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fluxchild
07-19-2010, 03:41 AM
Ok, I was on the DC forums, and on this thread entitled, "Is Damien Wayne the best Robin ever" there are a lot of Damien supporters. I can't stand the prick actually, and it got me to thinking after someone put the thought in my mind that Damien was the vessel for Ra's al Ghul. It makes perfect sense, but I think something far more sinister is at hand. I think he already is Ra's. Let's look at the clues...

Batman 666 is about him as Batman of the future....
Son of the Demon is his conception
His freekin' name is Damien, as in the Omen, and didn't he first appear during the Batman R.I.P. storyline? Which is about Bruce's fight with...The Devil?

I think one of Batman's oldest advesaries is now part of the Bat-Family, and things are really about to get crazy for the team. He has to be Ra's....which I think is a pretty cool twist. I might be late, but I'm fairly new to the storyline as I just got caught up on things.

ronin7
07-19-2010, 07:07 AM
Ok, I was on the DC forums, and on this thread entitled, "Is Damien Wayne the best Robin ever" there are a lot of Damien supporters. I can't stand the prick actually, and it got me to thinking after someone put the thought in my mind that Damien was the vessel for Ra's al Ghul. It makes perfect sense, but I think something far more sinister is at hand. I think he already is Ra's. Let's look at the clues...

Batman 666 is about him as Batman of the future....
Son of the Demon is his conception
His freekin' name is Damien, as in the Omen, and didn't he first appear during the Batman R.I.P. storyline? Which is about Bruce's fight with...The Devil?

I think one of Batman's oldest advesaries is now part of the Bat-Family, and things are really about to get crazy for the team. He has to be Ra's....which I think is a pretty cool twist. I might be late, but I'm fairly new to the storyline as I just got caught up on things.

Ra's is already back inside of the body of his son the Ghost ala the Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghoul. So, it's kind of impossible that he could be Damien when's already back alive swearing vengeance on Batman for the death of his son.

Moonrider
07-19-2010, 08:43 AM
Dick Grayson is still the best Robin ever. Tim Drake came in second. Don't know what Morrison intends to do with Damien, but he was designed to be an annoying prick of a kid.

dmh_3000
07-19-2010, 10:48 AM
Damian was supposed to be his father's son, a rude brat with an entitlement complex and the skills to back this behaviour up. The problem, though, is Batman grew into that character after 70 years. We were used to him. Also, he showed remorse for his behaviour. But this kid was just unlikeable from the start until Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul where other writers managed to bring him down a notch.

Peter Milligan having him lose to Tim in the rematch and even begging him to stop. The Fabian Nicieza having him and Tim captured because Damian's ego made him refuse to follow Dick and Tim's battle plan. But the last chapter was the best, the one done by Paul Dini. Beside his father in the middle of a war zone, Damian nearly falls apart when he realises how close he came to actually dying, like a child would. In all those issues he was no longer Morrison's Marty Stu, he was a kid with battle skill but not enough experience to outshine his predecessors instantly.

Unfortunately, next time we see him, he's outdoing one of the top archers in the world blindfolded, the guy even saying "I've been learning from him." And of course there was this exchange from Batman RIP:

(Damian is driving the Batmobile and just sent an ambulance over the side of a bridge. Its only occupant was the Joker).
Alfred: That was an ambulance Master Damian.
Damian: What was an ambulance? Just be grateful I didn't leave you to burn back in the Batcave, Pennyworth.

So yeah... I like him written by other people. By Morrison? Not so much. Then again I only read the comics when they come out as TPBs (They're too expensive otherwise) and people have been telling me he gets a lot of character development in Batman and Robin, so I might change my mind when I read it.

Moonrider
07-19-2010, 11:02 AM
Sounds to me like Morrison is deliberately making him as despicable as possible, and he did it so well even other writers hate this character. I personally find this funny, because to me Damien's character feels like Morrison's way of mocking Frank Miller's 'Goddamn Batman'. :laugh:

ronin7
07-19-2010, 11:39 AM
Damian was supposed to be his father's son, a rude brat with an entitlement complex and the skills to back this behaviour up. The problem, though, is Batman grew into that character after 70 years. We were used to him. Also, he showed remorse for his behaviour. But this kid was just unlikeable from the start until Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul where other writers managed to bring him down a notch.

Peter Milligan having him lose to Tim in the rematch and even begging him to stop. The Fabian Nicieza having him and Tim captured because Damian's ego made him refuse to follow Dick and Tim's battle plan. But the last chapter was the best, the one done by Paul Dini. Beside his father in the middle of a war zone, Damian nearly falls apart when he realises how close he came to actually dying, like a child would. In all those issues he was no longer Morrison's Marty Stu, he was a kid with battle skill but not enough experience to outshine his predecessors instantly.

Unfortunately, next time we see him, he's outdoing one of the top archers in the world blindfolded, the guy even saying "I've been learning from him." And of course there was this exchange from Batman RIP:

(Damian is driving the Batmobile and just sent an ambulance over the side of a bridge. Its only occupant was the Joker).
Alfred: That was an ambulance Master Damian.
Damian: What was an ambulance? Just be grateful I didn't leave you to burn back in the Batcave, Pennyworth.

So yeah... I like him written by other people. By Morrison? Not so much. Then again I only read the comics when they come out as TPBs (They're too expensive otherwise) and people have been telling me he gets a lot of character development in Batman and Robin, so I might change my mind when I read it.

Damien doesn't get any better in Batman and Robin DMH. He's actually the same Marty Stu that Morrison wrote in the Batman self-titled book.

Moonrider
07-19-2010, 12:17 PM
Damien doesn't get any better in Batman and Robin DMH. He's actually the same Marty Stu that Morrison wrote in the Batman self-titled book.

I dunno, I think he showed more conscience in the Red Hood arc and in the words he said when he confronted his mother a few issues back. But after that he went right back to being an ass. :laugh:

Mark Bertolini
07-19-2010, 03:29 PM
Sounds to me like Morrison is deliberately making him as despicable as possible, and he did it so well even other writers hate this character. I personally find this funny, because to me Damien's character feels like Morrison's way of mocking Frank Miller's 'Goddamn Batman'. :laugh:


I agree!

I like Damien. He's a prick, but he's got the goods, and I like how he's portrayed in Morrison's B&R. I like how Dick has to constantly (constantly) be on his ass.

Paul Sanderson
07-19-2010, 07:17 PM
He's being presented as a prick now so that when he finally does come good, the progression of the character will be much more interesting and intense as we go along for the ride.

ronin7
07-19-2010, 07:26 PM
He's being presented as a prick now so that when he finally does come good, the progression of the character will be much more interesting and intense as we go along for the ride.

Hopefully, he'll bite the dust before that happens. He is worse than Jason Whine Todd.

Lovecraft13
07-19-2010, 07:55 PM
I like Morrison's Damien. I don't know if he'll have the same charm under someone else's direction.

Paul Sanderson
07-19-2010, 08:27 PM
Hopefully, he'll bite the dust before that happens. He is worse than Jason Whine Todd.

Anything's possible. Bruce will whip him into shape once he returns.

dmh_3000
07-20-2010, 12:02 AM
Anything's possible. Bruce will whip him into shape once he returns.
I hope Bruce smacks him if he keeps up his behaviour. Just once. I've been waiting for it since Batman and Son (And my favourite Red Robin moment has been when Tim smacked Damian in issue one because he was being an ass).

Mark Bertolini
07-22-2010, 01:56 PM
I really like how every time Dick says something to the effect of "I'm not sure I can be Batman", Damien's like "Fine, good, take off the costume and give it to me."

The kid's not wasting any time.

ronin7
07-22-2010, 03:39 PM
The kid's not good enough to be Batman, and Dick has already proven he can be a good stand-in Batman. What bothers me is putting him in a role that wasn't built for him, and having him whine all the time that he's not good enough so Damien can say: "Good, hand it over."

I read the first book, and there were so many characterization errors, and erronous mistakes on Dick's skills that only cement that Morrison has never read a Batman comic before. Like for example, Dick needing silicon sound absorbing boots to be stealth-like.

Aaron Wilder
07-22-2010, 04:30 PM
I read the first book, and there were so many characterization errors, and erronous mistakes on Dick's skills that only cement that Morrison has never read a Batman comic before. Like for example, Dick needing silicon sound absorbing boots to be stealth-like.

It's a lot easier to be stealthy in the Nightwing costume than the Batman costume. No knock on DG, but there's a lot more crap built into the batsuit.

It's the difference between sneaking up on someone while wearing socks or sneaking up on someone while wearing socks, a cape, carrying 30 pounds of random stuff strapped to your body, and wearing a full head mask. If you're used to the first, it makes the second harder. It's a muscle memory thing.