Flatting

[Jasen Smith]

I have seen a lot of new colorists who kinda skip on an important step in coloring. I don't see many videos about flatting and the settings are very important in photoshop. I maded these videos to show you how I do it, there are several ways but the most important thing is to make sure to have anti-aliasing turned off. NEVER use the BRUSH to fill in small parts only the pencil tool.

I skipped video 3, for one it didn't show much more than video 2 and 4 and I couldn't cut it for some reason.

Here is a link to them.
Flatting (http://jasenstation.blogspot.com/2009/10/flatting_23.html)

[L Jamal]

For my Warmageddon projects, I very rarely do flats unless I'm unsure about what I want the project to look. However, when I do flats, it's all about separating elements as fast as possible.

My flat technique is to start large and then work smaller. For the Elektra piece, I would have filled in the whole area with one color. Then I would have filled the entire defined rectangle with another color. Next, I would have use a another color on the Hand figures and then filled the Elektra figure. Once I had all the figures one tone, then I go in and separate details.

That's a fairly simple image, so flatting it should have taken maybe 15 minutes.

[Jasen Smith]

I can send you the line art to separate it and make a video of it.
In this video I wasn't going for speed just showing you different ways to do it.
It is a simple image, I figured, I'd use a simple image but the different ways that you can do it.

Some people flatten with the brush tool which is a no no.
Some people don't know how to set up their tools which is also what I was showing.

How about a challenge?
15 minutes to flatten an image, record it, no need for audio commentary.
We can post it here.

[L Jamal]

No video capabilities on my production machine. I keep it free of everything, but what I need on it.

Send it on and I'll see how long it takes me. There aren't really any tricks to flatting. You build speed through practice. My first image was a Tellos image simpler than this and it took me 3 hours to flat.

[Jasen Smith]

HAHAH, there aren't tricks to it no, but knowing HOW to do it is the key. You are right, you learn through practice and during that practice you learn the tools.

Now, what you said, work from biggest to smallest. Yes, this way is the way 90% of people will do it.
BUT you don't have to go in and use the lasso tool for every selection, it slows you down and when flatting you want speed.
The pages I did before this one took 7 minutes to flatten and it had more selections, I did this to tell people how to do it. Not show them how fast I can be.

I'd love to challenge you, but I have to see it to believe it, and without the software, COUGH (http://download.cnet.com/CamStudio/3000-13633_4-10067101.html) then the challenge can't be proven.

To each his own, I was a freelance flatter for six years and colorist at the time as well. I hit the deadlines, may have lost some sleep when I was starting out but i learned a lot.

Later, after I stopped flatting, too many people don't pay, I just played around with things and learned about some different tools.

This is just a demonstration on flatting.
Make a tutorial on creating sound FX :har:

[L Jamal]

I think I flatted for Val Staples, Chris Blythe and occasionally for John Rauch for about a year. It was just too much work for too little money. I don't see how any one can do it for too long because even at my fastest, I was earning near minimum wage and I was being paid more than flatters are now.

Now there are plugins that can do a lot of the flatting grunt work. Personally, I don't flat my own work at all unless it's a cover or pin-up. With sequentials, I have a good idea where I'm headed and don't tend to make very many changes.

As a letter, I hate SFX. With my project, I generally pick one SFX font and stick with it for most everything. For E and O (http://warmageddon.com/comic.asp?storyID=8&page=1) and Thomas (http://warmageddon.com/comic.asp?storyID=10&page=1) SFX font of choice is Blambot's Zooom. Comicraft has the best SFX tutorials.

[Crestmere]

What exactly is the difference between flatting and coloring?

[L Jamal]

Flatting is basically separating the different sections of the the image, so that the colorist can easily select the shape later.

Flatters generally don't have to worry about colors or color schemes. When I was flatting, I would just randomly select colors, so when I finished you could have characters with purple skin.

[HaphazardJoy]

Yeah, I often use a flat channel rather than a flat layer when I'm working a large, memory intensive piece. Since that means my flats are converted to greyscale anyway, I usually stick to one basic colour and just use markedly different levels of darkness to make sure that each of the areas in my flats channel has its own clear value and avoid ending up with multiple areas with similar values so I don't have any issues with selecting the exact non-contiguous areas that I want.

When you've already begun rendering an area while colouring, there's no longer an easy way to select that whole area unless you've made a flat channel. Say, for example, you went through and nicely rendered all the shadows on a character's bare skin areas but had to shut down and leave the project for later. When you got back to the project, if you wanted to select all of the skin areas again, if you didn't have flats to make selections from, you would have to use the lasso and hand select that area all over again. When it's a complex shape, even a pro would save a bit of time by having the flat, and when you're a rank amateur like me, it saves a many many minutes.

I've noticed a lot of paint-over style artists don't use flats, but then they're working with a more traditional approach and a much more fine tuned output.

[Jasen Smith]

When you've already begun rendering an area while colouring, there's no longer an easy way to select that whole area unless you've made a flat channel. Say, for example, you went through and nicely rendered all the shadows on a character's bare skin areas but had to shut down and leave the project for later. When you got back to the project, if you wanted to select all of the skin areas again, if you didn't have flats to make selections from, you would have to use the lasso and hand select that area all over again. When it's a complex shape, even a pro would save a bit of time by having the flat, and when you're a rank amateur like me, it saves a many many minutes.

Actually, if you already have it selected, right click and choose save selection.
close come back, then right click load selection. You can still load it even after you have started rendering.

(Using only any selection tool)

[HaphazardJoy]

I've never used that feature before. Does it allow you to save multiple selections? In any case I suppose it's just as easy to do the flats if you're going to be back and forth a lot. I wish I could take some lessons in digital painting, I don't have the formal background and haven't spent enough time colouring to branch out naturally. There's big gaps in my skills and knowledge, and I have too many interests and too little drive, so I've never devoted fully to one arena.

[Jasen Smith]

Yes, you can save multiple selections.
In photoshop there is about 3 ways to do the same thing.
It all depends on how you want to do it.

I have three different actions setup to separate the line art.
My most preferred is to put it on the layers but that's just how I was first taught and preferred that method. I can still color the lineart blur it, blend it whatever that you can on a channel.

I also have one that puts the lineart on multiply instead. I only use it for simple images that don't require me to modify the lineart.

Then one that place it in a channel.

They all get the image print ready first in the same way but taking out any color and making it bitmap, then converts it back to RGB.

Yes I work in RGB instead of CMYK. I like RGB and since my color palettes are already set to CMYK I have no color variance.

[DJ Keawekane]

I have a question.

In the first video when you put the first background color in you use the wand tool and select all the outside parts of Electra. After that when it doesn't select everything nicely you said just "deselect" and then there's some tool that lets you outline where you want the wand to go around.

What tool is that? In the video you click something but it's not clear what you clicked on.

Anyways thanks for posting this I'm trying to learn how to flat my own stuff and videos like this really help out. I appreciate the time you took to make the video and explain stuff.

[Jasen Smith]

It's the polygonal lasso tool.
If you hold the ATL key and go around the part you want to deselect, it will remove the unwanted selection.

Thanks for the kind words.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Quick example:

A flat panel.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/550245/gallery/Zeu/color2.jpg

A colored panel.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/550245/gallery/Zeu/color1.jpg

Good LORD, look at that nose! :blink:
Is that how I drew them back then?
Why nobody ever said anything?!

[dmh_3000]

Quick example:

Good LORD, look at that nose! :blink:
Is that how I drew them back then?
Why nobody ever said anything?!
Don't worry, you are much better than I am, and probably a lot of other people. And for me, that's after nearly five years of practice and trying numerous tutorials.

[Barri "Clubber" La]

So what program do you use for colouring?

I think I could get into the flatting to help my projects along.

[Jasen Smith]

Photoshop though some I hear use Illustrator.
I prefer Photoshop just because I'm used to it.

[tinkfan83]

I'd love to challenge you, but I have to see it to believe it, and without the software, COUGH (http://download.cnet.com/CamStudio/3000-13633_4-10067101.html) then the challenge can't be proven.


Hey I'll take your 15 minute flatting challenge if you send me the line art. :) Been dabbling in doing tutorials myself so I have the software and all that jazz. Not sure If I can do it in less than 15 min, but I can try. I have a bit of a different method than you. So it could be cool to compare the two.

[Jasen Smith]

Ok, but lets do a different image instead, I dont want to reflat something I already flattened. Here's a link to one we can do, http://www.sofos.com/blog/invincible42coverbig.jpg. I wouldn't make it a 15 minute challenge but maybe more like the fastest time challenge.

We can post it here. :)

Good luck and can't wait to see who wins. :)

[tinkfan83]

Ok, but lets do a different image instead, I dont want to reflat something I already flattened. Here's a link to one we can do, http://www.sofos.com/blog/invincible42coverbig.jpg. I wouldn't make it a 15 minute challenge but maybe more like the fastest time challenge.

We can post it here. :)

Good luck and can't wait to see who wins. :)

Cool... sounds good to me. ^_^

[tinkfan83]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vsatoMlqjg

Here's mine.... 6 minutes.

[Jasen Smith]

NICE!!
I can't see it work right now but I will check it out when I get home tonight at 2am :P
I'll try to post up tomorrow when I can.

[L Jamal]

For the Invincible one, I would fileld the background on a separate layer. Then on the lineart area, I would have selected the area outside the figure and then between the legs. Then reversed the selection (so on thefigure was selected). Then contracted the selection by 2 pixels and filled the selected area on the flats layer.

Then you just have the figure on the background and can get to the other details easily. That should allow you the flat the entire with around 10 more selections.

[Jasen Smith]

If you change your wand over to use all layers youd be doing the same thing without switching layers. :)

[tinkfan83]

Yeah I realize that I could have used the wand to select the background, but didn't want to deviate from my normal method. Since I knew it wouldn't take that long anyway. A lot of the time I am flatting pencils or ink washed art and you don't have the luxury of using the wand. So I try not to make a habit of using it that much.

So I'll most likely come in second here time wise because of it. lol

It's good to know the different methods everyone uses. This is a very useful thread.

[Jasen Smith]

Well, I won't say that any method is better than the other.
If flatting an ink wash or pencils, the wand will not work. :P

The thing about flatting is that it's not about what you do to flat the page but how fast you are at doing it. Time is money.
If you can use all the tools in Photoshop and use them to your advantage then you can flatten.
I once flattened 16 pages of Wheel of Time for Kieran Oats that were incredibly detailed with tons of small selections and I was still spending about 4-6 hours per page on them using every tool I could. I had to complete them all in a week I believe giving him 3-4 pages a day...it was brutal but I got them all done.

Again flatting isn't about using a special method it's more about using the right tools for what's needed the fastest way possible.

[Jasen Smith]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pumQyHX5_TA

2:51

Good game my friend...now what video capturing software you using?

[tinkfan83]

Nice! :)

Yeah, it is great to know all of the tricks and different methods for flatting. I think the worst page I ever flatted I did about a month ago. It was a double page spread a mixture of ink wash and pencils and had buildings and billboards everywhere. Took me probably 8 to 10 hours. I stopped timing after a while. I was not amused. lol

Oh and I use camstudio for video capture.

[L Jamal]

if you have a set of swatches set up, you can save time selecting colors.
You lose 10 seconds or so each time you select a new color.

[Jasen Smith]

Yea, I've been using my own swatches for a while but lately for some reason I just kinda stopped.

[Brian Dyck]

Hey everybody.

I realize this thread is pretty old, but I'd like to try my hand at the flatting challenge. Only problem is I can't find a decent res copy of the Invincible image. Anybody still have it (or know where to find it)?

Both Jasen and tink's flatting vids have helped me learn a lot, so thanks very much for those.

Cheers.

[Jasen Smith]

I've tried looking for it on my computer and on Google but that image was burned by the artist. I'm serious, he lit a fire and threw a lot of his art in the flames.

[Biofungus]

Ha! Yeah, Ryan pissed off (and on) a lot of people with that 'burning the artwork' incident.

[Brian Dyck]

I've tried looking for it on my computer and on Google but that image was burned by the artist. I'm serious, he lit a fire and threw a lot of his art in the flames.


Appreciate your looking Jasen. Posted here more hoping that tinkfan may still have it.

Cheers.

[tinkfan83]

Oops, totally didn't see this. I looked in my files as well and can't find it. I might not have actually ever saved it. If I recall correctly this wasn't a hi-resolution image to begin with.

[Brian Dyck]

No worries, Tink. Thanks for checking. I found a low-res image that I'll try to beef up and work with. I'll post a link to my results when I get around to doing it.