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View Full Version : Bruce Wayne is back as Batman!!!!


KidIntense
09-13-2010, 10:53 PM
It is no hoax or an imaginary story. The original Batman is back. this time, he is back to wearing the yellow oval on his chest. But at least we will still see Dick grayson as Batman, the Bruce Wayne is a way better Batman than Dick because Bruce is dark, grim, and gritty. :)

HaphazardJoy
09-13-2010, 10:56 PM
Well thank heavens for that.

Mark Bertolini
09-13-2010, 11:15 PM
Kid Intense Sighting!!!

Aaron Walther
09-13-2010, 11:16 PM
Shock and Awe.

fluxchild
09-13-2010, 11:35 PM
NO! Dick shouldn't hand over the cowl. I liked him as Batman.

Aaron Walther
09-13-2010, 11:57 PM
I would have liked them if the stories were about him instead of continuing to be about Bruce.

fluxchild
09-14-2010, 01:44 AM
I feel ya on that one. At least they didn't give us the false notion that he was indeed dead. They let us know from the beginning that he wasn't dead.
And only Bruce would show up, and get right back into action as if he never left. I guess that's true to character though. Don't get me wrong Batman is my favorite character, but I identified more with the Robin characters. I remember my dad used to say, "To the Batmobile, Robin!" Therefore I always wanted to be Robin growing up, and now that I'm a father I picture getting to finally say those words. That's what I feel the stories SHOULD have been about, Dick growing up and filling those shoes, and maybe they were to a degree, but Bruce's story overshadowed that, and that lil prick of a new Robin's disdain for him. Isn't it funny that Robin, and the villains were the only ones that prefered Bruce? The more I think of it maybe Grant Morrison actually meant to go that route but was sidetracked trying to write The Return at the same time.

Buckyrig
09-14-2010, 12:03 PM
Hey, I'm Batman! :mad:

Mark Bertolini
09-14-2010, 12:12 PM
I think you're all missing the point.

Kid Intense is back!

CHWolf
09-14-2010, 01:08 PM
At least Bruce didn't turn out to be the Phantom Stranger.

Moonrider
09-14-2010, 02:21 PM
I feel ya on that one. At least they didn't give us the false notion that he was indeed dead. They let us know from the beginning that he wasn't dead.
And only Bruce would show up, and get right back into action as if he never left. I guess that's true to character though. Don't get me wrong Batman is my favorite character, but I identified more with the Robin characters. I remember my dad used to say, "To the Batmobile, Robin!" Therefore I always wanted to be Robin growing up, and now that I'm a father I picture getting to finally say those words. That's what I feel the stories SHOULD have been about, Dick growing up and filling those shoes, and maybe they were to a degree, but Bruce's story overshadowed that, and that lil prick of a new Robin's disdain for him. Isn't it funny that Robin, and the villains were the only ones that prefered Bruce? The more I think of it maybe Grant Morrison actually meant to go that route but was sidetracked trying to write The Return at the same time.

I'll be waiting for the day when a much older Kid Intense (then will be known as Man Intense) pick on a younger, more annoying member of this forum and posted, "Hey! (insert juvenile-ish user name here) is back!"

Paul Sanderson
09-14-2010, 06:37 PM
Wow! That was...intense?! :confused: :blink:

Troy Wall
09-14-2010, 08:12 PM
By the look of Batman INC., it appears to me that Morrison is going to have Bruce look to really expand his fight on crime via taking on new associates to help fight the war. A network of sorts, if you will. And perhaps give the organization a more public face.

Paul Sanderson
09-14-2010, 08:14 PM
By the look of Batman INC., it appears to me that Morrison is going to have Bruce look to really expand his fight on crime via taking on new associates to help fight the war. A network of sorts, if you will. And perhaps give the organization a more public face.

Interesting, but it's been done before, most notably after the Gotham earthquake storyline.

HaphazardJoy
09-14-2010, 08:39 PM
Interesting, but it's been done before, most notably after the Gotham earthquake storyline.

Yeah, I was just thinking that, Contagion/Cataclysm/No Man's Land. It worked in that case, but I'm a little skeptical of this until I hear more. It begs to run into the same problems that happen when you take Batman out of Gotham and put him on a team, only in Gotham.

Moonrider
09-15-2010, 12:10 AM
Isn't that the same foreshadowing that was also shown in JSA, about the current DCU evolving into a much more Kingdom Come-like universe? In Kingdom Come, Batman also uses his vast networks of street level heroes, second generation heroes, and drones, to clean up other heroes' mess and save people internationally.

MARK A ROBINSON
09-15-2010, 01:36 AM
NO! Dick shouldn't hand over the cowl. I liked him as Batman.

Now THAT would be a good story line right there.

i mean think about that.


M.

CHWolf
09-15-2010, 01:47 AM
I think that storyline would probably be over pretty quickly, probably ending with a throat punch.

MARK A ROBINSON
09-15-2010, 02:13 AM
I think that storyline would probably be over pretty quickly, probably ending with a throat punch.

You're right.

Cassandra would make short work of Dick after he took the old man down.

But it would be awesome.

M.

fluxchild
09-15-2010, 03:42 AM
Dick and Tim should Baker Act Bruce and give Damien to the Joker. Wasn't Dick the bad guy in the horrible Dark Knight stirkes back? I can't even type the title without getting an upset tummy.

ronin7
09-15-2010, 09:58 AM
Dick and Tim should Baker Act Bruce and give Damien to the Joker. Wasn't Dick the bad guy in the horrible Dark Knight stirkes back? I can't even type the title without getting an upset tummy.


There was nothing horrible about the Dark Knight Strikes Back. Miller was making a call for a return to innocence in comics with that book. To replace the walls with something new, or old. Instead of repeating the grim and gritty he and Moore created.

fluxchild
09-15-2010, 04:39 PM
There was nothing horrible about the Dark Knight Strikes Back. Miller was making a call for a return to innocence in comics with that book. To replace the walls with something new, or old. Instead of repeating the grim and gritty he and Moore created.

I didn't like it

HaphazardJoy
09-15-2010, 05:20 PM
I didn't like it

Me neither.

Paul Sanderson
09-15-2010, 06:26 PM
Me neither neither.

Moonrider
09-15-2010, 11:49 PM
There was nothing horrible about the Dark Knight Strikes Back. Miller was making a call for a return to innocence in comics with that book. To replace the walls with something new, or old. Instead of repeating the grim and gritty he and Moore created.

And he does that by killing Dick Grayson. Srsly. :yawn:

ronin7
09-16-2010, 08:05 AM
And he does that by killing Dick Grayson. Srsly. :yawn:

He was making fun of DC's abuse of the Robin character. Such as when they killed Jason Todd.

fluxchild
09-16-2010, 12:12 PM
it didn't make sense. So why dress Carrie like the Catwoman when she was a kick ass Robin? Why even write that nonsense at all? I just didn't feel it...i get a bad taste in my mouth just thinking about it.

ronin7
09-16-2010, 05:35 PM
it didn't make sense. So why dress Carrie like the Catwoman when she was a kick ass Robin? Why even write that nonsense at all? I just didn't feel it...i get a bad taste in my mouth just thinking about it.

The logical progression from Robin is to be the next Batman. That wasn't a place the Batman wanted Carrie to go. Not because she couldn't hold her own, but because her skills are based on her speed and quick thinking. If you think about everything Selina Kyle was, she was beauty, speed, grace, and a quick thinker. Which is why she remained such a seductive foe of the Batman.

I think based on this, the Batman gave Carrie the role because she reminded him of Selina and her skills suited the ideal behind the symbol of the identity perfectly.

Biofungus
09-16-2010, 05:37 PM
The logical progression from Robin is to be the next Batman. That wasn't a place the Batman wanted Carrie to go. Not because she couldn't hold her own, but because her skills are based on her speed and quick thinking. If you think about everything Selina Kyle was, she was beauty, speed, grace, and a quick thinker. Which is why she remained such a seductive foe of the Batman.

I think based on this, the Batman gave Carrie the role because she reminded him of Selina and her skills suited the ideal behind the symbol of the identity perfectly.
And Batwoman wasn't an option because...

Paul Sanderson
09-16-2010, 06:54 PM
The Dark Knight Strikes Again was a load of garbage. Everyone knows this. Move on.

Biofungus
09-16-2010, 08:03 PM
Frank Miller even said that. He said it was a story that shouldn't have gotten a sequel, but DC threw oodles of money at him to do it, so he basically spit in their eye.

ronin7
09-17-2010, 08:33 AM
And Batwoman wasn't an option because...


Because that would have been the logical progression from Robin. She would have been his replacement. He didn't want a replacement, he wanted Carrie to uphold the old idols from the Silver Age. DKS was all about Miller saying look the Silver Age is superior to the garbage written now. All these imitators need to stop aping me and Moore, and write works that say something about themselves. That stay true to the foundations the medium was built on.

Biofungus
09-17-2010, 03:55 PM
Wow, you like to read a lot into things that aren't there, dontcha?

:)

ronin7
09-17-2010, 07:02 PM
Wow, you like to read a lot into things that aren't there, dontcha?

:)


You mean like Morrison and Moore idiots who read too much into their work when they are really saying very little other than babbling incoherently on a drug high? ;)

Biofungus
09-17-2010, 07:50 PM
You mean like Morrison and Moore idiots who read too much into their work when they are really saying very little other than babbling incoherently on a drug high? ;)
Yes, exactly like them :)

Moonrider
09-19-2010, 06:23 AM
He was making fun of DC's abuse of the Robin character. Such as when they killed Jason Todd.

Not fun. It stinks. Batman Beyond: Return of The Joker did it better.

Paul Sanderson
09-19-2010, 07:04 AM
Not fun. It stinks. Batman Beyond: Return of The Joker did it better.

Agreed, not that the latter was great either, though.

captainarian
09-23-2010, 05:20 AM
omg, intense is alive... and i though i was the one dead in the forums. :w00t:

i'll miss nightwing.

Moonrider
09-23-2010, 10:48 PM
I have my own idea about the direction Bruce Wayne's character should be heading (which I know Frank would dreadfully hate, with a passion :p). I think Bruce should step away from the cowl permanently (blasphemy!!!!) and take on a much more important role in the DC universe. At his age and experience, he should know enough that evil cannot be stopped only by venturing the city every night beating up every bad guy in the neighbourhood. Evil is something much larger and more horrifying than a random act of violence. To be able to stop evil from its very core, he would have to become more than a symbol, but also an ideal.
So all that jibber jabber means that I think Bruce should remake himself into some kind of 'Illusive Man' from Mass Effect 2. Put him in a book where he goes solo not as Batman but as Bruce Wayne, silently pulling the strings behind the whole world to create a better place. Create an endless string of network and agents, support covert operations where he can hand pick any collection of people to be his Outsiders. Tricking allies and foes to do his bidding. He should be above Checkmate, JSA, and any organization or country that exist in the world. He shouldn't be a Nick Fury type of character, but ten notch above that. A true Outsider, so to speak. He used to fight crime by force, now he will fight evil with power and wealth. Think about it, it could be interesting because it will be part espionage, part superheroics, part solo title, part team book, but it's still true to the spirit of Bruce Wayne who will do just about anything to avenge the death of his parents and rid the world of evil. Face it, just as TDK and DKR proved, an old man still prancing around in his leotards fighting punks is just sad.

Paul Sanderson
09-23-2010, 11:06 PM
I wouldn't mind that sort of thing temporarilly, Moonie (I've been enjoying Dick as Batman, for example), but not long term. This is fiction, so Bruce need never age and need never reach the old age shown in TDK et al. That's the beauty of fiction :)

Moonrider
09-24-2010, 09:05 AM
Well, until some hotshot writer tries to reboot the franchise, I can live with watching Bruce Wayne not as Batman for many years. :)

Paul Sanderson
09-24-2010, 10:46 AM
Sorry for you, that won't be the case. Bruce is back and back for good (until the next temporary storyline takes him away from the cowl briefly).

Moonrider
09-24-2010, 01:22 PM
Sorry for you, that won't be the case. Bruce is back and back for good (until the next temporary storyline takes him away from the cowl briefly).

I meant that as an if.

Paul Sanderson
09-24-2010, 10:52 PM
Then you should say if. In any case, it'll never happen, and that's a good thing.

ronin7
09-25-2010, 08:31 AM
What do you guys think of the suit redesign with the sap gloves and a more combat oriented look?

I myself always figured Batman was using sap gloves because he'd break his knuckles on guys like Killer Croc's jaws.

Paul Sanderson
09-25-2010, 07:45 PM
I haven't seen it yet, but it makes sense.

Moonrider
09-25-2010, 10:35 PM
Then you should say if. In any case, it'll never happen, and that's a good thing.

Oh, I'm sorry. I thought when I'm commenting a comment about my opinions, there should not be any misconception that leads to the thought that what I stated are factual news. In any case, comics aren't made to be read only for one particular person, and that's a good thing. :)

Paul Sanderson
09-26-2010, 05:43 AM
And I'm stating my opinion that it'll never happen. It just so happens that my opinion will actually be fact while yours will just remain an opinion. Oh well, sad for you... :p :laugh:

ronin7
09-26-2010, 06:04 PM
what made B.W. step away from the Batman role, in the first place? i'm asking, because i haven't kept up on it too much, and I can't afford to go buy a bunch of back issues, to find out for myself.


In short, he shot Darkseid who was possessing Dan Turpin's body with a Kirby gun loaded with a Radium bullet. Darkseid in kind fired his Omega Effect and supposedly killed him. Or so every hero thought until the end of Final Crisis showed that Bruce was alive in the past and had to fight his way back to the present.

Final Crisis was Morrison's worst work. Up there with New X-Men, and his JLA run. His Batman run has been up and down more than a roller coaster. I think if he'd stay off the drugs. He'd put out a much more quality Batman run.

ronin7
09-26-2010, 07:23 PM
oh, i thought that B.W. had done something that compromised his beliefs in not causing grievous/fatal harm to anyone, not even his adversaries, and thus he stepped away to deal with the resulting psychological turmoil that may have resulted from said compromising act.

Nope, it was just a dumb story to get Dick in the costume and show little DC thinks of Dick Grayson.

Moonrider
09-29-2010, 09:20 PM
And I'm stating my opinion that it'll never happen. It just so happens that my opinion will actually be fact while yours will just remain an opinion. Oh well, sad for you... :p :laugh:

How could I be sad, Frank? I have you in my life. :)

Mark Bertolini
10-05-2010, 01:22 PM
How could I be sad, Frank? I have you in my life. :)


Get a room.

Biofungus
10-05-2010, 05:46 PM
Get a room.
That would have been funnier if you had said, "Get a chat room, you two".

Paul Sanderson
10-05-2010, 06:29 PM
How could I be sad, Frank? I have you in my life. :)

Get in line, pal. I'm beloved the world over :laugh: ;)

Moonrider
10-06-2010, 12:49 PM
Get a room.

What? There's nothing gay about it. I love you too, Mark.

Moonrider
10-08-2010, 10:05 PM
Morrison's interview about Batman. Inc.

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/bat-breakdown-grant-morrison-101008.html

Interesting. It actually played out the way I wanted to, only difference being Bruce still wearing the bat suit with a different symbol. Nice little nod to the Tim Burton movie, too.

ronin7
10-08-2010, 10:17 PM
Morrison's interview about Batman. Inc.

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/bat-breakdown-grant-morrison-101008.html

Interesting. It actually played out the way I wanted to, only difference being Bruce still wearing the bat suit with a different symbol. Nice little nod to the Tim Burton movie, too.


I think Morrison's run has been uneven. Denny O'Neil has done some of the tricks Morrison has used better. Such as the Joker issue with minimal art and lots of text.

Paul Sanderson
10-08-2010, 10:23 PM
Yeah, it's all been done before and better by better writers. Colour me disinterested.

Moonrider
10-09-2010, 12:01 AM
Denny O'Neil has done some of the tricks Morrison has used better. Such as the Joker issue with minimal art and lots of text.

Not too keen on Knightfall, though. First try on replacing Batman and they wound up using a character that is basically an a-hole with zero redeeming qualities, unlike Damian.

Paul Sanderson
10-09-2010, 12:53 AM
Some people do think of Damien in that way, though (not that he's replacing Batman here either. Dick is). I like Dick and Damien as Batman & Robin, though, so I don't mind them sticking around in those roles, but to have two (or more) Batman's at the same time is just too dumb for words. I realise it will no doubt only be temporary, but still...

ronin7
10-09-2010, 07:46 AM
Not too keen on Knightfall, though. First try on replacing Batman and they wound up using a character that is basically an a-hole with zero redeeming qualities, unlike Damian.

It was the fans fault. They clamored for a more Punisher like character. When DC delivered. They got cold feet. I think it was a great story because Dixon got to write Prodigal where Dick realized he had long left Batman's shadow. Of course, that was until Devin Grayson made him a whining simp and buried him back in Batman's shadow.

ronin7
10-09-2010, 07:54 AM
Some people do think of Damien in that way, though (not that he's replacing Batman here either. Dick is). I like Dick and Damien as Batman & Robin, though, so I don't mind them sticking around in those roles, but to have two (or more) Batman's at the same time is just too dumb for words. I realise it will no doubt only be temporary, but still...


Agreed. I also think it's stupid Batman franchising out his name, or at least his symbol.

Moonrider
10-09-2010, 08:47 AM
It was the fans fault. They clamored for a more Punisher like character. When DC delivered. They got cold feet. I think it was a great story because Dixon got to write Prodigal where Dick realized he had long left Batman's shadow. Of course, that was until Devin Grayson made him a whining simp and buried him back in Batman's shadow.

I actually bought and read Dennis O'Neill's novelization of Knightfall and the story was better written there than on the four color medium. I still love to read the novel, but the comics were... I don't know, sort of a mess. It's fairly an adult story dumbed down and mixed up with several fugly design choices and bad art. When you read the novel, it's clear that it has a real beginning, middle, and an end. It actually feels like a real story, not an editorial mandate.

I don't know where you get that it was the fans fault, but from what I read in O'Neill's notes featured in the novel, it's clear that DC deliberately 'give the fans what they want' and crank it up so that fans realized that they were wrong and demand their old Batman back. It's all mind games from DC's part, not just about testing the waters. I expect no less from DC with the direction Morrison is heading, but that's just me.

fluxchild
10-11-2010, 03:44 PM
I think the whole Batman inc. idea makes sense. What could be more intimidating than reading that batman just busted up a prostitution ring in tailand, and then not minutes later he's busting up your drug ringin Gotham? I think it strengthens the superstition, or mythos if you will.

ronin7
10-11-2010, 06:03 PM
I think the whole Batman inc. idea makes sense. What could be more intimidating than reading that batman just busted up a prostitution ring in tailand, and then not minutes later he's busting up your drug ringin Gotham? I think it strengthens the superstition, or mythos if you will.


Three problems with that.

1. The government KNOWS Bruce Wayne is Batman. With advance satellite technology, skilled private investigators, deep cover agents, and the fact they took his Brother Eye satellite under his nose pretty much removes all doubt that they don't know. They don't bother him because they consider him a loon who keeps the loons in Gotham in check.

2. Batman has only once ever formed an organization of heroes. It was the Outsiders, and they were his bitches. Not his equals. He only created the team because the JLA wouldn't listen to him. So, he quit believing them to be naive fools. These other similar heroes wouldn't care much for Batman nosing into their business. Telling them how they SHOULD fight crime instead of learning from THEM.

3. Gotham is Batman's focus. He doesn't give a damn about anywhere else, but Gotham. He only travels out of Gotham if it's a mission to protect Gotham or a personal interest of his. He's not going to care about a Mr. Unknown and his imbecilic villains. Or any of the other heroes inspired by him.

Paul Sanderson
10-11-2010, 06:19 PM
Agreed, ronin. Let's hope this particular storyline disappears as quickly as possible. Batman Inc. is just too stupid, even by modern comic standards.

CHWolf
10-11-2010, 06:27 PM
So essentially a comic book character can't change his mind or outlook on life/the world?

Paul Sanderson
10-11-2010, 06:43 PM
Batman isn't that type of character. He's very set in his ways. If he weren't, he wouldn't be Batman.

ronin7
10-11-2010, 07:04 PM
So essentially a comic book character can't change his mind or outlook on life/the world?


As Paul said, Batman isn't that type of character. He's bull headed. Once he goes into a set course, he doesn't veer from it.

ronin7
10-11-2010, 07:05 PM
Agreed, ronin. Let's hope this particular storyline disappears as quickly as possible. Batman Inc. is just too stupid, even by modern comic standards.


It won't last too long, Morrison will get bored and move onto another project. Then they will put some one else on Batman to shift to the opposite polarity.

fluxchild
10-11-2010, 07:24 PM
i don't agree with that at all except that they will change everything sooner than later

Paul Sanderson
10-11-2010, 07:25 PM
Agreed. Batman Inc. won't be a permanent move, I realise. Sooner or later, Dick will be out, as will all the others, and Bruce will become the only, true Batman again.

Biofungus
10-11-2010, 08:46 PM
Maybe the big question now is, will Dick re-take the "Nightwing" moniker? I mean, NW has pretty much always been "Batman Lite", so now that he's actually been Batman, will he accept such a demotion?

Paul Sanderson
10-11-2010, 09:54 PM
He accepted it before when he was Batman the first time around, I don't see why he wouldn't do it again.

Moonrider
10-11-2010, 10:09 PM
As Paul said, Batman isn't that type of character. He's bull headed. Once he goes into a set course, he doesn't veer from it.

You're making it sound like he's a one dimensional character.

Moonrider
10-11-2010, 10:16 PM
Another interesting tidbit from Dennis O'Neill's notes in Batman: Knightfall novelization, is that Batman itself has changed bit by bit over the years. The times change the man, though he's essentially the same guy. Once he was kicking Cossacks' heads and slapping bitches, then he got tame and turn into a happy go lucky adventurer, then a straight out superhero with a charming streak, then the grim detective, then an angry man with borderline sociopathic tendency, then just a creepy asshole, then an estranged father with three sons, then he'll change again.

So now I ask, what is his status quo?

CHWolf
10-11-2010, 10:26 PM
Wait, wait, wait, wait...

Let's go step by step, here.


He's set in his ways... until he's not. There are plenty of storylines where the character pulls a complete 180... to the point of killing someone, or letting someone else be Batman...

He's had bad experiences letting others "play Batman"... but so what? Jason Todd basically got sodomized with a crowbar, but there have been a couple Robins since then. The whole "How could I have put a CHILD in DANGERRRRR?!" thing passed, so too can this.

Plus there's the fact that, as stated, this all serves some sort of purpose that hasn't been disclosed. Unless that's been leaked and I didn't see it - how does anyone know to take this on face value?

Hell, maybe Bats "came back" with some knowledge - let's say he's about to get freakin' killed by (insert incurable condition) anyway, and someone needs to take up his role. If he's not hot on Dick (lol) then maybe this is like American Idol for crime-fighting nutjobs.



I mean, if we *really* want to get into what "is" or "isn't" Batman's style... we can go dig up several ridiculous things he's done in current continuity, and Lord help us if we go back to the era of Adam Westian foppery.



Edit: Oop, missed the last page, here, before replying and re-covered some of Moonrider's points.

Paul Sanderson
10-11-2010, 11:05 PM
You're making it sound like he's a one dimensional character.

No, because within his psyche is a rich mine of characterization. But his mission is always the same. Always!

fluxchild
10-11-2010, 11:29 PM
The reason I disagree is that there are only two elements you don't see Batman dealing with a whole lot. Space, and supernatural foes. Not that he doesn't do that, just that it hardly happens. Just recent he's been out of Gotham bunchess, and he's always with the League.
If Batman was a worldwide phenomenon he'd be more powerful than even Superman. Even though he is already.
Batman would hand Superman his own ass in a cup.

HaphazardJoy
10-11-2010, 11:52 PM
The reason I disagree is that there are only two elements you don't see Batman dealing with a whole lot. Space, and supernatural foes.


WTF am I reading?

I agree with keeping Batman out of cosmic stories, but there's a long history of using Batman with supernatural stories for minis, one that works really well in my opinion. A mix of Sherlock Holmes and the gothic novel, it's really right up Bats' alley. Even more so with the recent Batwoman run of Detective Comics, which still pisses me off that they ended it rather than handing her her own title or keeping her on Detective. "Hey, let's create a Batwoman that's a lesbian, that'll be shocking! Then we'll dump her for months!". "Okay, fans put up with that garbage, so let's put her in Detective Comics and start to develop her into a worthwhile character and then just sideline her with crippling injuries so she doesn't distract from our shitty Return of Bruce Wayne story".

Moonrider
10-12-2010, 12:09 AM
No, because within his psyche is a rich mine of characterization. But his mission is always the same. Always!

I wasn't talking to you. ;)

But I digress, let's start with his 'mission'. It is 'to fight evil', yes? Then how is making Batman into a bigger symbol than he already is and actually ask for help contradict himself from carrying out that mission? Sure his methods are slightly different than from when he started out, but you'd think that if you're Batman for so long and people start to be less scared of you, villains keep getting more and more powerful, and crime has yet to be eradicated from the face of the earth, you'd try and come up with some better and more efficient way to fight crime.

Heck, as a fictional character he's a fully grown man that doesn't need to be told what to do by some fan who never even throw a punch, let alone fight crime.

fluxchild
10-12-2010, 12:41 AM
WTF am I reading?

I agree with keeping Batman out of cosmic stories, but there's a long history of using Batman with supernatural stories for minis, one that works really well in my opinion. A mix of Sherlock Holmes and the gothic novel, it's really right up Bats' alley. Even more so with the recent Batwoman run of Detective Comics, which still pisses me off that they ended it rather than handing her her own title or keeping her on Detective. "Hey, let's create a Batwoman that's a lesbian, that'll be shocking! Then we'll dump her for months!". "Okay, fans put up with that garbage, so let's put her in Detective Comics and start to develop her into a worthwhile character and then just sideline her with crippling injuries so she doesn't distract from our shitty Return of Bruce Wayne story".


You misunderstand. I said they don't use supernatural enemies alot. I think using Batman for supernatural stories is great because he doesn't believe in the supernatural. No matter how many times he fights with Etrigan as ally or foe, he still automatically thinks it isn't the supernatural.

fluxchild
10-12-2010, 12:43 AM
I wasn't talking to you. ;)

But I digress, let's start with his 'mission'. It is 'to fight evil', yes? Then how is making Batman into a bigger symbol than he already is and actually ask for help contradict himself from carrying out that mission? Sure his methods are slightly different than from when he started out, but you'd think that if you're Batman for so long and people start to be less scared of you, villains keep getting more and more powerful, and crime has yet to be eradicated from the face of the earth, you'd try and come up with some better and more efficient way to fight crime.

Heck, as a fictional character he's a fully grown man that doesn't need to be told what to do by some fan who never even throw a punch, let alone fight crime.

I'm surprised they didn't go this route before, especially with the Batmen scenario in multiple stories...even The Dark Knight, even if he didn't authorize the use of the symbol.

Paul Sanderson
10-12-2010, 01:29 AM
Because Batman sees it as his sole mission. He prefers to work alone, and only works with others when he feels he needs to. That's not the case here except in Morrison's fevered imaginings. But don't worry, it's only temporary, this won't last long, rest assured, Moonie.

Moonrider
10-12-2010, 03:32 AM
Because Batman sees it as his sole mission. He prefers to work alone, and only works with others when he feels he needs to. That's not the case here except in Morrison's fevered imaginings. But don't worry, it's only temporary, this won't last long, rest assured, Moonie.

Yes. And pretty soon after that, Dick Grayson will return as Robin.

CHWolf
10-12-2010, 12:16 PM
Frankly, the dude writing Batman (yeah, and editors, etc.) decides what Batman would or wouldn't do. :D

Mark Bertolini
10-13-2010, 01:16 PM
Frankly, the dude writing Batman (yeah, and editors, etc.) decides what Batman would or wouldn't do. :D


Never! The voice of the plebe on the internet forum should dictate what they do with their characters!

CHWolf
10-13-2010, 02:06 PM
Thank heavens! I thought I killed the thread.

But yeah - they let people vote on whether or not Jason Todd should die, so maybe they could... well, wait. I guess they didn't end up honoring that anyway.

Nevermind. -_-

Paul Sanderson
10-13-2010, 06:26 PM
Dick will eventually become Nightwing again I'm sure, Moonie. It's just the way of things.

Moonrider
10-13-2010, 07:05 PM
Dick will eventually become Nightwing again I'm sure, Moonie. It's just the way of things.

Yes and eventually he'll be back as Robin because Nightwing is temporary and won't last long. It's just the way of things.

HaphazardJoy
10-13-2010, 07:29 PM
Yes and eventually he'll be back as Robin because Nightwing is temporary and won't last long. It's just the way of things.

Character who had his own ongoing for thirteen years... temporary.

Alrighty then.

ronin7
10-13-2010, 07:34 PM
Character who had his own ongoing for thirteen years... temporary.

Alrighty then.


Yeah, it was critically acclaimed too and has a good sized fanbase. Well, until Devin Grayson got her hands on the book.

Paul Sanderson
10-13-2010, 07:40 PM
He outgrew Robin and progressed, naturally to his new persona of Nightwing. He'll return to it in due course I feel sure.

fluxchild
10-13-2010, 09:12 PM
I think he should get another alias. Or at least change his uniform to something more batmanesque

CHWolf
10-14-2010, 12:56 AM
Er... I think Moonrider was being sarcastic.

In other words, if you think "back to normal" is always how things will turn out in comics, then why didn't Dick go back to being Robin, which would be "the way of things".

At least that's what I got out of it.



Would like to see Dick and Barbara rejeuvinated, in the same title as a sort of duo. <_<


Anyone who quotes "Would like to see Dick" by itself gets a punch in the spongeys.

fluxchild
10-14-2010, 03:14 AM
i wasn't exactly responding to moonrider's post. that's what I wnt if he's not batman

Paul Sanderson
10-14-2010, 04:45 AM
Er... I think Moonrider was being sarcastic.

In other words, if you think "back to normal" is always how things will turn out in comics, then why didn't Dick go back to being Robin, which would be "the way of things".

At least that's what I got out of it.



Would like to see Dick and Barbara rejeuvinated, in the same title as a sort of duo. <_<


Anyone who quotes "Would like to see Dick" by itself gets a punch in the spongeys.

Yes, Moonie was being sarcastic, but nevertheless, at some point, Bruce will go back to being the sole Batman and Dick undoubtedly Nightwing again. Dick returning to Robin is never, would never, be "the way of things." He gave that role up nearly 30 years ago now. Nightwing is his rightful persona and will no doubt return to it at some stage.

Moonrider
10-14-2010, 11:01 AM
Yes, Moonie was being sarcastic, but nevertheless, at some point, Bruce will go back to being the sole Batman and Dick undoubtedly Nightwing again. Dick returning to Robin is never, would never, be "the way of things." He gave that role up nearly 30 years ago now. Nightwing is his rightful persona and will no doubt return to it at some stage.

Which proves the point that there was never a status quo for a comic book character in the first place. Otherwise, Dick Grayson would have been Robin forever. Anything you say has been about denying progress saying 'things will return the way it was' blah blab blah well guess what, the way it was is the fact that things are always changing. Move on. Get with it, old man. Comics are for kids with lively imaginations.