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View Full Version : Avengers by Bendis & Romita Jr., due May


Troy Wall
02-01-2010, 03:17 PM
Just announced (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=24658)

JamieRoberts
02-01-2010, 03:58 PM
Yeahhhh... I'm gonna end up buying this. Love JR Jr's work, and I actually like Bendis too, but more so with a good artist.

Eugene Selassie
02-01-2010, 04:33 PM
I was going to give this a chance (I know, I'm a glutton for punishment) but it was all dependent on the art.
JRjr is a decent artist but doesn't seem suited for this type of book. I was hoping Cheung did it.
OR Sean Chen (Who did an AMAZING 2 issue stint on Mighty Avengers).

ronin7
02-01-2010, 06:47 PM
I was going to give this a chance (I know, I'm a glutton for punishment) but it was all dependent on the art.
JRjr is a decent artist but doesn't seem suited for this type of book. I was hoping Cheung did it.
OR Sean Chen (Who did an AMAZING 2 issue stint on Mighty Avengers).

JrJR is your god, so buy it whore ;)

HaphazardJoy
02-01-2010, 06:52 PM
I was going to give this a chance (I know, I'm a glutton for punishment) but it was all dependent on the art.
JRjr is a decent artist but doesn't seem suited for this type of book. I was hoping Cheung did it.
OR Sean Chen (Who did an AMAZING 2 issue stint on Mighty Avengers).

Yeah, I'm going to be buying in any case, if we're being honest with ourselves now, but that Cap teaser. :confused:

Ian Ascher
02-01-2010, 06:54 PM
Im there....

darrell31316
02-01-2010, 08:42 PM
It doesn't bother anyone that this is the umpteenth relaunch of the Avengers?

HaphazardJoy
02-01-2010, 08:51 PM
It doesn't bother anyone that this is the umpteenth relaunch of the Avengers?

Nope.

JamieRoberts
02-01-2010, 08:54 PM
There's no point in getting annoyed about that anymore. You'll just spend the next decade pissed off.

L Jamal
02-01-2010, 09:21 PM
It doesn't bother anyone that this is the umpteenth relaunch of the Avengers?
Define relaunch.
By my count this is the 4th re-launch of a new Avengers series.
Avengers (1996: Heroes Reborn)
Avengers (1998: Heroes Return)
New Avengers (2005)
and now this new series

darrell31316
02-01-2010, 09:28 PM
Nope.
I didn't think so but for my own sanity I had to ask.

Eugene Selassie
02-01-2010, 09:41 PM
It doesn't bother anyone that this is the umpteenth relaunch of the Avengers?

I would answer, but I'm not allowed to express my views on this subject any more on this site... :nyah:

PC812
02-03-2010, 07:42 AM
I'm of mixed opinion on this. I love JRJr and I love that the real Avengers are coming back, but Bendis is writing this and while I love him on crime books, I absolutely hate it when he tries to write big-league superheroics. I'll give the first issue a try and then go from there.

Now Bendis on a Power Man and Iron Fist book, that I'd be excited about.

Eugene Selassie
02-03-2010, 02:09 PM
If Bendis did a Heroes for Hire series with Cage, Iron Fist, Jessica Jones, Echo, Misty Knight and White Tiger, I'd subscribe til the end of time.

Jamir with an E
02-04-2010, 03:33 PM
If Bendis did a Heroes for Hire series with Cage, Iron Fist, Jessica Jones, Echo, Misty Knight and White Tiger, I'd subscribe til the end of time.

That would rock like there's no tomorrow (unlike me who rocks like he has to get up for work the next morning and bums change to catch a bus back home). That's a heck of an idea, though.

PC812
02-05-2010, 10:38 AM
The confirmed members so far are Captain America (Bucky), Iron Man, Spider-Woman, and Hawkeye (Clint -- in the costume he rightly belongs in). Thor's a shoe-in and I'm hoping we get a few other classic Avengers in there. Wonder Man and the Beast on the same team again would be great. Chuck in Ms. Marvel and you've got an awesome team of Avengers.

Even though I wish Slott was writing this book (or Joe Casey -- man's a HUGE Avengers fan and has definitely proved he's got a handle on them with Earth's Mightiest Heroes), I'm willing to forgive Bendis' past transgressions against the Avengers for now. Just hope he can pull this off.

ronin7
02-05-2010, 02:02 PM
The confirmed members so far are Captain America (Bucky), Iron Man, Spider-Woman, and Hawkeye (Clint -- in the costume he rightly belongs in). Thor's a shoe-in and I'm hoping we get a few other classic Avengers in there. Wonder Man and the Beast on the same team again would be great. Chuck in Ms. Marvel and you've got an awesome team of Avengers.

Even though I wish Slott was writing this book (or Joe Casey -- man's a HUGE Avengers fan and has definitely proved he's got a handle on them with Earth's Mightiest Heroes), I'm willing to forgive Bendis' past transgressions against the Avengers for now. Just hope he can pull this off.

Both Slott and Casey didn't do so well with Avengers. Bendis is the only one who has kept the sales up (plus maintain quality and deadlines). And I doubt he's going to bring in more classics. I imagine Luke Cage will be in there somewhere. If not, it'll be some one Bendis decides to dust off.

Eugene Selassie
02-08-2010, 08:15 PM
Both Slott and Casey didn't do so well with Avengers. Bendis is the only one who has kept the sales up (plus maintain quality and deadlines). And I doubt he's going to bring in more classics. I imagine Luke Cage will be in there somewhere. If not, it'll be some one Bendis decides to dust off.

I think your statement is incorrect.

Just because an album doesn't go platinum doesn't mean it is bad.

And just because an Avengers comic doesn't sell New Avengers numbers doesn't mean it "didn't do so well".

Just remember...if Dan Slott had the artists that Bendis has had throughout his NA run and if Slott also had Spidey and Wolverine on the team, are you trying to tell me the sales would be NO HIGHER than they would be now?

JamieRoberts
02-08-2010, 09:05 PM
'Mighty...' after Bendis left took on a totally new identity. It managed to stand apart from the constant onslaught of TV series-style plotting and events (I mean, it's involved in an event now, but it never felt bound by it). I think that was a relaunch by any other name. It's only now apparent because of Marvel's plan to end the books after Siege that there was indeed a reason that 'Mighty...' wasn't given the full works with regard to a new #1 and tons of press. It's usually Marvel's way, right?

I like Bendis. His Ultimate Spider-Man was, at least for the first 50 or so issues, unmissable. He excels at crime fiction. The Avengers franchise has benefitted from his stewardship (regardless of opinion as to the quality or whether he 'gets' the Avengers) and is now in a much stronger position coming out of Siege. Right? Job done. What I don't get is, and I know Bendis is the rock star of comics right now, but why are the big press releases and fanfare reserved almost solely for his books? Maybe Brubaker gets some with Cap, but Slott really lost out, despite effectively starting this Age of Heroes over a year early.

Slott is a good, solid, fun writer. Khoi Pham is a rising star whose art has come along in leaps and bounds just on 'Mighty'. They should have had more success. I don't get it.

Anyway... back on the original topic. I've seen no actual confirmation that Clint is Hawkeye. It's not Bullseye, sure, but is JRJr's rendition of his nose, mouth and chin so immediately recognisable as Clint? Either way, it's good to have a proper Hawkeye.

You know what feeling I'm getting? This feels like when Heroes Reborn was coming to an end and the Heroes Return solicitations were coming out. Going through the previews, with names like Busiek, Perez, Lobdell, Davis, Waid and Garney, Chen... it felt like 'proper' Marvel. Maybe my favourite period in my comic reading years. If 'Avengers' can get me as excited after one issue as 'Captain America' did on the return of Waid and Garney, I'm in for the long haul.

Bendis.... make it fun. That's all I ask.

Eugene Selassie
02-09-2010, 12:50 PM
'Mighty...' after Bendis left took on a totally new identity. It managed to stand apart from the constant onslaught of TV series-style plotting and events (I mean, it's involved in an event now, but it never felt bound by it). I think that was a relaunch by any other name. It's only now apparent because of Marvel's plan to end the books after Siege that there was indeed a reason that 'Mighty...' wasn't given the full works with regard to a new #1 and tons of press. It's usually Marvel's way, right?

I like Bendis. His Ultimate Spider-Man was, at least for the first 50 or so issues, unmissable. He excels at crime fiction. The Avengers franchise has benefitted from his stewardship (regardless of opinion as to the quality or whether he 'gets' the Avengers) and is now in a much stronger position coming out of Siege. Right? Job done. What I don't get is, and I know Bendis is the rock star of comics right now, but why are the big press releases and fanfare reserved almost solely for his books? Maybe Brubaker gets some with Cap, but Slott really lost out, despite effectively starting this Age of Heroes over a year early.

Slott is a good, solid, fun writer. Khoi Pham is a rising star whose art has come along in leaps and bounds just on 'Mighty'. They should have had more success. I don't get it.

Anyway... back on the original topic. I've seen no actual confirmation that Clint is Hawkeye. It's not Bullseye, sure, but is JRJr's rendition of his nose, mouth and chin so immediately recognisable as Clint? Either way, it's good to have a proper Hawkeye.

You know what feeling I'm getting? This feels like when Heroes Reborn was coming to an end and the Heroes Return solicitations were coming out. Going through the previews, with names like Busiek, Perez, Lobdell, Davis, Waid and Garney, Chen... it felt like 'proper' Marvel. Maybe my favourite period in my comic reading years. If 'Avengers' can get me as excited after one issue as 'Captain America' did on the return of Waid and Garney, I'm in for the long haul.

Bendis.... make it fun. That's all I ask.

I also don't see why Mighty and the Initiative didn't get the same amount of hype that New/Dark Avengers did.

And I agree, probably my FAVORITE period of comics was Busiek/Chen Iron Man, Waid/Garney Captain America, Jurgens/RomitaJr Thor, etc...

The 90s weren't all bad when it comes to comics. :cool:

Paul Sanderson
02-09-2010, 07:00 PM
Define relaunch.
By my count this is the 4th re-launch of a new Avengers series.
Avengers (1996: Heroes Reborn)
Avengers (1998: Heroes Return)
New Avengers (2005)
and now this new series

That's already a few too many, and now this new one :rolleyes:

JamieRoberts
02-09-2010, 08:11 PM
That's already a few too many, and now this new one :rolleyes:
Well, yeah. From one perspective, I see why it's grating. It comes across as cynical and almost disrespectful of what came before, the foundations that were laid out for the franchises.

But, from another perspective, comics are an anomaly when it comes to long-running forms of entertainment. Other than TV soaps, I can't think of anything which is presented as a single, unbroken narrative which can last decades in the cases of the most successful stories. As much as it's something which identifies the medium, there's no real reason it should always be this way. Relaunches at least provide a potential new reader with a fighting chance. If the comic you take a look in the store is issue #437 and you've never heard of the characters... you're likely to feel a bit daunted, surely? It can be a yoke on a book's (more accurately, a franchise's) neck.

Paul Sanderson
02-10-2010, 12:23 AM
Well, yeah. From one perspective, I see why it's grating. It comes across as cynical and almost disrespectful of what came before, the foundations that were laid out for the franchises.

But, from another perspective, comics are an anomaly when it comes to long-running forms of entertainment. Other than TV soaps, I can't think of anything which is presented as a single, unbroken narrative which can last decades in the cases of the most successful stories. As much as it's something which identifies the medium, there's no real reason it should always be this way. Relaunches at least provide a potential new reader with a fighting chance. If the comic you take a look in the store is issue #437 and you've never heard of the characters... you're likely to feel a bit daunted, surely? It can be a yoke on a book's (more accurately, a franchise's) neck.

I don't mind relaunches. But there can be too many and some relaunches are just relaunches for relaunches sake, to give buyers a new #1. That's wrong. I think that's the case here (and in too many cases overall). Doesn't mean this new series won't be good or worthwhile. That's a whole other debate.

I doubt it will drastically alter sales for the better, thusly negating the reason (as you state) for the relaunch in the first place.

JamieRoberts
02-10-2010, 03:38 AM
It bothers me more when a title that was relaunched recently returns to old numbering for a #500 or something. So cynical.

ronin7
02-10-2010, 11:35 AM
I think your statement is incorrect.

Just because an album doesn't go platinum doesn't mean it is bad.

And just because an Avengers comic doesn't sell New Avengers numbers doesn't mean it "didn't do so well".

Just remember...if Dan Slott had the artists that Bendis has had throughout his NA run and if Slott also had Spidey and Wolverine on the team, are you trying to tell me the sales would be NO HIGHER than they would be now?

Ever heard of LFO? Lyte Funky Ones? Or what about Rico Suave? They never went platinum, and no one has heard from them since. Corporations like Marvel and DC look for talent that can not only achieve success, but deliver their money back and more. Now, I'm not saying Slott isn't a bankable writer, but he's not on the level of Bendis. Nor is Busiek, or any of the traditional names you can mention because they simply don't have that "it" factor to get people talking like Bendis and Millar do. Look back at all of the most popular books, the most sold stories, and they are by the most polarizing, most controversial writers in the industry such as Miller, Byrne, Morrison, Moore, McFarlane, etc.

Slott isn't controversial, he's a likeable guy. He doesn't really change anything, he plays with the toys using the methods his idols would. And people just don't gravitate toward that. They want shocking, they want drama, and change despite arguing that they don't.

I think even if Slott did have Spider-Man and Wolverine, and great artists like Bendis did, the sales would still fall as fast as Busiek's did and not as slow as Bendis' run did.

Eugene Selassie
02-10-2010, 12:07 PM
Ever heard of LFO? Lyte Funky Ones? Or what about Rico Suave? They never went platinum, and no one has heard from them since. Corporations like Marvel and DC look for talent that can not only achieve success, but deliver their money back and more. Now, I'm not saying Slott isn't a bankable writer, but he's not on the level of Bendis. Nor is Busiek, or any of the traditional names you can mention because they simply don't have that "it" factor to get people talking like Bendis and Millar do. Look back at all of the most popular books, the most sold stories, and they are by the most polarizing, most controversial writers in the industry such as Miller, Byrne, Morrison, Moore, McFarlane, etc.

Slott isn't controversial, he's a likeable guy. He doesn't really change anything, he plays with the toys using the methods his idols would. And people just don't gravitate toward that. They want shocking, they want drama, and change despite arguing that they don't.

I think even if Slott did have Spider-Man and Wolverine, and great artists like Bendis did, the sales would still fall as fast as Busiek's did and not as slow as Bendis' run did.

Well, I think that whole controversy creates cash thing works the first 2 or 3 times, then the fanbase wakes up.
I don't think they fall for crap from people like Mark Millar the same way they did in 2004-2006. He still sells, but look at his numbers from back then compared to recently.

And as far as not falling as fast???

Busiek/Perez numbers were in the 100,000s for the majority of their run. It wasn't until a fill in arc from Jerry Ordway until the numbers fell below that, and I have a few magazines at home with articles guesstimating that if it weren't for that fill in arc, the numbers would've remained that high significantly longer.

ronin7
02-10-2010, 02:19 PM
Well, I think that whole controversy creates cash thing works the first 2 or 3 times, then the fanbase wakes up.
I don't think they fall for crap from people like Mark Millar the same way they did in 2004-2006. He still sells, but look at his numbers from back then compared to recently.

And as far as not falling as fast???

Busiek/Perez numbers were in the 100,000s for the majority of their run. It wasn't until a fill in arc from Jerry Ordway until the numbers fell below that, and I have a few magazines at home with articles guesstimating that if it weren't for that fill in arc, the numbers would've remained that high significantly longer.

Part of Millar's lower sales has to do with the economy, and how it's driven the pendulum the other way in what people want. The other part is Millar has been phoning in his work (i.e. not trying) like he has with his creator owned projects which have become licensed movie properties. I think Millar is bored with Marvel and wants to desperately get back to DC so he can accomplish his Superman revamp plans, and other high concept, DC suited ideas.

As for Busiek/Perez numbers, I've read several lists and articles that showed a drop not that far into their run. From 196,000 to 80 some thousand. And it just continued to decline. Most of these articles I read cited that none of the Thor fans who read the series were pleased with Thor being powered down while Wanda was powered up, others hated the speech bubbles designs for Thor, and other complaints which caused the readers to drop the book in numbers.

While Bendis has been criticized by a minority, (a very small) minority of fans. His work stayed in the 100,000 range for some time before dropping slowly down to what it is now. Even Dark Avengers for a spell was in the 100,000 range for a smidgen despite the downturn in the economy.

Eugene Selassie
02-10-2010, 02:58 PM
Part of Millar's lower sales has to do with the economy, and how it's driven the pendulum the other way in what people want. The other part is Millar has been phoning in his work (i.e. not trying) like he has with his creator owned projects which have become licensed movie properties. I think Millar is bored with Marvel and wants to desperately get back to DC so he can accomplish his Superman revamp plans, and other high concept, DC suited ideas.

As for Busiek/Perez numbers, I've read several lists and articles that showed a drop not that far into their run. From 196,000 to 80 some thousand. And it just continued to decline. Most of these articles I read cited that none of the Thor fans who read the series were pleased with Thor being powered down while Wanda was powered up, others hated the speech bubbles designs for Thor, and other complaints which caused the readers to drop the book in numbers.

While Bendis has been criticized by a minority, (a very small) minority of fans. His work stayed in the 100,000 range for some time before dropping slowly down to what it is now. Even Dark Avengers for a spell was in the 100,000 range for a smidgen despite the downturn in the economy.

ALSO forgotten is the fact that Bendis has been allowed to dictate nearly every major event in the universe. Had Busiek had the power to shape the entire marvel u and make his stuff the most important, ALSO sales wouldve been different.

Moonrider
02-10-2010, 06:07 PM
http://i45.tinypic.com/66g4kz.jpg

Eugene Selassie
02-10-2010, 06:33 PM
Do you think the rumors are true of Thrice monthly Avengers with rotating creative teams?

Moonrider
02-10-2010, 06:41 PM
Do you think the rumors are true of Thrice monthly Avengers with rotating creative teams?

Gosh, I hope not.

Paul Sanderson
02-10-2010, 06:45 PM
So do I. That's a terrible idea.

Eugene Selassie
02-10-2010, 07:18 PM
Gosh, I hope not.

I don't know if that would work that well with the clashing styles of the different Avengers writers.

X-men...to be honest, that one could go 3x monthly. Astonishing comes out sporadically and Legacy is on the fringes of the x-universe right now, but those could easily be folded and Fraction/Carey/Ellis could rotate. OR Astonishing could be left out there on the fringes as a 4th week book.

Those are different voices telling the same type of stories and would work with the X-writers.

I think it'd be impossible to do that on Avengers right now.

JamieRoberts
02-10-2010, 08:13 PM
Hell, make Avengers fortnightly with the same creative team. Bendis writes a billion books a month, so he can handle it, and Romita Jr is a machine! Remember when he was doing ASM and Thor every month? Crazy.