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Ian Ascher
05-23-2010, 06:00 PM
I'll start the thread no one else wants to.

It's out. Ive read it. I liked it.

It's Bendis. It's Romita Jr. It's Avengers. It's everything you're probably thinking, good and bad.

Anyone else pick it up?



(Plus our very own Kel is in it... so there...)

ronin7
05-23-2010, 07:04 PM
Trade waiting it.

-Mick

Rob Norton
05-23-2010, 09:02 PM
i got it. i enjoyed it. i hope it can maintain my interest for the long term though. i have been reading avengers since bendis took over and have enjoyed every minute.

and i get what they are trying to do now... to get past the dark stories that have been to prevalent in recent times.. make things more bright and hopeful in terms of the outlook. but im just worried it could water down the drama by making the threats not very interesting...or worse case, stuff we have seen a million times over in the avengers. i know there are some people that want to get back to the classic avengers style of book and this looks like the step in the direction they have been waiting for.
but this new issue kinda read to me like an ALMOST rehash of stories from the 80's/90's. "hey..the avengers just had a big fight but they are regrouping and starting a whole new lineup and man are they cool!!!"

i dont know. im giving it a fair shake though. bendis hasnt let me down yet. im more excited for the secret avengers with Deodato drawing and the new avengers(?) drawn by stewart immonen. those should be awesome. i hope.

rob

Troy Wall
05-23-2010, 10:03 PM
It'll probably shape up to be a good story. I think a lot of people were caught off guard with Bendis using a bit of lore from a direct to DVD Marvel animated feature.

Rob Norton
05-23-2010, 10:19 PM
It'll probably shape up to be a good story. I think a lot of people were caught off guard with Bendis using a bit of lore from a direct to DVD Marvel animated feature.


oh yea... i was going to ask about that. i never did watch the 3rd animated avengers flick seeing as how i was SO disapointed with the first one... but i thought those kids looked like the ones in that cartoon. was that who they were supposed to be..kind of?

rob

zcotty
05-24-2010, 01:20 AM
I've been out of the loop for a while. I know Bendis took over, I've read some of his New Avengers, I know SOME stuff from the dark period (just from various conversations)

So...

Would this be a good jumping on point?


.

ponyrl
05-24-2010, 02:15 AM
bought it (for jrjr).

read it.

thoughts.

Meh.

Let's put roger stern on it. His spider man issues were solid.

Troy Wall
05-24-2010, 05:30 PM
oh yea... i was going to ask about that. i never did watch the 3rd animated avengers flick seeing as how i was SO disapointed with the first one... but i thought those kids looked like the ones in that cartoon. was that who they were supposed to be..kind of?

rob


Yep.

PC812
05-27-2010, 04:33 AM
If you're a long-time Avengers fan and have been expecting a return to greatness after just about everything since Disassembled then do not buy Avengers #1. Your money is better spent on Secret Avengers #1 -- now THAT'S an Avengers book.

HaphazardJoy
05-27-2010, 05:05 AM
I've only been picking up my books every other week to save gas money (since I've moved, my shop of choice is 30 miles away, there's one much closer but I've been going to my shop for nine years now). So I just read this book today.

First off, let me say that the art is pretty good. I love JRjr on certain books, I adore his Spider-man work especially. I don't love his work here though. Similar to how I love Frank Quitely's work, but didn't care for his X-men art. Story/writing-wise, I'm a little unsure about this. What's worse is that Thunderbolts and Secret Avengers left me a little unsure too. Avengers could be awesome or it could be just not for me, we'll have to see, #1 provided no answers. I was enjoying the Hank Pym lead Mighty Avengers despite being a bit cold on it the first couple of issues, so I'll reserve judgement. That being said, the dialogue felt forced and poor at a couple of points (especially the exchange between Steve and Tony), and the story idea just seems hackneyed and goofy. The lead villain is cute as an echo of the original Avengers origin, but time travel and future children and blah blah blah, come on. I really like it when they keep X-men continuity fairly self-contained, but it does seem a little silly to say time travel is near-impossible and generally a bad idea when it's a common element of dozens of X-men arcs, including the current one. You'd think Wolverine would just go: yeah, I just got back a future where Stryfe ruled, we can go for it if you want.

Plus, while I'm not super familiar with Wonder Man, I don't get where his involvement is coming from. I thought it was odd that he wouldn't be on a team with Beast considering their previous camaraderie and this teased turn just seems out of place.

I'm very much happy for a break from status quo, but Heroic Age isn't resonating with me so far. I'm torn between wanting them to kick ass and being happy to cut my reading back to X-books and saving the cash.

jeffers
05-27-2010, 11:34 AM
I liked it. Bendis dialogue aside (not every panel needs to read like "The West Wing"), I appreciate how far he's come in his super-hero writing. I couldn't imagine him writing Kang or a concept like the "doomsday egg" with such aplomb five years ago. It would have been a murder mystery or some long con or something else we've seen in "Powers." So Kudos from me, BMB. Nice job.

I'll say this and let the barrage begin (and again, just my opinion): I've never liked JRJR's work. Never.

Great storyteller. His action and pacing are above reproach. And very few artists can give you a double-truck spread with as much detail as he does. He and Hitch are the masters of widespread destruction.

But his actual style? I'm not a fan. The excessive lines, the eyes, the background work. Sometimes, I'll look at a character standing in the background for five minutes and, unless they're wearing a mask, I'll have no clue who it is. Yeah, Larsen does the same thing, but he has such a heavy pencil style anyway that you kinda expect it.

That doesn't mean I won't buy a JRJR book. At least I'll know what happens. I just may not know who every character on the page is.

jeffers
05-27-2010, 11:36 AM
It'll probably shape up to be a good story. I think a lot of people were caught off guard with Bendis using a bit of lore from a direct to DVD Marvel animated feature.


Yeah, I was a little thrown off by that, but hey, infinite futures y'all.

Gotta love that multiverse!

ronin7
05-27-2010, 01:35 PM
I liked it. Bendis dialogue aside (not every panel needs to read like "The West Wing"), I appreciate how far he's come in his super-hero writing. I couldn't imagine him writing Kang or a concept like the "doomsday egg" with such aplomb five years ago. It would have been a murder mystery or some long con or something else we've seen in "Powers." So Kudos from me, BMB. Nice job.

I'll say this and let the barrage begin (and again, just my opinion): I've never liked JRJR's work. Never.

Great storyteller. His action and pacing are above reproach. And very few artists can give you a double-truck spread with as much detail as he does. He and Hitch are the masters of widespread destruction.

But his actual style? I'm not a fan. The excessive lines, the eyes, the background work. Sometimes, I'll look at a character standing in the background for five minutes and, unless they're wearing a mask, I'll have no clue who it is. Yeah, Larsen does the same thing, but he has such a heavy pencil style anyway that you kinda expect it.

That doesn't mean I won't buy a JRJR book. At least I'll know what happens. I just may not know who every character on the page is.


I will say it for the umpteenth time, there is nothing wrong with Bendis' dialogue. Pay attention when people speak to you and you will notice they stammer, stutter, and/or repeat themselves whether they are nervous speakers, or whatever. I live in Akron, I've been around people from all over. I know that Bendis style is accurate.

-Mick

HaphazardJoy
05-27-2010, 06:53 PM
I will say it for the umpteenth time, there is nothing wrong with Bendis' dialogue. Pay attention when people speak to you and you will notice they stammer, stutter, and/or repeat themselves whether they are nervous speakers, or whatever. I live in Akron, I've been around people from all over. I know that Bendis style is accurate.

-Mick

Yes, people don't speak perfectly, they stutter and interject and repeat themselves, but that's a technique that needs to be used sparingly in writing and on screen. Accuracy =/= quality in this regard.

That being said, I never got what the issue was with Bendis. I don't think this issue was his finest, but I don't mind my heroes having more actual spoken words versus *ka-pows* on a given page.

Paul Sanderson
05-27-2010, 07:01 PM
If they can get back to classic Avengers-stories, then I'll be back. Been an on-off (off in recent years during the crap storylines) reader of the series since the early 80s.

jeffers
05-27-2010, 08:09 PM
I will say it for the umpteenth time, there is nothing wrong with Bendis' dialogue. Pay attention when people speak to you and you will notice they stammer, stutter, and/or repeat themselves whether they are nervous speakers, or whatever. I live in Akron, I've been around people from all over. I know that Bendis style is accurate.

-Mick

I didn't say it was inaccurate. I said it was unnecessary. If I want constant banter, I'll watch "Friday Night Lights" or "The West Wing," which I AM a fan of. Actually, I enjoyed Bendis' dialogue work on MTV's "Spider Man" series. I even like it in USM.

But an average of 5-6 lines per panel in a 22 page first issue (even with double trucks) is a bit excessive in my opinion. Doesn't mean it's bad, it just means there's a lot of talking and it drags the pace down.

So how 'bout this? I'll pay attention to what people say and you pay attention to what you read, okay? Thanks.

PC812
05-29-2010, 01:44 AM
I will say it for the umpteenth time, there is nothing wrong with Bendis' dialogue. Pay attention when people speak to you and you will notice they stammer, stutter, and/or repeat themselves whether they are nervous speakers, or whatever. I live in Akron, I've been around people from all over. I know that Bendis style is accurate.
Yes, people in real life stammer, stutter and repeat themselves. But that's not how you write good dialogue. Good dialogue isn't just throwing in "umm" every few words. Good dialogue is supposed to convey what the character is like. I don't get that from Bendis' dialogue, because they all sound exactly the same (with the exception of Spider-Man, who's just an overly annoying version of everyone else). If you redrew the tails on the word balloons, the story would read exactly the same without any confusion.

That's not good dialogue. And dialogue should not be the only thing in a story. Especially a superhero story that people are throwing down $3-4. It's a waste of money.

Check out some stuff by David Mamet or Elmore Leonard. Now THOSE are true masters of dialogue.

Biofungus
07-04-2010, 03:09 AM
I used to like JRjr, but I have to be honest, in the last few years, his style just really grates on me...

zcotty
07-04-2010, 05:01 AM
I used to like JRjr, but I have to be honest, in the last few years, his style just really grates on me...

This is something that's bothering me too. I used to be a HUGE fan of JRJR, but lately...

Cap's "just out of college" look was kind of freaky. :confused:



.

ronin7
07-04-2010, 08:54 AM
Are you guys kidding me? JRJR is the best! He's up there with Byrne, Ditko, and Kirby as a true master artist.

HaphazardJoy
07-04-2010, 08:57 AM
The dialogue and the concept into issue 2 are leaving me a bit dry. So far, out of all the new Avengers books (and Thunderbolts), only Avengers Academy has got me hooked.

Paul Sanderson
07-04-2010, 07:30 PM
This is something that's bothering me too. I used to be a HUGE fan of JRJR, but lately...

Cap's "just out of college" look was kind of freaky. :confused:



.

I preferred his early-to-mid 80s stuff on Spider-Man. His style then was stronger IMO.

Troy Wall
07-04-2010, 08:25 PM
I preferred his early-to-mid 80s stuff on Spider-Man. His style then was stronger IMO.

Yup, his early 1980's work on ASM is in my opinion some of his finest work. Classic character designs in that run, like the original Hobgoblin.

Paul Sanderson
07-04-2010, 09:23 PM
Yup, his early 1980's work on ASM is in my opinion some of his finest work. Classic character designs in that run, like the original Hobgoblin.

Oh yeah. Some brilliant work (great stories/writing ofthen then too). I often look back at those old issues with extreme fondness.

zcotty
07-05-2010, 03:52 AM
I agree that his early 90's stuff was much better. I'm not sure if it's because my taste has changed or what. I still love his lay-outs though.

I don't hate his present stuff, but something is missing.


.

HaphazardJoy
07-28-2010, 07:49 PM
Kang- Avengers, you need to come back with me!
Avengers- Where?
Kang- Back to the Future!
Avengers- What, do we become assholes or something?
Kang- No no no, you turn out fine, it's your kids Avengers, something has got to be done about your kids!

Nick Kerklaan
07-29-2010, 12:50 AM
I will say it for the umpteenth time, there is nothing wrong with Bendis' dialogue. Pay attention when people speak to you and you will notice they stammer, stutter, and/or repeat themselves whether they are nervous speakers, or whatever. I live in Akron, I've been around people from all over. I know that Bendis style is accurate.

-Mick
Bendis is the poor man's Mamet. His dialogue is perfectly serviceable for certain things, even really good in places, but I dunno how I feel about Avengers reading like Glengarry Glen Ross. Watching him cram twice as many speech balloons as I thought possible onto a page was fun when I read Alias, but if that's the only thing he's got in his toolbox that makes him pretty limited at dialogue compared to a lot of other writers.

And I'm with what others have said in that "realistic" or "accurate" does not automatically equate to good. Even if more people knew how to do it well (which most writers don't), if everyone wrote like Mamet I'd have to stop reading entirely.