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tsbelementman
07-15-2011, 08:17 PM
I wanna know your thoughts on the death of ultimate spiderman and how you feel about marvel rebooting it. I think its a money scam ultimate spiderman sales were going down a bit but they were still high. So marvel puts out anew series and if you look its under the top five subscrpitions. I mean we dont even know who this knew spiderman is.

Biofungus
07-15-2011, 09:52 PM
I'm a bit confused. It seems Ultimate Spidey died like twice in the past month. In the Ultimates vs. Ultimate Avengers, they said he fell off a bridge or got caught in a bridge explosion or something, but in his own comic he got the piss beat out of him by Green Goblin.

And this other Spidey is Korean I think?

Evan Henry
07-15-2011, 10:19 PM
Whatever. "Ultimate Death of Spider-Man Ultimate Avengers vs. New Ultimates" is thee best title of a comic in the history of comics. Who gives a shit about the story? :D

Troy Wall
07-15-2011, 11:28 PM
And this other Spidey is Korean I think?

Nah, that's a character called the Spider that Miller created in Ultimate Avengers.

The new Spider-Man will debut in Ultimate Fallout #4.

Troy Wall
07-15-2011, 11:30 PM
I'm a bit confused. It seems Ultimate Spidey died like twice in the past month. In the Ultimates vs. Ultimate Avengers, they said he fell off a bridge or got caught in a bridge explosion or something, but in his own comic he got the piss beat out of him by Green Goblin.

A bullet wound softened Peter up before his smackdown with Norman.. He beat the entire Sinister Six after he was shot and finally Norman proved to be too much.

The punisher accidentally shot Peter when he leapt in front of Captain America.

Evan Henry
07-15-2011, 11:42 PM
A bullet wound softened Peter up before his smackdown with Norman.. He beat the entire Sinister Six after he was shot and finally Norman proved to be too much.

The punisher accidentally shot Peter when he leapt in front of Captain America.

:w00t:

Moonrider
07-20-2011, 02:52 PM
The punisher accidentally shot Peter when he leapt in front of Captain America. >> Out of jealousy?

Duane Korslund
07-20-2011, 02:55 PM
Aweful...is nothing sacred?

Evan Henry
07-20-2011, 05:42 PM
Aweful...is nothing sacred?

Well, proper spelling obviously isn't.

[/facepalm]

Troy Wall
08-02-2011, 06:23 PM
Marvel leaked to USA Today that tomorrow's Ultimate Comics Fallout will reveal that the new Spider-Man is half black / half latino:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/thumbnail.php?file=/assets/images/articles/1312267156.jpg&w=300

Marvel is seeking to reflect America's changing demographics, as stated in this article: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=33673

Lovecraft13
08-02-2011, 06:56 PM
I was hoping he would be Indo-Moroccan. Oh well. Maybe next time Spider-man dies for no reason...

ronin7
08-02-2011, 08:27 PM
Like I said on twitter this a step backwards, bordering on racism. It sends the signal that Brian Bendis and everyone at Marvel thinks minorities have to act white to get anywhere.

CHWolf
08-02-2011, 10:21 PM
"Should we make an interesting new character with his own title who's mixed race?"

"Nah, stick him in this Spidey story, then retcon it."

Troy Wall
08-02-2011, 11:48 PM
Like I said on twitter this a step backwards, bordering on racism. It sends the signal that Brian Bendis and everyone at Marvel thinks minorities have to act white to get anywhere.

I think it's racist to have a stereotype of how white people act. By the way, Bendis is of Jewish heritage and has made two adoptions outside of his race. I think the guy is pretty damn sincere in his efforts toward diversity in real life and in his fiction.

Let's play a game!

ronin7
08-02-2011, 11:52 PM
I think it's racist to have a stereotype of how to "act white".

Let's play a game!

Support the problem, remain ignorant.

I don't know if you are African American, or not, but how would you feel if they killed off your favorite African American hero and made him a white man acting like an African American? If you'd support it, maybe you're the racist.

Troy Wall
08-02-2011, 11:53 PM
I was hoping he would be Indo-Moroccan.

Or at the very least French-Inuit. Jeez, they just HAD to go with the obvious race mixture. :man:

:laugh:

Troy Wall
08-02-2011, 11:57 PM
Support the problem, remain ignorant.

I don't know if you are African American, or not, but how would you feel if they killed off your favorite African American hero and made him a white man acting like an African American? If you'd support it, maybe you're the racist.

I just think you're line of thought is a big stretch. How do you know Miles Morales will, as you define it, "act like a white man"?

CHWolf
08-03-2011, 12:31 AM
I assume (so why chime in, right?) that he means Spider-Man is a well-known hero in the "universe", and this new character will be "acting" as if he's the same Spider-Man, thus pretending to be a previous white character.

Could be wrong.

ronin7
08-03-2011, 12:32 AM
I just think you're line of thought is a big stretch. How do you know Miles Morales will, as you define it, "act like a white man"?

He's wearing a costume established by a middle class white American. It would be something if he took the spider symbol from Pete and became something of his own, to inspire others in his community.

Dressing him up and burying in him Spider-Man's shadow? Yeah, that doesn't reek of racism...

Troy Wall
08-03-2011, 01:23 AM
He's wearing a costume established by a middle class white American. It would be something if he took the spider symbol from Pete and became something of his own, to inspire others in his community.

Dressing him up and burying in him Spider-Man's shadow? Yeah, that doesn't reek of racism...

Hey, he DOES have a new costume.

Anyway, there's two sides to your coin: It could be a good choice to have a black/hispanic character assume the mantle of an already established character in order to allow him greater exposure. Black Panther has never burnt up the sales charts.

Either way, it doesn't reek of racism. The only thing that wasn't in good taste was Marvel leaking the story to the mainstream media. That implies Marvel wants [positive] attention for placing a minority character in Spider-Man's costume. It would have been better to simply let the comics release and let the story speak for itself.

Troy Wall
08-03-2011, 01:26 AM
I assume (so why chime in, right?) that he means Spider-Man is a well-known hero in the "universe", and this new character will be "acting" as if he's the same Spider-Man, thus pretending to be a previous white character.

Could be wrong.

Still. Streeeeeeeeeeetch.

Evan Henry
08-03-2011, 02:31 AM
Here's an idea, Marvel: How about instead of regurgitating the same garbage over and over again, you actually come up with new ideas and maybe even (dramatic gasp) new characters. Because the message you are sending at present is that a minority hero can only be successful following in the footsteps of a white hero.

Good job, guys! :thumbs:

Biofungus
08-03-2011, 02:47 AM
So you're saying they should have come up with...



Blatino Spider-Man?

CHWolf
08-03-2011, 02:56 AM
Hands off "Spinner", "Orb Weaver", or 'Widower" (http://www.heroesandhenchmen.com). >:|

Also "Daddy Long Legs" and "Jumping Spider"... I think I have too many spider-heroes.



Marvel can have "Wolf Spider", ironically.

ronin7
08-03-2011, 09:26 AM
Hey, he DOES have a new costume.

Anyway, there's two sides to your coin: It could be a good choice to have a black/hispanic character assume the mantle of an already established character in order to allow him greater exposure. Black Panther has never burnt up the sales charts.

Either way, it doesn't reek of racism. The only thing that wasn't in good taste was Marvel leaking the story to the mainstream media. That implies Marvel wants [positive] attention for placing a minority character in Spider-Man's costume. It would have been better to simply let the comics release and let the story speak for itself.

And why has Black Panther never burnt up the charts? Oh, yes! Lack of the same promotion that Spider-Man and Wolverine enjoy, African American creators like Christopher Priest ignored when he suggests ideas to bring up the character's value. Hell, I didn't like the Black Panther/Storm idea, but under Priest, he could have made it work.

It seems to me Marvel is always going to be chasing trends instead of being ahead of the curve like Stan Lee was back in the 60's.

Lovecraft13
08-03-2011, 02:32 PM
I liked how they said this wasn't a publicity stunt. Sure it's not, just like how everything in wrestling isn't a work. That's why I like the Ultimate line, it's like a dinner side dish. You want steak, you start with Peter Parker. If you're still hungry, nibble on Miles Morales until you're bored.

Biofungus
08-03-2011, 11:19 PM
I liked how they said this wasn't a publicity stunt. Sure it's not, just like how everything in wrestling isn't a work. That's why I like the Ultimate line, it's like a dinner side dish. You want steak, you start with Peter Parker. If you're still hungry, nibble on Miles Morales until you're bored.
You mean, they meant to kill Owen? :eek:

Moonrider
08-09-2011, 06:40 AM
They already have a non-white, well written, non-stereotypical Spider-Man whose ethnic background only enriches the dynamic of his character. It's just that he's on DC Comics, named Jaime Reyes, and called Blue Beetle.

Just sayin', I think DC has better vision of diversity than Marvel.

Evan Henry
08-09-2011, 06:43 AM
They already have a non-white, well written, non-stereotypical Spider-Man whose ethnic background only enriches the dynamic of his character. It's just that he's on DC Comics, named Jaime Reyes, and called Blue Beetle.

Just sayin', I think DC has better vision of diversity than Marvel.

Marvel has more of a long-term track record with it, though, I think. Even going back to the '70s, when it wasn't "cool", with Blade and Power Man and War Machine. Shang-Chi (though I guess you could chock that up to the martial arts craze back then) and even Falcon and Black Panther.

And this is coming from a guy who has hated Marvel for the past five years.

tsbelementman
08-09-2011, 08:30 PM
blue beetle sucks and the new spidey miles morales is
AWESOME

ronin7
08-10-2011, 01:18 PM
blue beetle sucks and the new spidey miles morales is
AWESOME

Okay Bendis, you can stop tooting your horn under fake names :har:

tsbelementman
08-10-2011, 08:48 PM
How did you find out?!

ronin7
08-11-2011, 08:42 AM
How did you find out?!

Your notorious bad spelling :har:

ronin7
08-11-2011, 05:50 PM
But seriously, glad to see another indie creator here, tsbelementman :thumbs:

tsbelementman
08-11-2011, 09:16 PM
Same here.

Moonrider
08-25-2011, 03:13 AM
Marvel has more of a long-term track record with it, though, I think. Even going back to the '70s, when it wasn't "cool", with Blade and Power Man and War Machine. Shang-Chi (though I guess you could chock that up to the martial arts craze back then) and even Falcon and Black Panther.

And this is coming from a guy who has hated Marvel for the past five years.

Aside from War Machine and Blade, most of those Marvel characters were playing from stereotypes. Marvel's recent creation that I really liked was Faiza Hussain from MI13. I think she's a spot on depiction of a modern, working class Muslim woman that I can identify with. Um... Not that I'm also a modern, working class Muslim woman, mind you. :p

CHWolf
08-25-2011, 04:16 AM
Yeah, I wasn't going to dig into this before, but...

Blade - Not a super-hero.*
Shang-Chi - Not a super-hero.*
Falcon - Sidekick to white dude.
War Machine - Sidekick to white dude who "created" him.
Power Man - ... "and Iron Fist".
Black Panther - Closest on the list, I suppose, to an actual "super-hero" in his own right. I'm out of touch with modern "big two" comics, so I'm assuming he's still the same guy today, eh?


When you get into the lack of proper representation, that is - powerful, costumed, ethnic Marvel heroes who didn't have to rely on a white character to create/train/employ them and are the 'star' of their adventures, it's kind of... confusing.



*Going with the basic premise of "super powers AND an actual super-hero costume."

Evan Henry
08-25-2011, 04:20 AM
Black Panther - Closest on the list, I suppose, to an actual "super-hero" in his own right. I'm out of touch with modern "big two" comics, so I'm assuming he's still the same guy today, eh?

I think he was Daredevil AND Black Panther for a while (figure that one out). Not sure what he's up to right now.

And, yeah, some of Marvel's minority characters were stereotypes and stuff like that, but at least they HAD them before 1993.

CHWolf
08-25-2011, 04:23 AM
Just don't look at how they were written before 1993! :D Heh.

Evan Henry
08-25-2011, 04:26 AM
Yes. :laugh:

ronin7
08-25-2011, 09:54 AM
You forgot Night Thrasher. For a good period of the nighties, he had his own solo series, was leader of the New Warriors, and more than one mini-series. Sadly, no one has fleshed him out further.

RandallFlagg
08-25-2011, 10:54 AM
What about Captain Marvel? Granted she wasn't really fleshed out that much until Nextwave, but she was still there. Then there's Bishop, Cloak, Prowler, and Storm that I can think of off-hand.

Moonrider
08-25-2011, 01:58 PM
How come nobody reacted this harsh with Miguel O'Hara, AKA Spider-man 2099? Was he a 'white enough' character, complexion-wise?