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Doctor Shock
01-25-2011, 02:12 PM
http://geek-news.mtv.com/2011/01/25/marvel-announces-the-death-of-the-human-torch-in-fantastic-four-587/?xrs=share_twitter

http://www.sneakpeek.ca/2011/01/marvel-extinguishes-human-torch.html According to new Marvel owners the Walt Disney Company, the character is a 'bad influence' on young kids who may want to emulate and possibly 'immolate' themselves as the burning superhero.

Phatman
01-25-2011, 02:33 PM
I said that Disney buying Marvel was a bad thing and nobody listened. I will burn a toy Mickey Mouse in tribute to Johnny Storm when this issue comes out. :nyah:

Doctor Shock
01-25-2011, 02:39 PM
70 years and not one case of a kid trying to set themselves on fire. Kids don't read comics anymore anyway.

Flairbrusher
01-25-2011, 02:51 PM
And in a surprising response to Marvel's killing off of the Human Torch, comic fans everywhere... don't buy the issue.

Allegory Comics
01-25-2011, 05:04 PM
According to new Marvel owners the Walt Disney Company, the character is a 'bad influence' on young kids who may want to emulate and possibly 'immolate' themselves as the burning superhero.
I find that incredibly difficult to believe, to the point in fact that I don't believe it all.

Assuming for one moment that Disney did start making decisions like this, I think they'd start with violent characters who set bad examples like The Punisher, or even Wolverine. I'll have to wait until it's confirmed by a more trusted and reputable news source before I believe that was the motivation for this death.

Besides, it's not like he won't be back.

One year. Tops.

Doctor Shock
01-25-2011, 05:24 PM
I find that incredibly difficult to believe, to the point in fact that I don't believe it all.ok


Besides, it's not like he won't be back.

One year. Tops.You're right about that.

Flairbrusher
01-25-2011, 05:52 PM
Yeah. He'll be back. As soon as some colorist creates a new library of flame brushes and cosmic power brushes, he'll be back. You'll see. I believe in the Human Torch.

Paul Sanderson
01-25-2011, 06:28 PM
Just the usual gimmick to try and increase readership of the FF title. Of course he'll be back, that's be the next gimmick storyline after the death one.

Flairbrusher
01-25-2011, 09:04 PM
Just the usual gimmick to try and increase readership of the FF title. Of course he'll be back, that's be the next gimmick storyline after the death one.
Gimme Joe Sinnott ink lines any day over gimmick storylines! Note to Marvel- MAKE COMIC BOOKS FUN.

Aaron Walther
01-25-2011, 09:16 PM
Goddamn internet. Please show me some real journalistic evidence corroborating this claim.

People used to say the same thing about the old cartoon, but it was never true (http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2005/09/15/comic-book-urban-legends-revealed-16/).

Mr.Musgrave
01-25-2011, 10:14 PM
Is this the same Disney that put out Pulp Fiction? Fucking moron.

CHWolf
01-25-2011, 10:21 PM
Ah, the supposed reason for the swap-out of Human Torch for H.E.R.B.I.E. so long ago...

Seems like the urban legend has been exhumed and regurgitated. (Yes, both.)

The Dag
01-25-2011, 10:33 PM
the human torch is the one i wanted to die.

Scribbly
01-26-2011, 12:00 AM
It was about time.
The Marvel Universe need to be sterilized and pasteurized
before to be served to the child.
Next: Wolverine.
Those long claws are in need of maniqure. :sure:

Doctor Shock
01-26-2011, 12:09 AM
the human torch is the one i wanted to die.
Then this is for you.

jakebilbao
01-26-2011, 02:07 AM
john cassaday drew that cover? :huh:

:( :( :( :( :( :(

Doctor Shock
01-26-2011, 02:54 PM
http://bullyscomics.blogspot.com/2011/01/again-but-that-trick-never-works.html OK

zcotty
01-27-2011, 10:26 AM
http://bullyscomics.blogspot.com/2011/01/again-but-that-trick-never-works.html OK

:laugh: Good old Marvel. I bet to this day the writers our sitting around a table thinking HOW they can surprise the readers and increase sales.

"Hey!! I've got it! Let's kill a major character!"
"What? That's...that's unbelievably ingenious! I bet no one has done THAT before. Get to it! " :rolleyes:

Maybe they should read their own comics from time to time.

:sure:

Allegory Comics
01-27-2011, 11:46 AM
:laugh: Good old Marvel. I bet to this day the writers our sitting around a table thinking HOW they can surprise the readers and increase sales.

"Hey!! I've got it! Let's kill a major character!"
"What? That's...that's unbelievably ingenious! I bet no one has done THAT before. Get to it! " :rolleyes:

Maybe they should read their own comics from time to time.

:sure:
And yet, here we are talking about it ... and it's getting ink on major news outlets, too ... and sales no doubt will go up for at least that issue and probably a few more after. Even if the core readers don't buy into the hype, it will attract some new readers interested in seeing what's happening.'

That's exactly how I myself got into comics, with the death of Superman.

It may be tired and predictable to us on the inside -- but it works, sadly.

Moonrider
01-27-2011, 01:24 PM
It stopped working for me by the time Cyclops supposedly died fighting Apocalypse.

Paul Sanderson
01-27-2011, 07:20 PM
It works for some, but not enough to really help the industry. These sorts of things, Ryan, only ever achieve short term spikes, not any long term benefits. These sorts of storylines have been so overused over so many years now, a short term spike is all that can be expected.

Allegory Comics
01-27-2011, 07:27 PM
It works for some, but not enough to really help the industry. These sorts of things, Ryan, only ever achieve short term spikes, not any long term benefits. These sorts of storylines have been so overused over so many years now, a short term spike is all that can be expected.
I agree, Frank, but even short term spikes are an increase in sales. And if they keep even 5% of those new readers then it's a net win for the publisher. I also agree that it's cheap and lazy and predictable, but it gets attention for more naive readers who aren't as familiar with comics or these trends. Most of them come and go, but I do think a few stick around.

I know this because that's what I did. As a kid I heard on CNN that Superman was going to die. It was all over the news and I wanted to see how it happened. So I bought it, and I really loved it and I've been here ever since. Now 20 years later I know better, but I was young and naive back then ... just like a lot of new readers that this stunt WILL attract today.

We can bitch all we want about whether or not the story is any good. Maybe it will totally suck balls. But I'll bet you they sell out their stock. That's really all they care about.

Paul Sanderson
01-27-2011, 07:30 PM
Comparing this to the death of Superman really isn't an accurate reflection on the state of things today. That was 20 years ago. A lot of these storylines have come and go since then. The impact today isn't the same as it was back then. And it may get us talking, but we're not the ones who are the targets for an attempt at increasing sales. These sorts of things today almost never increase new readership of titles (ie. bringing readers into the fold--and keeping them there--who have never read comics before). It usually just gets us old timers to come back for a short time. Not the same thing. Even so, some of us are talking about not but not all of us are buying. I sure as heck won't be.

Biofungus
01-27-2011, 07:34 PM
Johnny will come back when the new FF reboot is released.

Paul Sanderson
01-27-2011, 07:37 PM
I don't doubt he'll be back. I know how these things work.

Allegory Comics
01-27-2011, 08:32 PM
Comparing this to the death of Superman really isn't an accurate reflection on the state of things today. That was 20 years ago. A lot of these storylines have come and go since then.
But they've only been noticed by those of us already reading. To new readers, it's all new again. That's my point.

They WILL tune in to see what's happening, and yes most of them will leave when they get bored quickly. Maybe even 95% of them will leave. But even 5% growth is still an increase for the industry and a win for Marvel -- or any publisher spinning death's revolving door.

Scribbly
01-27-2011, 08:42 PM
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p214/yeyed/walkercomicscopy.jpg

Doctor Shock
01-27-2011, 09:56 PM
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p214/yeyed/walkercomicscopy.jpg
That's the average comic collector today.

Paul Sanderson
01-28-2011, 12:19 AM
Most new readers won't even know this is happening, or care, Ryan. The only people really aware of all this is us, the people already reading/collecting. That's my point.

Moonrider
01-28-2011, 08:57 AM
I blame continuity for making things like death or any other kind of story progression to have less impact as time goes on.

The Golden Age of comics started from the late '30s to the '50s. Silver Age from '50s to '70s. The Modern Age is from what, the '70s to today? We've been running a decade too long with our 'modern' comics. The readers are growing old, while new readers are hard to find.

Allegory Comics
01-28-2011, 11:14 AM
Most new readers won't even know this is happening, or care, Ryan. The only people really aware of all this is us, the people already reading/collecting. That's my point.
Wrong. They WILL know it's happening because it's on CNN, Yahoo News, MTV News, and everywhere else. This hasn't just made headlines on comic news sites.

ASSOCIATED PRESS (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jN1_CcMjrI97YgbBrwjDRgngBv1w?docId=280db5914 48c48a38d963db59f6107f7)

USA TODAY (http://www.usatoday.com/life/comics/2011-01-25-FantasticFourDeath_N.htm)

CNN (http://marquee.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/25/the-fantastic-four-member-who-dies-is/)

TIME MAGAZINE (http://techland.time.com/2011/01/27/the-comic-book-club-fantastic-four-587-and-infestation-1/)

NY DAILY NEWS (http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/2011/01/25/2011-01-25_fantastic_death_fame_superhero_killed_off.html)

NY TIMES (http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/25/the-life-death-and-life-of-superheroes/)

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY (http://shelf-life.ew.com/2011/01/25/fantastic-four-death-assassination/)

NBC WASHINGTON (http://www.nbcwashington.com/entertainment/celebrity/NATL-Fantastic-Four-Becomes-Three-in-Shocking-Super-Hero-Death-114633959.html)

LA TIMES (http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2011/01/25/fantastic-four-human-torch-snuffed-out-but-for-how-long/)

WASHINGTON POST (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/comic-riffs/2011/01/fantastic_four-sight_how_this.html)

WALL STREET JOURNAL (http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2011/01/25/oscar-nominations-2011-set-to-be-announced/)

... to name a few.

Yes, outsiders WILL see it, and some of them WILL buy the book .. and then most of them will leave, but a small handful of them might actually stick around. I'm not saying another empty death storyline is a good idea. I'm just saying, don't pretend it doesn't generate sales, because it absolutely does. Even if only temporarily.

RandallFlagg
01-28-2011, 11:24 AM
I have a friend who I don't think has ever read a comic in his life and he asked me about this yesterday, so I know people other than fans know about this.

Biofungus
01-28-2011, 12:40 PM
This is the first "death" of the New Disney Era. Did you think they weren't going to go all out on the hype machine?

Scribbly
01-28-2011, 12:53 PM
This is the first "death" of the New Disney Era. Did you think they weren't going to go all out on the hype machine?
I still mourning for Capt. America's death. :cry:
That was “the” death.
I just hope Mickey is doing well… :cry:

zcotty
01-28-2011, 01:28 PM
It stopped working for me by the time Cyclops supposedly died fighting Apocalypse.

It stopped working for me when Jean died and came back the second time.


:rolleyes:

Flairbrusher
01-28-2011, 01:46 PM
I still mourning for Capt. America's death. :cry:
That was “the” death.
I just hope Mickey is doing well… :cry:
I'm still mourning for Miss Grundy dying in Archie. sniff.

CHWolf
01-28-2011, 02:33 PM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_VMe5w4sMZCQ/SrbIFYyZyyI/AAAAAAAACQ4/V3eauN7hNJI/s320/16_page_24.jpg

Still having nightmares...

Paul Sanderson
01-28-2011, 04:50 PM
Wrong. They WILL know it's happening because it's on CNN, Yahoo News, MTV News, and everywhere else. This hasn't just made headlines on comic news sites.

ASSOCIATED PRESS (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jN1_CcMjrI97YgbBrwjDRgngBv1w?docId=280db5914 48c48a38d963db59f6107f7)

USA TODAY (http://www.usatoday.com/life/comics/2011-01-25-FantasticFourDeath_N.htm)

CNN (http://marquee.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/25/the-fantastic-four-member-who-dies-is/)

TIME MAGAZINE (http://techland.time.com/2011/01/27/the-comic-book-club-fantastic-four-587-and-infestation-1/)

NY DAILY NEWS (http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/2011/01/25/2011-01-25_fantastic_death_fame_superhero_killed_off.html)

NY TIMES (http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/25/the-life-death-and-life-of-superheroes/)

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY (http://shelf-life.ew.com/2011/01/25/fantastic-four-death-assassination/)

NBC WASHINGTON (http://www.nbcwashington.com/entertainment/celebrity/NATL-Fantastic-Four-Becomes-Three-in-Shocking-Super-Hero-Death-114633959.html)

LA TIMES (http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2011/01/25/fantastic-four-human-torch-snuffed-out-but-for-how-long/)

WASHINGTON POST (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/comic-riffs/2011/01/fantastic_four-sight_how_this.html)

WALL STREET JOURNAL (http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2011/01/25/oscar-nominations-2011-set-to-be-announced/)

... to name a few.

Yes, outsiders WILL see it, and some of them WILL buy the book .. and then most of them will leave, but a small handful of them might actually stick around. I'm not saying another empty death storyline is a good idea. I'm just saying, don't pretend it doesn't generate sales, because it absolutely does. Even if only temporarily.

Yes, and newspaper and magazine circulation is so huge these days, too :yawn:

Face it, any "new" readers they acquire will merely be many of the old readers simply coming back to the fold for a short time for the most part. I doubt very much if any sizeable true-blue new readers are attracted by this. The death of Superman storyline was one thing, that was a character everyone and their dog had heard of. And that was 20 years ago. This is something else entirely, I can assure you.

And yes, I said these storylines generate a short term increase in sales. Usually old readers coming back. That's not really what I mean when I talk about new readers. Either way, it's not what the industry needs. Short term spikes achieve nothing in the end. I've said that before, I'll say it again and again.

Allegory Comics
01-28-2011, 05:01 PM
Yes, and newspaper and magazine circulation is so huge these days, too :yawn:
Seriously? You're just gonna stick by this dog?

You do realize those are WEB articles, right? Print has nothing to do with those stories; people can read them ONLINE. And they are only a few examples of the massive amount of press surrounding this story -- print, web and probably even TV. You said people will never hear about this outside the industry, and I'm just showing you how they will.

But you're right, Frank. You're always right. Nobody will ever hear about this. It's a bigger secret than the CIA Kryptos.

:rolleyes:

KidIntense
01-28-2011, 07:36 PM
No more Human Torch???? That sucks!!!!!

Phatman
01-28-2011, 07:46 PM
No more Human Torch???? That sucks!!!!!

WORD BRO'

Buckyrig
01-28-2011, 07:47 PM
There's still the android, isn't there?

It's been a while, but I recall them recanting the idea that he was turned into The Vision.

The Dag
01-28-2011, 08:44 PM
Seriously? You're just gonna stick by this dog?

You do realize those are WEB articles, right? Print has nothing to do with those stories; people can read them ONLINE. And they are only a few examples of the massive amount of press surrounding this story -- print, web and probably even TV. You said people will never hear about this outside the industry, and I'm just showing you how they will.

But you're right, Frank. You're always right. Nobody will ever hear about this. It's a bigger secret than the CIA Kryptos.

:rolleyes:

perez hilton covered it too.

Paul Sanderson
01-28-2011, 09:11 PM
There's still the android, isn't there?

It's been a while, but I recall them recanting the idea that he was turned into The Vision.

I remember those stories in Avengers West Coast.

You think the general public will care or know about this like they did the death of Superman, Ryan? You've got rocks in your head!

Allegory Comics
01-28-2011, 10:21 PM
You think the general public will care or know about this like they did the death of Superman, Ryan? You've got rocks in your head!
I never said it would have the same amount of response, but YES, I do think it will resonate with some people. It has already gotten a lot of media attention, new readers will check it out, and hopefully we can keep a few of them.

Funny, though, how you sidestepped your original argument, from saying nobody will see the news (because print media is dead :rolleyes: ) to now saying: "yeah, of course they'll see the news, but they won't care." Nice save.

I can't wait to read the next chapter.

KidIntense
01-28-2011, 11:11 PM
Okay, who can replace The Human Torch in Fantastic Four?

Paul Sanderson
01-29-2011, 12:42 AM
BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH, Ryan. Same old nonsense from you.

btw, where did I say that print media was dead? You do like to spin the rhetoric/propoganda, don't you.

I stand by what I said - not many people will see this (in world terms and certainly not to the same degree as those that were aware of the death of Superman), and unlike Superman, very few people will be interested or care. I stand by that wholeheartedly.

Moonrider
01-29-2011, 02:32 AM
Okay, who can replace The Human Torch in Fantastic Four?

Captain America. Hey, it worked the other way around. ;)

Allegory Comics
01-29-2011, 05:34 AM
btw, where did I say that print media was dead? You do like to spin the rhetoric/propoganda, don't you.

How about ...
Yes, and newspaper and magazine circulation is so huge these days, too :yawn:

Now onto ...
I stand by what I said - not many people will see this (in world terms and certainly not to the same degree as those that were aware of the death of Superman), and unlike Superman, very few people will be interested or care. I stand by that wholeheartedly.
I never once said that this will be as big as Superman's death. How could it?

But that doesn't mean it will be widely ignored, either. This absolutely will generate new sales, because new readers aren't as used to this recycled death story as we are, and they will respond to the media hype.

From an insider's perspective, we can see this is for the cheap and tired gimmick that it is. But outsiders won't see that. And as much as we might see this as crap, "quality" doesn't mean anything in the world of business. You can always get more sales by appealing to the ignorant masses with more disposable income than brains. It's not a long-term strategy, but it DOES work in the interim. A brief sales spike looks good on the financial reports, and it's better than no spike at all.

Scribbly
01-29-2011, 07:27 AM
"The only good Superheroe is a dead superheroe." :cry:

Biofungus
01-29-2011, 07:28 AM
perez hilton covered it too.
And suddenly the term "flame on!" takes on a whole new meaning... :whistlin:

The Dag
01-29-2011, 02:24 PM
And suddenly the term "flame on!" takes on a whole new meaning... :whistlin:

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Moonrider
01-30-2011, 09:35 AM
And suddenly the term "flame on!" takes on a whole new meaning... :whistlin:

I don't get it. :blink:

The Dag
01-30-2011, 04:42 PM
I don't get it. :blink:

perez is gay.

Flairbrusher
01-30-2011, 11:06 PM
perez is gay.
FLAMING ON! gay.

KidIntense
01-30-2011, 11:25 PM
What if HERBIE the robot replaces Human Torch again?

Doctor Shock
01-31-2011, 12:18 AM
What if HERBIE the robot replaces Human Torch again?
Is herbie Gay?

Flairbrusher
01-31-2011, 12:57 AM
Is herbie Gay?
If they can make a buck at making him gay, he's gay. :w00t:

zcotty
01-31-2011, 06:34 AM
I'm still mourning for Miss Grundy dying in Archie. sniff.

Miss Grundy is DEAD?? :eek:


I don't read the book in 20 years and everything goes to hell.


:cry:

zcotty
01-31-2011, 06:36 AM
Seriously? You're just gonna stick by this dog?

You do realize those are WEB articles, right? Print has nothing to do with those stories; people can read them ONLINE. And they are only a few examples of the massive amount of press surrounding this story -- print, web and probably even TV. You said people will never hear about this outside the industry, and I'm just showing you how they will.

But you're right, Frank. You're always right. Nobody will ever hear about this. It's a bigger secret than the CIA Kryptos.

:rolleyes:

Yeah because TV is so big these days. :rolleyes:


:p

Aidy
01-31-2011, 08:11 AM
perez is gay.


no shit....you seen those shirts he wears

Flairbrusher
01-31-2011, 09:06 AM
Miss Grundy is DEAD?? :eek:


I don't read the book in 20 years and everything goes to hell.


:cry:
Yep, they'll try anything to keep those books going, as well, including using a token shock value gay character in a story to show that they're "edgy", and "with the times". What they really need to do is a drug story where Reggie is strung out on crack and Jughead and Archie come to the rescue with Green rings and arrows. That'll learn 'em! Who's with the times, now, huh? :har:

The DarkMind
03-28-2011, 11:47 AM
So, is Johnny back from the dead yet with new kid friendly powers?

Aaron Walther
03-28-2011, 02:49 PM
no, that won't happen until the 600th issue.

Ron Phillips
03-28-2011, 06:17 PM
So does this mean they're going to kill off all the fire elemental superheroes?

The DarkMind
03-28-2011, 06:27 PM
What about Namor? Won't he lead to children drowning thinking they can breath underwater?

CHWolf
03-28-2011, 08:18 PM
You guys saw the happy burning baby in Disney's Pixar's Incredibles, right?

Flairbrusher
03-28-2011, 11:15 PM
You guys saw the happy burning baby in Disney's Pixar's Incredibles, right?
That's shows how not overly sensitive I am. I didn't make the all too sensitive connection. Now I need to go and get me a baby and a match, being that I can't tell the diff between a movie and reality. :carrot:

CHWolf
03-28-2011, 11:35 PM
Just saying "Disney doesn't care about burnt people," while Mike Myers stands by silently, unsure of whether or not his life is in danger.

Drew
05-22-2011, 01:24 PM
wow, i can't beleieve all of the doubters of this big acquisition where actually right lol ....geez disney :blink: