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View Full Version : Looking for a consonous


ronin7
09-18-2011, 05:43 PM
Do you fellows think that their should be more all-ages work in the medium? That some books would work better as all-ages like Superman, Spider-Man, FF, compared to Punisher, DD, Hulk, and the like which work better as grim and gritty? Or, do you think it is avenue that should only be explored in the independents?

Or, are you totally against their being some variety in either the Big Two and the independents?

I am curious, 'cause some posters I have talked with on the Bendis board believe their should be absolutely no all-ages works in comics.

kamikaze
10-01-2011, 05:59 AM
i wouldnt mind it at all. Im an adult, so a little variety wouldnt hurt, as long as it doesnt go overboard. I think Daredevil would benefit from that, too.

paul brian deberry
10-01-2011, 08:39 AM
More "kid" friendly books are needed. However, I'm completely against dumbing down a title.

Most of the books you mentioned are "kid" friendly anyway... even the other books are no where near an "R" rating or unfriendly to kids.

Are you saying completely eliminate violence? That is the only thing making most of the "adult" books even close to an "R" rating.

ronin7
10-01-2011, 09:22 AM
More "kid" friendly books are needed. However, I'm completely against dumbing down a title.

Most of the books you mentioned are "kid" friendly anyway... even the other books are no where near an "R" rating or unfriendly to kids.

Are you saying completely eliminate violence? That is the only thing making most of the "adult" books even close to an "R" rating.

No, what I am saying is removing the excessive gore, and using more subtle clues for sex and shit. So kids parents will allow them to read'em. Despite what DC says, I don't think their comics are selling out at the retail level. Only through diamond. Which means the comic industry is still under the gun. A change is needed, and more of the over the top violence won't solve matters.

PC812
10-01-2011, 01:44 PM
Most of the runs in comics that are considered classics are the ones that appeal to all ages. They had drama, romance and action, but they were done in a way that could appeal to everyone. Kids could enjoy them because on the surface, they were superhero action-adventure stories. But adults could enjoy them too, because they had compelling characters and overall good storytelling.

I always have and always will cite Peter David as a master on this, particularly his Hulk run. Claremont's original run on X-Men as well. These were books I could enjoy as a kid but also as an adult because they had a lot going on. There were adult themes, to be sure, but they were handled with subtlety -- you weren't beaten over the head with them.

The idea of "mature" comics seems more like a dumbing down. An idea of what teenage boys think is mature -- which means lots of sex and violence while ignoring the substance part of the equation. How many people cite 90s Image comics as classics? Probably no one. At their core, a majority of the books centered on great artwork (with the exception of Liefeld) combined with sex and violence as a replacement for compelling story-telling. Books like the DC New 52's Catwoman and Red Hood and the Outlaws fall more into this category.

Mick, you and I don't agree on a lot, but on this I'm with you. I don't feel embarrassed if I'm on the bus and someone looks over my shoulder while reading something like the new Batgirl title (subliminal message: read Batgirl). But if I'm reading something like Red Hood and the Outlaws on the bus and someone looks over my shoulder, I'd feel like a kid whose mom just caught him watching a softcore porn movie on Cinemax.

If you want to attract new readers, the best way is to appeal to the widest possible demographic. Kid-friendly doesn't mean simplistic. Just look at Batman: The Animated Series. I was around nine or ten when that show first came on and I loved it then. And I've recently started rewatching it and I still love it now. It's because of good storytelling, period. BTAS should be the model for every superhero comic.

The amount of people who read comics is not a very large number. The industry can't possibly expect to expand readership by appealing to a narrow demographic of teenage boys. Thanks to TV and movies, superheroes are hot now. Manga has proven that people are willing to read comics as well, but the success of manga and superheroes has not translated into success for superhero comics. And I believe it's because superhero comics lately are appealing only to a very narrow demographic -- people who already read comics. Distribution also plays into this as well, but that's a whole other issue. And when I see things like DC putting out a press release in response to the controversy over their books saying "pay attention to the ratings," that's basically ignoring the legitimate issues being brought up.

First, reach a wide audience. Once you've got a wide audience, then you can start publishing books for a more niche audience.