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View Full Version : What hero would make a great villian?


kamikaze
08-13-2010, 03:34 PM
title speaks for itself. What Marvel hero would make for a good story as a villian? I could see Storm as a good choice.

Mark Bertolini
08-13-2010, 03:44 PM
Iron Man.

I always wanted them to turn Tony Stark into an evil badass. The setup was all there: he injected himself with the Extremis virus. Who knows what that could have done to his mind?

And he had access to all the registered superheroes. He could have been an awesome, awful villain.

WriterX
08-13-2010, 03:49 PM
Honestly I think if written right, Nightcrawler would be a sweet bad guy.

CHWolf
08-13-2010, 06:23 PM
I don't know if it's been done before, but I always wanted to see (the real) Captain America twisted (by some shadow Government agency, of course) into everything people fear about the USA.

Stomping protestors and infringing on people's rights in the name of 'security' against some greater threat... going overseas and beheading dictators left and right with a toss of his shield while quipping "Freedom is on the march, mother%&$#er."

Cue the Avengers on a globe-trotting mission to track him down and bring him back to his senses.

Biofungus
08-13-2010, 07:19 PM
Wolverine.

Seriously. Because he's practically unbeatable. Making him a villain gives a legitimate challenge to the heroes. I mean, he's like a deus ex machina for the good guys, but what can they do/use when he's the threat?

Aaron Wilder
08-13-2010, 07:29 PM
The Hulk and Namor always made better bad guys than good guys IMO.

If I had to pick a good guy to switch over to the dark side it would probaby be Iron Fist. Mystical powers and a history in the Orient (including some prison time) would make him an impressive head of the Yakuza or head of Hydra. Throw in bulletproof bodyguard Luke Cage and that's a good start. He could easily be dropped into Kingpin's place in Daredevil, or Doom's in Fantastic Four.

Doctor Shock
08-13-2010, 07:33 PM
Superman. Who could stop him?

Biofungus
08-13-2010, 07:54 PM
Superman. Who could stop him?
Batman.

RandallFlagg
08-13-2010, 08:27 PM
Nick Fury. He's like the goddamn Batman. With his particular set of skills and resources, he could easily become one of the most terrifying and awesome villains the Avengers and the rest of the Marvel Universe ever face.

kamikaze
08-13-2010, 08:47 PM
I thought about Cap, too. He would be a beast and an immediate threat to the US. All those secrets, he would be hunted mercilessly.

Biofungus
08-13-2010, 10:25 PM
I'd like to add this thought to everybody before they post (and why I feel Captain A wouldn't be a good choice):

You take a lifelong hero like Captain A, who's always stood by his convictions, and even making him a villain, eventually he's going to have to be redeemed (which seldom turns out well in comics).

Try to consider someone who could basically "walk the line" and even if he goes "good" again, would still be more of a vigilante/anti-hero than an actual good guy. That would make the character's story worth following post "heel turn".

fluxchild
08-13-2010, 11:15 PM
ok bio, Spiderman then. He's never been evil...I don't think. Symbiote doesn't count, it wasn't really him.
I think Cyclops would be a great villain...

Phatman
08-14-2010, 02:08 AM
Marvel:

Reed Richards or Dr. Strange

DC:

Bruce Wayne or the Flash

Allegory Comics
08-14-2010, 10:28 AM
What's up with Daredevil? Are they making him a villain now?

Moonrider
08-15-2010, 04:36 AM
Wolverine.

Seriously. Because he's practically unbeatable. Making him a villain gives a legitimate challenge to the heroes. I mean, he's like a deus ex machina for the good guys, but what can they do/use when he's the threat?

I think they tried that once with him in Enemy of The State. Besides, we already have Daken.

ronin7
08-15-2010, 08:01 AM
You know, if they actually made the Hulk a villain, there is very few people who could stop him from doing massive property damage. He would be the worst blight on the world. Which he already is of course.

WriterX
08-16-2010, 02:51 AM
Someone said Cyclops...really? I have always hated him. He's a poor char and should be killed off. He's like a girl scout with eye lasers.

ronin7
08-16-2010, 05:25 AM
Someone said Cyclops...really? I have always hated him. He's a poor char and should be killed off. He's like a girl scout with eye lasers.


Have you hated him just recently, or have you hated him for as long as you have read X-Men?

fluxchild
08-16-2010, 07:57 AM
I think Cyclops could be a strong character, but it's easy to go the boy scout route with him.

ronin7
08-16-2010, 08:36 AM
I think Cyclops could be a strong character, but it's easy to go the boy scout route with him.

Claremont showed some of Cyclops best moments, but also his worst moments. But, either way Cyclops has always been one of my favorite X-Men. But, Wolverine has always topped my list with Beast coming in second and Nightcrawler at 3.

WriterX
08-18-2010, 03:56 AM
Have you hated him just recently, or have you hated him for as long as you have read X-Men?


X-Men is what got me into comics when I was little. For as long as I can remember reading them I've hated Cyclops. He doesn't fit, and never has. At least the movies got him right when Jean went missing and he turned into a whiny girl (exactly how he is in the comics). Wolverine used to be my all time favorite char, however Marvel ruined him for me, and now I strictly read DC, and Image. Haven't touched Marvel in a LONG, LONG time.

ronin7
08-18-2010, 07:06 AM
X-Men is what got me into comics when I was little. For as long as I can remember reading them I've hated Cyclops. He doesn't fit, and never has. At least the movies got him right when Jean went missing and he turned into a whiny girl (exactly how he is in the comics). Wolverine used to be my all time favorite char, however Marvel ruined him for me, and now I strictly read DC, and Image. Haven't touched Marvel in a LONG, LONG time.


Sad to hear that man. I also grew up on X-Men as well as Pre-crisis Superman and Batman comics. As well as other comics of that period. The eigthies was a great time to be a comic fan.

WriterX
08-18-2010, 04:17 PM
Yeah it kinda sucks. I remember how incredibly excited I would get when it was time to grab X-Men again, Wolverine was my hero. Around the time that "Death of Superman" happened with Doomsday is when I started migrating over to the DC side.

My son is just starting to get into comics, in fact we're running up to the shop today so I can grab my titles, and he wants to grab a Star Wars one. I'm kinda iffy of him picking up any Marvel stuff. Don't want him to end up disappointed as well, lol.

ronin7
08-18-2010, 06:32 PM
Yeah it kinda sucks. I remember how incredibly excited I would get when it was time to grab X-Men again, Wolverine was my hero. Around the time that "Death of Superman" happened with Doomsday is when I started migrating over to the DC side.

My son is just starting to get into comics, in fact we're running up to the shop today so I can grab my titles, and he wants to grab a Star Wars one. I'm kinda iffy of him picking up any Marvel stuff. Don't want him to end up disappointed as well, lol.


The only Marvel works I buy is from Bendis and Brubaker. Everyone else, no thanks. JMS is over at DC so I am waiting for the first trade of Earth One Superman. Too bad the rest of Earth One Superman will be the singles.

RandallFlagg
08-19-2010, 01:48 AM
Definitely Reed Richards. He's the smartest dude in the Marvel Universe, he knows everyone's dirty little secrets, and in the past he has been shown to be coldly logical, almost to the point of inhumanity. ALMOST. That said, I think that under a certain set of circumstances, he could easily be pushed to the breaking point. He could be Doom like in how great at evil he is.

HaphazardJoy
08-19-2010, 02:42 PM
Storm? Nightcrawler? Captain America? You people are on crack.

WriterX
08-19-2010, 03:08 PM
Nightcrawler would make a badass bad guy

HaphazardJoy
08-19-2010, 04:01 PM
Nightcrawler would make a badass bad guy

How would he become a villain in the first place?

MattWaterman
08-19-2010, 04:01 PM
Storm? Nightcrawler? Captain America? You people are on crack.

+1

I do like the Iron Man suggestion though it seems like it's already been half-told with Civil War. I mean, the whole idea of power corrupting and all that. It'd be interesting to see him fighting literally ALL the heroes and still not realizing that he has, in fact, become a villain. Hamlet-esque...

Wolverine? He's always been sort of a anti-hero anyway depending who's writing him. Not much change there, IMO.

And Mark's right about the major heroes dilemma: Sooner or later they have to "get better". Daredevil had a dark period for about three seconds in the Ann Nocenti era and I seem to remember others doing similar (either they, themselves, or someone else in the costume). But sooner or later, as a serial, the hero always has to come back to his core, making the whole thing a little...gimmicky.

What about Franklin Richards? What's he up to these days? What if, as a pre-teen he starts rebelling a little, then a little more, a little more until he's full on out of control? Normally I find the Fantastic Four boring as all hell but, in terms that 'family theme' that is always done with them, Franklin turning flat out evil could be a real shock: Reed and Sue's disappointment, both in Franklin and themselves...Torch and Thing's take on him gradually going out of control...other heroes seeing trouble on the horizon...Doom sticking his nose in. It'd be like Magneto and Quicksilver, perhaps, but far more of a tragedy...

HaphazardJoy
08-19-2010, 04:03 PM
I will say that I like the Dr. Strange and Reed Richards suggestions. I have a hard time imagining a story that could plausibly push them into villainy, but if that story was out of the way, they'd make fantastically (har) deep and challenging enemies.

WriterX
08-20-2010, 04:04 PM
I have no idea honestly how Nightcrawler would become a bad guy. I just think with his dark look, and his abilities he would make one hell of a bad guy to mess with.

Moonrider
08-20-2010, 07:06 PM
I find Nightcrawler to be the least interesting character to turn into a villain.

HaphazardJoy
08-20-2010, 09:18 PM
I have no idea honestly how Nightcrawler would become a bad guy. I just think with his dark look, and his abilities he would make one hell of a bad guy to mess with.

In that case you could just have his father or one of his brothers return from the sealed dimension they're locked in, or repower his brother Abyss. I mean, it's kinda moot right now anyway considering Nightcrawler's current status, but Kurt is a hero through and through. He just wouldn't BE a villain in the first place. Just because he looks badass and would make for an interesting fight doesn't mean he'd make a great villain, because the character doesn't fit. If you really wanted to explore that, you could even just have a danger room sequence with him as an opponent. I think it's the same deal with Storm or Cap. Sure, they'd make tough adversaries, but how the heck would they ever turn evil? It's just not in their character.

Someone like Reed Richards is different. He's aloof and cold to a degree. Imagine a storyline where his family is stripped from him, and the only way he could get them back is by tampering with dangerous science that could destroy the whole world. He MIGHT just do that, even if he was opposed by his former friends. While not pure evil, he could definitely turn villainous and turn a blind eye to the rest of the world in pursuit of his own wants. It's still a little bit of a stretch (har), but THAT is in his character to a much greater degree than the potential for a character like Nightcrawler in my opinion.

WriterX
08-21-2010, 12:10 AM
Someone I forgot about until right now...Moon Knight. He's a bad ass already, but he seems feasible. :bounce:

fluxchild
08-21-2010, 01:13 AM
Rick Jones...just for the heartache and loss he has endure because of superheroes. As a matter of fact, there should be a group of sidekicks that team up to wreak havok on the world...

HaphazardJoy
08-21-2010, 09:06 AM
Rick Jones...just for the heartache and loss he has endure because of superheroes. As a matter of fact, there should be a group of sidekicks that team up to wreak havok on the world...

Jubilee's a vampire now, so hey, why not?!

WriterX
08-21-2010, 02:28 PM
Jubilee is a vampire? wtf...

Phatman
08-21-2010, 02:49 PM
I will say that I like the Dr. Strange and Reed Richards suggestions. I have a hard time imagining a story that could plausibly push them into villainy, but if that story was out of the way, they'd make fantastically (har) deep and challenging enemies.

Richards could easily be pushed that direction. He has a monster ego and shows a lack of judgement when it comes to discovery and scientific innovation. Bill Foster's death is one of many examples of his hubris IMO. Not to mention cursing his best friend to a life as a lumpy orange monster to cash another one of his ego checks.

Strange operates on another level above usual human concerns. He could take a path that would put him in direct opposition to what people view as "good" or "evil" and take on that role.

Moonrider
08-22-2010, 03:38 AM
Squirrel Girl. 'Nuff said.

HaphazardJoy
08-22-2010, 09:09 AM
Strange operates on another level above usual human concerns. He could take a path that would put him in direct opposition to what people view as "good" or "evil" and take on that role.

Good point on that. Imagine a threat that demanded some terrible, demonic rites to be performed if Earth was to have any chance at survival. Strange could probably be pushed to some pretty awful things in the name of greater "good". Things that normal heroes would refuse to accept but which Strange would see differently.

Biofungus
08-23-2010, 02:19 AM
Good point on that. Imagine a threat that demanded some terrible, demonic rites to be performed if Earth was to have any chance at survival. Strange could probably be pushed to some pretty awful things in the name of greater "good". Things that normal heroes would refuse to accept but which Strange would see differently.
He already did that in World War Hulk.

HaphazardJoy
08-23-2010, 09:13 AM
He already did that in World War Hulk.

Sort of, that's not as extreme as what I was thinking, but yeah, that's a big part of the reason he's no long Sorcerer Supreme in any case.

MattWaterman
08-23-2010, 12:50 PM
In both cases (Reed and Strange), it's a sort of Frankenstein tale: The danger of ego, the whole "road to hell...good intentions" motif. And yeah, they totally work. Tony Stark could be thrown in there as well, though that's more "road to hell" and less "tampering with nature" going on.

Ultimately, it comes down to believabilty. Mick Foley, of all people, was writing about this in his biography, I believe. He said, and I'm paraphrasing, that it doesn't matter if the villains motivations are logical but they have to be believable. Lex Luthor hating Superman because he made him bald is just silly; Dr. Doom being envious of Reed's achievements under the guise of his disfigurement makes a whole lot of sense...

Aidy
08-25-2010, 09:49 AM
The Hulk and Namor always made better bad guys than good guys IMO.

If I had to pick a good guy to switch over to the dark side it would probaby be Iron Fist. Mystical powers and a history in the Orient (including some prison time) would make him an impressive head of the Yakuza or head of Hydra. Throw in bulletproof bodyguard Luke Cage and that's a good start. He could easily be dropped into Kingpin's place in Daredevil, or Doom's in Fantastic Four.

i like your Hulk and Namour comment...old school. Iron Fist would blow as a Fantastic Four villian..Reed would pull his pants down in 5 minutes.

Aidy
08-25-2010, 09:52 AM
Lex Luthor hating Superman because he made him bald is just silly;

indeed, which is why I always prefered Lex as a business man who believes Superman stole Metropolis from him and the affection of his adoring public. I think the reinvention of Lex as a business man under John Bryne was and is a master stroke which gave the character real depth and more life...

ronin7
08-25-2010, 08:37 PM
indeed, which is why I always prefered Lex as a business man who believes Superman stole Metropolis from him and the affection of his adoring public. I think the reinvention of Lex as a business man under John Bryne was and is a master stroke which gave the character real depth and more life...


That's why John Byrne is a HUGE influence on my writing. He writes people stories, stories that have heart, and make you care about the characters.

Aidy
08-27-2010, 04:28 AM
That's why John Byrne is a HUGE influence on my writing. He writes people stories, stories that have heart, and make you care about the characters.

You and I can be friends!
:D

Steven Forbes
08-28-2010, 07:06 AM
Plastic Man.

He could be DC's version of Deadpool.

Something happens to push him over the edge, and bam! you've got a worthy, DANGEROUS villain on your hands.

He knows the secrets and fighting prowess of the Justice League. He's virtually immortal (was that Waid or Morrison?). He would really only need to learn some form of martial art in order to be extremely, extremely dangerous, because his body is a weapon.

Plastic Man would put most people in a hurtlocker.

Plastic Man. That's my vote.

-Steven

HaphazardJoy
08-28-2010, 08:45 AM
Plastic Man.

He could be DC's version of Deadpool.

Wrong thread.

Steven Forbes
08-28-2010, 09:50 AM
Oops!

Now I feel sheepish.

-Steven

HaphazardJoy
08-28-2010, 10:17 PM
Oops!

Now I feel sheepish.

-Steven

Interesting mental image, mahhhhhhhh.

Buckyrig
08-29-2010, 07:53 PM
Plastic Man flipped a coin when he got his powers to decide if he would be a hero or a villain. So that's decision's made, man.

Aidy
09-01-2010, 12:53 PM
Plastic Man flipped a coin when he got his powers to decide if he would be a hero or a villain. So that's decision's made, man.


OLD SCHOOL! :)

Biofungus
09-01-2010, 06:25 PM
Jarvis might make a decent criminal mastermind.

Moonrider
09-01-2010, 08:05 PM
Willy Lumpkin. Come on, aren't you all not the least bit curious how he survived Skrull attacks, time and space distortions, Galactus, old age, the '90s... ?

He is like, the in your face evil bad guy that nobody noticed!

Callen493
09-28-2010, 07:33 PM
The x-men would make great villains. Keep them as they are, they just take their cause to protect mutants too far.

HaphazardJoy
09-28-2010, 11:38 PM
The x-men would make great villains. Keep them as they are, they just take their cause to protect mutants too far.

It's called The Brotherhood.

Callen493
09-29-2010, 12:04 PM
No not the brotherhood the actual x-men.

Biofungus
09-29-2010, 05:28 PM
No not the brotherhood the actual x-men.
He's saying that the idea is already in place, and even if it was the X-men, it would pretty much be identical to how the Brotherhood is portrayed.

Buckyrig
09-30-2010, 12:23 PM
He's saying that the idea is already in place, and even if it was the X-men, it would pretty much be identical to how the Brotherhood is portrayed.

There have also been mutants that have been members of both groups at different points in time.

HaphazardJoy
09-30-2010, 06:34 PM
There have also been mutants that have been members of both groups at different points in time.

Yeah most notably Magneto and Quicksilver of course. Mimic, Havok (sorta), Mystique, Rogue, Sabretooth, Xorn, Juggernaut, Nocturne (sorta), Psylocke (sorta), etc, and Scarlet Witch, though she was never an X-man.

Callen493
10-04-2010, 01:12 PM
It wouldn't be the same because they would be different characters. It would be similar, but it would be interesting to have Cyclops, Storm, Prof X, and Logan on the wrong side of the law.

ronin7
10-04-2010, 04:56 PM
It wouldn't be the same because they would be different characters. It would be similar, but it would be interesting to have Cyclops, Storm, Prof X, and Logan on the wrong side of the law.


Dude, Fraction is already doing that now, and it's no different than writing a Brotherhood Of Evil Mutants ongoing series. Infact, I don't consider Fraction's X-Men - the X-Men I grew up with.

HaphazardJoy
10-04-2010, 05:34 PM
It wouldn't be the same because they would be different characters. It would be similar, but it would be interesting to have Cyclops, Storm, Prof X, and Logan on the wrong side of the law.

Well, Logan has often been on the wrong side of the law, but really that same concept practically already in place in the X-men and not what's important about the Brotherhood whatsoever. When I say it's already in place I mean that most of the time throughout the history of the characters, the X-men are in the place of outlaws in a way. Mostly getting indifference from the authorities, but often being directly opposed as well. Meanwhile, that's not the interesting part about the Brotherhood, the entire point of the Brotherhood is to serve as a counterpoint to the X-men. Serving Magneto's dream, not Xavier's. The Brotherhood is boring as a criminal group, they're interesting in terms of: this is how different and extreme two paths to the same goal can be.

RandallFlagg
10-04-2010, 05:38 PM
I just don't think it would make sense to have the X-Men, especially Xavier, as villains. Xavier and Magneto parted ways specifically because Xavier wanted non-violence. It wouldn't make sense to change his motivation.

Biofungus
10-04-2010, 05:41 PM
You already got Cyke authorizing black ops anyway (plus X-Force to carry them out).

Moonrider
10-04-2010, 09:35 PM
X-Men: Noir actually depict them as villains in that universe. A guild of thieves and sociopaths led by a paraphlegic psychologist. The Brotherhood in a role reversal are portrayed as a secret society that maintain order between the city and organized crime. So yes, that concept has been done before.

omega sentry
11-05-2010, 07:13 PM
I'm not going to read the whole thread so if it hasn't been said....a team of good guys goon wild would be amazing.

I'd go with Iron man, wolvy, jean grey for obvious reasons and the silver surfer. Whom ever else as pawns..... Hasn't this been done before???

HaphazardJoy
11-05-2010, 07:57 PM
I'd go with Iron man, wolvy, jean grey for obvious reasons and the silver surfer.

They've all pretty much already been villains though, or antagonists at least.