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Ian Ascher
03-27-2009, 03:41 PM
Rucka and Hamner on the Question as a back up in Detective Comics.

Check out the designs....
http://blog.newsarama.com/2009/03/27/the-cully-hamner-question/


:kewl:

Eugene Selassie
03-27-2009, 04:07 PM
You had me at Rucka.
You'll keep me for Hamner.
You won't get backtalk for The Question.

:D

Mark Bertolini
03-27-2009, 04:29 PM
This would be interesting to me if they hadn't killed off Vic Sage. As much as I liked Renee Montoya in Gotham Central, I just don't dig her as the Question.

Still, I might check this out for Hamner's art alone.

ronin7
03-27-2009, 05:26 PM
Art looks good, but I don't care for Rucka's writing.

Paul Sanderson
03-27-2009, 05:27 PM
I don't care for Rucka or Montoya as the Question.

Jamir with an E
03-27-2009, 05:43 PM
Looks nice. Guess Detective Comics goes back on the pull list.

Eugene Selassie
03-27-2009, 05:46 PM
Montoya as The Question would at least pull in potential new readers for a strong female lead who don't know her or the Question, OR pull in the readers from G.C.P.D.

Look at the last 2 years worth of sales for Booster Gold, Checkmate, Shadowpact and Birds of Prey before cancellation.

Now can you honestly say that a Vic Sage Question series would last in the current market?

Mark Bertolini
03-27-2009, 08:11 PM
Montoya as The Question would at least pull in potential new readers for a strong female lead who don't know her or the Question, OR pull in the readers from G.C.P.D.

Look at the last 2 years worth of sales for Booster Gold, Checkmate, Shadowpact and Birds of Prey before cancellation.

Now can you honestly say that a Vic Sage Question series would last in the current market?


I don't know, but it would definately interest me more, because I have the world's biggest man-crush on Vic Sage. Guess I'll just re-read the O'Neill/Cowan issues again.

Paul Sanderson
03-27-2009, 08:54 PM
Montoya as The Question would at least pull in potential new readers for a strong female lead who don't know her or the Question, OR pull in the readers from G.C.P.D.

Look at the last 2 years worth of sales for Booster Gold, Checkmate, Shadowpact and Birds of Prey before cancellation.

Now can you honestly say that a Vic Sage Question series would last in the current market?

Oh come off it, do you really think Montoya as the Question is going to pull in masses of readers? If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you. I don't see it doing any better than a Vic Sage Question series would with the same creators.

WilliamStormeSmith
03-27-2009, 09:12 PM
Oh come off it, do you really think Montoya as the Question is going to pull in masses of readers? If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you. I don't see it doing any better than a Vic Sage Question series would with the same creators.


I agree. Man I hate to even hear this is going to be a back up in Detective. Mainly beause it screws with a title i'm enjoying.

I'm sure Rucka and Hamner will do a good story. But Renee Montoya has become boring to me! I guess I'm a big time Vic Sage fan, thanks to Ditko and Rick Veitch's mini, and I liked Renee being the Question.

Really thought his death was the one of the best story lines in "52". But since they've kind of made a joke out of Renee, first w / the Batwoman thing that's kind of gone nowhere. Then Final Crisis Revelations by Rucka was boring, not badly written just boring. Maybe Greg's hoping to salvage the character's event/ continuity hang over w/ these back up stories.

kdmelrose
03-27-2009, 09:36 PM
I agree. Man I hate to even hear this is going to be a back up in Detective. Mainly beause it screws with a title i'm enjoying.

Detective is changing entirely. But that aside, why would a backup screw with the part you're enjoying? If you like the main story but dislike the backup ... don't read the backup.

WilliamStormeSmith
03-27-2009, 09:57 PM
Detective is changing entirely. But that aside, why would a backup "screw with" the part you're enjoying? If you like the main story but dislike the backup ... don't read the backup.


Don't read the back up, what kind of passive aggressive horseshit is that.

I read my comics and like Rucka. I liked Dini's run, and was expecting a different direction for the title after Batman being sent into the past. The thing is it changes the intent, characters, and format, if i was going to get more pages, Bruce, and Batman. Then backup could be a good thing. But to answer your question about why it screws with it is even more simple, I was enjoying the status quo/ the present product. Kind of like Action Comics where DC is changing another title I thought was working. Just my opinion as a consumer.

Mike225
03-27-2009, 10:00 PM
Don't read the back up, what kind of passive aggressive horseshit is that. :laugh:

Let's totally ignore that it makes sense to not read something you're not enjoying!

kdmelrose
03-27-2009, 10:04 PM
Don't read the back up, what kind of passive aggressive horseshit is that.

I don't see how that's passive-aggressive. It's pragmatic. I didn't like The Spectre story in that Tales of the Unexpected miniseries, but I enjoyed the hell out of the Doctor Thirteen backup. So, I bought it strictly for the backup, ignoring the main story.

But I take from the rest of your response that you're not keen on a Batwoman-headlining Detective, so I guess it wouldn't matter what the backup is.

WilliamStormeSmith
03-27-2009, 10:04 PM
:laugh:

Let's totally ignore that it makes sense to not read something you're not enjoying!


Guess YOU and I have a different philosophy. I read everything, unless I haven't had a chance to read it yet.

I also enjoyed Dr. 13 Cliff Chiang kicked ass on that, and Spectre is one of my favorite characters. So I liked both stories. The thing is Batwoman needs to be used, that was the point, they didnt use her coming out of the gate when i as a reader would have liked to seen her used. But now The Question makes more sense as a back up. However they will have a tough time topping Dini's run, guess thems the breaks of the business.

Mike225
03-27-2009, 10:10 PM
Guess YOU and I have a different philosophy. I read everything, unless I haven't had a chance to read it yet.But you do acknowledge that you can choose not to read something, right?

WilliamStormeSmith
03-27-2009, 10:14 PM
But you do acknowledge that you can choose not to read something, right?


Oh yea, its just not my style. To think about having a perfectly good story done by a hard working creative team in front of me I paid for and not give it a chance, just ain't me.

Moonrider
03-27-2009, 11:33 PM
I also enjoyed Dr. 13 Cliff Chiang kicked ass on that, and Spectre is one of my favorite characters. So I liked both stories. The thing is Batwoman needs to be used, that was the point, they didnt use her coming out of the gate when i as a reader would have liked to seen her used. But now The Question makes more sense as a back up. However they will have a tough time topping Dini's run, guess thems the breaks of the business.

I never really get why Batwoman was necessary. She didn't do much in 52, she got her ass kicked in Crime Bible, she's a Darkseid controlled zombie in Final Crisis, and she doesn't even have a likeable personality in any of her appearance.

Paul Sanderson
03-28-2009, 12:04 AM
Yeah, this new Batwoman seems a waste of time to me as well. I don't see Rucka improving her any in the future.

HaphazardJoy
03-28-2009, 09:08 AM
I really like Montoya, and I really like the Question, and so I was pleased with her taking over the role. They haven't done much to keep my expectations high though. So far, it might as well just be Montoya as Montoya. Where are the depth and more detective-oriented stories?

Likewise, I like most of the concept for the Batwoman, I like the look and all, but yeah, they haven't done much except for to shoe-horn her into the Book of Crime "prophecies".

kdmelrose
03-28-2009, 10:28 AM
I never really get why Batwoman was necessary.

You can pretty much say that about the entire Batman Family.

I'm looking forward to Batwoman's run in Detective, as much for the art of J.H. Williams as anything else.

Paul Sanderson
03-28-2009, 06:46 PM
You can pretty much say that about the entire Batman Family.

I wouldn't, but I would say that for Batwoman. A complete waste of space so far.

I'm looking forward to Batwoman's run in Detective, as much for the art of J.H. Williams as anything else.

Not even Williams' superb art can make me invest in Rucka on Batman again.

Mwynn
03-28-2009, 07:37 PM
I still think Batwoman will be Barbara by then.

HaphazardJoy
03-28-2009, 08:00 PM
Yeah, I had considered that too, what with Oracle: The Cure just starting, and in it her dwelling on her injury. I'd rather she stays Oracle and they take the time to actually develop Kate as a character beyond what they have.

Ian Ascher
03-28-2009, 08:10 PM
Wow... this thread's taken an odd turn.

Some pretty strong opinions over what everyone knows will be a short term experiment for Detective comics and possibly the characters as well.

I can respect the people who liked Vic Sage as the Question over Montoya. I mself never read the Question but Ive followed Montoya from her creation in the Batman Animated Series all the way to her battle with Vandal Savage in Final Crisis so her continuing tales intrigue me.

Both Batwoman and the Montoya Question are victims of DC's "false start syndrome". Batwoman was supposed to have a series right after 52. The Montoya Question was supposed to have a series after Countdown. Neither happened.

Putting Batwoman and the Question in one book, given the history they share, is a good idea. Letting Rucka guide them given his connection to the characters is a good idea.

Here's hoping this will give them the room they need to grow and establish themselves before Batman returns and takes Detective Comics back for himself.

Eugene Selassie
03-29-2009, 11:46 AM
You can pretty much say that about the entire Batman Family.


Truer words never spoken.

Lovecraft13
03-29-2009, 01:46 PM
Rucka, Montoya and a female Question are enough to keep me away from this title.

Eugene Selassie
03-29-2009, 02:33 PM
Wow.

The insults being lobbed at Rucka are really harsh and baffling.

The man has produced solid work on everything from Queen and Country to Whiteout, to Black Widow, to Wolverine, to G.C.P.D, to Batman, to Checkmate, to 52 and ESPECIALLY his work with the Question.

Is this some sort of beneath the surface jab at what characters like Renee Montoya and Kate Kane represent?

Eugene Selassie
03-29-2009, 02:37 PM
And might I add Rucka to the list of creators that I've been on these boards defending day and night for the last three months...

Dan Slott

JMS

Khoi Pham

Greg Ruck_

Deadfish07
03-29-2009, 04:37 PM
I still think Batwoman will be Barbara by then.

They dangle that carrot infront of readers a few times now. I doubt Barbara will do the walk anytime soon. And if she ever does, I think she'll just take Oracle into the field.

Saul Haber
03-29-2009, 06:29 PM
I really enjoyed Gotham Central and I like Montoya, but she doesn't seem like the type of person to go for all this superhero stuff. She seems too pragmatic. I think she should have stayed a cop or a private eye maybe. I'm not into her as the question and Hamner's designs don't click for me, either. She looks like a faceless model in a womenswear catalogue. She doesn't seem very imposing at all. The original Question's design worked because he had that whole 30's private eye/gangster cool with the fedora and suit and trenchcoat. Add the faceless gimmick and you have a slick pulp hero. Without the suit and hat, or putting those clothes on a woman, you just lose the whole cool factor in my opinion.

Paul Sanderson
03-29-2009, 06:48 PM
Agreed, Saul.

ronin7
03-29-2009, 08:32 PM
Speaking for myself, I have nothing against Renee Montoya, but I don't like her as the Question. She was better served as a unlikely ally of the Batman, and one of the few cops Commissioner Gordon trusted.

That, and I don't care for Rucka's writing. Having seen what he did in Wolverine only gives me nightmares that he'll pull a Winick, or something far worse.

Mwynn
03-29-2009, 09:37 PM
Is this some sort of beneath the surface jab at what characters like Renee Montoya and Kate Kane represent?
I would say yes and add in the old fear of change.
Yet since most are not reading the book, why would they care what happens in it.

Moonrider
03-29-2009, 09:39 PM
You can pretty much say that about the entire Batman Family.

Nope. All of them have long history with Batman, and I consider them as good supporting characters. Well except for Damian, he's just an asshole kid. Batwoman just came out of nowhere, with very weak connection to the real Batman.

Mwynn
03-29-2009, 09:43 PM
Nope. All of them have long history with Batman, and I consider them as good supporting characters. Well except for Damian, he's just an asshole kid. Batwoman just came out of nowhere, with very weak connection to the real Batman.
Even Cassandra Wayne, Jason Bard, Ragman, and Simon Dark?

kdmelrose
03-29-2009, 10:46 PM
Nope. All of them have long history with Batman, and I consider them as good supporting characters. Well except for Damian, he's just an asshole kid. Batwoman just came out of nowhere, with very weak connection to the real Batman.

At one point Batgirl was just the daughter of the police commissioner who dressed in a costume for a masquerade party. And Jason Todd just a kid who tried steal the tires from the Batmobile. And Tim Drake just a fan of Batman and Robin who somehow deduced their secret identities. And so on ...

Moonrider
03-30-2009, 02:08 AM
At one point Batgirl was just the daughter of the police commissioner who dressed in a costume for a masquerade party. And Jason Todd just a kid who tried steal the tires from the Batmobile. And Tim Drake just a fan of Batman and Robin who somehow deduced their secret identities. And so on ...

And that's part of their character's history with Batman. We at least see them turning into their respective costumed identity, with Batman actively involved with their lives. Even Cassandra Cain the new Batgirl, who was a totally new character, needed to gain Batman's approval beforehand.

Even Cassandra Wayne, Jason Bard, Ragman, and Simon Dark?

Besides Cassandra, none of them fit the bill as a member of the Batman Family.

Mwynn
03-30-2009, 10:58 AM
And that's part of their character's history with Batman. We at least see them turning into their respective costumed identity, with Batman actively involved with their lives. Even Cassandra Cain the new Batgirl, who was a totally new character, needed to gain Batman's approval beforehand.



Besides Cassandra, none of them fit the bill as a member of the Batman Family.
So if it was written that Batman gave those character his approval they would be in the family?

kdmelrose
03-30-2009, 11:08 AM
And that's part of their character's history with Batman. We at least see them turning into their respective costumed identity, with Batman actively involved with their lives. Even Cassandra Cain the new Batgirl, who was a totally new character, needed to gain Batman's approval beforehand.

I don't follow. Barbara Gordon played at Batgirl before receiving Batman's approval. Tim Drake initially donned the Robin uniform without Batman's okay.

Besides, the Batwoman concept predates even Batgirl. The original, 1950s version had no direct connection to Batman, and even set herself up as a rival of sorts. This new version further gives nods to the Silver Age heroine with her real name and her life as a wealthy heiress.

Moonrider
03-31-2009, 12:36 AM
So if it was written that Batman gave those character his approval they would be in the family?

I don't know. Who coined the word Bat-Family in the first place? Wasn't me, I'm sure.

Besides, my point was not with Batman's approval, but the fact that they actually interacted with him in one way or the other as their characters were gradually developed. The Batwoman concept is not new, but the introduction of this incarnation of the character seemed rushed and totally out of nowhere. Pretend that I don't know comics existed before the '80s. That made me care less about the character, let alone her own book.

Paul Sanderson
03-31-2009, 05:34 PM
Well said, Moonie.