PDA

View Full Version : Avengers books are ending


JamieRoberts
01-16-2010, 03:24 PM
At least for a while, there's gonna be no Avengers ongoing books following Siege.

Tell 'em, Melrose! (http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2010/01/marvels-avengers-franchise-to-end-in-the-wake-of-siege/)

So... we gonna stick our necks out and predict what's in store?

Mike225
01-16-2010, 03:30 PM
I got nothing. I just hope someone with respect for the characters can relaunch at some point.

JamieRoberts
01-16-2010, 03:42 PM
My guess is that they're setting up for the eventual movie hype, so they'll have the classic Cap, Thor and Iron Man combo, along with a few old favourites by 2011, if not immediately (like Hawkeye back in his original duds).

The flagship book will launch as 'Avengers' written by Bendis, but concentrating on bigger stuff instead of street level action. I don't necessarily think Bendis would be right for the book, but they won't eject him now.

Slott will write the second tier book, maybe still called Mighty Avengers. I hope it becomes Avengers West Coast!

That could be it. And should be, really.

Troy Wall
01-16-2010, 06:27 PM
The flagship book will launch as 'Avengers' written by Bendis, but concentrating on bigger stuff instead of street level action. I don't necessarily think Bendis would be right for the book, but they won't eject him now.

Without a doubt. Any guess as to who the artist will be?

Ian Ascher
01-16-2010, 06:36 PM
Didnt one of the Kuberts leave DC?

If he did it might make for a great book but neither of them can do more than three to six issues a year.

Maybe Immomen will stay on.

HaphazardJoy
01-16-2010, 06:37 PM
This is exactly the kind of thing I've been talking about, are you reading this Ascher?

This might all come off great, but they're ending Mighty Avengers... a book which has been going on with references to Dark Reign, but stories that are pretty independent of outside continuity. Now, because of the event for this quarter, a book I've been enjoying is just stopping.

Biofungus
01-16-2010, 07:18 PM
The article says New Avengers, Mighty Avengers, Dark Avengers, and Avengers: The Initiative are ending. Isn't there still Young Avengers?

And, it never said they wouldn't be starting just a singular Avengers book the next month, just that all the books spawned by recent Avengers events (Disassembled, Civil War) are ending.

Troy Wall
01-16-2010, 08:13 PM
Isn't there still Young Avengers?

Nah, there has only been one "proper" Young Avengers series, by Heinberg and Cheung, from like '04-'05. Since then Marvel has released only a few half-hearted cross-over mini's, usually featuring Young Avengers & the Runaways, that tied into major events (Civil War, Secret Invasion). It ran about 12 issues.

For some reason, all the usual suspects at Marvel (creators and editorial) continue to say they wish to hold off on a second volume of Young Avengers until Heinberg has the time to write it. Shame, this line wide relaunch that's approaching would be the perfect time for a new Young Avengers ongoing to take off.

Deadfish07
01-16-2010, 11:17 PM
Seems like they will bring back a more classic line-up of Avengers. Original Cap, Thor, Iron Man and I'd imagine some of the Mighty Avengers like Wasp and Quicksilver. Plus I say that Hawkeye retakes his costume and name.

But considering how popular the New style of Avengers were, I would guess there would be something for a few of those characters. Maybe West Coast Avengers, so they stop pretending that Wolverine travel from Utopia to NY at will. Cage, Iron Fist, Spider-woman, Echo. Spider-man will remain in NY, can't take Spidey out of New York.

Whatever's left of the Dark Avengers will go to the Thunderbolts.

And I can see the Initiative turning into a new New Warriors title. Except this time with familiar names and not unrecognizable ex-mutants.

Ian Ascher
01-16-2010, 11:34 PM
This is exactly the kind of thing I've been talking about, are you reading this Ascher?

This might all come off great, but they're ending Mighty Avengers... a book which has been going on with references to Dark Reign, but stories that are pretty independent of outside continuity. Now, because of the event for this quarter, a book I've been enjoying is just stopping.


While Mighty Avengers as we know it may not return after this, I agree with Bio and have a feeling we'll still have more than one Avengers book when the line relaunches.

We shall see....

HaphazardJoy
01-17-2010, 05:59 AM
Well, yes, I don't imagine we'll see only one Avenger book. I can't imagine there'd be less than three books in a year's time, but my point is, and especially since books do this with regularity anyway, why does every book need to get taken over or put on hold by an event? This is more crossover conversation from the Event book thread.

In THIS case, it does make more sense. They're revamping the whole franchise, hopefully with a line-up with the classics at the core and going back to basics in the context of current continuity. Fine. But as an example, Mighty Avengers is the kind of book that could be canon but not in issue-to-issue sync with other ongoing continuity, and so could continue mostly unpreempted by an event.

Ian Ascher
01-17-2010, 08:06 AM
Dont forget....

Mighty Avengers was created as the result of an Event book (Civil War) and was changed/altered/revamped as the result of an Event book (Secret Invasion). It doesn't surprise me that an Event book (Siege) alters the status quo once again.

JamieRoberts
01-17-2010, 08:28 AM
I think Marvel's game plan is to revamp books (even the strongest franchise in comics) at regular intervals to keep things fresh. It also allows them to incorporate elements familiar to whatever movie has an effect on the Marvel U at the time. The unfortunate side effect is that there'll be no extended creator runs like in the 80s/90s. Unless it's Bendis.

Ian Ascher
01-17-2010, 08:42 AM
Some quick pics....

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/18863/1095148-siege_ends_the_avengers_20100115002626022_super.jp eg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/18863/1095146-siege_ends_the_avengers_picture_3_super.jpeg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/18863/1095147-siege_ends_the_avengers_picture_4_super.jpeg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/18863/1095144-440_heroic_super.jpeg

Biofungus
01-17-2010, 11:22 AM
Is that Clor in the third pic?

Troy Wall
01-17-2010, 03:42 PM
And I can see the Initiative turning into a new New Warriors title. Except this time with familiar names and not unrecognizable ex-mutants.

I read somewhere that Initiative will relaunch as Avengers Academy, still written by Gage.

HaphazardJoy
01-17-2010, 04:28 PM
Is that Clor in the third pic?

Who else could it be? Has to be Clor, far outside chance of Sentry, or it's symbolic/a dream.

Mwynn
01-17-2010, 04:37 PM
Some quick pics....

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/18863/1095148-siege_ends_the_avengers_20100115002626022_super.jp eg




\
Wow Ms. Marvel has a really long neck, or she lost her head.

HaphazardJoy
01-17-2010, 05:00 PM
Wow Ms. Marvel has a really long neck, or she lost her head.

Well, Moonstone IS one of those lame catchall characters when it comes to her powers. Maybe she picked up yet another one. Maybe there's going to be wacky hijinks where everyone starts swapping powers with the Fantastic Four. :yawn:

Eugene Selassie
01-20-2010, 12:49 PM
I got nothing. I just hope someone with respect for the characters can relaunch at some point.

Truer words never spoken.

Eugene Selassie
01-20-2010, 01:00 PM
I read somewhere that Initiative will relaunch as Avengers Academy, still written by Gage.

Thank goodness. This and Mighty Avengers are my only reason for reading.

Eugene Selassie
01-20-2010, 01:23 PM
Whatever's left of the Dark Avengers will go to the Thunderbolts.

And I can see the Initiative turning into a new New Warriors title. Except this time with familiar names and not unrecognizable ex-mutants.


With Avengers Academy coming out, I'd rather see a new New Warriors book with Thrash, Speedball, and a more familiar roster.

Now Thunderbolts...I have grown beyond tired with this book being a blatant rip off of Suicide Squad.

Can this book PLEASE go back to its original incarnation?

JamieRoberts
01-20-2010, 04:30 PM
With Avengers Academy coming out, I'd rather see a new New Warriors book with Thrash, Speedball, and a more familiar roster.

Now Thunderbolts...I have grown beyond tired with this book being a blatant rip off of Suicide Squad.

Can this book PLEASE go back to its original incarnation?
I was an avid reader of Thunderbolts when Busiek was writing it, but I've read them since and it's hard for me to get past all the exposition. I guess I'm just so used to the modern style. That said, do you mean the same characters on the run, or new characters with the same theme of redemption and/or subterfuge?

Eugene Selassie
01-20-2010, 06:01 PM
I was an avid reader of Thunderbolts when Busiek was writing it, but I've read them since and it's hard for me to get past all the exposition. I guess I'm just so used to the modern style. That said, do you mean the same characters on the run, or new characters with the same theme of redemption and/or subterfuge?

I mean concept and characters.

Of course I know modern storytelling sensibilities will need to come into play, but I mean the concept of villains being seduced by the side of good and redemption.

I wouldn't mind Eddie Brock reclaiming the symbiote and trying to reform, or Juggernaut on the team...

As long as we get Abe, Melissa, Eric AND Karla back as well.

Tired of them being government flunkies or covert ops team. It's been done before and done better (Suicide Squad).

ronin7
01-21-2010, 02:19 PM
I mean concept and characters.

Of course I know modern storytelling sensibilities will need to come into play, but I mean the concept of villains being seduced by the side of good and redemption.

I wouldn't mind Eddie Brock reclaiming the symbiote and trying to reform, or Juggernaut on the team...

As long as we get Abe, Melissa, Eric AND Karla back as well.

Tired of them being government flunkies or covert ops team. It's been done before and done better (Suicide Squad).


Eddie Brock isn't interested in altrusim, he's motivated by his own self interest - by redeeming his tarnished self image, which he believes Spider-Man ruined. Going back to the Lethal Protector crap would be a huge step backwards.

As for Juggernaut, Cain has been severely underutilized since being depowered and made a good guy. He needs to go back to his roots and become an unstoppable force again. I'd love to see him curbstomp the Avengers including Sentry, and setting up a rematch down the line.

-Mick

Biofungus
01-21-2010, 05:05 PM
Who else could it be? Has to be Clor, far outside chance of Sentry, or it's symbolic/a dream.
Well, Clor's been MIA for most of this Dark Reign stuff (even though he would have been useful to Osborne, I'm sure), and I doubt Reed Richards would have a hand in bringing it back 'online'...

Biofungus
01-21-2010, 05:06 PM
I wouldn't mind Eddie Brock reclaiming the symbiote and trying to reform

Not to sidestep the conversation, but what happened to the Anti-Venom symbiote?

HaphazardJoy
01-21-2010, 10:44 PM
As for Juggernaut, Cain has been severely underutilized since being depowered and made a good guy. He needs to go back to his roots and become an unstoppable force again. I'd love to see him curbstomp the Avengers including Sentry, and setting up a rematch down the line.

Well, he's definitely been underutilised, but he has been repowered and self-motivated again, as of World War Hulk. Still, at his strongest he has nothing on Sentry.

BOOGIE
01-27-2010, 01:27 AM
Well, he's definitely been underutilised, but he has been repowered and self-motivated again, as of World War Hulk. Still, at his strongest he has nothing on Sentry.
Are you serious? WWHulk couldnt even beat Juggs, but he whupped Sentry's ass! Jugg would beat the shit out of Sentry

HaphazardJoy
01-27-2010, 02:01 AM
Are you serious? WWHulk couldnt even beat Juggs, but he whupped Sentry's ass! Jugg would beat the shit out of Sentry

Juggernaut principal trait is his indestructibility. Yes, he survived a fight with the Hulk, with them both at near-peak levels of power, but he didn't win. He didn't lose per se, but he certainly didn't win by a long shot. He's not strong enough to actually do real harm to a god-like force like the Hulk. Plus, didn't the Hulk outsmart Juggs in that mini? That says something.

It's debatable as to levels of strength, but I've rarely seen Juggernaut show the kind of strength that Hulk has. Again, durability is one thing, Juggernaut is undoubtedly one of the toughest characters, but even there, Sentry is well, you know, immortal. So let me be generous from my perspective and let's just say that Juggernaut is equal to Sentry in terms physical strength. Okay, now he needs to be able to attack Sentry... who can fly... and move close to, if not exceeding, the speed of light. How exactly would Juggernaut even land a punch?

Besides that, try this scenario: Juggernaut threatens Sentry, Sentry discorporates Juggernaut and reconstructs him as... oh, let's say a potted fern.

So, MAYBE if Sentry agreed to straight-up physical fight, not use any of his energy or matter manipulation powers, and from there he promised to intentionally slow himself down to Juggernaut's level (basically peak human speed, but not maneuverability). Yeah, MAYBE then he could beat Sentry.

Troy Wall
01-27-2010, 02:26 AM
Well, Clor's been MIA for most of this Dark Reign stuff (even though he would have been useful to Osborne, I'm sure), and I doubt Reed Richards would have a hand in bringing it back 'online'...

Clor was accidentally reactived in Avengers: Initiative. I forgot how...I think maybe that crazy ex-Nazi scientist that for some strange reason works with the Initiative.

Anyway, it happened early on in Dark Reign, and I forgot who it was Clor threw down with. Maybe the Gauntlet.

BOOGIE
01-27-2010, 03:24 AM
Juggernaut principal trait is his indestructibility. Yes, he survived a fight with the Hulk, with them both at near-peak levels of power, but he didn't win. He didn't lose per se, but he certainly didn't win by a long shot. He's not strong enough to actually do real harm to a god-like force like the Hulk. Plus, didn't the Hulk outsmart Juggs in that mini? That says something.

It's debatable as to levels of strength, but I've rarely seen Juggernaut show the kind of strength that Hulk has. Again, durability is one thing, Juggernaut is undoubtedly one of the toughest characters, but even there, Sentry is well, you know, immortal. So let me be generous from my perspective and let's just say that Juggernaut is equal to Sentry in terms physical strength. Okay, now he needs to be able to attack Sentry... who can fly... and move close to, if not exceeding, the speed of light. How exactly would Juggernaut even land a punch?

Besides that, try this scenario: Juggernaut threatens Sentry, Sentry discorporates Juggernaut and reconstructs him as... oh, let's say a potted fern.

So, MAYBE if Sentry agreed to straight-up physical fight, not use any of his energy or matter manipulation powers, and from there he promised to intentionally slow himself down to Juggernaut's level (basically peak human speed, but not maneuverability). Yeah, MAYBE then he could beat Sentry.
The only way Sentry can beat Juggernaut is by using his superspeed and throw him off the Earth. Thor's Godblast couldnt even slow the Juggernaut down and the Godblast can damage a Celestrial, so I doubt if Sentry can even faze Jugg with his molecules power. As for Juggs and the Hulk, when Juggs first encountered the Hulk, he broke the hulks neck..hell, the Hulk has never beat the Juggernaut on a one on one..they are evenly matched, even if the Hulk is at his angriest because Juggernaut strength is unlimited. Back to Sentry vs. Juggs, hell Juggs is immortal and were talking about a guy that is so strong, he punched his thru dimensions, something Sentry or Hulk has not done

HaphazardJoy
01-27-2010, 03:47 AM
A) Juggernaut is not immortal. He is nearly indestructible but can be harmed and potentially killed. Furthermore, his indestructibility isn't even inherent, it can be disrupted. Sentry has literally been physically destroyed, and he restored himself completely.

B) You're right, Sentry's molecular powers wouldn't faze Juggernaut, he wouldn't be able to be fazed by matter of no longer bodily existing if Sentry so chose it. Sentry could literally make him not exist any more. His being able to shape, build, or erase the material world isn't something Juggernaut could just brush off because he's so tuff. We're talking the ability to shape reality with a potency, though not skill, that approaches the abilities of Franklin Richards, Molecule Man, and Scarlet Witch.

BOOGIE
01-27-2010, 04:11 AM
A) Juggernaut is not immortal. He is nearly indestructible but can be harmed and potentially killed. Furthermore, his indestructibility isn't even inherent, it can be disrupted. Sentry has literally been physically destroyed, and he restored himself completely.

B) You're right, Sentry's molecular powers wouldn't faze Juggernaut, he wouldn't be able to be fazed by matter of no longer bodily existing if Sentry so chose it. Sentry could literally make him not exist any more. His being able to shape, build, or erase the material world isn't something Juggernaut could just brush off because he's so tuff. We're talking the ability to shape reality with a potency, though not skill, that approaches the abilities of Franklin Richards, Molecule Man, and Scarlet Witch.
A) Juggernaut doesnt breathe, eat, drink, or shit , same as Sentry, so that makes him immortal. He can be hurt true, but he cant be killed. He had his flesh blast off by energy and he still was alive as a skeleton and still kept going; he has the Gem ripped out of his body and still was alive, so he pretty much is immortal in a sense.

B) Sentry cant control reality, he just found out he had molecule manipulation powers (and how he beat the molecule man whom beat the beyonder is another debate altogether) and even if he could alter the reality around Juggernaut, that wouldnt even be considered a fight, more like a punk move because he's advoiding confrontation.

HaphazardJoy
01-27-2010, 04:17 AM
::sigh::
I'm done. Something like your beloved Juggernaut, I sense that, once you start moving using your power of fanboy, you could never concede a single point, even if it was blatantly obvious and starring you in the face, even if I proved you wrong with the power of a million exploding suns.

BOOGIE
01-27-2010, 04:26 AM
::sigh::
I'm done. Something like your beloved Juggernaut, I sense that, once you start moving using your power of fanboy, you could never concede a single point, even if it was blatantly obvious and starring you in the face.
Dude, Sentry just sucks. Theres such thing as being too powerful and some of the writers at Marvel dont know what to do with these powerful characters, so they make them sucky by not letting them "live" up to their true potential. Juggs fall in that rank too. I would love to see Jugg or Sentry go against characters like The Champion Of the Universe or Gladiator, but they get dumbdown. Another powerful character that is dumbdown is Molecule Man, a dude that is litterally a god...why is he fighting the Dark Avengers? He should be exploring space somewhere...

HaphazardJoy
01-27-2010, 04:47 AM
Yeah, I agree generally speaking. It doesn't really bear direct relevance to this debate, but I don't like invincible characters, they bore me. That's like Metabarons. My friend loved them at first and then quickly lost interest when he realised there was nothing personal at stake for these characters.

I'll absolutely give you this. IF Juggernaut was able to be a perfect vessel for Cytorak, he would be one of the strongest characters in the 616, and fully capable of standing toe-to-toe with Sentry or the other God-likes, but he's still not. He still hasn't displayed many of the abilities and upper level power that being the avatar can grant him.

BOOGIE
01-27-2010, 04:53 AM
Yeah, I agree generally speaking. It doesn't really bear direct relevance to this debate, but I don't like invincible characters, they bore me. That's like Metabarons. My friend loved them at first and then quickly lost interest when he realised there was nothing personal at stake for these characters.

I'll absolutely give you this. IF Juggernaut was able to be a perfect vessel for Cytorak, he would be one of the strongest characters in the 616, and fully capable of standing toe-to-toe with Sentry or the other God-likes, but he's still not. He still hasn't displayed many of the abilities and upper level power that being the avatar can grant him.
I agree with that.

Eugene Selassie
01-27-2010, 01:23 PM
I H-A-T-E the Sentry and how he has been written last 5-6 years...hasn't been handled well since Jenkins was writing him.

BUT...seriously, Juggernaut is one of my fav villains...he has NO chance against the Sentry.

As apparent when he went against the other avatars (Avengers vol 3 #24-25) that he can't even tap a fraction of the Cyttorak power.

You can't have a fight where this person CAN do something versus this person HAVING THE POTENTIAL to do something.

You might have the potential to run me through with a broadsword, but if I have a crossbow in my hand and am 50 ft away, fight over.

HaphazardJoy
01-27-2010, 03:21 PM
Yeah, as stated around WWH time, Juggie seem to have finally embraced being a true avatar, but he hasn't been shown to be any more powerful YET.

Biofungus
01-27-2010, 03:33 PM
Hulk was also a lot more pissed when he fought Sentry in WWH than when he and Juggernaught tussled.

BOOGIE
01-27-2010, 04:11 PM
I H-A-T-E the Sentry and how he has been written last 5-6 years...hasn't been handled well since Jenkins was writing him.

BUT...seriously, Juggernaut is one of my fav villains...he has NO chance against the Sentry.

As apparent when he went against the other avatars (Avengers vol 3 #24-25) that he can't even tap a fraction of the Cyttorak power.

You can't have a fight where this person CAN do something versus this person HAVING THE POTENTIAL to do something.

You might have the potential to run me through with a broadsword, but if I have a crossbow in my hand and am 50 ft away, fight over.
What?!? Sentry would get destroyed by Juggernaut. Hell, Juggernaut doesnt even use half his powers and still run over the most powerful of superheros.

Eugene Selassie
01-27-2010, 04:25 PM
What?!? Sentry would get destroyed by Juggernaut. Hell, Juggernaut doesnt even use half his powers and still run over the most powerful of superheros.

Bro, you seriously need to take your personal feelings out of the equation, read back issues of both characters' biggest fights.

Sometimes personal preference clouds judgement...it happens to us all every now and then.

HaphazardJoy
01-27-2010, 04:38 PM
Million.
Exploding.
Suns.

BOOGIE
01-27-2010, 05:49 PM
Bro, you seriously need to take your personal feelings out of the equation, read back issues of both characters' biggest fights.

Sometimes personal preference clouds judgement...it happens to us all every now and then.
I am refering to back issues of previous fights. I dont think he can beat Juggernaut in a staight up fist fight. When Sentry fought WWHulk, he got tired, Juggernaugt does not get tired. Even if Sentry matched Juggs in raw strength and power, that factor alone would prove Juggernaut victorious. As I said before, The only way Sentry would win is if he used his super speed to throw juggernaut off the planet, and thats if Juggs is not in motion.

HaphazardJoy
01-27-2010, 05:55 PM
I love how every rationalisation made ignores previously presented facts.

BOOGIE
01-27-2010, 06:47 PM
I love how every rationalisation made ignores previously presented facts.
What facts? The dude has the power of a million exploding suns...if he's that powerful, then he should be fighting the Phoenix Force or Thanos or someone of that caliber...I still dont think he could beat Juggs, though. I would love to see that fight if done right. I'll tell another fight I would love to see and thats Sentry vs. the Red Hulk

Mwynn
01-27-2010, 06:52 PM
Didn't Gladiator and Post toss Juggernaut across the planet?

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/4/36796-3092-41143-1-uncanny-x-men-the_super.jpg

Biofungus
01-27-2010, 07:09 PM
I don't know if Post did it, I thought Onslaught did it himself? And it wasn't across the planet. It was from Canada to New Jersey. Sheesh... :rolleyes:


:laugh:

Mwynn
01-27-2010, 07:14 PM
I don't know if Post did it, I thought Onslaught did it himself? And it wasn't across the planet. It was from Canada to New Jersey. Sheesh... :rolleyes:


:laugh:
That is why the sentence ends in a ?

BOOGIE
01-27-2010, 07:37 PM
Didn't Gladiator and Post toss Juggernaut across the planet?

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/4/36796-3092-41143-1-uncanny-x-men-the_super.jpg
Uhh no. That was Onslaught, whom had the combine power of Magneto, Prof.X, Nate Grey and Franklin Richards. Hell, Onslaught could probably whup Juggernaut and Sentry and the Gladiator's ass at the same time.

Eugene Selassie
01-27-2010, 07:55 PM
Uhh no. That was Onslaught, whom had the combine power of Magneto, Prof.X, Nate Grey and Franklin Richards. Hell, Onslaught could probably whup Juggernaut and Sentry and the Gladiator's ass at the same time.

Doubtful.
And this is from someone that HATES the Sentry.

JamieRoberts
01-27-2010, 08:24 PM
"Who'd win in a fight between...?" Jesus, are we really still talking about this?

Biofungus
01-27-2010, 08:34 PM
Uhh no. That was Onslaught, whom had the combine power of Magneto, Prof.X, Nate Grey and Franklin Richards. Hell, Onslaught could probably whup Juggernaut and Sentry and the Gladiator's ass at the same time.
It was before Onslaught was even shown. He only had the power of Magneto and Xavier at that time.

Biofungus
01-27-2010, 08:35 PM
Doubtful.
And this is from someone that HATES the Sentry.
Actually, he could, because both Sentry and Gladiator are prone to telepathic assault/manipulation, which Onslaught could do just fine.

HaphazardJoy
01-27-2010, 09:39 PM
Yeah, if we're not limiting to physical ability, there's actually a lot of people who could take out Sentry. Only risk with tampering with his mind is the chance that The Void takes over, in which case you lose even more hardcore.