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View Full Version : How Millar's FF/1985/Old Man Logan Intersect


Troy Wall
07-05-2009, 03:56 AM
Alrighty, so a couple of years ago when Mark Millar's new slate of projects were announced as Fantastic Four, 1985 and Wolverine: Old Man Logan, Millar stated in several interviews that by the time they were finished we would see that they were all in fact interconnected.

And I've by God been waiting, because I'm a big fan of Millars. And I've noticed a couple of other posters here ask about how the three series connect in the past few months.

Well, in this week's issue of Fantastic Four, the penultimate conclusion to Millar's 'Masters of Doom' arc, we got the answers. Here's how it breaks down:

MARVEL 1985: Clyde Wyncham was this reality's sole mutant. He caused this world and one very similar to Earth 616 to converge, allowing many classic Marvel villains to cross over and cause trouble. When the Marvel heroes were alerted by a little boy (which the series focused on), they too crossed over and commenced to whooping super villain arse. In the aftermath, the heroes decided to take Clyde Wyncham back with them to their reality since it appeared he truly belonged there. Clyde suffered brain damage as a result of his merging the two realities.

WOLVERINE: OLD MAN LOGAN: All you need to know is that this story took place in the future, also in a reality highly similar to Earth 616. All the world's super villains came together and defeated the heroes. Post-apocalyptic hoo-rah.

FANTASTIC FOUR: Okay, ready to see how the three series intersect? The Marquis of Death was introduced by Millar as a reality hopping maniac who loves only death and destruction. He's referred to as the master of Doom because he trained Victor after he crossed over to the 616 many years ago.

It was revealed that the Marquis of Death is actually Clyde Wyncham from Marvel 1985. Well, to be technical, the Marquis of Death is Clyde Wyncham from an alternate Marvel 1985 timeline. One in which Clyde was kept in the Baxter Building after being brought "home" by the heroes, where upon he was outfitted with tech by Reed Richards that kept him in a state of unconsciousness, experiencing only pleasant dreams.

This reality also featured the future calamity of super villains uniting and destroying the heroes, as seen in Old Man Logan. When the FF's foes invaded the Baxter Building, they accidentally awoke Clyde Wyncham from his slumber. Clyde began killing everyone and starting hopping realities. Over a billion years he evolved into the Marquis of Death and trained the Earth 616 Dr. Doom.

There you go: the overlapping key is Clyde Wyncham from Marvel 1985. It's a pretty damned cool idea in my opinion, and for the life of me I can't understand why Millar would forego scripting chores to a newcomer in the issue that THE MARQUIS' ORIGIN IS REVEALED. If I had gone to all that trouble you'd have to kill me before I let someone else script the last two issues of my run where everything is tied together.

:blink:

Troy Wall
07-05-2009, 04:01 AM
Here's a link (http://www.comicvine.com/the-marquis-of-death/29-59172/) to a page about Clyde Wyncham/Marquis of Death if you want a much more detailed summary.

ronin7
07-05-2009, 10:17 AM
That...actually does sound cool.

How was 1985 btw?

KHudd
07-05-2009, 12:13 PM
This is the reason I wasn't reading DC, the multiverses and different characters confused me and now they are doing this. I love Millar's work, but jeez, this is gonna lose readers to DC. Since they have tried to stop with that crap and try to tell simple but entertaining stories.

ronin7
07-05-2009, 12:30 PM
This is the reason I wasn't reading DC, the multiverses and different characters confused me and now they are doing this. I love Millar's work, but jeez, this is gonna lose readers to DC. Since they have tried to stop with that crap and try to tell simple but entertaining stories.

They, (DC) hasn't stopped with the multiverses, nor are they telling interesting stories unless you consider Judd Winick writing a goof ball Batman a good story. Grant Morrison is doing a limited series called Multiversity, and I'm sure we'll be seeing another Crisis-like event next year, or the year afterwards.

As for the whole connection between FF, 1985, and Old Man Logan; it is a bit convoluted. I prefer Ed Brubaker's expanded tale of Lee/Kirby's origin of Doctor Doom. Nevertheless, I find the Marquis of Death interesting in potential, but lame in execution.

KHudd
07-05-2009, 02:21 PM
They, (DC) hasn't stopped with the multiverses, nor are they telling interesting stories unless you consider Judd Winick writing a goof ball Batman a good story. Grant Morrison is doing a limited series called Multiversity, and I'm sure we'll be seeing another Crisis-like event next year, or the year afterwards.

As for the whole connection between FF, 1985, and Old Man Logan; it is a bit convoluted. I prefer Ed Brubaker's expanded tale of Lee/Kirby's origin of Doctor Doom. Nevertheless, I find the Marquis of Death interesting in potential, but lame in execution.

Flash rebirth isn't a interesting story? Superman: World of New Krypton isn't a interesting story? Batman and Robin isn't a interesting story? I could go on and on with good DC books and these books don't have complicated stories.

ronin7
07-05-2009, 05:00 PM
Flash rebirth isn't a interesting story? Superman: World of New Krypton isn't a interesting story? Batman and Robin isn't a interesting story? I could go on and on with good DC books and these books don't have complicated stories.

Not to me they are not. I grew up with the Byrne Superman and Wally West as the Flash. In the past five to seven years I've caught up on all of the stories I missed from Batman and Robin's early exploits to Superman's death and return to Kyle's journey as Green Lantern. I can safely say that DC has entered creative bankruptcy since they started following Grant Morrison's mantra of high concept ideas, and provocative; edgy plots over characterization, and just plain good stories.

Deadfish07
07-05-2009, 05:42 PM
And here I thought it was all about the future Wolverine and Hulk from the Fantastic Force being tied in with FF and Old Man Logan.

Knuckles
07-05-2009, 05:47 PM
1985 isn't about the Chicago Bears!?

That sucks.

Troy Wall
07-05-2009, 06:24 PM
1985 was surprisingly heartfelt. Good story.

Eugene Selassie
07-06-2009, 11:47 AM
As for the whole connection between FF, 1985, and Old Man Logan; it is a bit convoluted. I prefer Ed Brubaker's expanded tale of Lee/Kirby's origin of Doctor Doom. Nevertheless, I find the Marquis of Death interesting in potential, but lame in execution.

Couldn't agree more.

And Bru's Doom tale was amazing.

WilliamStormeSmith
07-06-2009, 02:20 PM
I agree the execution was flawed, very weak connection. But I give Millar a great deal of credit for pushing an idea like this one. I've read all 3 series completely enjoyed all 3, but Clyde Wickham it feels kinds of silly, not very cool. But I really enjoyed the last issue of FF w/ the Marquis tossing Doom into the past like a piece of trash.

ronin7
07-06-2009, 03:16 PM
I agree the execution was flawed, very weak connection. But I give Millar a great deal of credit for pushing an idea like this one. I've read all 3 series completely enjoyed all 3, but Clyde Wickham it feels kinds of silly, not very cool. But I really enjoyed the last issue of FF w/ the Marquis tossing Doom into the past like a piece of trash.


The very same Doctor Doom who stole Galactus, The Beyonder, and Silver Surfer's powers. There's no way the Marquis could have caught Doom flat footed. Especially, when Doctor Doom has shown he's perhaps the most resourceful villain ever. Hell, he locked Reed in his armor, and it drove him insane to where he started thinking like Doom.

I wouldn't be surprised if Doom switched minds with the Marquis using a powerful mystic totem in his possession, or some high tech cosmically aligned device.

Eugene Selassie
07-06-2009, 06:52 PM
The very same Doctor Doom who stole Galactus, The Beyonder, and Silver Surfer's powers. There's no way the Marquis could have caught Doom flat footed. Especially, when Doctor Doom has shown he's perhaps the most resourceful villain ever. Hell, he locked Reed in his armor, and it drove him insane to where he started thinking like Doom.

I wouldn't be surprised if Doom switched minds with the Marquis using a powerful mystic totem in his possession, or some high tech cosmically aligned device.

I agree once again ronin (weird, ain't it? :har: )

Millar has GREAT ideas...he just has a penchant for having characters act out of character to get the pieces on the board moving as far as his plots are concerned (Steve Rogers, Peter Parker, Tony Stark, Susan Richards, Reed Richards, Victor von Doom)

I think that Doom really would've somehow been ready, given his history and villains/heroes/entities that he has defeated.

DOOM DOESN'T GET CAUGHT FLAT FOOTED!

Ian Ascher
07-07-2009, 05:29 PM
Cool concept but it took too long to publish and too many issues to get to it for me to really get into the whole arc/idea of it.

Old Man Logan was fun. We knew it was an alt. future/What If...? type story to begin with.

Fantastic Four was good but not a solid home run each and every issue.

1985 just never grabbed my intrest and i've never even flipped through the issues.

Moonrider
07-07-2009, 09:36 PM
Did Old Man Logan end? I think it skipped a few issues before the conclusion but I missed the final issue if it's already out.

JasonM
07-08-2009, 12:31 PM
I think they said postponed until Sept.

Eugene Selassie
07-08-2009, 03:24 PM
Yeah. Not that I loved the story, but wanted to see the conclusion and DEFINITELY don't want to see a periodical have to be published out of order because of delays.

I know people like consistant art on a story, but I've gotten to the point where I don't care about fill in art anymore. I'd rather have a fill in than to wait 9-10 months on a 6 part story.

There are too many good books that ship WITHOUT delays that could get my money.

Mark Bertolini
07-08-2009, 04:49 PM
Did Old Man Logan end? I think it skipped a few issues before the conclusion but I missed the final issue if it's already out.


There's going to be a Giant-Size final issue, similar to what Marvel did with Whedon/Cassaday's Astonishing X-Men book.

JasonM
07-08-2009, 05:24 PM
I know people like consistant art on a story, but I've gotten to the point where I don't care about fill in art anymore. I'd rather have a fill in than to wait 9-10 months on a 6 part story.


Same here, sepecially when you can get artists that are similar in style. Or hell, make sure a big event is finished before scheduling it?

mstarnes
07-11-2009, 02:49 PM
Just read all of 1985 and it was great.
I'm reading Old Man Logan and the storytelling was too slow for me in the first three issues so I can't wait to see it wrap up. I like the book overall though.
I haven't read FF in quite some time.

Troy Wall
07-31-2009, 01:24 AM
Well, things got kinda...*ahem*...complicated in FF #569, this week's conclusion to the Master of Doom arc. MOD's (Marquis of Death) apprentice turned out to be...Dr. Doom???

Here's how it breaks down, but I'll be damned if I understand it. When MOD and the Apprentice dropped Doom into the mouths of prehistoric sharks, he somehow survived (unexplained), "fueled only by hatred". Doom spent many years "reconstituting his body molecule by molecule" and "studying the dark arts" over the course of the next million(s) years, seeing as how MOD and the Apprentice had dropped him so far in the prehistoric past.

Doom then took on the appearance of the Apprentice and tricked MOD into taking him on as his "new" student. This would mark the second time Doom studied under MOD...uh...somehow...with time paradoxes.

Doom spent millenia with MOD learning his ways, but failed to ever match MOD in power. So, Doom waited on MOD to confront the 616 FF, who Doom knew would fuck MOD up to the point he could actually be defeated. After MOD is in fact defeated, Doom as the Apprentice shows up, finishes him off and says a few words about how fucking awesome he is now that he's lived for millions of years and rolled so hard with MOD for so long.

What. The. Fuck.

Note how since the Apprentice is Doom, he dropped himself into the mouths of those sharks. He also assisted MOD in the annihilation of Latveria. And he apparently had sex with himself considering that in FF #567, the Apprentice revealed himself to be playing the part of Doom's wife, Sue Richards, in a fantasy designed by MOD to torture Doom. Which lasted for five years in Doom's tortured mind.

But I guess all that can be written off as Doom just doing what he had to do
in order to become the ultimate badass. He had to torture and feed himself to those sharks in order to begin his million year journey.

My head hurts.

:eek:

ronin7
07-31-2009, 01:02 PM
That is the biggest sack of shit I have ever read. Sometimes I think Millar doesn't even try to come up with a halfway decent plot. If his Ultimate Comics Avengers is just as bad. I'm glad I'm not reading it.

Eugene Selassie
07-31-2009, 04:48 PM
That is the biggest sack of shit I have ever read. Sometimes I think Millar doesn't even try to come up with a halfway decent plot. If his Ultimate Comics Avengers is just as bad. I'm glad I'm not reading it.

Wow...I thought I was critical of his work.

Troy Wall
07-31-2009, 07:20 PM
This is the first time I've been disappointed by him.

Biofungus
07-31-2009, 07:35 PM
That is the biggest sack of shit I have ever read. Sometimes I think Millar doesn't even try to come up with a halfway decent plot. If his Ultimate Comics Avengers is just as bad. I'm glad I'm not reading it.
Millar loves the shock value, and the whole "he's the apprentice who slept with himself" schtick just wreaks of Millar.