically the same, Liefelds rendering and designs have changed a bit but essentially the same.
What's changed in the minds of the fans when it comes to Liefeld? I'd say the people who as kids that liked his stuff have grown up and like a lot of grown ups they start looking back at the stuff they once loved and tear it down. The others out their razzing Liefeld who weren't old enough to know the Liefeld excitement are just klingons. Just dingleberries without any real opinion but who like to glom onto negative controversies.
I was never into Rob's stuff, Didn't buy into the hype, never bought his books. His art was not up to the art I grew up with like Buscema, Byrne, Adams, Redondo, Frazetta, Boris, etc,etc. I was always about draftsmanship and proper rendering and perspective drawings as well as use of light and dark and shade and space so Rob's art wasn't for me. But I could tell why younger kids liked it and even got confirmation when I kept hearing kids saying that Rob's stuff was like their drawings when I went to con's or comics shops.
What did Harvey Dent say in the Dark Knight about being the hero and staying around long enough to become the Villain? That's Liefeld.
True I agree with everything you said.But I also believe there are some closet Liefeld fans who are still buying his sh@T.If his art did'nt sell the big 2 would not f@ck with him.That sh!t is making money thats why Liefeld keeps coming back.He must be good for buisness not just starting crap on the net.

Justice41
09-02-2012, 02:54 PM
True I agree with everything you said.But I also believe there are some closet Liefeld fans who are still buying his sh@T.If his art did'nt sell the big 2 would not f@ck with him.That sh!t is making money thats why Liefeld keeps coming back.He must be good for buisness not just starting crap on the net.

Oh he has his fans. When a person is being trashed by a seeming majority, people tend to polarize on opposites. Those who didn't care about his art now hate the man and hate everything about him. Case in point Wolfie up there who has an unreasonable hate for the guy. A person he's never met or spent any time around Liefeld, yet knows everything about him and believes every bit of rumored dirt about him. Then you have the guys over at Liefelds forum, who gush over him and will stand up for him no matter what. A guy like that is a possible gold mine.

CHWolf
09-02-2012, 05:43 PM
It's funny you think I "hate the guy". I'm just saying he's a douche - like you. Doesn't mean I hate you, it's just that you are in fact a douche. If I say it's raining today, it doesn't mean I hate clouds. I'm stating a fact of nature.

I also never said nor acted like I know everything about him.

Also, nothing I'm talking about is based on any sort of rumor - which I keep telling you, so maybe read what you're bitching about.


This is a recurring theme with you. It's like your brain is on a constant loop. Your knowledge on the matter is absolute zero, and you keep trying to divide by it.

The Dag
09-02-2012, 06:12 PM
It's funny you think I "hate the guy". I'm just saying he's a douche - like you. Doesn't mean I hate you, it's just that you are in fact a douche. If I say it's raining today, it doesn't mean I hate clouds. I'm stating a fact of nature.

I also never said nor acted like I know everything about him.

Also, nothing I'm talking about is based on any sort of rumor - which I keep telling you, so maybe read what you're bitching about.


This is a recurring theme with you. It's like your brain is on a constant loop. Your knowledge on the matter is absolute zero, and you keep trying to divide by it.

why do you reply to him?

CHWolf
09-02-2012, 06:28 PM
Bored.

Justice41
09-02-2012, 07:00 PM
He wants so badly to be right that's why. i

Justice41
09-02-2012, 07:03 PM
It's funny you think I "hate the guy". I'm just saying he's a douche - like you. Doesn't mean I hate you, it's just that you are in fact a douche. If I say it's raining today, it doesn't mean I hate clouds. I'm stating a fact of nature.

I also never said nor acted like I know everything about him.

Also, nothing I'm talking about is based on any sort of rumor - which I keep telling you, so maybe read what you're bitching about.


This is a recurring theme with you. It's like your brain is on a constant loop. Your knowledge on the matter is absolute zero, and you keep trying to divide by it.

It's all hate man, You hate a person you don't even know. You know nothing. Your opinions are based on others opinions which means nothing. Go to Liefelds forum and join and ask the man directly. Don't take the cowardly way out like most Liefeld haters.

CHWolf
09-02-2012, 07:05 PM
He wants so badly to be right that's why. i

It's not a matter of "want", I'm right. You think we're all talking about rumors we heard from someone, and that's proof enough. At this point, I'm poking you with a stick and watching you froth.

i


It's all hate man, You hate a person you don't even know. You know nothing. Your opinions are based on others opinions which means nothing. Go to Liefelds forum and join and ask the man directly. Don't take the cowardly way out like most Liefeld haters.

Nah, you don't get to dictate how others feel, no matter how much of a God among men you think you are.

You just said my opinions are based on others' opinions.

You just said I should go see what Liefeld has to say directly.


Learn to fucking read. I am basing my opinion on Liefeld's official account on Twitter. His own words. His statements. Directly from him. Twitter is a site where people post their own words, and this is all based on Liefeld's official statements on his official account. WHICH I REPLIED TO DIRECTLY TO HIM ON THIS SITE HE WAS DIRECTLY POSTING ON WITH HIS OFFICIAL ACCOUNT. PLEASE NOTICE THESE WORDS.

Can you take a second to stop and read?

Justice41
09-02-2012, 07:10 PM
Naw, Not worth my time, See how I did that? Just ignored everything you wrote. Besides how does what these people do put money in my pocket or pay my bills?

CHWolf
09-02-2012, 07:15 PM
Yes, I see you doing what you've been doing the entire time.

Next, point out the fact you can inhale oxygen and release carbon dioxide.

Justice41
09-02-2012, 07:17 PM
My friend you invest way too much in others business. Pathetic.

CHWolf
09-02-2012, 07:19 PM
Why are you so invested in my business?

Strike that. Why are you so thoroughly invested in a topic based entirely on something you claim to not care about at all?

Mm, yes. I'm pathetic for forming an opinion. You're a superstar for rabidly trying to tell me I'm wrong while at the same time claiming you're indifferent.

Justice41
09-02-2012, 07:22 PM
You are responding to me. Don't respond I go away. Kinda simple huh. So shut down twatter and FB and get a life Wolfie.

CHWolf
09-02-2012, 07:25 PM
Is it weird for you to go without the apathetic disinterest people always show for you?

Does it makes it impossible to convince yourself everyone's quiet because you "won"?

Justice41
09-02-2012, 07:26 PM
Can't help yourself huh? You have issues my friend deep seated control issues.

CHWolf
09-02-2012, 07:33 PM
How's the weather in hypocristan?

Bishop
09-02-2012, 07:50 PM
It's been a while since we've had a good Wolf versus Justice thread.

CHWolf
09-02-2012, 07:56 PM
Can't get anyone involved in community projects and can't seem to have legit discussions on the industry, so this seems as good as we'll get for recurring activity.

:B

Justice41
09-02-2012, 08:10 PM
Communism doesn't work. Unless you are in the biz or intend to go into the biz of comics there is nothing but verbal masturbation when discussing the biz. It's like when we was kids and we all got excited about making comics and started drawing and in an hour or so it all fizzled out. Those who want it badly don't sit around talking about the biz they work hard and make it into the biz. By The By Wolfie do you draw or write or color? I ask because over at Liefelds Forum someone posted a thread from Penciljack where, I'm guessing, the usual bashing of Rob was going on and wound up in a challenge to draw a page Liefeld had done years ago, better. Well guess what, Liefeld won as none of the so-called better artists could make their versions of Rob's page look or feel better. I think we need a challenge to all the Rob bashers to put up or shaddap. Find a page of Liefeld's , a sequential Page, and redraw it then get votes on who wins and include Liefeld in the polls.
Here's the Pencljack thread. Can't link to Liefelds forum as only members have access.
http://www.penciljack.com/forum/showthread.php?115795-Psf-You-think-you-re-better&highlight=better+then+liefeld

Bishop
09-02-2012, 08:13 PM
That's actually a pretty great idea.

Justice41
09-02-2012, 08:22 PM
Way back when I was seeking entry into comicdom, an artist told me the best thing to do is find some old comics and redraw a few pages in my style. Even though everything is on the page you still have to be creative in how you re-interpret the layouts and storytelling as the way it's done originally is usually the best.

CHWolf
09-02-2012, 08:28 PM
Communism doesn't work.

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/45/182863079_6159376428_z.jpg?zz=1

Tell us what you think about the youth of today, Gran'pa. Are us kids too into Twitty and Facebase and communism and rumors?

Justice41
09-02-2012, 08:43 PM
Did I hurt Umms fweeeelings Ahhhhhhhh

CHWolf
09-02-2012, 09:13 PM
Don't worry Gran'pa, soon you'll be with all the other cranky malcontents who don't understand "today's doodads".

It's called Shady Acres.

Here's a pamphlet... see? Someone just like you - playing horseshoes! Won't that be nice? You won't have to worry about the crazy communist rumor-mill and all those people in dark coats following you and sending messages through your victrola.

When they give you your pills, don't hide 'em under your pillow. They check!

CHWolf
09-02-2012, 09:26 PM
Here, I took the Liefeld Challenge, and even though I'm not an illustrator, I totally NAILED it. BOOYAH!

http://piclocker.com/images/231theliefeldchallenge.jpg (http://piclocker.com/view.php?filename=231theliefeldchallenge.jpg)


You can PM me the apology for doubting my skillz.

Justice41
09-02-2012, 10:19 PM
Ya gotta get it right Wolfie. I'm not a cracker, I'm black. Get with the program

CHWolf
09-02-2012, 10:25 PM
Hey, you actually made a correct statement in line with reality.

Was expecting "Ya gotta get it right Wolfie. I'm a marshmallow penguin with laser eyes and my own jetpack."


But anyway, I knew that, but any crazy old guy illustrates the point well enough. Always good to see you grasp at straws, though. Also funny that you think everyone should automatically know all about you, personally.

"Get with the program", everyone. I expect you all to be up on your Justice41 facts by this time tomorrow!

Justice41
09-02-2012, 10:27 PM
Resorting to cursing tsk tsk. Keep a civil tongue ya wanker.

Justice41
09-02-2012, 10:29 PM
Here, I took the Liefeld Challenge, and even though I'm not an illustrator, I totally NAILED it. BOOYAH!

http://piclocker.com/images/231theliefeldchallenge.jpg (http://piclocker.com/view.php?filename=231theliefeldchallenge.jpg)


You can PM me the apology for doubting my skillz.

So you can't draw for shit that's well established now, So what grounds do you have for bashing Liefelds art? You haven't a shred of skills with a pencil. So from now on any and all crits from you about anyones artwork is irrelevant.

Biofungus
09-02-2012, 10:29 PM
Way back when I was seeking entry into comicdom, an artist told me the best thing to do is find some old comics and redraw a few pages in my style. Even though everything is on the page you still have to be creative in how you re-interpret the layouts and storytelling as the way it's done originally is usually the best.
The reason for this is simple: The original had the original script to interpret from. When you interpret from someone elses page, it's like a copy of a copy. Of course it's going to be inferior.

Justice41
09-02-2012, 10:31 PM
Duh Bio we all know that. The artists told me that. he also told me the reason to use old artwork was to apply newer techniques as well as layouts and storytelling. Still if you have the chops you can improve on the pages.

CHWolf
09-02-2012, 10:53 PM
Resorting to cursing tsk tsk. Keep a civil tongue ya wanker.

This from the guy who keeps saying "Twatter" and "can't draw for shit".

Idiot. (http://www.digitalwebbing.com/forums/search.php?searchid=795267)

Dig the hole deeper, Roy. Dig the hole deeper. Wait, no that's about right. *shoves you in with all your festering bullshit*

So you can't draw for shit

I've said that a million times. Yawn.

So what grounds do you have for bashing Liefelds art?

The same grounds as anyone talking about anything ever.

The same grounds as you bashing Nolan, unless you're an expert film-maker you stupid, stupid little nonce.


You haven't a shred of skills with a pencil.

That's pretty clearly in pen. How is it you can be wrong about almost every detail of everything all the time? That has to be a mutant super-power.


So from now on any and all crits from you about anyones artwork is irrelevant.

And if we follow your boneheaded anti-logic, every crit from you about anything BUT artwork is irrelevant.

Which includes talking about Twitter and Facebook.

When was the last time you made a corporate social networking site?

Never?

Uh oh. You can't have a negative opinion about it, then.



You have to be the dumbest person I've ever argued with, and I've argued with unborn children. (To be fair, the kid started it.)

Justice41
09-02-2012, 11:17 PM
Understand, I'm all about escalation You hit with a club I take out a sledgehammer, you pull a gun I pull a M-16 etc. So you don't like me cursing don't start cursing towards me. Understand boy?
Cowardly little puss.

CHWolf
09-02-2012, 11:25 PM
Who said I didn't like you cursing? I don't give a fuck if you do it or not, and if you got that impression - hey - that's just your misfiring half-brain at work again.

But let's be honest. You DIDN'T get that impression, you're just in a constant free-falling state of trying to salvage your last dipshit comment with more dipshit comments to change what you meant.



See, to put it in simple visual terms you MIGHT understand...

This is the game you think you're playing:

♖♘♗♔♕♗♘♖
♙♙♙♙♙♙♙♙


♟♟♟♟♟♟♟♟
♜♞♝♛♚♝♞♜



This is the reality:

○○○○○○○○
○○○○○○○○


●●●●●●●●
●●●●●●●●



You're not taking out the M-16. You're the little preschooler running around with a super soaker, crying and whining when people don't "fall down" becuase you "killed 'em".

You're too cowardly to stick to anything you say, perpetually spewing "I meant" and "understand that" while trying to contort and twist others' words and motivations because you can't do battle on a fair playing field.

Yeah, you're the coward. Get something right sometime, will you?

Justice41
09-02-2012, 11:46 PM
You already got one thread locked Wolfboy.

CHWolf
09-02-2012, 11:48 PM
Justice knocks over lamp.

Justice points at other kid.

"HE DID IT."


Stay tuned for more "Digital Webbing Babies" on the Disney Channel.

The Dag
09-03-2012, 12:17 AM
Here, I took the Liefeld Challenge, and even though I'm not an illustrator, I totally NAILED it. BOOYAH!

http://piclocker.com/images/231theliefeldchallenge.jpg (http://piclocker.com/view.php?filename=231theliefeldchallenge.jpg)


You can PM me the apology for doubting my skillz.


lol cute.

CHWolf
09-03-2012, 12:32 AM
I wasn't sure about the legal ramifications, so that's Capt. Transylvania.

(C) 2012 Lousy Comics, LLC

Moonrider
09-03-2012, 12:41 AM
Waste of time Moony. Get about your own life. living vicariously is a waste of time.

Boy if I could get $1 for each time someone says that to me... :p

Oh now I want a Captain Transylvania comic real bad.

ponyrl
09-03-2012, 12:46 AM
Yo Wolf, you should go through all of Rob L.'s work and lampoon it in comic form like the above.

I tell ya, it'd be a new jumping off for a career, man. No joke. :)

CHWolf
09-03-2012, 12:50 AM
Well, every once in a while I could take a shot at something like that. I'm almost always up for stupid stuff people don't really want that much. :D

I guess... huh, that's a reply to both posts.

Sage
09-03-2012, 01:02 AM
Captain Transylvania reminded me of this. :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZr9mrrs30c&feature=related

CHWolf
09-03-2012, 01:25 AM
Eh...

http://piclocker.com/images/513captrans.jpg (http://piclocker.com/view.php?filename=513captrans.jpg)

Sage
09-03-2012, 01:47 AM
Did he barf out the kid or did he barf on the kid? :blink::blink::blink:

The Dag
09-03-2012, 01:52 AM
awesome

CHWolf
09-03-2012, 01:56 AM
Did he barf out the kid or did he barf on the kid? :blink::blink::blink:

On.

He's just not very good with kids.

Sage
09-03-2012, 02:09 AM
Ah okay. I need some SFX of the baby crying in panels 1 & 2, followed by a lightbulb over Captain Transylvania's head.

That will properly convey that he's trying to stop the Gremlin's incessant crying. :har:

ponyrl
09-03-2012, 03:19 AM
awesome
Indeed. :D

Biofungus
09-03-2012, 03:58 AM
Well, every once in a while I could take a shot at something like that. I'm almost always up for stupid stuff people don't really want that much. :D

I guess... huh, that's a reply to both posts.
What you should do is, take some of the more famous 'swipes' and do your own swipes of them.

CHWolf
09-03-2012, 03:59 AM
(More of this crummy shit here (http://sharkpunch.com/lousy-comics-strips). Start anywhere. It won't make any sense whichever way you go about it.)

And with that plug - Goodnight! :)


Edit: ooh-er

What you should do is, take some of the more famous 'swipes' and do your own swipes of them.

What's good about that is the famous chesty Cap cover is a swipe from his own previous work.

I smell Capt. Transylvania's boobs...

...

Boogh.

Moonrider
09-03-2012, 05:45 AM
What you should do is, take some of the more famous 'swipes' and do your own swipes of them.

Sweded comics. Nice concept.

Biofungus
09-03-2012, 07:12 AM
(More of this crummy shit here (http://sharkpunch.com/lousy-comics-strips). Start anywhere. It won't make any sense whichever way you go about it.)

And with that plug - Goodnight! :)


Edit: ooh-er



What's good about that is the famous chesty Cap cover is a swipe from his own previous work.

I smell Capt. Transylvania's boobs...

...

Boogh.
I'm not talking just Liefeld. I mean comics in general.

Rob Norton
09-03-2012, 10:38 AM
. I think we need a challenge to all the Rob bashers to put up or shaddap. Find a page of Liefeld's , a sequential Page, and redraw it then get votes on who wins and include Liefeld in the polls.
http://www.penciljack.com/forum/showthread.php?115795-Psf-You-think-you-re-better&highlight=better+then+liefeld

i would actually love to see you do this as well. not calling you out or anything...i would just like to see your art. seriously.

i want to try it to. someone shoulld just pick a page and we all do that ONE page. just my thoughts.

rob

Mwynn
09-03-2012, 10:52 AM
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a319/BringerOfStorms/Liefeld950.jpg

Does he have a muscle on his knee?

CHWolf
09-03-2012, 02:00 PM
This is where sinful super-heroes go after they die. "You liked leaping at people and killing them? Try it with a muscle on your knee! Forever! AH-HA-HA-HAAAAAA..."

Mwynn
09-03-2012, 04:11 PM
You can see his inner thigh on his left leg, how is that attached to his knee. Is this Shatterstar or the Frankenstein monster. The grenade spawned itself from one panel to the next.

Justice41
09-03-2012, 05:42 PM
i would actually love to see you do this as well. not calling you out or anything...i would just like to see your art. seriously.

i want to try it to. someone shoulld just pick a page and we all do that ONE page. just my thoughts.

rob

Naw, I'm not bashing the guy, so no reason for me to do this and I'm swamped with Sketch Cards to draw. It's just one set after de udder.

CHWolf
09-03-2012, 08:18 PM
Well, seeing as how you've bashed my work, redraw one of my strips.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

You've frowned at his rants, you've rolled your eyes at his tantrums. You've laughed at all of his nonsensical gibberish and you've applauded as he cleverly renames things!

Now YOU can...

Choose your own Justice41 reply!

"Well, seeing as how you've bashed my work, redraw one of my strips."

A: Not worth my time, bub.
B: Not worth my time, pal.
C: Not worth my time, son.
D: Not worth my time, guy.
E: Naw, udder budder da guy on Twatter karsadhianville budda. I has M-16 an not everybudda guddas my studda.
F: I'll put my six year old on it wolfie, You two are about at the same skill level. Though I must confess I have been teaching him how to draw.
G: Wolfie/Wolfboy/Wolfle/Waffle/Wiffle/Wolfwank/Wooly/Wendigo/Wolfwolf/Weeble

Moonrider
09-03-2012, 09:42 PM
Bwahahahahahahahahaha
CHWolf: DE ULTIMETE ANNOYER (it's liek annoying but noun)

Justice41: SPOILEER >> 41 is the capped max lvl. of emotional maturity (CHUCK NORRIS have lvl. infinity ON HIS BEARD ALONE)

Moonrider: Cheap potshooter :p

Justice41
09-03-2012, 10:14 PM
Well, seeing as how you've bashed my work, redraw one of my strips.

I'll put my six year old on it wolfie, You two are about at the same skill level. Though I must confess I have been teaching him how to draw.

CHWolf
09-03-2012, 10:39 PM
Keep insulting the artwork of someone who makes the shittiness of his drawing the main focal point.

I hate to say it, but how screwed up is this six-year-old going to be?

"Sorry, you're out."

"No I'm not."

"But I tagged you, you're out."

"Stop relying on rumors."

"..."

Justice41
09-03-2012, 11:41 PM
Ahh wolfie you have issues my friend, deep seated issues. Now you resort to attacking children. Sad sad sad little man. You have a micro penis don't you?

CHWolf
09-04-2012, 12:31 AM
Just when you can't get any cheaper, you out-cheap yourself with your cheap bullshit. :)

Now you're holding your kid in front of you as a human shield. Excellent mothering.

Yes, inferring that you're an idiot who can teach nothing is TOTALLY attacking children. Plus, Twatter is for Kardasians and that dadgum devil box in the living room is full of tiny people.

I want to say you're a throwback to the moronic pissant internet trolls of the 90s, but technically you don't use numbers in place of letters so I guess that's a bit far. (Call it Tw4tter next time and we'll have a lock.)



By the way... Why are you so interested in penis size and how deep something's seat is? <_<
(Cue Justice missing the point and obliviously explaining what "deep-seated" means.)


Edit: Ohhhh, NOW I see why you're pissed about this thread...

Not safe for work or anywhere people expect anatomical logic - http://images.cryhavok.org/d/13405-2/Dejah+Thoris+again+by+Justice41.jpg

Holy shit, Roy, why didn't you just say so?

Biofungus
09-04-2012, 01:22 AM
You can see his inner thigh on his left leg, how is that attached to his knee. Is this Shatterstar or the Frankenstein monster. The grenade spawned itself from one panel to the next.
Nah, the grenade was just hiding behind the pouch. But you had to go almost all the way around behind him to see it past pouchasaurus rex.

CHWolf
09-04-2012, 02:10 AM
When Liefeld is elderly and (really) quitting comics, he should pull a St. Elsewhere and reveal that all his works have taken place inside a pouch.

Duane Korslund
09-04-2012, 12:18 PM
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a319/BringerOfStorms/Liefeld950.jpg

Does he have a muscle on his knee?

I especially like his huge shin muscle....wait....what??? I CANNOT figure out that right leg...

LeisureSuit
09-04-2012, 01:11 PM
Glad to see this thread returning to something like the original subject matter.

ponyrl
09-04-2012, 01:48 PM
Communism doesn't work. Unless you are in the biz or intend to go into the biz of comics there is nothing but verbal masturbation when discussing the biz. It's like when we was kids and we all got excited about making comics and started drawing and in an hour or so it all fizzled out. Those who want it badly don't sit around talking about the biz they work hard and make it into the biz. By The By Wolfie do you draw or write or color? I ask because over at Liefelds Forum someone posted a thread from Penciljack where, I'm guessing, the usual bashing of Rob was going on and wound up in a challenge to draw a page Liefeld had done years ago, better. Well guess what, Liefeld won as none of the so-called better artists could make their versions of Rob's page look or feel better. I think we need a challenge to all the Rob bashers to put up or shaddap. Find a page of Liefeld's , a sequential Page, and redraw it then get votes on who wins and include Liefeld in the polls.
Here's the Pencljack thread. Can't link to Liefelds forum as only members have access.
http://www.penciljack.com/forum/showthread.php?115795-Psf-You-think-you-re-better&highlight=better+then+liefeld
*Looks at thread*

Bwahahahahahahahahahahah.

That is bad when Liefeld wins in that contest, but to be honest, those 'artists' can't tell a story very well. I mean, there's an ass shot for christ's sake. :D

CHWolf
09-04-2012, 02:23 PM
What's interesting to note, though, is that the poll can really be broken down into two options.

Liefeld vs. Not-Liefeld.


It's not very scientific, though of course I doubt they were THAT anal about the whole challenge. You can't split the vote like that when asking a very direct question.

It's sort of like:

"What do you think of pie?

A: I LOVE IT
B: Not for me.
C: I hate it!"

"I love it" is unfairly likely to win because the negative, the "no pie please" answers, are split among two options.



So honestly that vote is 67% Liefeld, 33% Not-Liefeld.


Liefeld still "wins", but how sad a percentage is that for a working professional with decades in the industry? Some would probably say the pool of challengers need to hone their work a bit more, etc., which makes that 33% chunk even more of a blow to Rob. 33% prefer rougher and more unrefined work over his very long-lived "style".


It gets even worse when you factor in the even less scientific method of asking this of comic fans on a comic forum.


Imagine going to a music forum, post Britney Spears and a bunch of other singers nobody's heard of. (Not a slight, I'm building a specific example.) Have a Britney track, then a track from each of the aspiring folks.

Now imagine how that vote is going to shake out.



Just saying - nostalgia can sway opinion, and the taste of so few (20-someodd) people is not a determining factor when it comes to the quality of the work. Plus more than a few people (like someone in this thread) would vote for Liefeld no matter what to show people who's boss, etc.


Hold that poll with artwork from some of the stellar folks who hang around this board, one-on-one, and all I'm sayin' is the results are different.

LeisureSuit
09-05-2012, 06:00 AM
The only difference between Liefeld's work and some of the others is professional inking. Although some of the Animč ones do bite.

Ebony Warrior
09-05-2012, 03:36 PM
As much as i criticize Liefeld's art, i would have probably voted for him as well. The page really isn't a fair one to work from. other than the first panel (with wierd legs and the grenade multiplting in the second panel) It is really just a bunch of upper torso and head shots. If they had put in a page that required movement, perspective and such the contest might come out differently.

Duane Korslund
09-05-2012, 03:50 PM
but also...everyone's talking through their teeth...and I counted 13 pouches in the first panel...gotta stretch the eye a little, but they're there. Part of the beauty of comics, and art in general, is the detail...when someone fucks with detail and tries to pass it off as properly detailed....its just makes them look bad....and I think that's the main problem with RL...he's not willing to say "ok...the eleventy billion pouches, shitty anatomy, and inconsistent expressive drawing is part of my style, love it for the flawed way it is." Instead he adopts the attitude of "I'm not drawing anatomy wrong...the human body is formed wrong...this is how it should be...FUCK SYMMETRY...and also...POUCHES RULE!!"
And I think that's where all the bad blood between him and the community in general comes from....the fact that he still gets work is probably a residual nod to yesteryear when comics were just beginning their evolution into what they are today. Which is where he should have stayed.

Ebony Warrior
09-05-2012, 04:18 PM
but also...everyone's talking through their teeth...and I counted 13 pouches in the first panel...gotta stretch the eye a little, but they're there. Part of the beauty of comics, and art in general, is the detail...when someone fucks with detail and tries to pass it off as properly detailed....its just makes them look bad....and I think that's the main problem with RL...he's not willing to say "ok...the eleventy billion pouches, shitty anatomy, and inconsistent expressive drawing is part of my style, love it for the flawed way it is." Instead he adopts the attitude of "I'm not drawing anatomy wrong...the human body is formed wrong...this is how it should be...FUCK SYMMETRY...and also...POUCHES RULE!!" And I think that's where all the bad blood between him and the community in general comes from....the fact that he still gets work is probably a residual nod to yesteryear when comics were just beginning their evolution into what they are today. Which is where he should have stayed.

I think the bad blood is from him turning bad figure drawing into a lucrative career. I say figure drawing because i honestly don't believe he can draw or incorporate any other aspects of art knowlege into his pages. No consisancy between panels, no perspective, no character differeces (all have the same body form)...nothing. Him getting continually hired is pretty much a slap in the face to any artist out there looking for work that has the basic fundementals of art and composition. that being said, Kudos to him, he must be one hell of a sales man to be "relavent" in the industry this many years.

Duane Korslund
09-05-2012, 04:24 PM
I think the bad blood is from him turning bad figure drawing into a lucrative career. I say figure drawing because i honestly don't believe he can draw or incorporate any other aspects of art knowlege into his pages. No consisancy between panels, no perspective, no character differeces (all have the same body form)...nothing. Him getting continually hired is pretty much a slap in the face to any artist out there looking for work that has the basic fundementals of art and composition. that being said, Kudos to him, he must be one hell of a sales man to be "relavent" in the industry this many years.

oh its definitely a slap in the face to the hard working artists out there who dont get the recognition they deserve...There's quite a few on this forum alone that have the talent and the right attitude....a real pity.

Sage
09-05-2012, 08:28 PM
Some more 90's goodness!

http://www.comicsalliance.com/2012/09/05/kids-like-chains-and-more-wisdom-from-todd-mcfarlane-rob-lief/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYbR4OlFv0A&list=PL9AE306DD4D23B699&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/user/iDraw3G?feature=watch

Here are some of the highlights.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/168568/Dyl%20Projects/CA%20Kids%20Love%20Chains/JPEGS/CA_KLChains.jpg

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/168568/Dyl%20Projects/CA%20Kids%20Love%20Chains/JPEGS/CA_KLChains11.jpg

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/168568/Dyl%20Projects/CA%20Kids%20Love%20Chains/JPEGS/CA_KLChains10.jpg

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/168568/Dyl%20Projects/CA%20Kids%20Love%20Chains/JPEGS/CA_KLChains13.jpg

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/168568/Dyl%20Projects/CA%20Kids%20Love%20Chains/JPEGS/CA_KLChains27.jpg

I don't know who comes out worse in this thing Stan, Todd or Rob??? :slap:



EDIT: Here's a funny comment someone posted on Youtube.

"Rob is amazing. Look how creative he is. McFarlane and his big mouth. Meh! He should be humble around the GREAT Rob! Look at that characterīs chain- belt all fallen on the side. Just like real belts. Belts should all fall to the side starting now just because Rob decided it. I love how Rob always decides his characters shouldnīt have wrists. We donīt need that part of our anatomy at all, dude. According to the great Rob, we shouldnīt have feet either.Know what? I agree with him on that too."
rorschach1978 6 months ago

Biofungus
09-05-2012, 09:16 PM
The year was 1991, and Todd looks like he just stepped out of an "A-Ha!" video.

CHWolf
09-05-2012, 09:54 PM
Christ, back when I was a kid, this other kid across the street had an Image "how to draw" video that looked a lot like this. I tried to watch it with him at one point, but only got a few minutes in.

Crazy. Anyone else see a young Matt Damon and Ben Affleck?

Duane Korslund
09-06-2012, 10:41 AM
I don't know who comes out worse in this thing Stan, Todd or Rob??? :slap:



EDIT: Here's a funny comment someone posted on Youtube.

"Rob is amazing. Look how creative he is. McFarlane and his big mouth. Meh! He should be humble around the GREAT Rob! Look at that characterīs chain- belt all fallen on the side. Just like real belts. Belts should all fall to the side starting now just because Rob decided it. I love how Rob always decides his characters shouldnīt have wrists. We donīt need that part of our anatomy at all, dude. According to the great Rob, we shouldnīt have feet either.Know what? I agree with him on that too."
rorschach1978 6 months ago

See!!! I knew it!!!!!

Duane Korslund
09-06-2012, 10:44 AM
Crazy. Anyone else see a young Matt Damon and Ben Affleck?


Totally!

Biofungus
09-07-2012, 06:39 AM
Matt Damon was never young. He was born middle-aged.

Biofungus
09-08-2012, 10:57 AM
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/rob-liefeld-dc-editorial-tweets.html

He literally admits to getting at least one editor fired, and total prima donna mode ("I didn't agree with it, but the new editor liked it, so I left.")

Troy Wall
09-09-2012, 08:50 PM
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll319/benchilada/Comic%20Books/RobLiefeldCaptainAmerieca.jpg

No Liefeld thread will be posted to DW without this image.

As you were.

Rob Norton
09-10-2012, 04:44 PM
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll319/benchilada/Comic%20Books/RobLiefeldCaptainAmerieca.jpg

No Liefeld thread will be posted to DW without this image.

As you were.

that is the first time i have ever seen this image without the little black box.

HA!!!

look at that little tallywacker..... so awesome.

rob

Bishop
09-10-2012, 07:01 PM
Enough about Liefeld... How 'bout this SPlatt! image?

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/614471_10151050333517543_775730548_o.jpg

Yeesh! How do I resize that thing?

ponyrl
09-10-2012, 08:06 PM
So the jokers's hair is poking out around batman's crotch?

Is that...very special after school special where bats FINALLY comes out and expresses his deep-seeded desire for green haired guys?

Barnaby
09-10-2012, 09:02 PM
Liefeld quit DC?!? Meh... no big deal...

The real question for me is:
How the hell was he working for DC in the first place?!? I thought DC still had some standards when it comes to art.

My mistake... :slap:

Biofungus
09-11-2012, 02:47 PM
Liefeld quit DC?!? Meh... no big deal...

The real question for me is:
How the hell was he working for DC in the first place?!? I thought DC still had some standards when it comes to art.

My mistake... :slap:
He was also writing, where apparently DC has long since lost their standards... :whistlin:

CHWolf
09-11-2012, 09:20 PM
I really want Liefeld to end up like some demented elderly egomaniac shut-in... where he gets offers to draw and write... and everything is just taken up ten levels.

There's some dude gritting his 400 teeth, squinting, and just outright saying: "THIS IS HOW MANY TEETH HUMANS HAVE BECAUSE FUCK YOU."

Moonrider
09-11-2012, 11:30 PM
I really want Liefeld to end up like some demented elderly egomaniac shut-in... where he gets offers to draw and write... and everything is just taken up ten levels.

There's some dude gritting his 400 teeth, squinting, and just outright saying: "THIS IS HOW MANY TEETH HUMANS HAVE BECAUSE FUCK YOU."

And it would still sell great.

Ebony Warrior
09-12-2012, 02:52 PM
See he is paying "homage" (swipe) to another artist, yet again. This time George Perez on page 3 of the deathstroke book. At least i think it's page 3 as i am only looking at the preview - not buying it. Maddy firing the gun - complete rip off of Perez from teen titans - and how bad a rip off, it's the same character in the same pose, dealing with the origin of the same character. boy, he is getting lazy in his swipes.

Biofungus
09-12-2012, 03:30 PM
And it would still sell great.
No, it wouldn't. That's the thing. His selling point has been dropping steadily. That's why he keeps getting flipped to different books, and why his own books have been failing. Controversy sells, and that's why his books used to sell. But more and more people are realizing there's no "controversy", just an old horse limping to the gate.

Lovecraft13
09-12-2012, 04:27 PM
Liefeld didn't quit me.

Barnaby
09-12-2012, 06:02 PM
No, it wouldn't. That's the thing. His selling point has been dropping steadily. That's why he keeps getting flipped to different books, and why his own books have been failing. Controversy sells, and that's why his books used to sell. But more and more people are realizing there's no "controversy", just an old horse limping to the gate.

The man used to be funny at some point. Not anymore...

CHWolf
09-12-2012, 06:38 PM
I dunno, I still think Bio's funny.

Barnaby
09-12-2012, 10:40 PM
I dunno, I still think Bio's funny.

He has his moments... :)

Biofungus
09-13-2012, 02:52 PM
Law of averages. 21k posts, I'm bound to get a few right :D

Co.Inkadink
09-13-2012, 04:31 PM
Enough about Liefeld... How 'bout this SPlatt! image?

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/614471_10151050333517543_775730548_o.jpg


What about it?

Bishop
09-13-2012, 05:56 PM
What about it?

I just found the anatomy to be Liefeld-like. I was struck by how horrible it was when I saw it posted online (by SPlatt).

Co.Inkadink
09-13-2012, 06:00 PM
I just found the anatomy to be Liefeld-like. I was struck by how horrible it was when I saw it posted online (by SPlatt).

I disagree. Steven Platt has actual talent and understanding of anatomy he just has a way of exaggerating it.

Barnaby
09-13-2012, 06:30 PM
I just found the anatomy to be Liefeld-like. I was struck by how horrible it was when I saw it posted online (by SPlatt).

I also disagree... not my favourite style, but there's a world of difference between that image and anything Liefeld has ever done.
I could actually read a book with that art!

Bishop
09-13-2012, 06:54 PM
I also disagree... not my favourite style, but there's a world of difference between that image and anything Liefeld has ever done.
I could actually read a book with that art!

C'mon, you guys don't see his right arm, and the garden hose vein running up it? That arms looks all kinds of messed up to me. His head is way off and too small. The left side of his chest and the adjoining shoulder are scrunched up weird. The abdominal muscles on his left side are weird, and look at the hose-vein running over that left shoulder...

I like a lot of SPlatt's stuff, but this is far from his best work.

Co.Inkadink
09-13-2012, 07:16 PM
C'mon, you guys don't see his right arm, and the garden hose vein running up it? That arms looks all kinds of messed up to me. His head is way off and too small. The left side of his chest and the adjoining shoulder are scrunched up weird. The abdominal muscles on his left side are weird, and look at the hose-vein running over that left shoulder...

I like a lot of SPlatt's stuff, but this is far from his best work.

Agreed but his worst is better than Liefield's best.

Bishop
09-13-2012, 09:37 PM
Agreed but his worst is better than Liefield's best.

True dat

syapa
09-14-2012, 04:06 AM
Meh, Work on ya own stuff an don't fret none ovah Liefeld. Pusht aside da Bitterness and worry on what ya aint done

http://www.centplay.com/affiliate/id_3521/ (http://www.centplay.com/affiliate/id_3521/)

The Dag
09-14-2012, 06:19 AM
Meh, Work on ya own stuff an don't fret none ovah Liefeld. Pusht aside da Bitterness and worry on what ya aint done


wtf did you just say?

ponyrl
09-14-2012, 02:00 PM
wtf did you just say?
It's a Jaz thing.

Ebony Warrior
09-14-2012, 02:42 PM
Those are hoses on his arms, they are pumping the venom into his body making him all big and muscley...or he has just painted his skin grey, cause thats the only way veins like that would show.

Duane Korslund
09-14-2012, 02:48 PM
It's a Jaz thing.

seemed a little more jar jar binks than jibba jabba

ponyrl
09-14-2012, 03:00 PM
seemed a little more jar jar binks than jibba jabba
True, true. :laugh:

Biofungus
09-14-2012, 04:32 PM
C'mon, you guys don't see his right arm, and the garden hose vein running up it? That arms looks all kinds of messed up to me. His head is way off and too small. The left side of his chest and the adjoining shoulder are scrunched up weird. The abdominal muscles on his left side are weird, and look at the hose-vein running over that left shoulder...

I like a lot of SPlatt's stuff, but this is far from his best work.
I agree with this assessment and noticed some of the oddities myself. But it's still far from "Liefeldian".

Also, if you've seen Platt's Gnomon Workshop video, he actually talks a bit about the anatomy as he's drawing and you can tell he actually knows what to do. Liefeld always comes across as if he's making shit up as he goes along.

And the inking on the Platt batman pic sucks, btw. The feathering isn't so bad on the abdominal muscles, but it's terrible on the arm and much of the rest of the image. The inking is only marginally better than what I'm capable of, and that's not a good thing, IMO.

Biofungus
09-14-2012, 04:33 PM
seemed a little more jar jar binks than jibba jabba
It's a Justice41 sentiment sifted through a Jaz180 sieve.

Ebony Warrior
09-14-2012, 06:05 PM
This link speaks volumes as to liefelds art and writing - It is usually someone elses.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/09/14/swipe-file-rob-liefeld-marv-wolfman-and-george-perez/

Ebony Warrior
09-14-2012, 06:10 PM
...and maybe that's why Rob got the editor fired, because the editor wanted original material and not a reprint of Teen Titans.

Justice41
09-14-2012, 07:01 PM
This link speaks volumes as to liefelds art and writing - It is usually someone elses.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/09/14/swipe-file-rob-liefeld-marv-wolfman-and-george-perez/

Bwahahahahahahahahahaaahahaaahha It's tough defending Liefeld. He doesn't make it easy Bwahahahahahahahaahahaahaahahah.:laugh:

Co.Inkadink
09-14-2012, 07:22 PM
This link speaks volumes as to liefelds art and writing - It is usually someone elses.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/09/14/swipe-file-rob-liefeld-marv-wolfman-and-george-perez/

I hate to say this but he should've just traced it, he might learn something about anatomy that way.

Biofungus
09-14-2012, 07:24 PM
If he draws a gun that contains more than 3 lines/two "tubes", I'm always amazed.

Justice41
09-14-2012, 08:20 PM
I'm amazed people can spot these kinda swipes.

Barnaby
09-14-2012, 08:39 PM
He even swipes badly... he forgot the girl's leg in that sunset scene!

My... God... :blink:

The Dag
09-14-2012, 10:31 PM
He even swipes badly... he forgot the girl's leg in that sunset scene!

My... God... :blink:

i hate you for making me go look again.

astromerc
09-15-2012, 03:40 AM
This guy has ZERO shame! Zero!

CHWolf
09-15-2012, 05:32 AM
<?php
if ($shame == 0 && $talent == 0) {
echo "
Congratulations! You're Rob Liefeld!
";
}
?>

Sage
09-15-2012, 04:19 PM
It's amazing how much better those old sequential pages are compared to the new ones.

I think I might even prefer the old colors to the new.

CHWolf
09-15-2012, 05:45 PM
Mark my words.

Bring back news print and ditch glossy pages. Take computers out of the process wherever they aren't integral to the modern process. Reduce the cover price accordingly.

Free up creators to tell the stories they want, how they want.


Comic industry thrives.

Biofungus
09-15-2012, 10:11 PM
Newsprint was ditched prior to computers being the norm because there was a big increase in paper costs in the late 80's/early 90's that basically made newsprint almost as expensive as the 'better paper'. Then of course the printing process and computer use made them use even better paper, but the transition was essentially already in place.

CHWolf
09-15-2012, 10:20 PM
Yeah, those were pretty much seperate points.

Like "give us shitty paper that smells like comic books!" and "also maybe do some stuff the less-shiny but maybe cheaper way."


I blame the lack of comic book smell for the decline in sales. :V

Biofungus
09-15-2012, 11:00 PM
I blame the lack of x-ray spec ads.

dmh_3000
09-16-2012, 03:43 AM
This link speaks volumes as to liefelds art and writing - It is usually someone elses.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/09/14/swipe-file-rob-liefeld-marv-wolfman-and-george-perez/

It's this sort of blatant plagiarism, along with what Peter (http://www.peterdavid.net/2010/08/20/giving-credit-where-credit-is-due/) David (http://www.peterdavid.net/2010/08/23/giving-credit-where-credit-is-due-part-2/) pointed out two decades ago, makes me wonder about Rob's view of comics. It seems that the reason Rob makes generic comics is because that's how he sees comics.

I follow him on twitter because it's hilarious, and when talking about Game of Thrones, a series based on shades of grey characters, he treats it as Black and White, even stating that Rob Stark is the greatest fantasy hero ever and he's proud to share the character's name, even though season two is all about what a selfish idiot he's being with his war of vengeance. But all he sees is a noble king wishing to vanquish evil. It explains why he feels no need to give his characters personality traits or expand on their history, because he doesn't think it's needed.

How do the swipes tie in? It's the same with art. He sees his artwork on the same level as Jack Kirby's or John Buscema's for Christ's sake, but when you look at the blatant swipes, it's clear he though he could get away with it. And the only way he could think that is if he also sees artwork as generic as he sees story telling. Unique style doesn't occur to him.

Justice41
09-16-2012, 11:49 AM
It's amazing how much better those old sequential pages are compared to the new ones.

I think I might even prefer the old colors to the new.

Might?

Moonrider
09-21-2012, 05:07 AM
Seems like Liefeld is not the only one who has issues with editorship from the big two.

http://www.comicsbeat.com/2012/09/20/greg-rucka-gets-increasingly-candid-about-work-for-hire-conditions-debunks-another-myth/

Morganza
09-22-2012, 05:58 PM
For those of you wondering how Liefeld gets jobs with DC/ Marvel, it's the same guy, Bob Harras.

Troy Wall
09-22-2012, 06:36 PM
For those of you wondering how Liefeld gets jobs with DC/ Marvel, it's the same guy, Bob Harras.

That makes a lot of sense!