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yellowphantom
09-11-2011, 11:52 PM
I missed the boat on any of the books that came out this week , Action, Swamp Thing ect...did anyone pick up any of the DC relaunch titles?
Does anyone have an opinion on what they've read? good/bad? flaming dogshit?

Lovecraft13
09-12-2011, 04:12 AM
I read the first wave. I still don't see why they did it. If I didn't follow entertainment news sites, I would have never known about the relaunch, as I never saw any ads or heard a mention of it anywhere else. They relaunched the titles for the very people who were already reading the books. How is that gonna bring in new readers? A year from now, as Action Comics #12 reintroduces us to the Toy Man, or Detective Comics finally solves the mystery of The Penguin's identity, the novelty of it will wear off and a backlash will begin.

Mwynn
09-12-2011, 09:07 AM
There were ad's on tv for the relaunch, which I thought was pretty nice. First time I have seen comics ad's on tv since G.I. Joe. http://www.newsarama.com/comics/dcnu-marketing-programs-110909.html

According to the publisher, the "DC COMICS - THE NEW 52" commercial is airing on: BBC America
Cartoon Network
Comedy Central
IFC
MTV2
SyFy

More specifically, the commercial is running during shows including:

Comedy Central - The Daily Show, The Colbert Report, Tosh.O, South Park and
Futurama.

MTV2 - Pranked, Viva La Bam, The Challenge, Rivals and Rob Dyrdek's Fantasy
Factory.

SyFy - Ghost Hunters International, Stargate, Star Trek: The Next
Generation, American Ninja Warrior and WWE Smackdown.

IFC - The Onion News Network.

Online, the New 52 is being promoted via paid advertising on Facebook, Twitter, Google Search and Bing Search from now through December 24.

I got a chance to check out all the books and thought they were pretty good. The argument whether I reboot was needed or not is pointless, because it is done. The books have sold out and will probably hit a 3rd printing. The retailers will up their orders for the issues. Hopefully a lot of those sales were from new readers. So far mission accomplished by DC.

Shep
09-12-2011, 10:07 AM
I missed the boat on any of the books that came out this week , Action, Swamp Thing ect...did anyone pick up any of the DC relaunch titles?
Does anyone have an opinion on what they've read? good/bad? flaming dogshit?

Action Comics was pretty good, I really liked what they're doing with Superman. I read Hawk and Dove which was a pretty quick read and I think I would've enjoyed it more with a different artist (not to turn this into a Liefeld bash but YIKES!) I've still yet to read Animal Man and Detective, but I did see the last page of Detective (yeah, I'm one of those guys) and I can't wait for issue 2. My LCS was sold out of JLI and Swamp Thing which I also wanted to check out so I downloaded Swamp Thing and flipped through, I'll read it later but at a glance I don't think it's for me.

Mwynn
09-12-2011, 04:59 PM
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/dc-touts-new-52-sales-success-110912.html

Earlier today, Diamond Comic Distributors officially announced that Justice League #1, written by Geoff Johns and drawn by Jim Lee and Scott Williams, is the bestselling comic book for the month of August - and to date, all of 2011.

That's the headline - and it's a good one - but, for those interested, here's a further look inside the numbers for The New 52:

With a first printing exceeding 200,000 copies sold to retailers, Justice League #1 is again the bestselling Direct Market title in 2011 and is the highest first printing of any DC Comics' title since 2006's Justice League Of America #1 by Brad Meltzer, Ed Benes and Sandra Hope.

The 200,000 first printing figure includes the digital combo pack and all variant editions, but not digital sales. As previously reported the first printing was sold out at Diamond within hours of going on sale. The second printing of Justice League #1 also sold out in less than 24 hours and the issue is now in its third printing.

Biofungus
09-12-2011, 05:07 PM
I'd be curious to know those digital sales...

Critters Daddy
09-12-2011, 06:20 PM
these #1 order numbers are totally meaningless. Yes its great to have 200k copies on the shelves and selling it seems in most cases, but they dont mean a damn if those same people dont come back for 2, 3, 4 etc. Im betting theres a fairly large contingent of buyers picking up these #1's and putting them in a box and never even reading them.

This is another hype event that is being used to grab new readers, but we are instead getting new buyers. So great heres some cash in the pockets of the retailers and theres nothing wrong with that, but in 6 months or maybe it will take a year, these books will be back to normal sales and books like Mr Terriffic and JLA Dark...ugh...will be on their way to cancelation leaving us in the same spot we are already in. I dont have an answer for how to get people to READ a comic and understand that it is no different than a novel...to be read and enjoyed for what it is and not to polybag it for your grandchildren...but this "scheme" of DC's is alienating a large number of their existing fans, and only dragging in people who's interest has been slightly piqued by a national news event.

I have always said I hope this works cause if it does it helps us all, but so far I'm not seeing it and even new readers will tire of this new universe fairly quickly cause its not put together or concieved very well in my opinion. If you love the new books, wonderful im glad for you. But I'm hearing far more people giving these books reviews in the area of "meh" to "im done already" and thats not a good thing. And I wonder if the "good" reveiws on places like CBR and such arent just hype builders and ass kissing in the old school vein of Wizard in the 90's cause if it came out that the "comics greatest creators" were crapping out...oh boy.

ronin7
09-12-2011, 06:29 PM
these #1 order numbers are totally meaningless. Yes its great to have 200k copies on the shelves and selling it seems in most cases, but they dont mean a damn if those same people dont come back for 2, 3, 4 etc. Im betting theres a fairly large contingent of buyers picking up these #1's and putting them in a box and never even reading them.

This is another hype event that is being used to grab new readers, but we are instead getting new buyers. So great heres some cash in the pockets of the retailers and theres nothing wrong with that, but in 6 months or maybe it will take a year, these books will be back to normal sales and books like Mr Terriffic and JLA Dark...ugh...will be on their way to cancelation leaving us in the same spot we are already in. I dont have an answer for how to get people to READ a comic and understand that it is no different than a novel...to be read and enjoyed for what it is and not to polybag it for your grandchildren...but this "scheme" of DC's is alienating a large number of their existing fans, and only dragging in people who's interest has been slightly piqued by a national news event.

I have always said I hope this works cause if it does it helps us all, but so far I'm not seeing it and even new readers will tire of this new universe fairly quickly cause its not put together or concieved very well in my opinion. If you love the new books, wonderful im glad for you. But I'm hearing far more people giving these books reviews in the area of "meh" to "im done already" and thats not a good thing. And I wonder if the "good" reveiws on places like CBR and such arent just hype builders and ass kissing in the old school vein of Wizard in the 90's cause if it came out that the "comics greatest creators" were crapping out...oh boy.


CBR has always been kissing ass. Brian Cronin is one of the biggest on-line ass-kissers in comics, and he clearly has no idea what he even speaks of.

Duane Korslund
09-12-2011, 06:36 PM
wouldnt it be a fair assessment to say we wont be able to really get a grasp on how well or poorly these stories are going to play out until after at least six issues. Im giving them that long. People are fickle, and if they see the same ol bullshit cropping up these 52 will be dead as disco quick like.
Even the so called "new readers"...wait what new readers?? Either you're gonna get into comics or your not. The people reading these are already into comics and the people who are just getting into comics would have read the old shit anyway...so really...its just a ploy to get them to dump a buttload of backlogged continuity because their writers spend half their time trying to figure out if half the issue they had been writing fits continuity.
I take it back, I'm not even giving them that long!
Its a cop out..
Its lazy...
George Lucas will probably do it next! :P

Allegory Comics
09-12-2011, 06:44 PM
#1 always sells high, and with the major national news this has gotten, it's not surprising that they're selling near 200,000 copies. I agree that the real measurement will be how well #11 (for example) sells, after the newness has worn off. But that shouldn't take away from the initial success of this launch, which is HUGE.

In my own shop, the owners have told me that they have had new readers coming in, and old readers picking up DC books they never did before. So in that way, it's worked. What happens next month? I don't know. I don't think they can keep up 200,000 sales every month, and certainly some (or even many) of those new readers will disappear -- but I don't think that means it's an absolute failure.

The question will be where the sales settle.

ACTION COMICS was selling in the 20,000-range each month last year. This month it sold more than 100,000. Next month it may be down to 90,000, then 75,000, and so on. But if the smoke settles next year and they're consistanly moving 45,000 copies every month, then it's double what they were doing and a good move for the publisher.

The shock will wear off and some new readers will leave, but after it all settles are they selling more or less titles? I think they'll be selling a lot more.

And as for the reviews, I've heard some mixed reviews but overall I've heard a lot of GOOD reviews. Most people I've heard are saying, "I didn't think it would work, but I read it and I liked it." Not everyone is going to like it, that's a given, but I do think most people are enjoying it.

Mwynn
09-12-2011, 06:46 PM
Even the so called "new readers"...wait what new readers?? Either you're gonna get into comics or your not. The people reading these are already into comics and the people who are just getting into comics would have read the old shit anyway...so really...its just a ploy to get them to dump a buttload of backlogged continuity because their writers spend half their time trying to figure out if half the issue they had been writing fits continuity.


Yet how much off the backlogged continuity has been dropped. Two of the new books take place in the past, and the Crisis happened. There is a mystery character in every book, that could be behind the rewriting of the new dc universe. I think there are enough story threads to keep this interesting for awhile. It was also very easy for me to get new people to try some of the books out, because they were new number ones.

Duane Korslund
09-12-2011, 06:51 PM
Yet how much off the backlogged continuity has been dropped. Two of the new books take place in the past, and the Crisis happened. There is a mystery character in every book, that could be behind the rewriting of the new dc universe. I think there are enough story threads to keep this interesting for awhile. It was also very easy for me to get new people to try some of the books out, because they were new number ones.

I'm guessing we'll find out pretty quickly how much they're willing to keep, and how much they throw away.
I think I was thinking about bringing in new people who dont read comic books vs. who do read them and just dont read DC. I can see their ploy to bring in readers who have strayed away from DC. That's pretty easy to do with a #1.
I was thinking bigger picture...not really applicable for the most part.

Evan Henry
09-12-2011, 06:57 PM
I read Action Comics #1, and it was okay, even though I generally despise Morrison's writing. I'll be picking up some more today. I think DC could have benefited greatly from a reboot, but... this isn't the right one. The idea of a "soft" reboot is more harmful to continuity than keeping the status quo going. They should have went all the way or not at all, IMO.

Mwynn
09-12-2011, 08:46 PM
I'm guessing we'll find out pretty quickly how much they're willing to keep, and how much they throw away.
I think I was thinking about bringing in new people who dont read comic books vs. who do read them and just dont read DC. I can see their ploy to bring in readers who have strayed away from DC. That's pretty easy to do with a #1.
I was thinking bigger picture...not really applicable for the most part.

Just speaking for myself, I have been able to steer a few people over who have never read comics.

ronin7
09-12-2011, 09:41 PM
Morrison's writing is always hideous, incompetent, and barely comprehensible. Even his adamant followers are clueless on what he means, and use a pretense that they DO know what he is all about.

As for this relaunch, 45,000 was what they were selling prior to the butchering of the line by New Krypton, Morrison's Batshit inc, and the other abysmal failures. I'd be surprised if they managed to level off at a higher than expected number - it's doubtful since what new readers won't have a clue what is going on with Morrison's idiot-made writing and Geoff Johns Tarantino style violence.

Moonrider
09-13-2011, 01:45 AM
Morrison's writing is always hideous, incompetent, and barely comprehensible. Even his adamant followers are clueless on what he means, and use a pretense that they DO know what he is all about.

You do realize that this is a derogatory comment to folks who happen to like Morrison's writing, don't you?

:)

PC812
09-13-2011, 08:21 AM
Even the so called "new readers"...wait what new readers?? Either you're gonna get into comics or your not. The people reading these are already into comics and the people who are just getting into comics would have read the old shit anyway...

I'm not sure I follow your logic here. People who are just getting into comics would have already read the old stuff? How does that work?

Duane Korslund
09-13-2011, 10:17 AM
I'm not sure I follow your logic here. People who are just getting into comics would have already read the old stuff? How does that work?

What I meant was that new readers would start reading regardless if its new stuff or old stuff. I dont think its gonna benefit new readers (people who have never picked up a comic book at all...i.e. kids...) to have a new continuity put before them only to have it tank in a year and go back to the way it was and really screw them up.
I think I was mistaking the terminology of "new reader". In my mind "new reader" is a 11-14 year old kid who has never read a comic book before.
I really didnt think about DC's actual target audience in all this.
New readers as in: People who got fed up with years and years of convoluted and often conflicting continuity so they went to Marvel (not much better) or dark horse, or wherever; now they're trying to win them back with the promise of a fresh start.
I see the logic in it, but dont see it succeeding long-term. They should have just laid in the bed they made and concentrated more on fixing the continuity or, as I heard mentioned before, completely wipe it out and do a hard reboot. Nothing left, 100% clean slate.

Moonrider
09-13-2011, 08:52 PM
The reason why Marvel's Ultimate Spider-Man was successful was because it's a whole new universe but it also have a certain familiarity with the proper Marvel continuity, that way new readers (whichever your definition is) can just pick up Ultimate Spider-Man #1 to start reading while older fans can still relate to the stories because of its familiarity with the original material. The thing about DC is, this is not their first reboot. What can be considered a fresh take on Marvel U in Ultimate Marvel is not so fresh anymore when applied to DC characters. Still, any changes are good changes I'd say. Nobody in this world really knows what they want anyway. :)

Lovecraft13
09-15-2011, 04:36 PM
If DC cancels one of the "new" books, will they call their reboot the New 51?

Evan Henry
09-16-2011, 06:50 AM
Update on what I read so far:

Justice League is really, really good. The new Superman costume is actually growing on me (a few days ago I would have ordered you to shoot me through the temple had I uttered those words). I prefer the original look, of course, but it could be a lot worse (for example, he could have a mullet). Geoff Johns + Jim Lee + Justice League + Darkseid = WIN!

Action Comics is good, too. No gripes about the costume there either.

Green Lantern will continue to be good. I don't think I can be truly enthusiastic about that book again until Mahnke's gone, though.

Red Lanterns was surprisingly interesting. Moreso than I was expecting it to be, anyway. I won't be buying it, but I'll buzz off a friend's copy for a few months to see where it goes.

I still need to read Detective. It could be good. It could suck.

CHWolf
09-16-2011, 06:58 PM
(a few days ago I would have ordered you to shoot me through the temple had I uttered those words).

Perhaps you do not recall, but you did indeed issue this order.

Goodnight, Mr. Monkey.

Mwynn
09-16-2011, 07:31 PM
The last page of Detective comics is amazing. Holy crap, that one page changes so much.

ronin7
09-16-2011, 10:12 PM
You do realize that this is a derogatory comment to folks who happen to like Morrison's writing, don't you?

:)

Yeah, apologies for that. It could have been worded better.

Moonrider
09-17-2011, 06:54 AM
Yeah, apologies for that. It could have been worded better.

No biggie. Perhaps you should have put an escape clause in there, like "Even some of his adamant followers..." You really can't say 'most' because you'd have to justify that with real statistic facts. Just my two cents, I know you didn't mean any harm. :)

I have read Action Comics #1, and while I like the story and the pacing and even the concept, I'm still on the fence whether this is really the Superman we need or it should have been a whole new character in a whole new universe that is not associated with DC at all.

ronin7
09-17-2011, 10:10 AM
No biggie. Perhaps you should have put an escape clause in there, like "Even some of his adamant followers..." You really can't say 'most' because you'd have to justify that with real statistic facts. Just my two cents, I know you didn't mean any harm. :)

I have read Action Comics #1, and while I like the story and the pacing and even the concept, I'm still on the fence whether this is really the Superman we need or it should have been a whole new character in a whole new universe that is not associated with DC at all.

I think a social crusader type of Superman might be on uneasy legs. A lot of mediums are becoming more conservative due to the harshness of the economic woes, and as such they do not possess the ability to buy comics they despise. I think we as a medium should adapt to guarantee long-term longevity.

Lovecraft13
09-18-2011, 06:13 PM
I'd probably accept this new relaunch a lot more if all of the books weren't all over the place with its own continuity. Superman flies and hovers in Swamp Thing, but can only leap in Action Comics, Stormwatch footnotes a Superman issue that doesn't come out until the end of the month, Animal Man's kid references the Justice League, which hasn't formed yet. Come on, DC, get on the same page.

Evan Henry
09-18-2011, 08:38 PM
I'd probably accept this new relaunch a lot more if all of the books weren't all over the place with its own continuity. Superman flies and hovers in Swamp Thing, but can only leap in Action Comics,Simple. Action Comics takes place five years ago, before Superman learned to fly. Everything else (with the exception of the first arc of Justice League and, I believe, Detective Comics) takes place in the "present day")

Stormwatch footnotes a Superman issue that doesn't come out until the end of the month,Yes. This is what I like to call corporate editor logic. Not really a continuity problem, though.

Animal Man's kid references the Justice League, which hasn't formed yet. Come on, DC, get on the same page.Actually, it has formed. See my first point.

PC812
09-23-2011, 01:40 AM
I checked out Red Hood and the Outlaws #1.

I needed a shower after reading the terrible depiction of Starfire. My GOD, can comic creators stop behaving like twelve-year-olds with a raging hard-on?

eDKeener
09-25-2011, 02:32 AM
So far I've gottne Justice League, Action Comics, Supergirl, and Superboy. And I gotta say I've enjoyed them all. I had to remember that Justice and Action are both 5 years in the past when reading the other two (especially when Supes shows up in Supergirl) but other than that I liked what I've read so far. I had thought to pick up the bat books, but I flipped through a couple at the shop and um...no. So I tried the Superman family. And I liked it.

Might still track down Batgirl, and I will be picking up Teen Titans so we'll see how that goes.

ronin7
09-25-2011, 03:17 PM
I checked out Red Hood and the Outlaws #1.

I needed a shower after reading the terrible depiction of Starfire. My GOD, can comic creators stop behaving like twelve-year-olds with a raging hard-on?

I can't believe it was Scott Lobdell, he did such great work on the X-Men in the 90's.

Mwynn
09-25-2011, 04:29 PM
The thing with Starfire came up before.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/wp-content/uploads//2011/09/starfire.jpg

ronin7
09-25-2011, 05:45 PM
The thing with Starfire came up before.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/wp-content/uploads//2011/09/starfire.jpg


Yes, but Winick is a hack.

Mwynn
09-25-2011, 05:51 PM
Yes, but Winick is a hack.

And that has what to do with the current topic?

ronin7
09-25-2011, 06:38 PM
And that has what to do with the current topic?

The fact that Winick doesn't understand Starfire, and wrote her grossly out of character. When writing women, he always makes them sluts. When writing characters from the GLAAD community, they are treated with utter respect. He's just as big a misogynistic bigot as any Republican. Since he can't treat every one on equal terms. Or write a narrative that isn't preachy and insulting.

Mwynn
09-25-2011, 06:50 PM
The fact that Winick doesn't understand Starfire, and wrote her grossly out of character. When writing women, he always makes them sluts. When writing characters from the GLAAD community, they are treated with utter respect. He's just as big a misogynistic bigot as any Republican. Since he can't treat every one on equal terms. Or write a narrative that isn't preachy and insulting.

Have you read Red Hood and the Outlaws?

ronin7
09-25-2011, 08:44 PM
Have you read Red Hood and the Outlaws?

No, but I have read Scott Lobdell's work before. I guess I wasn't as familiar with his work like I thought.

Mwynn
09-25-2011, 09:01 PM
No, but I have read Scott Lobdell's work before. I guess I wasn't as familiar with his work like I thought.

Okay, let me try to figure this out. Tell me if I am wrong or not. The panel I posted is the wrong depiction of Firestar, and what was in Red Hood and the Outlaws is the correct depiction?

PC812
09-26-2011, 04:51 AM
Okay, let me try to figure this out. Tell me if I am wrong or not. The panel I posted is the wrong depiction of Firestar, and what was in Red Hood and the Outlaws is the correct depiction?

I can't see the panel myself, the image is broken, so I have no idea what the panel is of. But Red Hood and the Outlaws is definitely not the correct depiction of Starfire.

Okay, just checked the URL, there was an extra slash in there. Here's the correct one:

http://www.bleedingcool.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/starfire.jpg

Look at the key word there: "emotionally." There's a difference between love and sex. Lobdell's Starfire had nothing to do with love. In fact, she even says sex with a Tamaranean has nothing to do with love. That's the complete OPPOSITE of what's been established in the past. She didn't even remember who Roy or any of the Titans were, because Lobdell has stated that suddenly, Tamaraneans have short-term memories. Starfire was completely without emotion in Outlaws, it was "you're a man, I'm a woman, let's have sex and if you don't want to, I'll go find another man to have sex with." She's being portrayed essentially as a cat in heat.


EDIT: I think they've blocked the image completely now from being hosted, probably too many people doing it. Anyway, for those new to this thread, the image above is of Starfire dressed in nothing but a button-down shirt and explaining to Dick what love means to Tamaraneans.

Mwynn
09-26-2011, 10:02 AM
I can't see the panel myself, the image is broken, so I have no idea what the panel is of. But Red Hood and the Outlaws is definitely not the correct depiction of Starfire.



Look at the key word there: "emotionally." There's a difference between love and sex. Lobdell's Starfire had nothing to do with love. In fact, she even says sex with a Tamaranean has nothing to do with love. That's the complete OPPOSITE of what's been established in the past. She didn't even remember who Roy or any of the Titans were, because Lobdell has stated that suddenly, Tamaraneans have short-term memories. Starfire was completely without emotion in Outlaws, it was "you're a man, I'm a woman, let's have sex and if you don't want to, I'll go find another man to have sex with." She's being portrayed essentially as a cat in heat.

Yes, it is amazing what people can figure out by actually reading the books, and not just going by reviews or hearsay on the internet. What Lobdell had Starfire saying was bad, yet the worse part was the offer was accepted. This maybe the fastest character change between issues ever. I do not think DC liked what was in this issue. Now we need to wonder how it got past the editor.