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Allegory Comics
05-31-2011, 06:32 PM
In the wake of its summer "Flashpoint" event, DC Comics will re-number its entire superhero line, debuting more than 50 first issues in September while introducing "a more modern, diverse DC Universe."

The sweeping line-wide change debuts on Aug. 31, when the pubisher releases just two comics -- the final issue of "Flashpoint," and the first issue of "Justice League," under the new creative team of Geoff Johns and Jim Lee.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=32563

People are getting very upset about this. The general assumption is that all of DC books are going back to #1, but it doesn't actually say that. It just says they are launching a "new universe" of younger characters -- all beginning with #1.

If they are, indeed, restarting all of their existing titles, then it goes without saying that this is fleeting. With ACTION and DETECTIVE so close to historic #1000, they won't abandon this close to that landmark issue.

I have feeling this will be the start of DC's Ulitmate-equivilant universe. Following this summer's FLASHPOINT, they could play it like STAR TREK. The timeline is altered and creates an alternate history allowing for an all-new, separate universe spinning from that moment; while the existing universe also returns to status quo.

What do you think is going on? Will this be a rebranding of their existing books or the launch of a new, separate universe?

Evan Henry
05-31-2011, 06:47 PM
Oh, shit. The only thing that gives me even a sliver of hope about this is the fact that Geoff Johns is involved...

Evan Henry
05-31-2011, 06:53 PM
By the way, what ever happened to that Red Lantern series they were supposed to be doing? I have to assume they knew about this back when they were planning that, so you may be right about this not being a full Crisis-style "reset". Although fifty new #1s certainly sounds a bit bigger than the Ultimate line by a factor of a score or so.

Allegory Comics
05-31-2011, 07:00 PM
The biggest variable for me is Batman.

If this is a new, ongoing (separate) universe, how will they treat Batman? I won't post spoilers but Bruce Wayne is not Batman in the Flashpoint universe. Also, you'll notice Batman is NOT in that promo picture on CBR.

I can't imagine a long-term Ultimate DC universe without Bruce Wayne as Batman. So if this is a new universe, then how will they address that?

On the other hand, if it's not an ongoing Ultimate-style universe, then it really won't matter what they do because it will all be over and back to normal inside 6 months.

Evan Henry
05-31-2011, 07:04 PM
On the other hand, if it's not an ongoing Ultimate-style universe, then it really won't matter what they do because it will all be over and back to normal inside 6 months.
^I'm going with this. I don't see any way something this big can co-exist alongside the regular DCU. Marvel managed it with the Ultimate line because they always kept things reasonably small, but I seriously doubt anything this big is intended to not replace the current universe. No way in hell they renumber either Action Comics or Detective Comics. I'd wager they won't renumber Superman or Batman either, though they may renumber them at first and then go back after a year or so like they did with Adventure.

JamieRoberts
05-31-2011, 07:09 PM
Seems to me that this is Heroes Reborn more than Ultimate, in that there's no 'safety net' regular version of the characters to fall back on if it goes badly, at least initially. And Jim Lee's drawing a major team.

Evan Henry
05-31-2011, 07:16 PM
Our characters are always being updated; however, this is the first time all of our characters will be presented in a new way all at once.

Umm.... :huh:

Troy Wall
05-31-2011, 08:24 PM
The biggest variable for me is Batman.

If this is a new, ongoing (separate) universe, how will they treat Batman? I won't post spoilers but Bruce Wayne is not Batman in the Flashpoint universe. Also, you'll notice Batman is NOT in that promo picture on CBR.

I can't imagine a long-term Ultimate DC universe without Bruce Wayne as Batman. So if this is a new universe, then how will they address that?

On the other hand, if it's not an ongoing Ultimate-style universe, then it really won't matter what they do because it will all be over and back to normal inside 6 months.

Bruce Wayne will be Batman. The Flashpoint universe that's currently being shown in the DC universe won't be the universe used for the line wide relaunches. They'll do something akin to the universe mash-ups featured in the Crisis stories.

Bah! What I'm trying to say is that some big cosmic catastrophe at the end of Flashpoint will give birth to the new universe that the relaunches are set in.

Who knew the Reverse-Flash packed the power to reset all of DC's titles to #1? ;) This could easily turn out to be DC's "Heroes Reborn" if not executed fucking BEYOND perfectly. Hey, they both have a super strong faith in Jim Lee in common! I'm not big on his redesigns, but they don't exactly bother me. I like that Supes is losing the red underoos, but no way the new chest "S" emblem will stick. That thur is far too iconic.

Evan Henry
05-31-2011, 08:26 PM
Bruce Wayne will be Batman. The Flashpoint universe that's currently being shown in the DC universe won't be the universe used for the line wide relaunches. They'll do something akin to the universe mash-ups featured in the Crisis stories.

Bah! What I'm trying to say is that some big cosmic catastrophe at the end of Flashpoint will give birth to the new universe that the relaunches are set in.
So, basically, instead of wasting our time, DC should have just renamed Flashpoint to "Sorta-Finite-Semi-Catastrophic-Not-Entirely-Unoriginal-Maxi-Mega-Crisis-Like Event" from the beginning.

Troy Wall
05-31-2011, 08:30 PM
So, basically, instead of wasting our time, DC should have just renamed Flashpoint to "Sorta-Infinite-Semi-Catastrophic-Not-Entirely-Unoriginal-Maxi-Mega-Crisis-Like Event" from the beginning.

Right. Or "We-hated-Grant Morrison's-Final-Crisis-And-It-Didn't-Turn-Out-Like-We-Wanted-But-Grant-Is-Too-High-Profile-To-Boss-Around-Now-Do-Our-Bidding-Geoff Johns CRISIS!"

Allegory Comics
05-31-2011, 08:33 PM
Bruce Wayne will be Batman. The Flashpoint universe that's currently being shown in the DC universe won't be the universe used for the line wide relaunches. They'll do something akin to the universe mash-ups featured in the Crisis stories.
Yeah, if they keep this as an ongoing "Ultimate DC" (for lack of a better title so far) I'm sure they will reconcile the Batman dilemma and restore Bruce to the cowl. I'm just not sure how, and that remains the biggest unknown.

Evan Henry
05-31-2011, 08:35 PM
Yeah, if they keep this as an ongoing "Ultimate DC" (for lack of a better title so far) I'm sure they will reconcile the Batman dilemma and restore Bruce to the cowl. I'm just not sure how, and that remains the biggest unknown.
I really don't see this being in any way "Ultimate". This is just 1986 all over again.

Evan Henry
05-31-2011, 08:51 PM
Here's a theory: This whole reboot thing is spinning out of the "Earth One" graphic novels, hence the reference to younger, more modern characters.

Which means at some point, we will see hoody Superman.

Allegory Comics
05-31-2011, 09:15 PM
"Hoody Superman" never existed anywhere but on the E1 cover, as Clark was changing into Superman. It's not like the Superman costume ever had a hoody in that version. And I don't think this will be that, because the costumes are totally different. And we know already that this is tied to FLASHPOINT, which so far doesn't have any ties to E1.

As for this being 1986-Crisis all over again ... that was a permanent change of their entire solo universe. I doubt very seriously that's what this will be. This will either be a temporary rebranding of their current universe (gone in 6 months) or a new, separate ongoing universe. Either way, I don't see this permanently replacing the current universe the way CRISIS did in 86.

Evan Henry
05-31-2011, 09:18 PM
"Hoody Superman" never existed anywhere but on the E1 cover, as Clark was changing into Superman. It's not like the Superman costume ever had a hoody in that version.
Didn't know that. Probably because I didn't read it.

And I'm not convinced that this is actually tied to the Flashpoint universe in any way. As far as I can tell, Flashpoint is just the mechanism they are using to reorganize their line, the same as Crisis was in '86. This is not going to be the Flashpoint universe or any variant thereof. I would bet all my marbles on that.

As for this being 1986-Crisis all over again ... that was a permanent change of their entire solo universe. I doubt very seriously that's what this will be.
I think that's exactly what this is. It's not just a rebranding of the current universe. DC may be getting more gimmick-prone every day, but fifty new number-ones is just too damn big for something that's not a total reboot.

ronin7
05-31-2011, 09:56 PM
Actually, on twitter DC confirmed it IS a major rebranding of their entire universe. They are throwing the entire continuity into the trash, and starting from scratch.

Evan Henry
05-31-2011, 09:58 PM
http://i.newsarama.com/images/dc-new-justice-league-lee-big.jpg
Why the hell isn't GL wearing a ring here?

Allegory Comics
05-31-2011, 10:04 PM
Actually, on twitter DC confirmed it IS a major rebranding of their entire universe. They are throwing the entire continuity into the trash, and starting from scratch.
It absolutely is a major rebranding of their unvierse. But so was the Ultimate universe. Just because it's a rebranding of their universe doesn't mean it will replace the current universe. It just means it's a new look at their universe and characters.

That said, I think it probably *will* replace their current universe. I'm hoping that it won't. I'm hoping it's more like the Ultimate concept of rebranding, but I would not be at all suprised if this replaces their current continuity.

But if they do replace the current line, it will only be temporary. There is NO WAY IN HELL this will be the new standard longterm DC universe like Crisis did.

Evan Henry
05-31-2011, 10:08 PM
But so was the Ultimate universe. Just because it's a rebranding of their universe doesn't mean it will replace the current universe. It just means it's a new look at their universe and characters.

That said, I think it probably *will* replace their current universe. I'm hoping that it won't. I'm hoping it's more like the Ultimate concept of rebranding, but I would not be at all suprised if this replaces their current continuity.

But if they do replace the current line, it will only be temporary. There is NO WAY IN HELL this will be the new standard longterm DC universe like Crisis did.
I'm thinking this will be more like Infinite Crisis than the original Crisis. I.e., the stories won't be started from scratch a la Year One or Man of Steel, but the writers will get an opportunity to screw up continuity a bit more.

Either way, this will be a different universe than the one we have now. The only question is how different it'll be. Now let's put Grant Morrison on a Hawkman title and watch the insanity ensue. ;)

Evan Henry
05-31-2011, 11:57 PM
CBR and IGN are saying the following Re: Titles and creative teams

-A Superman title written by Grant Morrison.

-Wonder Woman #1 with a new creative team and none of the JMS changes.

-Green Lantern #1 with Geoff Johns still at the helm and the effects of Blackest Night still intact. Meaning, most likely, the multiple corps.

-Hawkman #1 by James Robinson.

-Justice Society of America #1 with a new creative team.

-Birds of Prey #1 without fan-favorite writer Gail Simone.

-Teen Titans #1 spearheaded by Fabian Nicieza.


I like most all of these, particularly GL and Hawkman. I'm looking forward to see what they do with the JSA as well. I'm not the biggest Morrison fan, so him on Superman isn't really thrilling me.

jeffo46
06-01-2011, 11:06 AM
Shit like this, is why I don't waste my cash on comics anymore as far as current stuff is concerned. I'll stick with collecting Silver age thank you.

Mwynn
06-01-2011, 11:31 AM
Shit like this, is why I don't waste my cash on comics anymore as far as current stuff is concerned. I'll stick with collecting Silver age thank you.
Why? Seems like they are trying to bring in new readers, and not saddle them with 60+ years of continuity.

ronin7
06-01-2011, 11:40 AM
Why? Seems like they are trying to bring in new readers, and not saddle them with 60+ years of continuity.


The thing is the same creators in charge who say continuity is a problem, MAKE continuity a problem. Geoff Johns most especially is guilty of bringing up obscure crap and giving it an Alan Moore psycho-cynical twist.

DC should be focusing on writing good stories, and treat each story as single story with an ongoing subplot. The same for Marvel. Not treating each issue as a long form running episode of some soap opera with extensive continuity baggage.

Evan Henry
06-01-2011, 11:54 AM
The thing is the same creators in charge who say continuity is a problem, MAKE continuity a problem. Geoff Johns most especially is guilty of bringing up obscure crap and giving it an Alan Moore psycho-cynical twist.

DC should be focusing on writing good stories, and treat each story as single story with an ongoing subplot. The same for Marvel. Not treating each issue as a long form running episode of some soap opera with extensive continuity baggage.
http://fourcolorheroes.home.insightbb.com/twilightfree.html

^Read the first section of that to hear a genius-level smackdown on the pros and cons of continuity in comics.

Justice41
06-01-2011, 02:02 PM
Jim Lee has ADD and ADHD. Also his designs are crap.

Evan Henry
06-01-2011, 03:11 PM
Here's a high-res version of the JL cover. Can someone please tell me what the hell is on Flash's chin? :yuk:

http://i.newsarama.com/images/JL_Cv1.jpg

SDulaney
06-02-2011, 01:13 PM
First 10 new #1s are announced and at least a couple of DW alumni are going to be involved.

Yildray Cinar on Fury of Firestorm

Freddie Williams on Captain Atom

Ten down, 42 to go...

The Art Keeper
06-02-2011, 01:27 PM
Here's a high-res version of the JL cover. Can someone please tell me what the hell is on Flash's chin? :yuk:

http://i.newsarama.com/images/JL_Cv1.jpg


it's a speed strap for his chin, aerodynamics. but why does green lantern have a machine gun penis?

Biofungus
06-03-2011, 12:27 AM
Because he has one in the upcoming movie.

Biofungus
06-03-2011, 12:30 AM
Why the hell isn't GL wearing a ring here?

I'm rather curious about that too. I get the feeling the "ring" is his symbol (notice how it sticks out more as if it was a chest plate of some sort).

Justice41
06-03-2011, 12:34 AM
it was forgotten, just look at the lines leading from where the ring would be. funny where lee decided to put that gun.

Evan Henry
06-03-2011, 12:35 AM
I'm rather curious about that too. I get the feeling the "ring" is his symbol (notice how it sticks out more as if it was a chest plate of some sort).

Ew.


Just.


Ew.

jeffers
06-03-2011, 02:03 AM
So, everyone got collars, Supes lost the red drawers and went "Twlight." Oh, and Cyborg looks like he caught something from banging the back end of a F-15 (seriously, what's with all the flaps?). As designs go...meh.

I get that they want to tie-in to what the movies are doing, but if the unbelievably non-canonical "X-Men: First Class" (or as my shop owner Mark calls it "FoX-Men") has taught us anything, it's that there's a growing disconnect between the books and the films. Personally I rather the two exist separately. So long as they get the characterizations right, I'm much more interested in a filmmaker coming in, playing with the mythos and coming up with his own story than watch a story bogged down by continuity and easter eggs ("X-Men The Last Stand" for example).

Try some new things with some old characters? Cool. Want to give a talented team a shot, Hell, that's how we got Morrison's and Waid's JLA runs. But didn't DC just re-whatever Wonder Woman not 12 months ago? Really, is it that time again??

I'm just kinda tired of mainstream comics doing this time and time again, giving us just a few issues to appreciate a good story and some character development before the next annual crossover comes in and then another and then another until, hey, time for a relaunch. Back to No. 1. The last two years? That was all a dream, Patrick Duffy-style, except everyone else remembers. But don't worry. Jim Lee's doing all new costumes. You'll love it.

Thanks, DC, but no thanks. With the exception of Green Lantern, you can keep the rest. Except Cyborg. Get him on "The Biggest Loser," will ya?

P.S. Interestingly enough, Wizard did a story WAY back in the day (ca. 2002, There's a joke there but it's just too easy) about a Ultimate DC universe with some kick-ass art. I found the pics online. Tell me which ones you like more...

Here's "Ultimate" Bats (you can see some of the similarities b/t this and David Finch's (can someone check that? Thanks.) recent redesign for Batman Inc.

http://hallofheroes.free.fr/Images/UltimateDC/batman.jpg

Here's the Flash. I know the mask is just too different for corporate, but it beats the chin strap:

http://hallofheroes.free.fr/Images/UltimateDC/flash.jpg

Here's Supes. No, you can't change the logo that much, but if you're looking to lose the undies, this is how you do it. Also, notice how he looks like a grown man:

http://hallofheroes.free.fr/Images/UltimateDC/superman.jpg

Here's GL: Now remember this was drawn in 2002, and I think "Justice League," was on Cartoon Network back then...

http://hallofheroes.free.fr/Images/UltimateDC/greenlantern.jpg

"Ultimate" Wonder Woman. Yup, I think we know who wins.

http://hallofheroes.free.fr/Images/UltimateDC/wonderwoman.jpg

The Justice League (first one in Cartoon Network style)

http://hallofheroes.free.fr/Images/UltimateDC/jla.jpg

http://hallofheroes.free.fr/Images/UltimateDC/jla2.jpg

And finally, cuz I do love "Young Justice" and "Teen Titans"...

http://hallofheroes.free.fr/Images/UltimateDC/teentitans.jpg


Notice the streamline Cyborg. Yeah, the dreads look bad. But still...

Evan Henry
06-03-2011, 05:24 AM
http://hallofheroes.free.fr/Images/UltimateDC/jla.jpg

Who's that misshapen creature on the left?

Mwynn
06-03-2011, 08:01 AM
I'm rather curious about that too. I get the feeling the "ring" is his symbol (notice how it sticks out more as if it was a chest plate of some sort).

Lee drew it, the inker forgot about it.

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/Jolt17/news/?a=38551

http://media.comicbookmovie.com/images/users/gallerypictures/30265L.jpg

N Hammer
06-03-2011, 09:16 AM
Who's that misshapen creature on the left?

Martian Manhunter??? Guess we will find our eventually

Allegory Comics
06-03-2011, 10:45 AM
Martian Manhunter??? Guess we will find our eventually
Yeah, it's Manhunter. But remember: those are not the new DC books. Those are just Wizard "Ultimate DC" designs they published about 10 years ago -- just for fun. Those are not going to be part of the DC reboot.

ronin7
06-03-2011, 05:34 PM
I see the glow from the ring on his right hand, but no ring. I think Jim Lee drew this in a hurry and didn't bother to fact check.

Mwynn
06-03-2011, 06:32 PM
I see the glow from the ring on his right hand, but no ring. I think Jim Lee drew this in a hurry and didn't bother to fact check.

What glow on his right hand?

loki5
06-05-2011, 12:17 PM
First 10 new #1s are announced and at least a couple of DW alumni are going to be involved.

Yildray Cinar on Fury of Firestorm

Freddie Williams on Captain Atom

Ten down, 42 to go...

I took a guess as to what all 52 titles are going to be at this post on my blog: The great 21st century DC Comics reboot 52 title Guess-a-palooza (http://www.ferretpress.com/blog/2011/06/02/the-great-21st-century-dc-comics-reboot-52-title-guess-a-palooza/)

Since the time I posted it, they've announced the 4 Green lantern related books, and I was right about them (I know, not too hard to call those). We'll see how I do as the rest are announced.

Feel free to share your guesses in the comments thread of my post, or right here. Regardless of how you feel about the "re-launch" it's fun to try and guess the titles.

Allegory Comics
06-05-2011, 01:49 PM
A friend of mind said the DC subscriptions dept told him they would be issuing checks to subscribers refunding the remainder of their order for all of their cancelled titles.

Then Dan DiDio replied to me on FB, kindly offering:
the one thing I will state is one line, one universe and one focus. we are trying to united the fans not divide them by worlds and generations.

on a separate note, I do enjoy when people state that we are close to ACTION's 1,000th issue. with monthly schedules, thats over eight years away. everything we are doing is to insure that we are still publishing comics eight years from now.
If he's to be believed (and I do believe him, coupled with refund subscription rumors) ... this will not be the Ultimate DC. That's a shame. It could have been a great opportunity for DC to inject new life without alienating existing readers.

Now there are only two options left.

1) This will permanently replace the DCU and become the new standard for their universe -- and I don't believe it for one second, regardless how much DiDio and DC insist that it's true.

2) This will temporarily replace the DCU and be undone in 6-9 months, with a few minor, lasting effects in the titles as most of them (certainly Action and Detective) go back to original numbering and back to the general universe and status quo from which they started.

Of the two options, I have to say it's #2, and I think fans will be pissed that DC is doing this AGAIN. It gets old. Every few years they try to do this. They tell us "nothing will ever be the same" and they give a year-long series with spinoffs and tie-ins and arcs in each of their monthlies ... and then it ends and (despite their assertations to the contrary) things are almost EXACTLY the same again.

Storytelling is about establishing a status quo, disrupting it, and restoring it again. The characters learn and grow a little, but their world is pretty much restored to what it was before they started. So I'm not mad that DC is shaking up their universe. I'm actually more curious, and hoping for the best. This is going to be either pretty good, or epic fail. We don't have enough information to call this election yet.

But I am a little annoyed that they can't come up with anything new. It's always the same "never be the same" schtick.

I think this is why comics are selling badly. They may be attracting new readers, but they're losing longtime readers at a much greater rate, resulting in an overall loss. And when all those longtime fans are gone, all they'll be left with are passive, transient readers who are not invested and on whom they can't predict sales.

And that will be what finally kills the medium: trading-in faithful fans and quality storytelling for new, apathetic readers and a quick buck.

Evan Henry
06-05-2011, 11:06 PM
I'm just all kinds of confused over this. Here's a few predictions:

1. Very little continuity is changed. Mayhap we get a few re-done origins, and the costume redesigns, but DC loves Geoff Johns too much to nuke the past six years of GL into non-existence.

2. Action Comics stays renumbered very briefly, maybe a year. DC wants to publish a #1000, and they're not going to pass up an opportunity to do so. My bet is on Detective Comics, Superman, Batman, and Adventure (if it survives) going back to the original numbering eventually as well.

3. Half (at least) of these 52 new series die before issue 20.

4. Probably a reduced number of "family" titles, particularly in the Superman and Batman worlds. I'm also suspecting a possible non-Batman-related Detective Comics.

5. New Shazam title!!!!!!!!!!! (hopefully Johns/Ordway)

In any case, this will look like a blip on the radar in five years. I'm pretty damn sure I was wrong in thinking this was a total Crisis-style reboot. It's just a sales maneuver, nothing more.

Evan Henry
06-05-2011, 11:13 PM
Also, maybe a non-Vertigo Hellblazer ongoing? :huh: (See end of Brightest Day)

EDIT: Maybe a Spectre title too (possible co-feature with Legion in Adventure Comics?). I'd like very much to see that.

EDIT #2: Am I the only one who would kill to see a First Wave: Batman title?

Mwynn
06-06-2011, 12:15 AM
I'm just all kinds of confused over this. Here's a few predictions:

1. Very little continuity is changed. Mayhap we get a few re-done origins, and the costume redesigns, but DC loves Geoff Johns too much to nuke the past six years of GL into non-existence.

.

One of the new books is Red Lanterns.

Moonrider
06-06-2011, 06:43 AM
So whatever happened to that Batman Earth One project? Did it ever come out? That Batman design sure look a lot like it, and Superman look a lot younger. Could it be that they decided to turn the whole Earth One line into their main continuity?

Evan Henry
06-06-2011, 06:52 AM
So whatever happened to that Batman Earth One project? Did it ever come out? That Batman design sure look a lot like it, and Superman look a lot younger. Could it be that they decided to turn the whole Earth One line into their main continuity?

IGN mentioned that the Earth One GNs (Batman due out in October, I think) could become like new Year Ones for this continuity. I think there's a good chance of it.

Moonrider
06-06-2011, 07:15 AM
What glow on his right hand?

It's a simple mistake. The inker thought the energy that construct the guns came out of Hal's left hand, because Jim didn't draw the energy coming out of the ring explicitly (no ring glow) and there are glows on his left hand that can easily be mistaken for a ring glow. Since the inker thought the ring is on the left hand instead of the right, the ring on the right hand is not drawn.

loki5
06-06-2011, 09:13 AM
Also, maybe a non-Vertigo Hellblazer ongoing? :huh: (See end of Brightest Day)

EDIT: Maybe a Spectre title too (possible co-feature with Legion in Adventure Comics?). I'd like very much to see that.

EDIT #2: Am I the only one who would kill to see a First Wave: Batman title?

I don't think we're going to see a reduction in the "family" titles. Certainly not Batman. And Green Lantern has already been announced at 4 different titles (includes Red Lantern).

Here are a few of the new titles I guessed (as part of my blog post I mentioned earlier):

Swamp Thing (I mean, they did just bring him back into the DCU)
Steel (cool character, out of the spotlight too long)
Blue Beetle (possibly team-up w/ Booster Gold)
Ambush Bug (or some kind of humor book)
Sgt. Rock (or some kind of war book)
Shazam
Hawk & Dove (see: Brightest Day)

Mwynn
06-06-2011, 09:15 AM
It's a simple mistake. The inker thought the energy that construct the guns came out of Hal's left hand, because Jim didn't draw the energy coming out of the ring explicitly (no ring glow) and there are glows on his left hand that can easily be mistaken for a ring glow. Since the inker thought the ring is on the left hand instead of the right, the ring on the right hand is not drawn.

Look again at the pencil the ring is visible on the right hand. As for the colored art the glow on the left hand, is coming from the weapon construct.

Evan Henry
06-06-2011, 09:28 AM
Watch. This. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpUh_Yl49l4)

WOLVIE
06-06-2011, 02:15 PM
Same old crap over and over and over. How is this original or innovative? Now you know why kids don't read comics anymore.

Mwynn
06-06-2011, 03:04 PM
Same old crap over and over and over. How is this original or innovative? Now you know why kids don't read comics anymore.

What would you suggest they do?

WOLVIE
06-06-2011, 04:06 PM
What would you suggest they do?

I have an idea, maybe they should create brand 'new' characters. Some of these charactes are over 40 years old. Come on, do kids these days really give a sh@t about the Flash or Green Lantern. They rather play the next 'Grand Theft Auto' than see the Flash travel back in time for the 18th million time. Seriously, it's time to put them to bed.


Also, get rid of paper comics and kill the last remaining comic book stores. Sorry to say, but digital comics is the future.

Allegory Comics
06-06-2011, 05:14 PM
Also, get rid of paper comics and kill the last remaining comic book stores. Sorry to say, but digital comics is the future.
Yeah! They should make all of their comics available in digital format for downloading the same day they are released in shops. That way at least people can have a choice, and it would show that DC "gets it" and recognizes the future of digital publishing.

You should write them and ask why they aren't doing this already!

:slap:

ronin7
06-06-2011, 05:20 PM
Yeah! They should make all of their comics available in digital format for downloading the same day they are released in shops. That way at least people can have a choice, and it would show that DC "gets it" and recognizes the future of digital publishing.

You should write them and ask why they aren't doing this already!

:slap:

Piracy is what will hinder and perhaps hurt comic publishers when it comes to digital comics.

Mwynn
06-06-2011, 05:25 PM
I have an idea, maybe they should create brand 'new' characters. Some of these charactes are over 40 years old. Come on, do kids these days really give a sh@t about the Flash or Green Lantern. They rather play the next 'Grand Theft Auto' than see the Flash travel back in time for the 18th million time. Seriously, it's time to put them to bed.


Also, get rid of paper comics and kill the last remaining comic book stores. Sorry to say, but digital comics is the future.

There were quite a few new characters created recently, just in the Green Lantern books. So mission accomplished there. As for the 40 years comment, the two most recognizable characters in mainstream are Superman and Spider-man. The Flash and Green Lantern comment was that a question? Green Lantern has been one of the most popular books on the market for a few years now. GL is going to be all over the place when the movie comes out. Again you want them to put to bed money making concepts, why? You did not come up with anything better to do than what they are trying. I will ignore the last comment you made, because that would cause people to lose their jobs.

Mwynn
06-06-2011, 05:26 PM
Yeah! They should make all of their comics available in digital format for downloading the same day they are released in shops. That way at least people can have a choice, and it would show that DC "gets it" and recognizes the future of digital publishing.

You should write them and ask why they aren't doing this already!

:slap:

What is the craziness you speak of, that would never work. No one should have any choices. :laugh:

WOLVIE
06-06-2011, 06:14 PM
What is the craziness you speak of, that would never work. No one should have any choices. :laugh:

Thats fine. Adapt or become obsolete. :laugh:

Mwynn
06-06-2011, 08:19 PM
Nightwing is back.

http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/files/2011/06/ntw_cv1.jpg

Evan Henry
06-06-2011, 08:21 PM
Thats fine. Adapt or become obsolete. :laugh:

Adaptation is one thing. Shooting your long-time readers in the ass and throwing them off a cliff, which is what you seem to be advocating, is a whole 'nother. I agree that the comics industry needs more innovation, but doing away with the characters that have proved to be financially successful for the past seventy years is not the answer.

These characters (most of them, anyway) have made it this long because there is something in them that resonates with the reader. They are manifestations of archetypes that have been around since the dawn of human history. Any failure to reach readers or make stories relevant to them is the fault of unoriginal writing and/or corporate mismanagement, not of the characters.

Allegory Comics
06-06-2011, 08:47 PM
Nightwing is back.

And Damien is Robin. So where's Tim? Does this mean they're keeping Red Robin, too?

It also looks like Barbara is back as Batgirl.

Mwynn
06-06-2011, 08:48 PM
If you are throwing away older characters and bringing in new ones, you need to find a way to sell them to a mainstream audience. You need to sell, movies, toys, games, etc. How do you reach them with John Doe that has zero history.

The list of mainstream characters is a short one, and the average person could not tell you which was Dc or Marvel.

Spider-man, Hulk, Wolverine, Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman. Would be mainstream characters. There are a few on the cusp of getting there Green Lantern, Captain America, and Iron man. What do all these characters have in common? All created more than 40 years ago. With Wolverine at 37 years. The only character I would say is even close to reaching mainstream status would probably be Deadpool and he was created 20 years ago.

Mwynn
06-06-2011, 09:01 PM
Red Hood and the Outlaws

http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/files/2011/06/red_hood_cv1_r1.jpg

Allegory Comics
06-06-2011, 09:02 PM
George Perez writing Superman?

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/06/06/dc-relaunch-george-perez-to-write-and-draw-superman-1/

Evan Henry
06-06-2011, 09:06 PM
George Perez writing Superman?

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/06/06/dc-relaunch-george-perez-to-write-and-draw-superman-1/

:bounce::bounce::bounce:

Mwynn
06-06-2011, 09:07 PM
And Damien is Robin. So where's Tim? Does this mean they're keeping Red Robin, too?

It also looks like Barbara is back as Batgirl.

Barbara as Batgirl should be very interesting. Hopefully they play her as being very rusty.

Evan Henry
06-06-2011, 09:08 PM
It also looks like Barbara is back as Batgirl.

I'm diggin' Nightwing, but this one is just confusing me...

Troy Wall
06-06-2011, 10:50 PM
Batman, Inc. will wrap in August and relaunch next year for a final 12 issue run, reported Grant Morrison today.

Paul Sanderson
06-07-2011, 12:14 AM
A friend of mind said the DC subscriptions dept told him they would be issuing checks to subscribers refunding the remainder of their order for all of their cancelled titles.

Then Dan DiDio replied to me on FB, kindly offering:

If he's to be believed (and I do believe him, coupled with refund subscription rumors) ... this will not be the Ultimate DC. That's a shame. It could have been a great opportunity for DC to inject new life without alienating existing readers.

Now there are only two options left.

1) This will permanently replace the DCU and become the new standard for their universe -- and I don't believe it for one second, regardless how much DiDio and DC insist that it's true.

2) This will temporarily replace the DCU and be undone in 6-9 months, with a few minor, lasting effects in the titles as most of them (certainly Action and Detective) go back to original numbering and back to the general universe and status quo from which they started.

Of the two options, I have to say it's #2, and I think fans will be pissed that DC is doing this AGAIN. It gets old. Every few years they try to do this. They tell us "nothing will ever be the same" and they give a year-long series with spinoffs and tie-ins and arcs in each of their monthlies ... and then it ends and (despite their assertations to the contrary) things are almost EXACTLY the same again.

Storytelling is about establishing a status quo, disrupting it, and restoring it again. The characters learn and grow a little, but their world is pretty much restored to what it was before they started. So I'm not mad that DC is shaking up their universe. I'm actually more curious, and hoping for the best. This is going to be either pretty good, or epic fail. We don't have enough information to call this election yet.

But I am a little annoyed that they can't come up with anything new. It's always the same "never be the same" schtick.

I think this is why comics are selling badly. They may be attracting new readers, but they're losing longtime readers at a much greater rate, resulting in an overall loss. And when all those longtime fans are gone, all they'll be left with are passive, transient readers who are not invested and on whom they can't predict sales.

And that will be what finally kills the medium: trading-in faithful fans and quality storytelling for new, apathetic readers and a quick buck.

Agreed. This is yet another, same old same old gimmick that we've seen a million times before (especially in the last few years) and, while it will no doubt achieve a short term spike in sales, will do nothing, absolutely nothing to achieve higher sales or new readers in the long term. If the latter was their aim, then this is NOT the way to go about it. Not at all.

Mwynn
06-07-2011, 12:16 AM
If the latter was their aim, then this is NOT the way to go about it. Not at all.

Once again, what do you suggest they do?

Paul Sanderson
06-07-2011, 12:20 AM
Forget the gimmicks and just tell good stories with the characters as they are. Stop with the major, "things will never be the same" storylines every five minutes and just give us good, solid stories with the characters we all know and love. Enough with the constant stupid gimmicks, reboots, rejigs and soap opera elements. Enough is enough!

Mwynn
06-07-2011, 12:27 AM
Forget the gimmicks and just tell good stories with the characters as they are. Stop with the major, "things will never be the same" storylines every five minutes and just give us good, solid stories with the characters we all know and love. Enough with the constant stupid gimmicks, reboots, rejigs and soap opera elements. Enough is enough!

There are plenty of well written books that do not sell. Great stories mean very little if no one is reading them.

ronin7
06-07-2011, 09:05 AM
There are plenty of well written books that do not sell. Great stories mean very little if no one is reading them.

So, Blankets, Incredible Change-Bots, Box Office Poison aren't being read? I find that hard to believe. I find it even harder that they do not sell. Frank was right when he said good quality will earn a faithful following. The problem with the superhero genre is the superhero genre fan-base is jaded. They feel they have seen it all before, and I'd have to agree with them. Nothing exciting is happening in the Big Two since after Bendis launched New Avengers and House Of M, and Geoff Johns blew his wad with Sinestro Corps War and Blackest Night.

The industry needs fresh voices. I think superhero readers have grown tired of Johns and Bendis, and Fraction.

Mwynn
06-07-2011, 09:57 AM
So, Blankets, Incredible Change-Bots, Box Office Poison aren't being read? I find that hard to believe. I find it even harder that they do not sell. Frank was right when he said good quality will earn a faithful following. The problem with the superhero genre is the superhero genre fan-base is jaded. They feel they have seen it all before, and I'd have to agree with them. Nothing exciting is happening in the Big Two since after Bendis launched New Avengers and House Of M, and Geoff Johns blew his wad with Sinestro Corps War and Blackest Night.

The industry needs fresh voices. I think superhero readers have grown tired of Johns and Bendis, and Fraction.

I did not single out any books in my statement. As for that last comment can you back that up with any factual evidence?

Lone Wolf
06-07-2011, 10:36 AM
I hate this whole reboot thing... I only read titles that belong to bat-family, and in the last few years those titles were great. The character development was great, the relationships between those characters were great, stories were (more or less) great and everybody had its place in the universe. I've even come to accept Dick as new Batman after Batman #697 (the last two pages got me) and I was somewhat glad that he was going to keep the cape after The Batman returned...

After each "crisis" the bat-related characters never changed much and I like that, but this reboot seems really persistent to screw everything up. Any news of Tim Drake or Steph yet? If they kick those characters out, or change their personalities I think I'm done with DC... Those two characters were easy to relate to and I've been with them from the beginning - there are not many characters who are this awesome that didn't exist for at least 35 years or so. First 12 issues of Red Robin - fantastic. One of the best comic stories I've read. Will that matter in new DC? I don't think so...

And that's another thing. Will they somehow relate classic and memorable moments from the past that actually had meaning, like the Knightfall, or the new RIP series, or Hush, War Games... Heck I'd even miss the whole Cataclysm (No Man's Land)...

I guess I could rant forever about all of this... The point is I'm really disappointed with this reboot... I still don't understand why they didn't do something like "Ultimate DC" with 3 or 4 titles at first, to test the grounds at least.

Allegory Comics
06-07-2011, 11:36 AM
A few more announced titles, from Entertainment Weekly:

JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK ... what DC terms “a band of supernatural heroes” — John Constantine, Deadman, Shade the Changing Man and Madame Xanadu) – written by Peter Milligan.

DEMON KNIGHTS ... super-heroism set in medieval times, written by Paul Cornell.

FRANKENSTEIN: AGENT OF S.H.A.D.E. ... written by Jeff Lemire, taking the Frankenstein monster and turning him into an action hero alongside other fictional monsters in the service of a government organization: The Super Human Advanced Defense Executive.

Also, they report:
Scott Snyder, who’s been doing such strong work on American Vampire, will write a new version of Swamp Thing, and Jeff Lemire, author of one of comics’ finest current books, Sweet Tooth, is taking on Animal Man.

http://shelf-life.ew.com/2011/06/07/dc-comics-swamp-thing-frankenstein/

Newsarama also adds the following titles:

RESURRECTION MAN ... by Dan Abnett, Andy Lanning and artist Fernando Dagnino; is the story of a hero who wakes up with new powers each time he’s killed.

VAMPIRE ... by rising star Josh Fialkov and artist Andrea Sorrentino. Tortured by his centuries-old love for the Queen of the Damnned, Andrew Bennett must save humanity from the violent uprising of his fellow vampires, even if it means exterminating his own kind.

VOODOO ... Priscilla Kitaen has just found out she’s a monster. A half-alien hybrid, the woman known as Voodoo must confront the secrets of her past to make sense of the nightmare her life has suddenly become. Written by Ron Marz with art by Sami Basri.

Allegory Comics
06-07-2011, 11:44 AM
And from Newsarama ...
BATWING #1 by Judd Winick and Ben Oliver.

Says DC:

"This September, join with us in this historic moment when the first black character to wear the Batman mantle will be the first to star in his own ongoing series. BATWING will be written by Judd Winick and illustrated by Ben Oliver."

http://i.newsarama.com/images/batwing_cvr1_02.jpg

CHWolf
06-07-2011, 02:48 PM
If I don't get my (good) Ambush Bug relaunch, I'm-a start cracking skulls.

That's all I have to say.

Allegory Comics
06-07-2011, 03:13 PM
Newsarama is speculating (rightly, I think) that Superman will not be married in this new universe.

As this whole thing is developing, I'm starting to think differently about the reboot. Originally, I said I thought and hoped it was Ultimate DC. I still wish that, but it isn't, DiDio insists. I then said this will only last 6-9 months, and I'm starting to think I was wrong again.

There are some major changes in the new universe, but so far nothing SO MAJOR that it seems unreasonable. Most of the costumes look the same. Maybe a little tweaked, but nothing more. Wonder Woman and Superman are two more extreme changes that keep me on the fence -- but what if that isn't Superman in that picture? Maybe it's Superboy (he said, grasping at what he knows is false hope).

Also it seems like it's kind of in-continuity, but also not at the same time. Like there's still Red Lanterns and Damien is Robin and Jason is Red Hood ... it's all still there, and I don't think they're starting with all-new beginnings.

Rather than another CRISIS, where everything restarted from the beginning, this looks more like what they did with ZERO HOUR (only bigger) -- restarting the timeline and not ignoring the past continuity but merging it. They tried it again with INFINITE CRISIS; merging universes. The problem with this is: it muddies the waters. Some things happened and some things didn't. If they're going to do this, they need to be definitive about it.

So yes, now I think this is going to be the new standard for the DCU, because it doesn't seem as drastic as I once thought it was going to be. Of course, I still haven't seen their plans for Superman and that might change my mind back again if they go balls crazy with his story and look.

As for the lost numbering, I have no doubt that longtime books like ACTION and DETECTIVE will revert to their original numbering within 50 issues.

Allegory Comics
06-07-2011, 03:16 PM
So yes, now I think this is going to be the new standard for the DCU ...
At least until they do this again in 2 years, I mean.

CHWolf
06-07-2011, 03:49 PM
Newsarama is speculating (rightly, I think) that Superman will not be married in this new universe.

But you can't have Supes without Lois!! :har:

ronin7
06-07-2011, 04:36 PM
I read an article last that this might stem from DC losing more rights to Superman such as his alien origin, Lois Lane, the Daily Planet, and the Kent Family.

But, I can't seem to find the article.

ronin7
06-07-2011, 04:43 PM
I did not single out any books in my statement. As for that last comment can you back that up with any factual evidence?

No, but I think Bendis and Johns to a much lesser extent has proved they have changed the way we think about superhero comics. But, at the same time it seems they have run out of steam on the superhero genre. I'm enjoying Scarlet, Powers, going to pick up Takio, and eagerly await Brilliant and I have all of Bendis other creator owned work. I even has his innovative Marvel work and his brief DC work.

I think if Bendis did what Mark is doing, taking a sabbatical from the Big two. He'd get to recharge his batteries, allow other voices to breathe. Of course, I have read that is what he is doing with Matt Fraction lately. Fraction being my least favorite writer along with Moore and Morrison.

As for Johns, he's a company man. Put him fully in charge of the movie development division where his strengths lie. Joel Silver is an idiot, and will never make good on any of the properties they have. Johns will. Johns knows the film industry from studying under the great Richard Donner and would a great head of the movie development arm.

Gonzogoose
06-07-2011, 05:10 PM
I read an article last that this might stem from DC losing more rights to Superman such as his alien origin, Lois Lane, the Daily Planet, and the Kent Family.

But, I can't seem to find the article.

According to the article I read on that matter, there were only a few things the Siegels got control of, which are all tied to his origin:

"This means the Siegels -- repped by Marc Toberoff of Toberoff & Associates -- now control depictions of Superman's origins from the planet Krypton, his parents Jor-El and Lora, Superman as the infant Kal-El, the launching of the infant Superman into space by his parents as Krypton explodes and his landing on Earth in a fiery crash."

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118007269?refCatId=13

DC still controls everything from Action Comics #1 and beyond, including the term Kryptonite, Supes' ability to fly, Lois, Jimmy, etc.

ronin7
06-07-2011, 07:43 PM
According to the article I read on that matter, there were only a few things the Siegels got control of, which are all tied to his origin:

"This means the Siegels -- repped by Marc Toberoff of Toberoff & Associates -- now control depictions of Superman's origins from the planet Krypton, his parents Jor-El and Lora, Superman as the infant Kal-El, the launching of the infant Superman into space by his parents as Krypton explodes and his landing on Earth in a fiery crash."

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118007269?refCatId=13

DC still controls everything from Action Comics #1 and beyond, including the term Kryptonite, Supes' ability to fly, Lois, Jimmy, etc.

That means the Siegels have just about everything, and explains why DC is excluding his alien origin.

CHWolf
06-07-2011, 08:10 PM
Is it just me, or does a lot of this seem really Marvelized, despite the fact that it's not an "Ultimate" DCU?

Gonzogoose
06-07-2011, 08:51 PM
That means the Siegels have just about everything, and explains why DC is excluding his alien origin.

I don't see how you figure that. DC keeps all the subsequent powers like flying and heat vision, anything past that childhood origin, meaning his raising by the Kents. The only thing they don't control pretty much is his origin and parents, and I'm sure if they want to use it bad enough again somewhere they'll cut a deal with the Siegels. For now, it's not really important as everyone knows that origin.

Note they do NOT control the fact that he is an alien, just the origin story more or less.

Evan Henry
06-07-2011, 09:09 PM
I don't see how you figure that. DC keeps all the subsequent powers like flying and heat vision, anything past that childhood origin, meaning his raising by the Kents. The only thing they don't control pretty much is his origin and parents, and I'm sure if they want to use it bad enough again somewhere they'll cut a deal with the Siegels. For now, it's not really important as everyone knows that origin.

Note they do NOT control the fact that he is an alien, just the origin story more or less.

But that ruling was BEFORE the Johns/Frank Secret Origin, which had Krypton in it quite a bit, if I remember correctly.

WTF? :huh:

Gonzogoose
06-07-2011, 09:28 PM
Hmm, maybe there's a more recent ruling giving them more leeway? I don't know...

Paul Sanderson
06-07-2011, 10:31 PM
A few more announced titles, from Entertainment Weekly:

JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK ... what DC terms “a band of supernatural heroes” — John Constantine, Deadman, Shade the Changing Man and Madame Xanadu) – written by Peter Milligan.

DEMON KNIGHTS ... super-heroism set in medieval times, written by Paul Cornell.

FRANKENSTEIN: AGENT OF S.H.A.D.E. ... written by Jeff Lemire, taking the Frankenstein monster and turning him into an action hero alongside other fictional monsters in the service of a government organization: The Super Human Advanced Defense Executive.

Also, they report:


http://shelf-life.ew.com/2011/06/07/dc-comics-swamp-thing-frankenstein/

Newsarama also adds the following titles:

RESURRECTION MAN ... by Dan Abnett, Andy Lanning and artist Fernando Dagnino; is the story of a hero who wakes up with new powers each time he’s killed.

VAMPIRE ... by rising star Josh Fialkov and artist Andrea Sorrentino. Tortured by his centuries-old love for the Queen of the Damnned, Andrew Bennett must save humanity from the violent uprising of his fellow vampires, even if it means exterminating his own kind.

VOODOO ... Priscilla Kitaen has just found out she’s a monster. A half-alien hybrid, the woman known as Voodoo must confront the secrets of her past to make sense of the nightmare her life has suddenly become. Written by Ron Marz with art by Sami Basri.

Ugh! Too many titles!!

Paul Sanderson
06-07-2011, 10:33 PM
There are plenty of well written books that do not sell. Great stories mean very little if no one is reading them.

Maybe in your opinion, but not in mine. The crap far outweighs the good in the industry today. And I don't see that changing any time soon. Far from it, in fact.

Mwynn
06-07-2011, 10:50 PM
Maybe in your opinion, but not in mine. The crap far outweighs the good in the industry today. And I don't see that changing any time soon. Far from it, in fact.

How many books are you buying in a month, or are you basing this on someone elses word?

Mwynn
06-08-2011, 01:18 PM
http://i.newsarama.com/images/teen_titans_promo_02.jpg

"Tim Drake is forced to step out from behind his keyboard when an international organization seeks to capture or kill super-powered teenagers. As Red Robin, he must team up with the mysterious and belligerent powerhouse thief known as Wonder Girl and a hyperactive speedster calling himself Kid Flash in TEEN TITANS #1, by Scott Lobdell and artists Brett Booth and Norm Rapmund.

Lee says of Teen Titans that it has "the most variety of what existed before," and that Lobdell is crafting a "mythology that gives you a family feel."

DiDio noted that these new looks have reasons behind them. "All of these characters have history with the DC Universe that existed before the team is built, but it might be just slightly different," said DiDio. He also hinted that Tim Drake, Red Robin, will no longer have his own ongoing, but be the star of the show here. "every one of the former Robins to have a real showcase book, and this will be the primary showcase for Tim Drake."

Kid Flash is Bart.

http://i.newsarama.com/images/static_018y3msbdr1a_02.jpg

http://i.newsarama.com/images/hkdv_cv1_r3ign84sdmd_02.jpg

May as well get the Liefeld jokes out of the way. I give him 6 issues before they replace him.

Mark Bertolini
06-08-2011, 02:13 PM
6? I give it 2 or 3 before he loses interest and jumps to something else.

Mark Bertolini
06-08-2011, 02:15 PM
And does it seem to anyone else like DC's just throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks?

ronin7
06-08-2011, 03:48 PM
6? I give it 2 or 3 before he loses interest and jumps to something else.

Co-sign.

ronin7
06-08-2011, 03:49 PM
And does it seem to anyone else like DC's just throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks?

Yep. Like it's already been said, this won't last.

Mwynn
06-08-2011, 04:25 PM
6? I give it 2 or 3 before he loses interest and jumps to something else.

I am guessing that DC would have him do atleast 6 issues before they announced it.

Allegory Comics
06-08-2011, 04:43 PM
Last month, before all this was revealed, Geoff Johns and Jim Lee said there would be a "bombshell announcement about Superman and the entire DC Universe" at the Hero Complex Film Festival on Saturday.

http://www.supermanhomepage.com/news.php?readmore=9814

Could that be where they plan to finally reveal their plans for Superman?

Already we've seen pretty drastic costume changes for both Superman (on the JLA cover) and Superboy (on the Teen Titans cover). Plus they've already revealed plans for all the major JLA players, and 2-parts of the DC trinity.

Superman's absence is conspicuous; and coupled with the costume changes we've seen already and this news of a "bombshell" coming this weekend ... that leads me to believe this is going to be something BIG!

Troy Wall
06-08-2011, 05:01 PM
Isn't the rumor (or is it fact?) that Grant Morrison is writing the adjective-less Superman title? And George Perez is doing Action Comics all by his lonesome?

God, I loved All-Star Superman. So fantastic.

Allegory Comics
06-08-2011, 05:04 PM
Isn't the rumor (or is it fact?) that Grant Morrison is writing the adjective-less Superman title?
I've heard his name, and I've heard George Perez. DC has not formally announced anyone yet.

ronin7
06-08-2011, 05:53 PM
All-Star Superman was tripe. Pure Silver Age cock stroking. That's the last thing the industry needs is more Silver Age strip-mining.

Evan Henry
06-08-2011, 06:56 PM
Those Titans costumes look like shit.

And are we sure that Kid Flash is Bart? 'Cause the blurb makes it sound otherwise.

Mwynn
06-08-2011, 07:06 PM
Those Titans costumes look like shit.



If you have never read Backlash, look it up the costumes are right out of that book.

Evan Henry
06-08-2011, 07:35 PM
Here's my predictions for the next 13 titles (creators in parentheses):

Action Comics (Perez)
Superman (Morrison)
JSA
Shazam! (Johns or Ordway, or both)
Jonah Hex
Supergirl (possibly Gail Simone)
Blue Beetle
Zatanna
House of Mystery (yes, I called it)
REBELS (Bedard)
Kamandi (a la Dark Horse's Solar/Magnus relaunch)
Booster Gold
Batgirl

Allegory Comics
06-08-2011, 08:04 PM
Here's my predictions for the next 13 titles

... Batgirl
They already did announce that one. Returning Barbara to the cape, and written by Gail Simone.

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/dcnu-detective-batman-titles-110606.html

Evan Henry
06-08-2011, 08:17 PM
They already did announce that one. Returning Barbara to the cape, and written by Gail Simone.

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/dcnu-detective-batman-titles-110606.html

Hmm. I missed that. I knew about Barbara but I didn't know she was getting her own title.

In its place I'll say either Adventures of Superman or Spectre.

ronin7
06-08-2011, 09:00 PM
Here's my predictions for the next 13 titles (creators in parentheses):

Action Comics (Perez)
Superman (Morrison)
JSA
Shazam! (Johns or Ordway, or both)
Jonah Hex
Supergirl (possibly Gail Simone)
Blue Beetle
Zatanna
House of Mystery (yes, I called it)
REBELS (Bedard)
Kamandi (a la Dark Horse's Solar/Magnus relaunch)
Booster Gold
Batgirl

Brian Wood was intentionally supposed to write Supergirl, but then for some reason he was taken off the book and his books have been canceled. Wood has said he is no longer working with DC, so I wonder if Didio fired him?

CHWolf
06-08-2011, 09:01 PM
I once pitched a series with a hell-hound version of Ace the Bat-Hound to DC.

I'll predict they steal it because it was awesome and I'm a genius.

Biofungus
06-08-2011, 09:46 PM
May as well get the Liefeld jokes out of the way. I give him 6 issues before they replace him.

6 issues? So about a year and a half you mean, right?

Biofungus
06-08-2011, 09:47 PM
I want them to make Plastic Man a cosmic entity (or at least a Swamp Thing level being).

Allegory Comics
06-09-2011, 06:53 PM
They have announced 48 (of 52) titles so far:

Justice League
Wonder Woman
Green Lantern
Green Lantern Corps
Red Lanterns
Green Lantern: The New Guardians
The Savage Hawkman
Justice Society of America
Justice League International
Mr. Terrific
DC Comics Presents
Justice League Dark
Birds of Prey
Teen Titans
Fury of Firestorm
Captain Atom
Batman
Detective Comics
Batman & Robin
Batman Beyond
Batman: The Dark Knight
Batwoman
Catwoman
Batgirl
Nightwing
Red Hood & The Outlaws
Batwing
Demon Knights
Frankenstein: Agent of SHADE
Resurrection Man
I, Vampire
Voodoo
Swamp Thing
Animal Man
Static Shock
Hawk & Dove
Suicide Squad
Stormwatch
Blue Beetle
Blackhawks
Sgt Rock and the Men of War
All-Star Western
OMAC
Deathstroke
Grifter
Legion Lost
Aquaman
The Flash

There are 4 titles left, and we can safely assume SUPERMAN and ACTION COMICS will be among them. If that's true, what will the other two be? Probably something in the Superman family.

Superboy? -- we know he's on Titans, but so is Tim Drake and he doesn't have a solo series either.
Lois Lane? -- she hasn't had her own series for a long time, but she has a solo-Flashpoint story.
Supergirl? -- we haven't seen anything about her yet.
Steel? -- John Irons is already pretty popular and could balance DC's new Batwing for a new "World's Finest".
Superman/Batman (or a more classic World's Finest)? -- it's a pretty popular series to just end like that.
Trinity? -- will they expand the S/B concept to include Wonder Woman? At what point is it just another JLA title, though?
All-new title? -- there are lot of new titles we've never heard of. Will they do that with Superman, too. The House of El, or something?

N Hammer
06-09-2011, 07:03 PM
I thought they announced Supergirl? May be my mind is playing tricks?

Allegory Comics
06-09-2011, 07:04 PM
I thought they announced Supergirl? May be my mind is playing tricks?
Not that I have seen. They have not announced ANY Superman titles yet. If you find that they did, post a link because I missed it.

Mwynn
06-09-2011, 07:15 PM
http://i.newsarama.com/images/grif_cv164noocbatu_02.jpg

Allegory Comics
06-09-2011, 07:52 PM
http://www.supermanhomepage.com/news.php?readmore=9886

SUPERMAN #1:
http://www.supermanhomepage.com/images/solicitation-artwork/September-2011/sm_cv1.jpg

SUPERGIRL #1:
http://www.supermanhomepage.com/images/solicitation-artwork/September-2011/sg_cv1.jpg

SUPERBOY #1:
http://www.supermanhomepage.com/images/solicitation-artwork/September-2011/sb_cv1.jpg

The fourth title has to be ACTION COMICS, rumored to be Grant Morrison and Rags Morales.

Allegory Comics
06-09-2011, 08:23 PM
That Superman cover sucks! The costume is terrible, and I really am not a fan of Perez in modern comics. He was great 30 years ago, but his art looks boring and ugly today. I am NOT happy about this direction. I hope they can turn it around. Maybe ACTION will be better.

Mwynn
06-09-2011, 08:26 PM
The Supergirl boots are just weird. I wonder where the artist saw someone wearing boots like that. Is Superman wearing armor?

ronin7
06-09-2011, 09:29 PM
It all looks like shit. I don't know why Jim Lee was given reigns of the redesign. They should have used some one more contemporary.

CHWolf
06-09-2011, 09:44 PM
Superman... wearing armor? Perhaps he's no longer impervious to damage. Admittedly, that would be an interesting and bold choice to make - to have him vulnerable to physical harm while still possessing his other abilities.


In a perfect world, I'd love to see (or, more honestly, write) a new Ambush Bug as a lunatic who actually fits in the general DCU - or a villain-focused title. Killer Moth retitled "The Moth" or "Mothman" and used as he was originally intended - A Batman-level villain who other villains pay/call on when they're in danger? Perhaps just an ongoing "Legion of Doom" title.

Hell, I'd sooner read a title dedicated entirely to Chemo rampaging over a different city every month.


I don't know. This bold and risky relaunch seems safe to me.

Especailly the fact that a lot of this smells Marvel-y. What's up with Superboy in the Spider-Man Tron suit?

Biofungus
06-10-2011, 02:21 AM
I actually like the Supergirl redesign (it's the only one I do like so far). But isn't Superboy in that Teen Titans book? I mean, is he really popular/strong enough to be in two books?

Mwynn
06-10-2011, 08:33 AM
I actually like the Supergirl redesign (it's the only one I do like so far). But isn't Superboy in that Teen Titans book? I mean, is he really popular/strong enough to be in two books?

Yes while he was dead.

Allegory Comics
06-10-2011, 09:07 AM
Conner (if it is still Conner) is in Titans, but DC has said that book is really mostly about Tim, so don't look for Superboy or other characters to play as large a role in that title.

Allegory Comics
06-10-2011, 05:34 PM
ACTION COMICS #1

http://i.newsarama.com/images/action_1-bigger.jpg

ronin7
06-10-2011, 06:16 PM
Yep, Grant Morrison is showing why he's the biggest HACK in comicdom.

Allegory Comics
06-10-2011, 06:18 PM
Yep, Grant Morrison is showing why he's the biggest HACK in comicdom.
To be fair, he didn't draw that cover and we know almost NOTHING of the story. Probably this is a picture of Clark on the farm with overtones of who he secretly is. I doubt he actually wears this around the farm, it's just a cover effect. He'll probably get into the previously seen costume by the end of this first issue, then lead into SUPERMAN #1. You can't really judge the writer based on the art, though.

Evan Henry
06-10-2011, 10:11 PM
ACTION COMICS #1

http://i.newsarama.com/images/action_1-bigger.jpg

Oh, God...

CHWolf
06-10-2011, 11:38 PM
Brings to mind an alternate reality where Supes stayed in Smallville and became a carnie.

Mwynn
06-10-2011, 11:40 PM
http://blog.newsarama.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Teen-Titans-nU1.jpg

I like the Red Robin costume, it takes him back to Robin yet has its own style. The best part being he no longer looks like Dr. Midnite.

http://batmanlegacy.webs.com/photos/allies/Red-Robin.jpg

http://www.cosmicteams.com/profiles/img/midnite.jpg

Biofungus
06-11-2011, 12:39 AM
I'd say get rid of that harness, but without it he looks too identical to Nightwing.

CHWolf
06-11-2011, 12:47 AM
I was going to say he looked like the lovechild of Nightwing and Marvel's (cough) Falcon.

Just like Batwing looks like the lovechild of Steel and Falcon.

But anyway - interesting that they'll be featuring Red Robin in that title, because looking at the rest of the cast, I don't see too many people giving a crap about them, TBH. Maybe Bart, but hey.

Moonrider
06-11-2011, 01:46 AM
Especailly the fact that a lot of this smells Marvel-y. What's up with Superboy in the Spider-Man Tron suit?

Looks like something is fitting him to a costume reminiscent of The Eradicator.

Allegory Comics
06-12-2011, 12:35 AM
They had hyped up the Hero Complex Festival for a month, and said there would be a "bombshell announcement about Superman and the entire DCU."

That came and went a few minutes ago, and I followed the event on Newsarama's live feed. As it started, the host said there would be a surprise coming soon. 20 minutes later, it was all over, and if there was some major announcement, I missed it entirely.

Lee and Johns talked a little about the new Justice League origin; how Batman and GL meet and the old Superman stories of the 50s and 60s. Then played a video message from Grant Morrison where he said he was happy to write Action #1, there will be changes to Superman's story (did not elaborate) and he said this was going to be an experiment in storytelling that has never been done before. Then Johns and Lee talked some more about digital publishing. And then it was over with NO Q&A period.

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/geoff-johns-jim-lee-dcnu-110611.html

Soooooo ... where was this big "bombshell" annoucement? What was the "surprise" they promised us?

DC = disappointment comics.

Evan Henry
06-12-2011, 12:43 AM
I actually like the Supergirl redesign (it's the only one I do like so far). But isn't Superboy in that Teen Titans book? I mean, is he really popular/strong enough to be in two books?

The funny thing about the Supergirl costume is that I remember reading an interview with Jamal Igle about a year ago saying he was pressured into putting Supergirl in shorts to make the costume more "modest". And now they just decide to ditch skirt/shorts entirely and put her in panties. Interesting standard of "modesty", I guess.

Also, what the hell is on her legs?

Lovecraft13
06-12-2011, 03:57 AM
After DC Comics messed up Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman, they had to reset their books, but I'm not interested. I'm not going to reinvest my time in more DC bullshit, even if it has a new coat of paint. They're bringing in the same writers to retell variations of the same stories. No thanks.

Biofungus
06-12-2011, 05:50 AM
Then played a video message from Grant Morrison where he said he was happy to write Action #1, there will be changes to Superman's story (did not elaborate) and he said this was going to be an experiment in storytelling that has never been done before.

Like him actually telling a decent story for once?

ronin7
06-12-2011, 09:28 AM
Like him actually telling a decent story for once?

If you are hoping for that, you are so out of luck.

Allegory Comics
06-13-2011, 03:07 PM
Alright, so we've seen the lineup. Which books, if any, are you planning to pick up?

I will continue reading SUPERMAN and ACTION COMICS monthly, unless I discover it's really bad. Then I'll decide whether or not to continue. It's gonna be hard to walk away from Superman entirely after two decades of total devotion.

I'll also check out the first issues of Justice League, Justice League Dark, Wonder Woman, Batman, Flash, Aquaman, Green Lantern, Batwing, Batman The Dark Knight, Batman and Robin, Teen Titans, Red Hood & The Outlaws, Batgirl, Superboy, Supergirl, and Swamp Thing. Just to see what's happening there and how this new "DCnU" is shaping up. If I enjoy any of them, I may continue reading at least the first arc. We'll see. I'm not committing to anything.

I really don't like this new direction, but I'll reluctantly see what it's all about before I turn in my fandom.

Are there any books you're willing to try?

Mark Bertolini
06-13-2011, 03:28 PM
Grifter looks to be the only book out of the lot that I'd like to read. Nathan Edmonson is a great writer, and I love CAFU's work from THUNDER Agents, so I'd be willing to check this book out. The rest leave me pretty cold.

Mwynn
06-13-2011, 05:29 PM
Alright, so we've seen the lineup. Which books, if any, are you planning to pick up?

I will continue reading SUPERMAN and ACTION COMICS monthly, unless I discover it's really bad. Then I'll decide whether or not to continue. It's gonna be hard to walk away from Superman entirely after two decades of total devotion.

I'll also check out the first issues of Justice League, Justice League Dark, Wonder Woman, Batman, Flash, Aquaman, Green Lantern, Batwing, Batman The Dark Knight, Batman and Robin, Teen Titans, Red Hood & The Outlaws, Batgirl, Superboy, Supergirl, and Swamp Thing. Just to see what's happening there and how this new "DCnU" is shaping up. If I enjoy any of them, I may continue reading at least the first arc. We'll see. I'm not committing to anything.

I really don't like this new direction, but I'll reluctantly see what it's all about before I turn in my fandom.

Are there any books you're willing to try?

Green Lantern will still be great.

I will try Justice League and Grifter.

Evan Henry
06-13-2011, 08:18 PM
I'll keep buying GL as long as Johns is on it. I'm a mindless drone that way. I might give Justice League a try, depending on what I hear between now and then. Justice League Dark, Swamp Thing, and Grifter are all possibilities as well.

Tony Daniel on Hawkman could be interesting, and Firestorm is a maybe. I'll probably read at least the first arc of DC Presents, since I'm a big Deadman fan. Beyond that, I don't know what I'll be reading in a year's time.

jeffers
06-13-2011, 08:32 PM
Probably just keep to GL and GLC. I'll skim the rest...

Okay, okay, I'll give "Fury of Firestorm" a try.

yellowphantom
06-14-2011, 09:18 PM
i'll give some of these titles a try , but i see no reason to pick up any dc books
until sept. since everything we know is "changing" anyway
i'm also upset that there's no Shazam in this line up , but dc is willing to give green arrow his own book for the 20th time....agggggg:man:

Lovecraft13
06-14-2011, 10:08 PM
I would like to see what they do with Stormwatch.

HaphazardJoy
06-15-2011, 06:44 AM
I'll probably read Batwoman since it's one of the best books they've had in years and it won't really be impacted by this except maybe getting rid of the handful of women-in-fridge moments they've already used her for. That being said, and understanding that I'm neither a fan of DC nor reboots in general, not at all impressed.

Mark Bertolini
06-15-2011, 10:40 AM
I would like to see what they do with Stormwatch.

Me too. Paul Cornell's a great writer, I'm curious to see how he approaches this team. I just absolutely, unequivocally hate the Midnighter's new costume design. It looks like the leftover Daredevil armored costume from the 90s. Just brutal.

Lone Wolf
06-17-2011, 11:49 AM
I'll give a try to Batman family (after almost 20 years, its hard not to)... So: Batman, Detective, Nightwing and probably Teen Titans (because of Tim), I might skip Batgirl (unless Batgirl is Steph) and Batwoman but I'm not sure yet...

Though, I'm pretty sure I'll consider every future DC comic as "The Elseworld". If they don't get back to original stuff I'm just going to create endings for the characters in my head and pretend that's how it really ended :P

Gonzogoose
06-23-2011, 03:59 AM
I'll give Justice League a shot out of curiosity, and because it's the launch book. Plus I'm a big Jim Lee fan.

Others I plan to pick up as I can include:

Aquaman (for an issue, as I like the character in Flashpoint)

The Flash (really enjoyed the last series and am okay with Flashpoint so far)

Mr. Terrific (fan of the character from JSA - the only thing I liked about that book)

Batgirl (gotta see Babs as BG again, even though I'm a fan of Stephanie)

Green Lantern (just because)

Grifter (favorite character from Wildcats)

Blackhawks (for one issue, see what's what. Seems like G.I. Joe with superheroes)

Teen Titans (I like the cast and am hoping it's good)

Legion of Super-Heroes (never was a follower of Legion, but figure I'll try a #1)

Legion Lost (same as above, and because it's a cool concept)

Evan Henry
06-28-2011, 08:00 PM
http://blog.newsarama.com/2011/06/27/dcnu-tv-ads-seemingly-confirmed-by-retailer/

ronin7
06-28-2011, 08:45 PM
I've read that this whole relaunch was solely based on DC trying to prevent Siegel and Shuster families from getting the Superman rights. Even Morrison seemed to imply that everything will go back to normal next year.

Aaron Walther
06-29-2011, 12:04 AM
If DC were really trying to reach new readers outside of the insulated comics industry, then they would have hired some hot designers working on all those popular video games that the rest of the public likes.

Instead they have their Universe redesigned by an executive who's artistic zeitgeist was 30 years ago.

N Hammer
07-01-2011, 05:25 PM
Where is Shazam in all this???:mad:

Biofungus
07-01-2011, 07:10 PM
Where is Shazam in all this???:mad:
Non-existant (although I presume that they will "introduce him" later on in another existing title).

CHWolf
07-01-2011, 07:12 PM
In the Shazithouse.

KidIntense
07-15-2011, 03:20 PM
I have a feeling that they are ditching the trunks, huh?

ERoy
07-15-2011, 03:28 PM
I love my wife (soon-to-be wife, rather)

As one of my wedding gifts from her to me, she has pre-paid and made arrangements for me to get all 52 #1 issues of the DC relaunch. I am psyched!

As a fan of comics, I never got into DC because of the years of continuity that I would have to wade through. I grew up on Marvel, so I knew much of the backstory there, but I really knew nothing of DC.

Say what you will, but from the perspective of a fan who had never really read DC very much -- this relaunch is drawing me into DC comics in a big, big way, and I'm very much looking forward to it.

Had they kept the numbering, I wouldn't have touched it.

ronin7
07-15-2011, 05:32 PM
I love my wife (soon-to-be wife, rather)

As one of my wedding gifts from her to me, she has pre-paid and made arrangements for me to get all 52 #1 issues of the DC relaunch. I am psyched!

As a fan of comics, I never got into DC because of the years of continuity that I would have to wade through. I grew up on Marvel, so I knew much of the backstory there, but I really knew nothing of DC.

Say what you will, but from the perspective of a fan who had never really read DC very much -- this relaunch is drawing me into DC comics in a big, big way, and I'm very much looking forward to it.

Had they kept the numbering, I wouldn't have touched it.

Expect to be lost still. Instead of DC making the whole universe accessible. You will find past continuity clashing with the Nucontinuity. I bet Johns will be the first to butterfinger things and mention Blackest Night and Brightest Day when both shouldn't be in continuity.

Gonzogoose
07-15-2011, 06:44 PM
Expect to be lost still. Instead of DC making the whole universe accessible. You will find past continuity clashing with the Nucontinuity. I bet Johns will be the first to butterfinger things and mention Blackest Night and Brightest Day when both shouldn't be in continuity.

It's already been confirmed that Brightest Day and Blackest Night did take place in the new continuity. It's just like Crisis, some things will change, others will remain. It's not a full reboot.

Evan Henry
07-15-2011, 06:58 PM
Soft reboots are stupid and only cause more problems (read: Hawkman). Either go all the way or don't go at all.

Moonrider
07-20-2011, 03:04 PM
A full reboot will affect sales of titles that are still selling well.

That said, I don't know if Superman getting an updated costume while losing his red undies necessary in the Superman relaunch but there's something about the concept of him wearing blue t-shirt & jeans as the very first public superhero that interest me. It's kinda like wish fulfillment for me after that dreadful 'The Blur' thing in Smallville. I'll be sure to check out Action Comics for one issue at the very least.

Evan Henry
07-20-2011, 05:52 PM
I love my wife (soon-to-be wife, rather)

As one of my wedding gifts from her to me, she has pre-paid and made arrangements for me to get all 52 #1 issues of the DC relaunch. I am psyched!

As a fan of comics, I never got into DC because of the years of continuity that I would have to wade through. I grew up on Marvel, so I knew much of the backstory there, but I really knew nothing of DC.

Say what you will, but from the perspective of a fan who had never really read DC very much -- this relaunch is drawing me into DC comics in a big, big way, and I'm very much looking forward to it.

Had they kept the numbering, I wouldn't have touched it.

Well, I'm glad to see this is helping some people get into comics. I just think your reasoning is inherently flawed. The idea of there being all this backstory that is necessary to have in your brain at every moment is just bullshit. 95% of that information, if it was even vital, which most of it isn't, could be gleaned from reading a Wikipedia article on the character. I never read DC at all practically until I started reading Johns' Green Lantern toward the beginning of its run. Knowing next to nothing about the character's history going in, I had know problem assimilating the information. Same with the Legion, Teen Titans, and Superboy.

DC is not, and never was, the labyrinth of continuity that people have tried to make it into. DiDio and Lee are trying to solve an imaginary problem.

That being said, if it brings more people into the fold and doesn't fuck with long-established characters (not too sure about the second bit), then I'm cool with it. None of us have read any of these new titles so we can't judge what they will end up like. We have bits of info (godawful Titans and Superman redesigns, eradication of the JSA) as to what could make it horrible, but I'm trying to make a point of not prejudging anything at this point.

Greetings out in Huntington, by the way. Used to live out around there. :happy:

tsbelementman
07-24-2011, 11:39 PM
dc is fuckin racist against blacks screw fuckin gay ass dc bitches

CHWolf
07-25-2011, 12:22 AM
tsbelementman is homophobic against gays screw the fuckin rob liefeld lovin' doofus

eDKeener
07-27-2011, 10:00 AM
I'm looking forward to the relaunch of the DCU. There are a few books of theres that I'll be picking up just based on the directions the creative teams seem to be going from the interviews.

It had/has gotten to the point where it seems to me that both of the big companies are refreshing or rehashing the same stories over and over with all their characters and that's what drove me away from reading them anyway. So if it brings fresh, new stories to the characters I like I'll be happy with it.

ronin7
07-27-2011, 10:16 AM
Okay, what I have read on Newsrama confirmed my worst fears. The entire DC staff is contradicting each other. That is always a bad sign. What's worse is Geoff Johns expressing in a very fan-fiction like manner how much of a loser Aquaman is. Combined with the fact that DC has said all the major relevant stories happened. Which is NOT possible if all these heroes have only existed for 5 years. Superman could not have faced Doomsday, died, and comeback with no one remembering a damn thing about it. Not to mention that a lot of the significant moments of the Flash were with Wally in the role. Or, how the Wolfman/Perez Titans don't exist. Dick would have never became Nightwing in such a case, and with Batman being in his 20's. There is no way he could have gone through four Robins. He'd be like ten when he had his first Robin and fourteen when he conceived Damien with Talia Al Ghoul.

I'm going to avoid this relaunch like the plague. Six months time, I imagine DC will scramble to bring the old continuity back when the alienated new and old readers run away with a screaming migraine.

eDKeener
07-27-2011, 11:17 AM
All I want is good stories with the characters that I like. I just want new stories. I don't want to read the same story that I read two years ago, just retold by a different creative team. If the relaunch allows that to happen I'm all for it.

CHWolf
07-27-2011, 02:18 PM
"It doesn't have to make sense. It's comics!"


...

tsbelementman
07-27-2011, 03:02 PM
Ch Wolf you bitch go suck ass and dick you gay fuckin ba wearing motherfuckin bastard

Duane Korslund
07-27-2011, 03:14 PM
who wears a BA?
wth is a BA? (Bachelors of Arts? Black Angus? Big Antelope?)

ronin7
07-27-2011, 03:57 PM
All I want is good stories with the characters that I like. I just want new stories. I don't want to read the same story that I read two years ago, just retold by a different creative team. If the relaunch allows that to happen I'm all for it.

You are missing the point. With continuity not sorted out in agreement among the whole staff. You are going to have writers referencing elements that no longer exist, contradicting each other on the behavior of the characters, and not acknowledging that such and such character is dead.

Anyone remember Marvel's first couple of years under Quesada before he found his legs as EIC?

Moonrider
07-27-2011, 04:03 PM
This is always a dilemma, isn't it? Between older fans and new fans, it's always hard for DC to keep both sides happy, and it keeps getting harder. Oh how I wish Paul Sanderson would comment here again, those were the days... :)

who wears a BA?
wth is a BA? (Bachelors of Arts? Black Angus? Big Antelope?)

http://www.buzzpirates.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/mr_t_ba.jpg

CHWolf
07-27-2011, 04:04 PM
Ch Wolf you bitch go suck ass and dick you gay fuckin ba wearing motherfuckin bastard

Huh. If you put a million cockroaches at a million tiny computers, eventually one of them does reply to my posts.

BTW, tsbelementman - The biggest homophobes are hiding their own homosexual tendancies. You should do some soul-searching.

Moonrider
07-27-2011, 04:09 PM
god dammit chwolf remember rule #14!!!!

Duane Korslund
07-27-2011, 04:14 PM
This is always a dilemma, isn't it? Between older fans and new fans, it's always hard for DC to keep both sides happy, and it keeps getting harder. Oh how I wish Paul Sanderson would comment here again, those were the days... :)



http://www.buzzpirates.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/mr_t_ba.jpg

ah yes! BA Baracus...I should have known...

Lovecraft13
07-27-2011, 04:34 PM
I'm disappointed that DC Comics ain't relaunching my favorite she-male super hero comic, She-Man.

CHWolf
07-27-2011, 04:43 PM
god dammit chwolf remember rule #14!!!!

No member of the Corps should ever report for active duty in a ginger toupee?

tsbelementman
07-27-2011, 07:44 PM
chwolf i was not trying to start a arguement you called me gay

ronin7
07-27-2011, 07:48 PM
This is always a dilemma, isn't it? Between older fans and new fans, it's always hard for DC to keep both sides happy, and it keeps getting harder. Oh how I wish Paul Sanderson would comment here again, those were the days... :)



http://www.buzzpirates.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/mr_t_ba.jpg


Eh, it's not so much entrenchment of continuity for me. It's more they seem to not have all their ducks in row. There seems to be division in the ranks on how things should proceed. Having all the writers on the same page, working as well together as the Marvel guys would help DC recapture some of the market share I think.

DC was my first experience of becoming a fan with Marvel coming second. Until I ended up a fan of both universes.

Evan Henry
07-27-2011, 08:34 PM
chwolf i was not trying to start a arguement you called me gay

When did he call you gay? :huh:

Also, you must understand -- Wolfy is a special kind of person. If he says something, chances are he means the exact opposite. For example,

BTW, tsbelementman - The biggest homophobes are hiding their own homosexual tendancies. You should do some soul-searching.

probably means

BTW, tsbelementman - You are the most heterosexual guy I have ever had the pleasure to meet. I wish I was a chick so I could get freaky with you.

Or maybe not. I dunno. :laugh:

tsbelementman
07-27-2011, 09:26 PM
well okay but thats wierd

CHWolf
07-27-2011, 09:41 PM
chwolf i was not trying to start a arguement you called me gay

Nnno, no I didn't.


And don't listen to SuperMonkey. I think homophobes stink. :laugh:

tsbelementman
07-27-2011, 10:46 PM
:)

eDKeener
07-28-2011, 11:17 AM
You are missing the point. With continuity not sorted out in agreement among the whole staff. You are going to have writers referencing elements that no longer exist, contradicting each other on the behavior of the characters, and not acknowledging that such and such character is dead.

Anyone remember Marvel's first couple of years under Quesada before he found his legs as EIC?

I can definitely see your point Ronin. And agree with you to an extent. But I think one of the biggest problems is the anchor that continuity has brought to many long standing comic books.

I know they are maintaining certain elements of past continuity, which doesn't line up well with the timeline they have established for when the relauch happens. But I'll still willing to give them a shot to tell good stories that hopefully aren't rehashes of what we've already read.

eDKeener
07-28-2011, 11:19 AM
Eh, it's not so much entrenchment of continuity for me. It's more they seem to not have all their ducks in row. There seems to be division in the ranks on how things should proceed. Having all the writers on the same page, working as well together as the Marvel guys would help DC recapture some of the market share I think.

DC was my first experience of becoming a fan with Marvel coming second. Until I ended up a fan of both universes.

Good point Ronin. I read this after I posted my first reply.