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View Full Version : Marvel apologizes for Capt. America "Tea Party"


Allegory Comics
02-12-2010, 01:07 PM
Great! Now political extremists are ruining our comics!
Since 1941, Captain America has been one of the most popular comic book characters around. The fictional super-patriot fought Nazis during World War II, took on those who burned the American flag during the Vietnam era, and raked in hundreds of millions of dollars for Marvel Comics along the way. Now, the appearance that he is taking on the Tea Party Movement in a storyline about investigating white supremacists has forced Marvel to apologize for the comic hero.
Issue 602 of the comic features Captain America investigating a right-wing anti-government militia group called "the Watchdogs". Hoping to infiltrate the group, Captain America and his African-American sidekick The Falcon observe an anti-tax protest from a rooftop. The protestors depicted are all white and carry signs adorned with slogans almost identical to those seen today in Tea Party rallies like "tea bag libs before they tea bag you" and "stop the socialists."
The Falcon mentions that the gathering appears to be "some kind of anti-tax protest" and notes that "this whole 'hate the government' vibe isn't limited to the Watchdogs." He then tells Captain America that he doesn't think their plan will work because "I don't exactly see a black man from Harlem fitting in with a bunch of angry white folks." Captain America then explains that his plan entails sending The Falcon in among the group posing as an IRS agent under the thinking that a black government official will most certainly spark their anger.
The clear implicit attack on the Tea Party Movement was first noticed by Publius' Forum's Warner Todd Huston. When a minor uproar ensued, Marvel Comics editor-in-chief Joe Quesada spoke to Comic Book Resources and defended the issue while apologizing for the panel that seemed to tie real-life Tea Party protesters to the fictional group depicted in the book.
Saying that he could "absolutely see how some people are upset about this," Quesada said that there was "zero discussion to include a group that looked like a Tea Party demonstration," adding, "There was no thought that it represented a particular group."
Quesada then went on to say that Marvel would "apologize for and own up to" a series of "stupid mistakes" that led to them "accidentally identifying" one of the members of the protest group "as being a part of the Tea Party instead of a generic protest group." He explained that they were on deadline to get the issue to the printer for publication, and in the course of sending it off it was noticed that the signs in the scene contained no words or phrases. He said the editor then asked the letterer to "fudge in some quick signs" and that in the "rush to get the book out of the door," the letterer "looked on the net and started pulling slogans" from signs captured in photographs at Tea Party protests in order to make them appear "believable."
In response to Marvel's explanation and apology, Tea Party Nation founder Judson Phillips told Yahoo! News that it "sounds less like a genuine 'we're sorry' than it does a 'we're sorry we got caught' statement."
"When I was a child in the '60s Captain America was my favorite superhero," he said. "It's really sad to see what has traditionally been a pro-America figure being used to advance a political agenda."
Ed Brubaker, the writer of the controversial Captain America story, told Fox News that any and all references to "tea bag" will be removed from all future editions of Marvel Comics.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20100211/ts_ynews/ynews_ts1129

zcotty
02-12-2010, 01:23 PM
This is another "SHEESH!! :rolleyes: " moments of people making a mountain out of a molehill.


.

Newt
02-12-2010, 01:36 PM
It's inevitable that they would respond in this way, though; it is central to the TEA partiers' psyche that they are an embattled and oppressed, but righteous, minority. Therefore, anything that can be taken as a slight against them is just more evidence of Big Brother trying to keep them down.

I understand that companies like Marvel and Disney try to be as inoffensive and conciliatory as possible, but I would have loved it if Quesada had just told them to suck it up.

Allegory Comics
02-12-2010, 02:08 PM
Here's what I don't get ...

From what I infer from reading this article, the comic portrayed the Tea Party as an organized group of right-wingers who don't trust our government, oppose our tax system and organize at rallies with crazy signs. The comic even used ACTUAL LANGUAGE from one of their own signs.

So ... in what way does the "party" think they have been misrepresented? I mean, that's all true and a fairly accurate, if not verbatim, description of themselves.

I loved their response also. That they thought Quesada's apology was more a statement of "sorry we got caught". Let's look again at Joe's comment.
Saying that he could "absolutely see how some people are upset about this," Quesada said that there was "zero discussion to include a group that looked like a Tea Party demonstration," adding, "There was no thought that it represented a particular group."
Quesada then went on to say that Marvel would "apologize for and own up to" a series of "stupid mistakes" that led to them "accidentally identifying" one of the members of the protest group "as being a part of the Tea Party instead of a generic protest group."
Where on earth did this guy read anything like that in Joe's statement? It seems sincere and apologetic to me. He could have made excuses to cover their "gaffe" but instead he owned up to it.

It's like Newt said, I guess ... they have to make themselves appear that everyone else is out to get them. It's that same paranoia and self-righteous bullshit that makes people ignore them entirely, and it serves no good to their message.

Well, that and Sarah Palin. :nyah:

Newt
02-12-2010, 02:16 PM
Here's what I don't get ...

From what I infer from reading this article, the comic portrayed the Tea Party as an organized group of right-wingers who don't trust our government, oppose our tax system and organize at rallies with crazy signs. The comic even used ACTUAL LANGUAGE from one of their own signs.

So ... in what way does the "party" think they have been misrepresented? I mean, that's all true and a fairly accurate, if not verbatim, description of themselves.

I imagine they were upset that Cap didn't support them.

Buckyrig
02-12-2010, 02:19 PM
I think it was this:

He then tells Captain America that he doesn't think their plan will work because "I don't exactly see a black man from Harlem fitting in with a bunch of angry white folks." Captain America then explains that his plan entails sending The Falcon in among the group posing as an IRS agent under the thinking that a black government official will most certainly spark their anger.

Allegory Comics
02-12-2010, 02:37 PM
And that's inaccurate how?

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/1398/slide_1398_20072_large.jpg

Buckyrig
02-12-2010, 03:06 PM
They're "libertarians". "Libertarians" don't see race because they only see people as individuals.

Newt
02-12-2010, 04:10 PM
Unless they're sheeple.

NaveenM
02-12-2010, 05:00 PM
The rightwing can't stand it when someone is offended by them. They always complain about "political correctness".

Of course, true to their narcissistic form, they take umbrage at even the slightest criticism of them. A classic feature of the right, but exemplified by the teabaggers (though the Religious Right is more hypocritical).

Newt
02-12-2010, 05:13 PM
Eh, this sort of behavior is hardly a monopoly of the right. It's a PR tactic, and can be used by anyone. Americans love a scrappy underdog, so casting yourself as such is often beneficial.

Moonrider
02-12-2010, 07:32 PM
Heheh. You know, sometimes I like to comment stupid facebook status (the what-are-you-thinking wall posts) with a serious amount of sarcasm and a high dose of reality, then I delete it so no one else would see it besides the person I'm commenting via their email notification. Because I don't want people think that I'm personally killing the person's character and I know most of the people who make those kind of fb status are stupid enough to set their facebook notification directly to their email address.

Is my post useful or relevant? Yes? No? Fuck off. :laugh:

PC812
02-12-2010, 11:22 PM
When you're carrying signs like this (http://www.relentlesslyoptimistic.com/2010/01/teabagger-founder-had-n-word-sign---teabaggers---gawker.html), you've given up your right to complain about political correctness.

Marvel should apologize for what they did once the teabaggers apologize for the volumes of racist lies they've spewed.

ronin7
02-13-2010, 08:27 AM
The liberal side isn't all it's cracked up to be either. Obama lied about how many jobs were actually lost in the time from from the electoral race to his first few months in as President. He's also lied about other things. Most of the money for the reconstruction act went to corporations such as AIG, etc. I'm not going to say that the right wing is any less guilty of cowtowing to corporations, but Obama is far from innocent of doing so either.

If we had some one a little more concerned about the poor people, and not focused on a future that may not even exist with how bad things are now. Like Clinton, then this country would probably have turned around by now. And really, it doesn't bother me who she was a lawyer for. Both her and her husband helped a lot of people during their tenure.

PC812
02-14-2010, 02:01 AM
The liberal side isn't all it's cracked up to be either. Obama lied about how many jobs were actually lost in the time from from the electoral race to his first few months in as President. He's also lied about other things. Most of the money for the reconstruction act went to corporations such as AIG, etc. I'm not going to say that the right wing is any less guilty of cowtowing to corporations, but Obama is far from innocent of doing so either.
This has nothing to do with Obama or the stimulus. This is all about the teabaggers making racist and vile statements, intentionally spreading dangerous lies, and then showing offense and demanding apologies when something far less severe is said about them. Defending them in this instance is absolutely ridiculous.

Doctor Shock
02-14-2010, 02:47 AM
This has nothing to do with Obama or the stimulus. This is all about the teabaggers making racist and vile statements, intentionally spreading dangerous lies, and then showing offense and demanding apologies when something far less severe is said about them. Defending them in this instance is absolutely ridiculous.No this is about Marvel alienating half of their readership.
And then realizing, Hey Republicans buy comics too! Maybe we should make our comics for everybody.

PC812
02-14-2010, 04:16 AM
No this is about Marvel alienating half of their readership.
I highly doubt the teabaggers make up half of Marvel's readership.

CHWolf
02-14-2010, 10:56 AM
The Tea Party is a mixed bag of right-leaning folks with no real unifying doctrine or belief other than "We don't like Obama".

Why do you think they have no real visible leader? Once they have one, a ton of Tea Partiers would leave because they entirely disagree with the "platform".

In other words, it's not really possible to define what all of them stand for as a group.

This is both positive for some, and negative for most. Even if you're not racist, if you don't want to repeal Medicare, you're lying in bed with those who do and helping them further their cause.

So really, I don't see the problem with a fictional group that represents a real faction of the group while minimizing the others who abide said vile behavior.

ronin7
02-14-2010, 01:10 PM
The Tea Party is a mixed bag of right-leaning folks with no real unifying doctrine or belief other than "We don't like Obama".

Why do you think they have no real visible leader? Once they have one, a ton of Tea Partiers would leave because they entirely disagree with the "platform".

In other words, it's not really possible to define what all of them stand for as a group.

This is both positive for some, and negative for most. Even if you're not racist, if you don't want to repeal Medicare, you're lying in bed with those who do and helping them further their cause.

So really, I don't see the problem with a fictional group that represents a real faction of the group while minimizing the others who abide said vile behavior.


The teabaggers at most are just scared of the future, and they have every reason to be. Obama has not proven his mantra of change and prosperity no matter how much the far left yells it at the top of their lungs. But, what I think is overlooked is that Cap was basically going to throw Falcon into potential lynching situation. Out of everything to get riled up about from both sides. No one brings up that?

I mean, I know Falcon can take care of himself, and it would serve Brubaker's plot point. Yet, was it really necessary? Or was it put there as an intent to drive up sales through controversy?

RandallFlagg
02-14-2010, 02:13 PM
I'm Angry About Stuff! Captain America Was Never, Ever, Ever Used As A Political Tool! Any Instances You Find Are Lies!














You know, other than all of the "the army is great" stuff. And in several comics about censorship. And as recent as Civil War which could easily be considered a political statement.

Doctor Shock
02-14-2010, 02:15 PM
I highly doubt the teabaggers make up half of Marvel's readership.
Republicans, and contrary to what Brubaker thinks there are Black Republicans out there too. The disconnect is with Obama's policies not his skin color.

Buckyrig
02-14-2010, 02:22 PM
Neither Republicans nor Democrats constitute half of the population. I'd be very surprised if either group constituted half of the comic reading public.

ronin7
02-14-2010, 07:02 PM
Republicans, and contrary to what Brubaker thinks there are Black Republicans out there too. The disconnect is with Obama's policies not his skin color.


Which is exactly what I have been saying, but you'll find arguing with liberals will only get you called a racist whether you are black, or not

Allegory Comics
02-14-2010, 07:48 PM
I absolutely agree, Ronin. It's not fair for anyone to call anyone else a racist simply because they disagree with, or don't particulary like, someone of another race. Sometimes it's just an individual thing and doesn't have to be representative of ones feelings toward their entire race.

But there are PLENTY of racists out there gunning for Obama (some of them, literally). When they go to rallies holding up signs that say "White Slavery" and "Niggar" (sic) and wave the confederate flag ... that goes beyond just hating one person. That IS representative of their feelings about the entire race, and it's unacceptable.

Are these people in the majority or the minority of their "party"? Who knows. We can't exactly take a head count. What we do know is that they are the most angry, the most vocal and the most visible, and they give the APPEARANCE that everyone in their group is just like them.

When you let the crazies have the podium (right or left), they discredit everything for which the group stands.

And if the group does NOT support this message of hate, then they should collectively band together to stomp it out or at the very least publicly denounce it and explain that those are the feelings of a few people and NOT the feelings of the group. Until the "party" makes the slightest effort to publicly separate themselves from this bad crop of racists, and denounce their actions, then they're just as guilty in my book. Because they know it's going on and they aren't trying to stop or silence it. They condone it by their acceptance and inaction.

CHWolf
02-14-2010, 08:39 PM
Obama has not proven his mantra of change and prosperity no matter how much the far left yells it at the top of their lungs.

Yeeaahh... no changes from Bush to Obama. <_<

Sorry, but I (and many others) don't accept someone else's "goalpost repositioning" as to what we expected.

We never expected Obama to solve all issues in the first year.

We never expected Obama to turn the world into a Utopia.

We did expect Obama to change the B.S. that had been going on for eight years, and he's progressing there.

The Teabaggers and Republican politicians are now in the business of proving Obama a failure by changing the definition of success.



Barack Obama has never - NEVER - said he would provide all of our heart's desires. He has always - ALWAYS - remained realistic about what can and cannot be done, and has allowed for the fact that even the President of the USA can't promise success. It's a mischaracterization to attach him to a mantra of change and prosperity in such a way as to attempt to prove he has failed to live up to some sort of great guarantee.


</2cents>

Allegory Comics
02-14-2010, 08:57 PM
Yeah, people (even many demorcrats) are faulting him for not fixing everything in the first few months of his adminstrations. Give the man time. He's said all along it will not be easy, and it will not be fast. They also keep blaming him for not fixing the economy disaster in only a year. Talk about unrealistic. The economy really fell apart in early 2008, when the housing market crashed. We knew then, during the campaign, that 2009 was going to be BAD. It wouldn't have mattered WHO was elected. That was one problem we couldn't have stopped and it's hardly Obama's fault.

He can't fix in 1 year what took 8 years to break. He's not the miracle messiah that republicans ignorantly think dems (and himself) thinks that he is.

PC812
02-15-2010, 04:12 AM
You know, other than all of the "the army is great" stuff. And in several comics about censorship. And as recent as Civil War which could easily be considered a political statement.Or "commie-bashing" Cap in the 50s, or taking on a black partner during the Civil Rights Movement, or when Cap became Nomad because Watergate left him really disillusioned, or during the Reagan era when he becomes the Captain because of corruption in the government, or when after 9/11 he went after terrorists while standing up for Arab Americans.

Cap has long been used in a political fashion. And with the exception of the 50s (which was later retconned to not be the real Cap), it's always been a bit more sympathetic to the left than the right.

Republicans, and contrary to what Brubaker thinks there are Black Republicans out there too. The disconnect is with Obama's policies not his skin color.I've read the issue in question. Several times. It was about the teabaggers. So either you're arguing in bad faith or the teabaggers are an accurate representation of the entire Republican party (and if you want us to equate all of them with the teabaggers, then that makes the Republicans look even worse than they already do).

ronin7
02-15-2010, 09:24 AM
Yeah, people (even many demorcrats) are faulting him for not fixing everything in the first few months of his adminstrations. Give the man time. He's said all along it will not be easy, and it will not be fast. They also keep blaming him for not fixing the economy disaster in only a year. Talk about unrealistic. The economy really fell apart in early 2008, when the housing market crashed. We knew then, during the campaign, that 2009 was going to be BAD. It wouldn't have mattered WHO was elected. That was one problem we couldn't have stopped and it's hardly Obama's fault.

He can't fix in 1 year what took 8 years to break. He's not the miracle messiah that republicans ignorantly think dems (and himself) thinks that he is.

You don't see the people who put Jesus murals in the windows with Obama in the place of Jesus. You don't see how misguided some of these Obama supporters are. They actually do think Obama is a messiah. A lady who lives down the street from me has acted with nothing, but a racist attitude to every one of us white people who live in the area when we are nothing, but nice to her. And she has one of those Obama murals in her window. It's been made worse since he said the police acted stupidly when they arrested his professor friend for disorderly conduct. Both sides who harbor racist factions have become more vocal since then and it's only a matter of time before they'll want to go to war.

If that happens, it will tear this country apart. And Obama will deserve a hefty part of the blame.

He has a large influence on a lot of the vocal liberals and members of the black community in this country, and yes he's infuriated the most racist of our people, but he's also infuriated other people who have a voice, but get shouted down by Obama's supporters. But that doesn't mean he is faultless. His stimulus was a major boon to the corporations, and no one else. His other efforts have only aided the middle class while the poor people get poorer. Every day I see people out in the street begging for food and donations. And Obama makes excuses, continues to blame Bush for everything. Instead of owning up to his own mistakes with his failed policies.

Defending him does no one any good until he starts owning up to his misakes, and starts correcting them.

-Mick

Lightfoot
02-15-2010, 10:37 AM
Obama was in an impossible situation with the world economy but then he did benefit from the dire state of the US economy coming into the election. Only a lunatic would have thought such a devastatingly huge impact on jobs and market capital could be turned around in a few months. Much of the anger should be directed at the casino banks who are now on an even footing thanks to the broad tax base of working people who have propped them up through difficult times.

As for Captain America, he is, after all, patriot of patriots and so nobody would like to be alligned against him. The inclusion of the Falcon in the narrative just compounds the whole tax and health reform furore; left or right, you can't ignore the wrath of old white money who see a redistribution of wealth to both black and white poor without medical care.

Having said that the fact that, for example, a guy can have 4 fingers chopped off in a farming accident and then be told he can only afford 3 to be sown back on is pretty scary (that's a real case).

Sorry I digress from Captain America a little.

Allegory Comics
02-15-2010, 11:23 AM
You don't see the people who put Jesus murals in the windows with Obama in the place of Jesus. You don't see how misguided some of these Obama supporters are. They actually do think Obama is a messiah. A lady who lives down the street from me has acted with nothing, but a racist attitude to every one of us white people who live in the area when we are nothing, but nice to her. And she has one of those Obama murals in her window. It's been made worse since he said the police acted stupidly when they arrested his professor friend for disorderly conduct. Both sides who harbor racist factions have become more vocal since then and it's only a matter of time before they'll want to go to war.

If that happens, it will tear this country apart. And Obama will deserve a hefty part of the blame.

I agree. Racism is out of hand on BOTH sides. I'm very tired of the white man taking all the blame in this war, really I am. But to blame Obama for that is ignorant. It sounds like you're suggesting this all happened because we have a black president, and it would be better if we didn't have a black president at all. People are responsible for their own actions and words.

Don't blame Obama for those who are overreacting to his election (and there are many crazies on both side, to be sure).

The election of a black president was inevitable. I didn't know I'd see it in my lifetime, but I'm glad that I did. Whenever it happened, be it now or 20 years from now, this division was going to happen. It's almost like it HAS to happen before we can get past it. It's not easy and it's not fun, and I hope there isn't too much violence. But we can't shirk social progression just because it frightens a few stupid racists. If anything, good will come of this someday.

I just hope I'm here to see it.

Buckyrig
02-15-2010, 11:41 AM
I agree. Racism is out of hand on BOTH sides.

People need to stop conceding this false equivalency. It's a huge, and pernicious, lie.

Eugene Selassie
02-15-2010, 12:16 PM
How were things supposed to be turned around in only a year?

ronin7
02-15-2010, 12:37 PM
I agree. Racism is out of hand on BOTH sides. I'm very tired of the white man taking all the blame in this war, really I am. But to blame Obama for that is ignorant. It sounds like you're suggesting this all happened because we have a black president, and it would be better if we didn't have a black president at all. People are responsible for their own actions and words.

Don't blame Obama for those who are overreacting to his election (and there are many crazies on both side, to be sure).

The election of a black president was inevitable. I didn't know I'd see it in my lifetime, but I'm glad that I did. Whenever it happened, be it now or 20 years from now, this division was going to happen. It's almost like it HAS to happen before we can get past it. It's not easy and it's not fun, and I hope there isn't too much violence. But we can't shirk social progression just because it frightens a few stupid racists. If anything, good will come of this someday.

I just hope I'm here to see it.


No, what I was saying is that as symbol he's doing more damage than good. He alienating more people than he's unifying. One liberal newscaster coined him the great unifier, but I have only seen mud slinging, and increased tension between not only Democrats and Republicans, but also whites and blacks, as well as social classes.

If he does save this country from economic meltdown, that will be something of merit, but so far he's shown he's very elitist and ignorant of what's going on.

Allegory Comics
02-15-2010, 12:46 PM
Like I said ... whether it happened now or in 20 years, it was going to happen eventually and when it did we were going to have this race tension. Where it goes next is critical. It could kill us all and make us weaker and more divided, but I don't think it will. It might for a short time, but that's just the nature of such a conflict. In the end, I think we'll emerge a more enlightened and accepting country. But we had to go through this before we could ever move past it.

What would you suggest? We just never have a black president because we don't want to upset some stupid racists?

How many people fought against Jackie Robinson playing major league baseball? Change isn't easy, but it is necessary and gets better over time. If we don't do it now, we're just delaying the inevitable. I'd rather get it over with so we can move past it.

The DarkMind
02-15-2010, 12:48 PM
And that's inaccurate how?

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/1398/slide_1398_20072_large.jpg

I expected to see more mullets and flannel in this picture. :(


No, what I was saying is that as symbol he's doing more damage than good. He alienating more people than he's unifying. One liberal newscaster coined him the great unifier, but I have only seen mud slinging, and increased tension between not only Democrats and Republicans, but also whites and blacks, as well as social classes.

Obama didn't make himself a symbol though. He didn't market himself as the great unifier or a messiah. The media and the public did (mostly the media). All he did was say things are broken, he has a plan on how to fix it, and if everyone works together it can be fixed.

Newt
02-15-2010, 01:09 PM
This has stopped being about comic books and should be continued in Beyond The Frame.

Scribbly
02-15-2010, 02:08 PM
Quesada then went on to say that Marvel would "apologize for and own up to" a series of "stupid mistakes" that led to them "accidentally identifying" one of the members of the protest group "as being a part of the Tea Party instead of a generic protest group." He explained that they were on deadline to get the issue to the printer for publication, and in the course of sending it off it was noticed that the signs in the scene contained no words or phrases. He said the editor then asked the letterer to "fudge in some quick signs" and that in the "rush to get the book out of the door," the letterer "looked on the net and started pulling slogans" from signs captured in photographs at Tea Party protests in order to make them appear "believable."As Quesada said, it was a letterer’s entire fault.
That’s what they got when they leave the writing decisions in a letterer hands.
Apocalypse and Armageddon. :thumbs:

Jason Powell
02-15-2010, 02:24 PM
until he starts owning up to his misakes, and starts correcting them.

-Mick

You mean like Bush did when he went to war with a country that had nothing to do with 9-11 (though he made it out that they did, and the person who was responsible still runs free to this day) and when he did not find the WMD that he swore was there (because of faulty information from the FBI, riiiight)?

Everyone makes mistakes, Bush made alllllllllllllloooooooooottttt of them, and the first year in office for a new President is often spent mending the bridges the previous President burnt -- And lets face it, Bush burnt allllllllllloooooooootttt of bridges. Bush used fear and plain old dishonesty to run America and for 8 years run it he did, right into the ground. For anyone to want a complete overhaul in a year is insane.

But here are two accomplishments he has made in a year. 1) Saved my job and a lot of other American car builders. 2) Saved my mothers home from being foreclosed on and a lot of other Americans. And that is only two of the many accomplishments he has made in a year and I believe more will come.

-Jason

Eugene Selassie
02-15-2010, 03:17 PM
You mean like Bush did when he went to war with a country that had nothing to do with 9-11 (though he made it out that they did, and the person who was responsible still runs free to this day) and when he did not find the WMD that he swore was there (because of faulty information from the FBI, riiiight)?

Everyone makes mistakes, Bush made alllllllllllllloooooooooottttt of them, and the first year in office for a new President is often spent mending the bridges the previous President burnt -- And lets face it, Bush burnt allllllllllloooooooootttt of bridges. Bush used fear and plain old dishonesty to run America and for 8 years run it he did, right into the ground. For anyone to want a complete overhaul in a year is insane.

But here are two accomplishments he has made in a year. 1) Saved my job and a lot of other American car builders. 2) Saved my mothers home from being foreclosed on and a lot of other Americans. And that is only two of the many accomplishments he has made in a year and I believe more will come.

-Jason

Well said.

And glad the Auto industry crash didn't hurt you bro.

CHWolf
02-15-2010, 04:10 PM
It's been made worse since he said the police acted stupidly when they arrested his professor friend for disorderly conduct.

They weren't friends... :huh:

I'm not one to treat any politician like a messiah, but I'm also not into mischaracterizing them.

Honestly a lot of folks thought the police acted poorly. If I (a whitebread cornball if ever there was one) were in a neighborhood mostly/totally populated by, say, an asian community, and was questioned as to whether or not I belonged there, I'd think the cops were acting poorly.

"[...] the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home." - Barack Obama

I don't know how controversial a statement like that really is. It's pretty much a straight-up fact - without the "spin" wordplay I *thought* people hated...



[...] but he's also infuriated other people who have a voice, but get shouted down by Obama's supporters.

So by that token does Palin/etc. deserve a "hefty" part of the blame for anything Tea Party members do? I'm not a fan of any of the said, but I definitely wouldn't blame any politician for what sections of their fanbase do.



His stimulus was a major boon to the corporations, and no one else.


The Bush administration's stimulus?



His other efforts have only aided the middle class while the poor people get poorer. Every day I see people out in the street begging for food and donations. And Obama makes excuses, continues to blame Bush for everything. Instead of owning up to his own mistakes with his failed policies.


1.) After the thrashing the middle class has taken, are you really faulting the adminstration for their assistance?

2.) You see people on the streets no matter what. This has absolutely no connection to the subject. It bothers me, quite frankly, that there's some attempt here to tie all poverty in general to any President, much less one in office for one year. I sincerely doubt anyone you've seen 'begging' was living a life of luxury before Obama was sworn in.

3.) Obama makes no excuses and in fact tries to steer people away from blaming the Bush admin. He states the undenyable fact that he inherited problems, but specifically states that it's not helpful to look back. He ran on "don't elect Bush 2.0" but that message has long changed.

In fact, the only reason he needs to keep restating that he inherited Bush's problems is because people keep trying to specifically blame Obama for them. This is even evidenced in your very post, here.



Defending him does no one any good until he starts owning up to his misakes, and starts correcting them.


Firstly, there's absolutely NO reason not to defend the man's actions or him personally. That's not really a fair restriction for you to place on others.

For example - If someone calls him a socialist, I'm going to prove them wrong. Sorry if that seems distasteful somehow.

Lastly, he has owned up to his mistakes. He has even said "I made a mistake" on certain occasions.

Really, I don't see much meat to any of the arguements seen here or across the spectrum of anti-Obama rhetoric.


It's all pretty 'fast and loose'. It always reminds me of the father/son mock arguement in the film "Thank you for smoking."


"Let's debate which is better... Vanilla or Chocolate."

"Vanilla is best."

"People should be able to choose their flavor."

"That's not what we're supposed to be debating."

"Exactly."


(paraphrasing)

RandallFlagg
02-15-2010, 04:16 PM
LOUD NOISES!

http://www.zuguide.com/image/Steve-Carell-Anchorman-The-Legend-of-Ron-Burgundy.7.jpg

CHWolf
02-15-2010, 09:24 PM
Point vs. Counterpoint != Noise. :)

At least until someone starts typing in all caps and insulting someone's mother.

WHICH REMINDS ME...

Scribbly
02-15-2010, 11:06 PM
Point vs. Counterpoint != Noise. :)

At least until someone starts typing in all caps and insulting someone's mother.

WHICH REMINDS ME...
BLAME THE LETTERER! :w00t: :laugh:

CHWolf
02-15-2010, 11:14 PM
Letters.

Worse than tracers.


Edit: Sorry, I mean inkers.






:slap: I'm joking!! :mad:

NaveenM
02-15-2010, 11:37 PM
Neither Republicans nor Democrats constitute half of the population. I'd be very surprised if either group constituted half of the comic reading public.

I'd be surprised too.

A lot of people have general views on politics, but are not wedded to any ideology or party.

Kevin Lee
02-16-2010, 12:16 AM
The comic is a perfect example of the continuing agenda to categorize all those who are anti-government or anti-current government as insane, stupid, or evil.

The big problem is, a lot of them are.

PC812
02-16-2010, 05:30 AM
No, what I was saying is that as symbol he's doing more damage than good. He alienating more people than he's unifying. One liberal newscaster coined him the great unifier, but I have only seen mud slinging, and increased tension between not only Democrats and Republicans, but also whites and blacks, as well as social classes.

If he does save this country from economic meltdown, that will be something of merit, but so far he's shown he's very elitist and ignorant of what's going on.Oh god, not the ridiculous elitist argument again. It's got to be one of the dumbest arguments ever brought into the political sphere. I like my neighbors, I like my friends, but they've barely got a handle on their own lives and I doubt I'd even trust them with looking after a houseplant. Why the hell would I ever want them looking after an entire country?

I'm just going to leave this one to Jon Stewart:

Y’know, I hear what you’re all saying, but doesn’t 'elite' mean 'good'? Is that not something we’re looking for in a President anymore? Y’know what, candidates? I know elite is a bad word in politics and you wanna go bowling and throw back a few beers. But the job you’re applying for, if you get it and it goes well… THEY MIGHT CARVE YOUR HEAD INTO A MOUNTAIN! If you don’t actually think you’re better than us, THEN WHAT THE **** ARE YOU DOING?! In fact, not only do I want an elite President, I want someone who’s embarrassingly superior to me. Somebody who speaks sixteen languages and sleeps two hours a night hanging upside down in a chamber they themselves designed.

Scribbly
02-16-2010, 07:20 AM
Neither Republicans nor Democrats constitute half of the population. I'd be very surprised if either group constituted half of the comic reading public.
Exactly, there are also the Independents, but they never can make enough votes for becoming Government.
Neither they can make enough sales in the Direct Market.

ronin7
02-16-2010, 09:30 AM
Like I said ... whether it happened now or in 20 years, it was going to happen eventually and when it did we were going to have this race tension. Where it goes next is critical. It could kill us all and make us weaker and more divided, but I don't think it will. It might for a short time, but that's just the nature of such a conflict. In the end, I think we'll emerge a more enlightened and accepting country. But we had to go through this before we could ever move past it.

What would you suggest? We just never have a black president because we don't want to upset some stupid racists?

How many people fought against Jackie Robinson playing major league baseball? Change isn't easy, but it is necessary and gets better over time. If we don't do it now, we're just delaying the inevitable. I'd rather get it over with so we can move past it.


No, I wouldn't want to stop social progression. I think racism is wrong. I just think Obama should take more responsibility for his mistakes instead of channeling blame on others.

Allegory Comics
02-16-2010, 11:28 AM
But among his "mistakes" you're counting racial tensions. I don't think we can blame him for that. This would have happened no matter who we elected as the first black president. It was an inevitable conflict that we, as a nation, must face if we ever want to get past it.

Let me be clear, I do think he has some blame in some areas, but not in this one ... and not as much in the economy as people want to believe (though he's not entirely insulated, either).

The DarkMind
02-16-2010, 11:40 AM
If they had Falcon bitch slap Cap and refuse to play the role of his sidekick/distraction element so that the white man can be the hero while reminding him who's in the white house now... would the tea baggers complaint be overlooked by Marvel and the media?

Just a thought.

Scribbly
02-16-2010, 11:42 AM
Actually, talking about racism is narrowing a bigger concept.
A good racist may allow himself for screw up with no remorse
people of his own race as well.

ronin7
02-16-2010, 12:28 PM
But among his "mistakes" you're counting racial tensions. I don't think we can blame him for that. This would have happened no matter who we elected as the first black president. It was an inevitable conflict that we, as a nation, must face if we ever want to get past it.

Let me be clear, I do think he has some blame in some areas, but not in this one ... and not as much in the economy as people want to believe (though he's not entirely insulated, either).

Well...I 'll concede that. Race relations have been getting worse for some time now anyways.

Eugene Selassie
02-16-2010, 12:47 PM
Well...I 'll concede that. Race relations have been getting worse for some time now anyways.

Yeah. They just happened to around 2000-2001...

darrell31316
02-16-2010, 05:02 PM
No, I wouldn't want to stop social progression. I think racism is wrong. I just think Obama should take more responsibility for his mistakes instead of channeling blame on others.
Examples please?

PC812
02-16-2010, 09:35 PM
No, I wouldn't want to stop social progression. I think racism is wrong. I just think Obama should take more responsibility for his mistakes instead of channeling blame on others.
Obviously you paid zero attention to any number of speeches where he HAS taken responsibility. What's all this blame he's been throwing around? And how is he heightening racial tension? It's his opponents who have been heightening racial tension by using him as a scapegoat. "Y'know, if that black guy didn't have the nerve to run for President, none of this would be a problem." :slap:

Allegory Comics
02-16-2010, 10:50 PM
Let's be fair, guys. Ronin DID cede to my point already that race tensions had been building for some time prior to Obama, and that this would have happened no matter who the first black president was. I give Ronin credit for at least clarifying that much and we shouldn't gang up on him further to keep this noise going. The whole thread has gotten off topic, and Ronin did his part to meet me in the middle. Now I'm doing the same.

CHWolf
02-17-2010, 01:20 AM
Back on topic:

Did this comic feature a character called The Red Bag?

Doctor Shock
08-13-2010, 06:28 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GizNwzKo3n8&feature=player_embedded neato!