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Mwynn
06-15-2010, 11:19 PM
A five part spider-odyssey begins in ORIGIN OF THE SPECIES!
With Peter Parkerís ONE MOMENT IN TIME behind him and Mary Jane back in his life, Spidey finds himself ready for a new start...but the various threads of his life since his BRAND NEW DAY are about to crash together violently.

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/marvel-september-2010-solicitations.html

Paul Sanderson
06-17-2010, 03:47 AM
A five part spider-odyssey begins in ORIGIN OF THE SPECIES!
With Peter Parkerís ONE MOMENT IN TIME behind him and Mary Jane back in his life, Spidey finds himself ready for a new start...but the various threads of his life since his BRAND NEW DAY are about to crash together violently.

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/marvel-september-2010-solicitations.html

Mary Jane is back? As Peter's wife??

Biofungus
06-17-2010, 04:37 AM
Mary Jane is back? As Peter's wife??
I don't think as his wife, just his friend/girlfriend. I will say, that multipart cover looks to be shaping up something nice.

Moonrider
06-17-2010, 09:29 AM
I've lost all hopes on Spidey books. He's annoying on The Avengers (whichever team he's in), and nothing on BND interest me. Mary Jane's back, whoop-de-doo, didn't see the point in removing her from the supporting cast in the first place anyway.

ronin7
06-17-2010, 11:15 AM
I agree BND sucks. But, don't hate on Avengers.

Biofungus
06-17-2010, 04:14 PM
He's hating Spidey IN the Avengers. There's a difference :)

ronin7
06-17-2010, 05:12 PM
Not much of one.

HaphazardJoy
06-17-2010, 08:41 PM
:rolleyes:
Right, disliking one of nearly a dozen characters in a book equals talking bad about the book. I'm growing to lose any regard for your opinion.

Moonrider
06-18-2010, 12:42 AM
Not much of one.

Nope, I like The Avengers. When Spidey's not in it.

ronin7
06-18-2010, 07:14 AM
Nope, I like The Avengers. When Spidey's not in it.


Spidey belongs in the Avengers. That's all I will say.

HaphazardJoy
06-18-2010, 09:31 AM
Spidey works on the New Avengers, but otherwise he makes no sense on an Avengers team. When they shoehorn him into epic events and cosmic stories, I just want to roll my eyes.

WilliamStormeSmith
06-18-2010, 10:05 AM
SHED is an awesome storyline.

Moonrider
06-18-2010, 12:58 PM
Spidey works on the New Avengers, but otherwise he makes no sense on an Avengers team. When they shoehorn him into epic events and cosmic stories, I just want to roll my eyes.

What he said. Also, sodomy.

ronin7
06-18-2010, 08:58 PM
Spidey works on the New Avengers, but otherwise he makes no sense on an Avengers team. When they shoehorn him into epic events and cosmic stories, I just want to roll my eyes.


Like Spidey hasn't been in cosmic stories before against Firelord, in the Secret Wars, etc? This is nothing new. He's a big leaguer and should be treated like one. Not a door mat who whines about his lot in life with no job and no girlfriend.

Biofungus
06-18-2010, 09:34 PM
Again, him being in a cosmic story (and Firelord by himself does not a cosmic story make) is different from Spidey being shoehorned into one.

Spider-Man is the epitome of your "every man" super heroes. They *belong* on the street. That's part of his relate-ability, one of the reasons he's been so popular. When his stories start getting "cosmic" or "mystical" it takes away from his appeal (even when he had the Captain Universe power, he wasn't going global, he was still fighting things on a local level).

HaphazardJoy
06-18-2010, 10:45 PM
Like Spidey hasn't been in cosmic stories before against Firelord, in the Secret Wars, etc?

Yes, he has been, and it sucked.

Moonrider
06-18-2010, 11:23 PM
Even in New Avengers, Spidey basically just there to fill the role of Murdock for Luke Cage's B.A Barracus. One can't help thinking about comparisons because heck, New Avengers in concept can be summarized aptly as The A Team with superpowers. Peter Parker is a smart guy, maybe not Amadeus Cho kind of smart but he used to be a science teacher. You would have think that he contribute more to the team than sitting in the back of the jet cracking nerd jokes. That's why I called him annoying.

As for shoehorning him in cosmic stories, well... you just can't web swing in space.

tbrotomo
06-19-2010, 01:46 AM
Brand New Day bringing back Harry Osborne and removing any consequences from civil war onto Peter, while erasing his marriage caused the book to mean there's no real danger or possibility of change to the status quo that's permanent. Until they realize that we want our characters to progress, that's going to remain the same.

I laughed a little when i saw the solicit for the issue in the OP, but I doubt that means they're bringing the marriage back. They're fare too adamant about their decision to listen to readers, sales or constant internet whining.

So brand new day has been lousy form that regard, and the writers are forced into a box where they have to make stories that don't really have a lasting impact but are still good. That's hard to do.

I think someone mentioned shed being good before, and I really enjoyed it as well. It was a pretty cool concept, and the art was really different so it felt really interesting. Which goes to show what they have to do: not really deal with peter out of costume or develop his life so they don't remind us we're in Brand New Day Universe.

I'm enjoying Grim Hunt as well, on that level.

In terms of the Avengers. They've made Spider-Man into just a comic relief dumb jokes at awkward times character. That's all he does in the book. Makes it hard to like him.

ronin7
06-19-2010, 06:19 AM
Again, him being in a cosmic story (and Firelord by himself does not a cosmic story make) is different from Spidey being shoehorned into one.

Spider-Man is the epitome of your "every man" super heroes. They *belong* on the street. That's part of his relate-ability, one of the reasons he's been so popular. When his stories start getting "cosmic" or "mystical" it takes away from his appeal (even when he had the Captain Universe power, he wasn't going global, he was still fighting things on a local level).


Fighting Firelord isn't cosmic? The guy is a herald who should have roasted Spider-Man. Spider-Man is an everyman, yes, but he remains popular because he's every kid's wish fullfilment. He does what's right, and he is responsible role model. The aging fanbase is the only one who thinks he should remain a loser with constant girl troubles, and broke all the time.

You and I are just going to have to disagree. Because we obviously view Spider-Man differently.

ronin7
06-19-2010, 06:25 AM
Brand New Day bringing back Harry Osborne and removing any consequences from civil war onto Peter, while erasing his marriage caused the book to mean there's no real danger or possibility of change to the status quo that's permanent. Until they realize that we want our characters to progress, that's going to remain the same.

I laughed a little when i saw the solicit for the issue in the OP, but I doubt that means they're bringing the marriage back. They're fare too adamant about their decision to listen to readers, sales or constant internet whining.

So brand new day has been lousy form that regard, and the writers are forced into a box where they have to make stories that don't really have a lasting impact but are still good. That's hard to do.

I think someone mentioned shed being good before, and I really enjoyed it as well. It was a pretty cool concept, and the art was really different so it felt really interesting. Which goes to show what they have to do: not really deal with peter out of costume or develop his life so they don't remind us we're in Brand New Day Universe.

I'm enjoying Grim Hunt as well, on that level.

In terms of the Avengers. They've made Spider-Man into just a comic relief dumb jokes at awkward times character. That's all he does in the book. Makes it hard to like him.


Spidey's the one who helped the team figure out who created the break in at the Raft, helped beat down Wrecker, saved Jessica's baby, took on the Pro-Registration Heroes because he realized he was wrong, fought with SHIELD to protect the information about the House Of M event, battled the Savage Land Mutates, and has constantly provided aid whenever possible. Witty banter is Spider-Man's defense mechanism against the fear of going against dangerous threats and possibly losing his life. That is how he stays focused, and rattles his enemies.

What you are complaining about is a character trait that has been persistant since the invention of the character.

HaphazardJoy
06-19-2010, 09:06 AM
What you are complaining about is a character trait that has
been persistant since the invention of the character.

I'm pretty sure what he was complaining about was the fact that that's ALL Spidey does in the book. Every single thing you point out that he did is all just blank plot points, it could have been any of the characters. There's no reason it had to be Spidey. Generally speaking, anything Spidey can do, someone else can do better, which is part of the reason why putting characters like him on the Avengers makes little sense to me. When you have an Iron Man, you don't need a Spider-man or a Luke Cage. Hawkeye doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense as an Avenger given power levels, etc, but it's worse in the case of a Spidey or a Luke Cage because they're characters that are very well suited to telling stories on a more local level. Having Spider-man dealing with cosmic, or even global, events is like having Thor saving kittens from trees. Characters should absolutely be allowed to progress and be tested, but by the time you're giving a street-level hero cosmic powers, or having him in a book where he's so out powered and out-smarted that he's reduced to one-liners as his sole purpose, then you're making a joke out of the character and the fans.

ronin7
06-19-2010, 09:29 AM
I'm pretty sure what he was complaining about was the fact that that's ALL Spidey does in the book. Every single thing you point out that he did is all just blank plot points, it could have been any of the characters. There's no reason it had to be Spidey. Generally speaking, anything Spidey can do, someone else can do better, which is part of the reason why putting characters like him on the Avengers makes little sense to me. When you have an Iron Man, you don't need a Spider-man or a Luke Cage. Hawkeye doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense as an Avenger given power levels, etc, but it's worse in the case of a Spidey or a Luke Cage because they're characters that are very well suited to telling stories on a more local level. Having Spider-man dealing with cosmic, or even global, events is like having Thor saving kittens from trees. Characters should absolutely be allowed to progress and be tested, but by the time you're giving a street-level hero cosmic powers, or having him in a book where he's so out powered and out-smarted that he's reduced to one-liners as his sole purpose, then you're making a joke out of the character and the fans.


It's not about power levels. If it was, comics would be nothing but power levels and high end feats. It's all about story. I don't think you get that. I think you are thinking with a clear fan bias.

HaphazardJoy
06-19-2010, 09:48 AM
It's not about power levels. If it was, comics would be nothing but power levels and high end feats. It's all about story. I don't think you get that. I think you are thinking with a clear fan bias.

::snicker::
What the hell are you talking about?

RandallFlagg
06-19-2010, 08:02 PM
::snicker::
What the hell are you talking about?
I think what he means is this:

If you don't want to put Hawkeye, Luke Cage, or Spider-Man on the Avengers because of the fact that there are more powerful people, then why isn't the Avengers just comprised of the single most powerful heroes? Why put Captain America on there? Anything he can do, Spider-Man can do better. Why not just have the team be Thor, Iron Man, Wonder Man, Vision, Hulk, Doctor Strange, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, and She-Hulk? There's not any threat this team would really have to worry about. There's hardly any heroes more powerful than them.

HaphazardJoy
06-19-2010, 09:00 PM
I think what he means is this:

If you don't want to put Hawkeye, Luke Cage, or Spider-Man on the Avengers because of the fact that there are more powerful people, then why isn't the Avengers just comprised of the single most powerful heroes? Why put Captain America on there? Anything he can do, Spider-Man can do better. Why not just have the team be Thor, Iron Man, Wonder Man, Vision, Hulk, Doctor Strange, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, and She-Hulk? There's not any threat this team would really have to worry about. There's hardly any heroes more powerful than them.

Firstly, power level wasn't the brunt of my argument. Fact is that Luke Cage and Spider-man are characters who were designed as local-level heroes. My point WAS story, and the kind of stories which suit different characters, which renders Ronin's comments beyond moronic. Further, Spider-man can't do a lot of things better than Cap, first and foremost: LEAD. Everyone knows and respects Captain America.

ronin7
06-19-2010, 09:07 PM
Firstly, power level wasn't the brunt of my argument. Fact is that Luke Cage and Spider-man are characters who were designed as local-level heroes. My point WAS story, and the kind of stories which suit different characters, which renders Ronin's comments beyond moronic. Further, Spider-man can't do a lot of things better than Cap, first and foremost: LEAD. Everyone knows and respects Captain America.

That's your opinion, and doesn't hold any water over any one else's opinion who thinks otherwise including mine. So, stop arguing as you have said the absolute truth. You are making yourself look like an ignorant clown.

RandallFlagg
06-19-2010, 09:08 PM
Firstly, power level wasn't the brunt of my argument. Fact is that Luke Cage and Spider-man are characters who were designed as local-level heroes. My point WAS story, and the kind of stories which suit different characters, which renders Ronin's comments beyond moronic. Further, Spider-man can't do a lot of things better than Cap, first and foremost: LEAD. Everyone knows and respects Captain America.
Hey, just trying to make his argument clearer. I agree with you somewhat. I do think there is room on the team for Spider-man though.

Also, with the Cap comment, I meant physically.

I was just playing devil's advocate. :laugh:

HaphazardJoy
06-19-2010, 09:27 PM
That's your opinion, and doesn't hold any water over any one else's opinion who thinks otherwise including mine. So, stop arguing as you have said the absolute truth. You are making yourself look like an ignorant clown.

I clarified my own argument, and then pointed out that you were making dimwitted comments about me not "getting" that it's about story, when my entire argument was that those characters were designed as local-level heroes and were best suited to local-level stories. I guess that makes me an ignorant clown.

Biofungus
06-19-2010, 11:59 PM
Fighting Firelord isn't cosmic? The guy is a herald who should have roasted Spider-Man. Spider-Man is an everyman, yes, but he remains popular because he's every kid's wish fullfilment. He does what's right, and he is responsible role model. The aging fanbase is the only one who thinks he should remain a loser with constant girl troubles, and broke all the time.

You and I are just going to have to disagree. Because we obviously view Spider-Man differently.
If Spider-Man's in space fighting Firelord, it's cosmic. If Firelord is down on earth for some reason and gets into a tussle with Spidey, that's not cosmic.

Moonrider
06-21-2010, 07:59 AM
If Spider-Man's in space fighting Firelord, it's cosmic. If Firelord is down on earth for some reason and gets into a tussle with Spidey, that's not cosmic.

Nope, that's just comics. ;)

When it comes to telling stories, though I'm far from being an expert, I know that there are plot driven stories and character driven stories. Spidey's induction to the Avengers made sense to the plot, because he was involved in The Raft breakout and then the Superhuman Registration Act. But as a character, his involvement in the team never grew beyond the role of a simple comic relief that does something useful every now and then. Much moreso after BND, since his initial reason for staying with the New Avengers was because he got screwed by Tony into revealing his secret identity, now that he has sih secret identity back and retconned, it really doesn't make much sense.

ronin7
06-21-2010, 05:40 PM
Nope, that's just comics. ;)

When it comes to telling stories, though I'm far from being an expert, I know that there are plot driven stories and character driven stories. Spidey's induction to the Avengers made sense to the plot, because he was involved in The Raft breakout and then the Superhuman Registration Act. But as a character, his involvement in the team never grew beyond the role of a simple comic relief that does something useful every now and then. Much moreso after BND, since his initial reason for staying with the New Avengers was because he got screwed by Tony into revealing his secret identity, now that he has sih secret identity back and retconned, it really doesn't make much sense.


So preventing some one like one of his enemies like Osborn from getting control of the country isn't a reason to stick around with the Avengers? :blink:

HaphazardJoy
06-21-2010, 05:57 PM
So preventing some one like one of his enemies like Osborn from getting control of the country isn't a reason to stick around with the Avengers? :blink:

That's a fair point, but the New Avengers really weren't making any headway and there's no reason Spider-man couldn't have fought back against Osborn on his own.

Mwynn
06-21-2010, 06:19 PM
That's a fair point, but the New Avengers really weren't making any headway and there's no reason Spider-man couldn't have fought back against Osborn on his own.
Which he did in his own title.

ronin7
06-21-2010, 08:20 PM
That's a fair point, but the New Avengers really weren't making any headway and there's no reason Spider-man couldn't have fought back against Osborn on his own.


:blink: The New Avengers weren't making any headway? Dude, the Hood's syndicate came damn close to wiping out the heroes, and toppling those in power. You had guys like Wizard, the Wrecking Crew, etc on his team. Even the Answer who could do anything to solve a problem. And the New Avengers were twiddling their thumbs?

*shakes head*

HaphazardJoy
06-21-2010, 10:05 PM
:blink: The New Avengers weren't making any headway? Dude, the Hood's syndicate came damn close to wiping out the heroes, and toppling those in power. You had guys like Wizard, the Wrecking Crew, etc on his team. Even the Answer who could do anything to solve a problem. And the New Avengers were twiddling their thumbs?

*shakes head*

Yeah, exactly, they were twiddling their thumbs.
They achieved nothing overall. They spent the entire arc spatting back and forth with the Hood's crew. The story is meaningless in the long run, it was filler until Siege. It wasn't a BAD story, I'm not saying that, but let's not kid ourselves here, it wasn't a pivotal story in any way.