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View Full Version : The 'Sick of the Ultimate Universe' Thread


BJCochran
04-09-2009, 11:41 PM
I'm just sick of it. Yeah it started out as a nice 'little' idea but it seems to have lost that focus. And also its bull crap that people prefer this to the 616 universe!!!!!!!!

I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it.


(I will rant more later...I thought I had more time to rant...so will you guys take an IOU?)

onizuka43
04-10-2009, 12:10 AM
I don't think it has the same pull that it did 5 years ago. Like you said they lost their focus, Ultimate X-Men was a wonderful title but since Millar and Bendis left it the title had suffered and it had some amazing writers like Kirkman and most of all BKV working on it during that time. UFF has never really found it's voice and has really just drug on. Also Loeb on the Ultimates was just a wrong decision.

Spider-man has been the last one that I've really cared about, mainly because I feel it's the only title the Ultimate line has that is still superior to the 616 counterpart. I'm surprised the Ultimate line has lasted this long in it's current form and do hope they find that focus once again.

Ian Ascher
04-10-2009, 01:16 PM
I never got into the Ultimate Universe.

I was one of the people who said it wasn't going to last a year when the books first hit. I was wrong and in a big way but my reason was solid.

I knew eventualy, all these books are going to become so heavy with their own history, we'll just have the same problem all over again. They were never going to replace the traditional MU. Readers wont buy them because they can't easily get in on all the history. Sure we have the TPBs but Spiderman alone has something like 22 volumes all ready.

I tried a book here and there. I read Ultimates VOL 1 and 2. I tried Fantatic Four twice but never for more than an arc. Would pick up an Annual here or a special there because of the creative team. Enjoyed Ultimate Iron Man vs Hulk for the science and the tie-in to Ultimates. I've even gone back and bought a few of the Stuart Immomen issues of Ultimate Spiderman.

So here we are and Marvel is going to blow it all up and start again. It's the 10 year reset benchmark to try and grab new fans. Little Tommy was 10 when these books came out and read them. Now he's 20, in college, has a car payment and a girlfriend and hasn't bought the books in a few years. Time to grab a new 10 year old.

I'll buy the new Ultimates and that's probably it. What can I say.. I act like Im 10.

WilliamStormeSmith
04-10-2009, 04:03 PM
While I enjoy the ULTIMATE books, in fact have every issue, mainly because I'm a collector/fan/ writer.

The collector in me doesn't mind them because they have awesome resell value, and always sell out at shows.

The fan liked them a lot at the start, but the regular Marvel feels far more cutting edge than the Ultimate U. The stories are just lame sometimes, especially FF and Xmen.

The writer in me is unimpressed even by Bendis. Ulitmate ORIGINS was a let down, and even the wonderful shocks and surprises in ULTIMATUM don't work, because the characters don't havethe same worth, past, and appeal of their counterparts.

Warren Ellis and Millar and Bendis carried these books without a trifecta of brilliance to hold them up they have fallen far!

Paul Sanderson
04-10-2009, 06:34 PM
I never got into the Ultimate Universe.

I was one of the people who said it wasn't going to last a year when the books first hit. I was wrong and in a big way but my reason was solid.

I knew eventualy, all these books are going to become so heavy with their own history, we'll just have the same problem all over again. They were never going to replace the traditional MU. Readers wont buy them because they can't easily get in on all the history. Sure we have the TPBs but Spiderman alone has something like 22 volumes all ready.

I tried a book here and there. I read Ultimates VOL 1 and 2. I tried Fantatic Four twice but never for more than an arc. Would pick up an Annual here or a special there because of the creative team. Enjoyed Ultimate Iron Man vs Hulk for the science and the tie-in to Ultimates. I've even gone back and bought a few of the Stuart Immomen issues of Ultimate Spiderman.

So here we are and Marvel is going to blow it all up and start again. It's the 10 year reset benchmark to try and grab new fans. Little Tommy was 10 when these books came out and read them. Now he's 20, in college, has a car payment and a girlfriend and hasn't bought the books in a few years. Time to grab a new 10 year old.

I'll buy the new Ultimates and that's probably it. What can I say.. I act like Im 10.

Marvel just need to let this experiement die. Yes, for awhile it was interesting and different, but now it's run its course. Starting all over again from scratch would be just too stupid. Just get the best people possible on the regular books and the readers will come. Same goes for DC and their All-Star line.

jeffers
04-10-2009, 08:24 PM
I still believe USM needs to be on the shelves. Bendis' take has been almost definitive in its scope of a teenage superhero and all its trappings.

But for the UU to have any other usefulness, Millar needs to return to the Ultimates. I wouldn't even Lindelof (given what I've seen from Ult. Wolverine V. Hulk). But Millar needs to steer this baby. After all, he was part of the initial planning process.

yellowphantom
04-10-2009, 09:09 PM
i agree with most of what has been said so far....
..USM is the best book in the line and even it has had some pretty stinky storylines...
...UFF and UXmen just stank on ice from the word go (although the ultimates 1+2 were quite enjoyable)....
...if marvel is going to have this ultimate universe why not change things up...even a little?
..let's see ben grimm and sue storm married (instead of reed) ....maybe johnny is an alcoholic or a drug addict???? maybe reed is gay and tries to get it on with namor??? just try something different....why rehash the same old scenerios

onizuka43
04-11-2009, 12:07 AM
i agree with most of what has been said so far....
..USM is the best book in the line and even it has had some pretty stinky storylines...
...UFF and UXmen just stank on ice from the word go (although the ultimates 1+2 were quite enjoyable)....
...if marvel is going to have this ultimate universe why not change things up...even a little?
..let's see ben grimm and sue storm married (instead of reed) ....maybe johnny is an alcoholic or a drug addict???? maybe reed is gay and tries to get it on with namor??? just try something different....why rehash the same old scenerios

I got to agree with you there, the initial idea was to do different things that they couldn't do with the marvel universe but they really haven't done it outside of Spider-man and The Ultimates by Millar. UFF was at best on par with it's regular universe counterpart and Millar's run was the only redeming arc during it's entire run.

ponyrl
04-11-2009, 02:42 AM
Just had my first taste of the Ultimates, besides the Loeb/Mad debacle, with The incredible hulk ultimate where the gray hulk has sex at the end & the issues of U spider-man annual's 2 & 3, mainly because of the colorist on issue 3 and the artist M. Brooks on issue 2.

Given that I am a complete n00b to the other UM books, I can say this for the writing on the annuals, as an understanding of the writing that must be the usual style.

My take:

The writing was hard to flow with at times on issue 2, and i had to go back and read it a second time to get what was said (the flow was really lousy).

The third issue was nothing too impressive in the way that the ultimates, I guess, are supposed to be what 'modern' comics have become, reflecting what real world comics would read like.

You know what, I found that the stories were more worried about every thing else going on around the story, and not really about the main plot.

I'm finding that in a lot of mediums this happening...and I don't like it.

It makes the stories feel flat and pointless when the plot takes a backseat to the overall story.

You get less about the action of the plot, and more about the story. The battle with Mysterio was lessened by the issues between MJ and Peter.

"Hey, I just nearly got blow to pieces, but hey, I more concerned with why you're acting whack".

...the hell.

There's got to be a better way for modern comics to tell real-life type stories than this?

I've seen it done in the indy books, why is it so difficult to do in mainstream, when that is what they're trying to do?

...but don't mind me, I'm going back to reading Kamen Rider Spirits or Jackals,or hajime no ippo, or battle angel alita, Zetman, Bakuman, Baki; Son of Ogre, and stick with what gives me joy right now.

...until the next issue of the comic-lite version of the MU, written for kids.

...fuck, this is what I've been reduced to?

I remember when I'd never give up on US comics...

BJCochran
04-11-2009, 03:39 AM
Yeah for me this series did start out strong and fresh. Mainly it was great because it was our first mainstream Marvel taste of both Millar and Bendis.

I will come out and say I collected all of the Ultimate Spider-man's up until the New Warriors arc when I realized, for me, it lost its steam and appeal which was a shame.

The first two Ultimates were great. I hate saying that as a die hard Hulk fan figuring Millar always downplays the Hulk because 'he doesn't like the character'. But its just too enjoyable those first two arcs, delays and all.

With the first few issues of X-men we had surprise after surprise it seemed especially with Cylcops being a traitor.


But after the first 2 or 3 years it seemed all of the storylines, for each title, became just a retelling of a classic 616 story with not many twists and turns. For instance we know Gwen Stacy will eventually die based on the 616 verse...but if they wanted to spice things up keep her alive and kill MJ. It just felt like they were following the same pattern as 616.

The Ultimates were the exception to this because Millar wrote a fresh tale in what felt like the same vein as the 616 verse. But since then what have we had? Nothing special.

I won't lie I picked up the latest Ultimate Spider-man story arc because Spidey and the Hulk are by far my favorite characters ever to grace a comic page and whenenver they are in the same comic I will pick it up regardless. But even now it seems Ultimate Spider-man has suffered from 2 things -

1-Mark Bagley leaving. I really liked that connection between Bendis and Bagley. They were the best writer/artist combo in a long time.

2-Bendis has spread himself too thin. And it feels like this title has suffered due to his 48,976 other Marvel titles coming out monthly.

I know I relaly picked on USM most o nthis post. But its the title people have been calling the best out of the Ultimate comics. What this universe could use now is another 'rising creator' to come in and put the passion back into these comics.

Until then though I feel this comic pocket-verse will suffer.

L Jamal
04-11-2009, 11:45 AM
Ultimates is the only book that was really just a rehash of the 616. However, Spidey was better than the 616, so that's what I followed and still do.

The original point of the line was to reinvigorate the line for new readers. For those that are not interested in the 616 versions. When they were able the capture the essence of the 616 version, then it worked well (Spidey), but most failed to capture the 616 essense and was mostly about pure shock value (ultimates, x-men) or trying to catch the movie audience (daredevil, x-men).

The best thing they can do for this line is keep Spidey as the center and do everything else as spin-off mini-series with quality talent.

BJCochran
04-11-2009, 04:32 PM
Ultimates is the only book that was really just a rehash of the 616. However, Spidey was better than the 616, so that's what I followed and still do.

The original point of the line was to reinvigorate the line for new readers. For those that are not interested in the 616 versions. When they were able the capture the essence of the 616 version, then it worked well (Spidey), but most failed to capture the 616 essense and was mostly about pure shock value (ultimates, x-men) or trying to catch the movie audience (daredevil, x-men).

The best thing they can do for this line is keep Spidey as the center and do everything else as spin-off mini-series with quality talent.



See for me USM started as being better than 616. But it just feels Bendis is taking a lot from original 616 storylines rehasing it. At least to me.

Yeah I know Venom has a new origin same with Carnage, and the Green Goblin wow...not the same.

Just to met it feels slightly lik eit....Than again I'm loaded on Tylenol nasal medicine...so....

Paul Sanderson
04-11-2009, 07:09 PM
USM started out really good, I quite agree. I read it for the first 2-3 years or so, but then it started getting boring, little more than re-hashing of the regular book storylines. Like I said, as an initial experiment, it worked quite well, but then other series' came along and ruined the Ultimate universe, and USM is little more than a shadow of its former self as well. The experiment has run its course. Time for Marvel to put it out to pasture and concentrate on their regular books.

Buckyrig
04-11-2009, 07:27 PM
The experiment has run its course. Time for Marvel to put it out to pasture and concentrate on their regular books.

But it's the ultimate line. They have to close shop and end Marvel if they discontinue their ultimate line. :eek:

Paul Sanderson
04-11-2009, 07:31 PM
Umm...no.

Buckyrig
04-11-2009, 07:32 PM
Are you calling Joe Quesada a liar?

Paul Sanderson
04-12-2009, 10:16 PM
I call Joe Q. lots of things.

Moonrider
04-12-2009, 11:58 PM
...but don't mind me, I'm going back to reading Kamen Rider Spirits or Jackals,or hajime no ippo, or battle angel alita, Zetman, Bakuman, Baki; Son of Ogre, and stick with what gives me joy right now.

...until the next issue of the comic-lite version of the MU, written for kids.

...fuck, this is what I've been reduced to?

I remember when I'd never give up on US comics...

You mentioned Kamen Rider Spirits. It's interesting because it's also somewhat an 'Ultimatization' of an old TV franchise. It does however try to keep it faithful to the original material, only with a different point of view and added details. And I think it worked perfectly well. So with the Ultimate line, I'm probably the first one here to say that rehashing the old stuff is not at all the problem. It's the lack of different point of view and new takes to the classic stories.

The only reason Ultimates work fo me because it shows a very different yet very similar take on the Avengers as if it was an overbudgeted espionage/24-ish TV show. USM worked because it shows you in detail how becoming Spider-man is through the eyes of a regular teen living today, not a '60s geek stereotype who jumped from a normal nerd to superhero in just one issue. That kind of different take is what I think missing from the Ultimate line these days. I don't get the same excitement of reading Colossus being gay or Wolverine as Cable as anyone else. It's not the 'difference' I'm interested in reading, because after all who really cares? UXM is still the same as the regular X-Men only with darker outfits. UFF is still the same as regular FF only with Doom being a half goat hybrid. Ultimate Hulk is still stupid. And don't get me started on that abominable Ultimates 3.

Buckyrig
04-13-2009, 11:24 AM
I call Joe Q. lots of things.

How did he respond?

ponyrl
04-14-2009, 01:25 AM
You mentioned Kamen Rider Spirits. It's interesting because it's also somewhat an 'Ultimatization' of an old TV franchise. It does however try to keep it faithful to the original material, only with a different point of view and added details. And I think it worked perfectly well. So with the Ultimate line, I'm probably the first one here to say that rehashing the old stuff is not at all the problem. It's the lack of different point of view and new takes to the classic stories.

The only reason Ultimates work fo me because it shows a very different yet very similar take on the Avengers as if it was an overbudgeted espionage/24-ish TV show. USM worked because it shows you in detail how becoming Spider-man is through the eyes of a regular teen living today, not a '60s geek stereotype who jumped from a normal nerd to superhero in just one issue. That kind of different take is what I think missing from the Ultimate line these days. I don't get the same excitement of reading Colossus being gay or Wolverine as Cable as anyone else. It's not the 'difference' I'm interested in reading, because after all who really cares? UXM is still the same as the regular X-Men only with darker outfits. UFF is still the same as regular FF only with Doom being a half goat hybrid. Ultimate Hulk is still stupid. And don't get me started on that abominable Ultimates 3.
Wait....

When did Colossus turn gay?

:huh:

....

....

fuck it. I don't want to know. *sigh*

Paul Sanderson
04-14-2009, 02:19 AM
How did he respond?

He groaned after I kicked him in the balls (along with Tom Welling) :laugh:

Dreamer
04-15-2009, 08:36 PM
They're still printing the Ultamite U? i thought it was over when Hitch finished The ultimates vol 2. :har:

peace out

DemolitionSamurai
04-15-2009, 11:07 PM
Wait....

When did Colossus turn gay?

:huh:

....

....

fuck it. I don't want to know. *sigh*

Ultimate Colossus has been gay since forever, hasn't he?

ponyrl
04-15-2009, 11:26 PM
Ultimate Colossus has been gay since forever, hasn't he?
You ever wonder what would happen if they turned Wolverine homosexual?

Moonrider
04-16-2009, 12:12 AM
The dude wear yellow spandex for over thirty years, then switched to shirtless and leather jacket before back in yellow again. What makes you think he's not gay already?

ponyrl
04-16-2009, 12:20 AM
The dude wear yellow spandex for over thirty years, then switched to shirtless and leather jacket before back in yellow again. What makes you think he's not gay already?
Ah......good point.

And it wasn't Jean grey he wanted, it was SCOTT!

NOW IT MAKES SENSE!

:laugh:

DemolitionSamurai
04-16-2009, 01:27 AM
You ever wonder what would happen if they turned Wolverine homosexual?

A lot of jokers would be pissed off about something happening in an alternate storyline which has no impact at all on the main universe?

ponyrl
04-16-2009, 01:40 AM
A lot of jokers would be pissed off about something happening in an alternate storyline which has no impact at all on the main universe?
But, the Ulitmates IS the main universe.

What is this "main universe" you speak of?

Name these fictious books...IF YOU DARE! :man:

BJCochran
04-16-2009, 03:47 AM
The dude wear yellow spandex for over thirty years, then switched to shirtless and leather jacket before back in yellow again. What makes you think he's not gay already?


Best quote regarding Wolverine ever.

NickGuy
04-16-2009, 04:07 AM
Needs more ASBAR!!


....wait, what?